Caylee Marie Anthony-MURDER TRIAL - DAY 10 - 6/4/11

[Puzzler]

When this first started, I wondered if Caylee could have drowned & Casey acted the way she did due to post trauma. Then I thought about it deeper after tge duct tape was found on her skull. If Caylee drowned, that duct tape would have had to be wrapped completely around her head in order for the tape to stick, it would have had to overlap bc it wouldn't stick to wet hair. Then I thought well maybe her body dried out first before it was applied but that didn't make sense bc rigor would set in and a partial time of stiffness. After 24-48 hours it would have become more pliable but the tape wouldn't have been able to stick due to the natural larvae & acids erroding the cadaver. Therefore, I deduce, the tape had to be applied before she died or else she couldn't have drowned & maybe the tape was applied right after death to prevent insect activity...which is stupid bc it would happen anyway. Now there is no way I believe Caylee drowned...not unless she had duct tape placed over her mouth & then drowned. Remember the tape didn't go all the way around her head but it had to be on tight enough to stick & leave a tooth impression. Hmmm...something to think about.

I do not remember reading/hearing anything about a tooth impression, but I may have missed that, it has been a very long 3 years.

I remember when reading that about a tooth depression, it made me sick because that meant she tried to chew her way out of the duct tape.

Do we know if the "tood depression" was made on the "inside" of the duct tape near the mouth area?  Or...was it made on the end of the tape, indicating that KC tore the tape with her teeth?

[Puzzler]

what if kronk really did hear where the body was from his girlfriend who worked at the jail what if she overheard on purpose a private conversation casey had with bozo, could that blow the whole case?

"IF" that were true it might be an appeal factor, but if I am not mistaken the "story" that was told about that turned out to not be true at all. The "girlfriend" that was implicated IIRC did not even have access to the jail and was not really a "girlfriend."

I personally believe the man just had strong suspicions about where KC would have dumped her and followed up time after time because he wanted that baby to be found. I have a number of friends who live in Orlando area who spent countless hours searching for her body on their days off and in terrible conditions anytime they had who had no motive but to find her. It was not just him who was trying to connect the dots, but many people.

Most all the stories Padilla has told about all that are totally erroneous and I am not sure he should not be sued for telling much of it because I believe that is part of where bozo got his "tale tale" for court from.

"IF" where Caylee's body was placed was overheard in jail, if that conversation included Baez, isn't there a law that says an attorney has to disclose where such evidence (body) is?  Wouldn't he be in very deep trouble over this?

[Puzzler]

Janet I thought is was Arm & Hammer laundry detergent  that they had in the back of their car?

You could be right.  I will do a little googling (sounds obscene).  I thought I had compiled backup for all points in my theory but ... not the baking soda/baking powerder that I recollected was found in the trunk of Casey's vehicle.

While growing up ... I remember that an open box of baking soda to absorb odor was a constant in our fridge.  However ... it is something I have never done in my own home.

Janet

Blonde - TY

[snoopy]

As I was going through the archives last night and other sites I found some of this information:


I believe there was an argument between Casey and Cindy on the evening of June 15 not because the neighbor says so, but because Rick (Cindy's brother) said that he was told that.  I don't remember if Cindy told him or if their mom told him.  I don't understand why the prosecution didn't take this up.  It seems as though they would have offered immunity to George and Cindy to change their statements.  Perhaps is doesn't matter to the prosecution.  I would think it would matter as it would go to Casey's state of mind.  I think Cayse knew that Cindy was fed up and was going to take Caylee away from her and Cayse per her own words that she was "A spiteful bitch" and the fact that she was head over heels for Tony decided to kill Caylee. 

According to phone logs / locations Casey was home on the night of June 15 early morning of June 16th.  Phone call from her to Tony at 1:05 am on her cell phone from the Antony home.  80 minutes long.

Casey did leave the Anthony home around 1pm. on the 16th. She was back home around 2:52 pm. 

Casey was seen at Wal-mart around 4:00pm on the 16th, but phone records / pings do not show this information. It is reported that Caylee seemed mad and walking approx. 10 feet behind Cayse when they left Wal-mart.

JMHO I believe Caylee died between the hours of 4:25 pm and 6:31 pm on the 16th.  I think Cayse went into a fit of rage and chloroformed Caylee and then put duct tape over her nose and mouth so that she would not wake up.  I pray she chloroformed her first.  I believe Cayse put Caylee either in the turtle sandbox or the playhouse. She then went on to Tony's and they went to Blockbuster.  Interesting that they rented 2 movies Untraceable and Jumper.

On the 17th Cayse was at the Anthony home at 2:30pm.  I think it is then that she set the pool ladder up and unlocked the side gate.  This makes me think that she was going to attempt a child abduction as if someone came into the yard and took Caylee.  Don't know. I don't think for one minute that Cindy left the pool ladder up or the gate unlocked.  I have also thought that Cayse could have put duct tape on Caylees mouth and threw her into the pool till she was dead.  God I hope that isn't what she did. She is so evil that I wouldn't put it past her.  I know the scientist say that the duct tape was placed on her mouth/nose after death and before decomp.  I don't know how they can tell that and I guess we'll find out in the coming days of testimony.

On the 18th per the neighbor Cayse came home backed the car into the garage and borrowed the shovel for one hour.  I think this is when she got Caylee and took her to the dump site where Caylee was found. 

The dogs weren't allowed in the back yard per Cindy because that is where Caylee played.  Don't know if that is true or not.  Cindy sure was full of lies at that time.  I'm not going to judge her though.

I think on the 18th when Cayce borrowed the neighbors shovel she was going to bury Caylee, but it was too much work. (Can't see her trying too hard) and the neighbor said when Cayse returned the shovel an hour later that she didn't seem dirty or like she had been working.  Something like that.

Cayse told Amy on the 25th that the car smelled awful and that George must have run over a squirrel when he borrowed the car.  George was already being set up by Casey.

As I was reading back I sure did throw George, Lee and Cindy under the bus.  And I believe it was LP that put into our minds that Casey had been molested by George and/or Lee.  That was the whole premise for me despising them.  Casey was again setting up George or Lee. I think early on George and Cindy in their heart of heart knew Cayse did something to Caylee but just couldn't go to that horrible dark place.  I don't understand their crazy behavior, but I think now that they have come to terms with things they are doing the right thing.  I imagine they have had to walk on egg shells with Cayse most of her life.  I truly believe she is a narcissistic psychopath.

I also think that Bozo was setting up this defense early on.  That George was involved and that Caylee drowned.  Too bad he isn't a good attorney he just might have gotten her off.  Any good attorney would have taken a plea and plead that Caylee accidentally drowned and temporary insanity for Cayse's behavior afterward.  She sure wouldn't have LWOP or death facing her.



     

[ShariVari]

When do you guys think Baez found out Casey was really dead?

oops wishful thinking - meant CAYLEE when did he find out Caylee was dead?

As soon as KC opened her lying mouth.  No one would believe that she'd been hoebagging for 31 days as a means of searching for a missing child.

I agree but I guess I should have said "When do you think she finally TOLD him" whatever she did accident/murder?

From my understanding, I thought that if the client is guilty, his or her lawyer doesn't usually want to be told.  One, I think lawyers can get disbarred for knowingly lying, and two, I think it becomes a lot harder to defend the client while thinking on one's feet if you know the client is guilty.  Jose may KNOW in his heart she is guilty, but why the heck would she tell him at all?  I mean, I don't think she's told anybody.  I think Jose would have a bigger chance of letting the truth slip if Casey had told him for sure that she had killed Caylee and how she'd done it.  Mostly MOO. 

[pharlap]

http://www.wftv.com/video/18206395/index.html

Mark 25:00 George talks about trading places with KC.  I'm not seeing her say 'why dont you' like other posters have seen.  Is there another point in the video where this happens?

Ditto.....

[Jesse]

what if kronk really did hear where the body was from his girlfriend who worked at the jail what if she overheard on purpose a private conversation casey had with bozo, could that blow the whole case?

Possibly, but if Bozo had a conversation that was meant to be overheard, he's just as guilty. Number one, if he knew where the body was, it was his duty as an officer of the court to give that information--privilege be damned!
Padilla tried to imply that Kronk got it from a girlfriend who got it from LE, but if LE knew, why wouldn't they look for it themselves? Why wait for all the evidence to disappear and skeletonize?
I've always had a hinky feeling about Sylvia Hernandez, that she was a shill for Bozo despite his vehement protestations to the contrary. It's possible she may have been used for more than just passing notes where KC could get her God conversations and molestations issues into evidence. She may have been a part of Padilla's "daisy chain" instead of LE.

But on the other hand, all of the above seem just so convoluted. Most likely it is what it is, Kronk found the body in August and snooped around again in December when he got the chance and found it again. Try as he might, I don't think Bozo can prove anything different.

i hope you are right

[pharlap]

Hey titch, i agree with you, if she had had enough time she was going to off her parents and with Caylee gone she was home free! i seriously believe that! She's a psychopath and all she wanted was for her life to be perfect in her sick mind. She would have killed them both & not thought twice about it! The consequences are never even in her mind unless confronted with them, she has no conscience and it's hard for normal people to comprehend that thought process but believe me there are lots of these sick ass freaks out there! My brothers ex is one of them, she's Casey's twin & I know she would off someone in a NY minute if they got in her way, no doubt!!!   

ITA..She was planning on killing her parents first..I think..and then her anger got the better of her and she killed Caylee out of rage and spite.

I thin the judge also thinks there was a possiblity she would ahve gone on to kill her parents..hence his remark the other day when they were reading taxtsbetween Casey and Tony..in court..but withut jury present.  JP said something like ..so the conclusion of these is you want me to believe she was also  planning on killing her parents?  He didn't just pull that out of thin air.

Agree.  I think KC was planning to kill G&C.  She was with Ricardo in March.  He had chloroform on his computer.  KC searched in March for chloroform, neck-breaking and household weapons....that was also around the tim she was talking about getting the house.  There's no possible way to get that house without mom and dad being gone.  Also, there was no possible way for her to continue to pay the house mortgage if mom and dad were gone - she had no money.

She doesn't think ahead.  IMO, she would have never had to worry about paying the mortgage because she would not have been successful in getting away with killing either parent, just like she's not getting away with killing KC.

Count me in!!! I believe she was planning on offing George and Cindy as well. The day the judge made the comment about her killing her parents, I was yelling at my puter.....

Same here....

[Samarie]

Janet I thought is was Arm & Hammer laundry detergent  that they had in the back of their car?

You could be right.  I will do a little googling (sounds obscene).  I thought I had compiled backup for all points in my theory but ... not the baking soda/baking powerder that I recollected was found in the trunk of Casey's vehicle.

While growing up ... I remember that an open box of baking soda to absorb odor was a constant in our fridge.  However ... it is something I have never done in my own home.

Janet

Blonde - TY

Interesting...looks like an off brand of carpet stain remover under the Arm & Hammer detergent bottle. The "cleaner" can appears to have one of those built in scrubby thingies on the cap. All the times I've viewed evidence photos and I never picked up on it before. I think Casey may have tried to clean up the car before Cindy did, she should have done a computer search, such as "how to get a death smell out of a car."

[4 Donks]

Thanks for posting this, Blonde. Do you monkeys think we will hear testimony from Cindy about whether she recognizes the laundry bag? What about forensics on the trash bags? Did they find matching trash bags in Cindys house or Tonys?

One last post and I'm outta here for the day. Several pages back a kind monkey posted Dr. G's summary report.  She stated tape affixed to the maxible (the upper bone of the jaw set, running from ear to ear, holds the top set of teeth).  On this adult, that definitely covers the nose.  We've already established from the stages of decomp that the skin tightens, bloats, and then breaks down...yet the duct tape remained wound tightly enough to essentially cement the mandible in place, as well as capture the hair mass throughout insect and animal activity, bone dispersal, and flooding.  Cause of death?  Not a problem. BBL

This?
Page 1 of the autopsy report



Page 2 of the autopsy report

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801867/detail.html

Report of osteological analysis

[shy-monkey]

Garbage, trash.   Why is that so amusing to Baez and Casey?  It's insignificant.

It's probably their pet names for each other.

[beth1970]

Does anyone remember ? either by text or phone call? casey telling tony that taking care of caylee is like working a 8 hr shift. something to that effect?

I remember this
Casey Anthony wrote to Tony Rusciano (the cop that was fired for lying about knowing Casey)
 mission accomplished.

?? instant message from Casey O Marie to NYItaliano3
 “Seriously, spending the day with Caylee is ten times more exhausing than working a twelve hour event.”

 ?? instant message from Casey O Marie to NYItaliano3
 “She’s coming back from Tampa. Her sister is getting married this weekeend.”

 ?? instant message from Casey O Marie to NYItaliano3
 “Yeah, I just called her. She’s on I-4. Good, so tha’s a plus. That it is.”

 ?? instant message from NYItaliano3 to Casey O Marie
 “So is she willing to get the offspring?”

 ?? instant message from NYItaliano3 to Casey O Marie
 “Let’s, hey let’s (unintelligible) right now when it is as good as it has been. I need it, I uh, I told you I need a routine. But it’s not my main concern for seeing you,”

 ?? instant message from NYItaliano3 to Casey O Marie
 “Once in three weeks is a tease.”

 ?? instant message from NYItaliano3 to Casey O Marie
 “Come over and I’ll cook.”

 ?? instant message from Casey O Marie to NYItaliano3
“How? You want me to bring the little snot head?”

 

I hope this eventually comes into court.

The comment........“Seriously, spending the day with Caylee is ten times more exhausing than working a twelve hour event.”


alright, gotta admit - I'm 41 and a stay at home mom to my 2 year old and I say it is a fulltime job and like working 20 hour days BUT I don't text & don't even get on the computer unless she's "NATURALLY" napping or sleeping.  Unlike ICA my daughter is my #1 priority and I play with her all day long.

[ShariVari]

Janet I thought is was Arm & Hammer laundry detergent  that they had in the back of their car?

You could be right.  I will do a little googling (sounds obscene).  I thought I had compiled backup for all points in my theory but ... not the baking soda/baking powerder that I recollected was found in the trunk of Casey's vehicle.

While growing up ... I remember that an open box of baking soda to absorb odor was a constant in our fridge.  However ... it is something I have never done in my own home.

Janet

Blonde - TY

Interesting...looks like an off brand of carpet stain remover under the Arm & Hammer detergent bottle. The "cleaner" can appears to have one of those built in scrubby thingies on the cap. All the times I've viewed evidence photos and I never picked up on it before. I think Casey may have tried to clean up the car before Cindy did, she should have done a computer search, such as "how to get a death smell out of a car."

that kiwi bottle under the Arm & Hammer detergent bottle is a sneaker or shoe cleaner, i think.  Kiwi makes shoe polishes and I think I've owned that same bottle of sneaker cleaner before.  Maybe how KC got the mud off her shoes when she tossed Caylee in the woods?

[beth1970]

Hey titch, i agree with you, if she had had enough time she was going to off her parents and with Caylee gone she was home free! i seriously believe that! She's a psychopath and all she wanted was for her life to be perfect in her sick mind. She would have killed them both & not thought twice about it! The consequences are never even in her mind unless confronted with them, she has no conscience and it's hard for normal people to comprehend that thought process but believe me there are lots of these sick ass freaks out there! My brothers ex is one of them, she's Casey's twin & I know she would off someone in a NY minute if they got in her way, no doubt!!!   

ITA..She was planning on killing her parents first..I think..and then her anger got the better of her and she killed Caylee out of rage and spite.

I thin the judge also thinks there was a possiblity she would ahve gone on to kill her parents..hence his remark the other day when they were reading taxtsbetween Casey and Tony..in court..but withut jury present.  JP said something like ..so the conclusion of these is you want me to believe she was also  planning on killing her parents?  He didn't just pull that out of thin air.

Agree.  I think KC was planning to kill G&C.  She was with Ricardo in March.  He had chloroform on his computer.  KC searched in March for chloroform, neck-breaking and household weapons....that was also around the tim she was talking about getting the house.  There's no possible way to get that house without mom and dad being gone.  Also, there was no possible way for her to continue to pay the house mortgage if mom and dad were gone - she had no money.

She doesn't think ahead.  IMO, she would have never had to worry about paying the mortgage because she would not have been successful in getting away with killing either parent, just like she's not getting away with killing KC.

Count me in!!! I believe she was planning on offing George and Cindy as well. The day the judge made the comment about her killing her parents, I was yelling at my puter.....

Same here....

Just curious how do you think she would have killed them?  (I agree by the way - she was planning to)

[beth1970]

Garbage, trash.   Why is that so amusing to Baez and Casey?  It's insignificant.

It's probably their pet names for each other.

thank you for making me spit the last of my snack bar out!  (it was good too!)  TOOOO funny!

[beth1970]

As I was going through the archives last night and other sites I found some of this information:


I believe there was an argument between Casey and Cindy on the evening of June 15 not because the neighbor says so, but because Rick (Cindy's brother) said that he was told that.  I don't remember if Cindy told him or if their mom told him.  I don't understand why the prosecution didn't take this up.  It seems as though they would have offered immunity to George and Cindy to change their statements.  Perhaps is doesn't matter to the prosecution.  I would think it would matter as it would go to Casey's state of mind.  I think Cayse knew that Cindy was fed up and was going to take Caylee away from her and Cayse per her own words that she was "A spiteful bitch" and the fact that she was head over heels for Tony decided to kill Caylee. 

According to phone logs / locations Casey was home on the night of June 15 early morning of June 16th.  Phone call from her to Tony at 1:05 am on her cell phone from the Antony home.  80 minutes long.

Casey did leave the Anthony home around 1pm. on the 16th. She was back home around 2:52 pm. 

Casey was seen at Wal-mart around 4:00pm on the 16th, but phone records / pings do not show this information. It is reported that Caylee seemed mad and walking approx. 10 feet behind Cayse when they left Wal-mart.

JMHO I believe Caylee died between the hours of 4:25 pm and 6:31 pm on the 16th.  I think Cayse went into a fit of rage and chloroformed Caylee and then put duct tape over her nose and mouth so that she would not wake up.  I pray she chloroformed her first.  I believe Cayse put Caylee either in the turtle sandbox or the playhouse. She then went on to Tony's and they went to Blockbuster.  Interesting that they rented 2 movies Untraceable and Jumper.

On the 17th Cayse was at the Anthony home at 2:30pm.  I think it is then that she set the pool ladder up and unlocked the side gate.  This makes me think that she was going to attempt a child abduction as if someone came into the yard and took Caylee.  Don't know. I don't think for one minute that Cindy left the pool ladder up or the gate unlocked.  I have also thought that Cayse could have put duct tape on Caylees mouth and threw her into the pool till she was dead.  God I hope that isn't what she did. She is so evil that I wouldn't put it past her.  I know the scientist say that the duct tape was placed on her mouth/nose after death and before decomp.  I don't know how they can tell that and I guess we'll find out in the coming days of testimony.

On the 18th per the neighbor Cayse came home backed the car into the garage and borrowed the shovel for one hour.  I think this is when she got Caylee and took her to the dump site where Caylee was found. 

The dogs weren't allowed in the back yard per Cindy because that is where Caylee played.  Don't know if that is true or not.  Cindy sure was full of lies at that time.  I'm not going to judge her though.

I think on the 18th when Cayce borrowed the neighbors shovel she was going to bury Caylee, but it was too much work. (Can't see her trying too hard) and the neighbor said when Cayse returned the shovel an hour later that she didn't seem dirty or like she had been working.  Something like that.

Cayse told Amy on the 25th that the car smelled awful and that George must have run over a squirrel when he borrowed the car.  George was already being set up by Casey.

As I was reading back I sure did throw George, Lee and Cindy under the bus.  And I believe it was LP that put into our minds that Casey had been molested by George and/or Lee.  That was the whole premise for me despising them.  Casey was again setting up George or Lee. I think early on George and Cindy in their heart of heart knew Cayse did something to Caylee but just couldn't go to that horrible dark place.  I don't understand their crazy behavior, but I think now that they have come to terms with things they are doing the right thing.  I imagine they have had to walk on egg shells with Cayse most of her life.  I truly believe she is a narcissistic psychopath.

I also think that Bozo was setting up this defense early on.  That George was involved and that Caylee drowned.  Too bad he isn't a good attorney he just might have gotten her off.  Any good attorney would have taken a plea and plead that Caylee accidentally drowned and temporary insanity for Cayse's behavior afterward.  She sure wouldn't have LWOP or death facing her.



     

Do you think the reason the State didn't bring up the "argument" & offer immunity is that they don't want the Ants to come across as liars?  Wouldn't Baez bring up the fact that they lied previously?

[snoopy]

Janet I thought is was Arm & Hammer laundry detergent  that they had in the back of their car?

I've always loved being here, but is there something about my posts that cause people to ignore me, that I don't realize???

Nooooooooooo akmom.  It's called multitasking.  lol  Sometimes people don't have the answer or are so far behind like me most of the time.  Take no offense.  Everyone is important here.

[carpe noctem]

http://www.wftv.com/video/18206395/index.html

Mark 25:00 George talks about trading places with KC.  I'm not seeing her say 'why dont you' like other posters have seen.  Is there another point in the video where this happens?

Ditto.....

I didn't see it, either. Just more George - the rambling tool. phew... my gosh, he is BORING. I'd rather put in a full day of work at a library, renumbering their Dewey Decimal System.

[Cappuccino]

http://www.wftv.com/video/18206395/index.html

Watch from the 8:00 mark.  George talks about 'the thing I done' and how it was all already determined by the time they got to the judge's chambers.  Is this when he allegedly threw his father through the window?  I'll bet Jose is waiting to introduce this as a part of his defense/blame George story.

I believe that may have been his stupidity with the Nigerian scam & loss of money.   PS all she is doing is manipulating him to get her out of jail.

[cubbeegirl]

Hi Snoops! I have been wondering myself why the arguement hasn't been brought up.Rick was pretty informative. Too bad he quit posting!I wonder if the arguement hasn't been brought up due to the fact that Shirley would then have to come in to testify about the stolen money???