Natalee Case Discussion #710 1/03 - 1/09/2007

[MumInOhio]

Maybe I should have got some new glasses for Christmas......


Somehow I miss things when I'm posting....much more focused when I'm just reading....Mum always said you can't do two things at once and do them well!



Magnolia...I seem to remember that being discussed ages ago. I did see what you said was a steeple! Concluded it was a chimney, but after further thought I don't think they need those in Aruba!

[friend of monkeys]

Good Morning!.....that cartoon gives me the creeps every time I see it!

Anyone else think that one cloud looks like a surviellance plane?

I have always seen a LOT of things in that cartoon. Yes, that "cloud" looks sorta like an "AWACS" plane. The weirdest thing is the date of the cartoon (6-5-05) -- there are SO many relevant things in it that no one knew about at such a early date in this case!

Does anyone see anything peculiar under the hatch marks on the upper left hand corner?

There is a sketch of a man standing behind someone bent over.....very similar to the clips from the porn video in Deepak car....but I don't see a mask....

Looks lilke a toilet w/ someone bent over it to me......

[Nut44x4]

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/3363/8/

Looks like another traffic fatality.

[Kat_Gram]

I was just curious what people managed to ferret via the web about the alleged disposal. I find it fascinating how resourceful and imaginative people can be.  I suppose it beats playing windows solitare, or watching night time drama on TBS. Hopefully, when this is over we'll see who was right on the mark and who missed it completely.  Personally, I've always been a fan of Occam's Razor, but I won't comment on whether or not I feel it applies in this case.

I am a fan of simple.
I do not believe most of Dompig's theories that he passed off as fact.
Something about the timeline of the Monday evening does not add up. We don't know where Koen or Sander Gottenbos were ( they have the boat),  and there are time fragments missing where we only have Joran's word for where he was. He was in the Racquet Club and then the casinos, but there are chunks of time where he left to go home with Guido Wever and then later when Beth and Jug arrived, there was a misunderstanding as to his whereabouts.
He was moving from one casino to another, disinterested ppl to this case saw him at
several locations, but the time is not all accounted for.
We also don't know where Steve Croes was the Monday night, working on the Tattoo 
I suppose, but when did he start work and when did his shift end. He inserted himself into this case with an alibi for someone he hardly knew and that doesn't sit well with me.
I don't care who was right or who missed it. Find her and it doesn't matter .

[Lala'sMom]

I was just curious what people managed to ferret via the web about the alleged disposal. I find it fascinating how resourceful and imaginative people can be.  I suppose it beats playing windows solitare, or watching night time drama on TBS. Hopefully, when this is over we'll see who was right on the mark and who missed it completely.  Personally, I've always been a fan of Occam's Razor, but I won't comment on whether or not I feel it applies in this case.

I am a fan of simple.
I do not believe most of Dompig's theories that he passed off as fact.
Something about the timeline of the Monday evening does not add up. We don't know where Koen or Sander Gottenbos were ( they have the boat),  and there are time fragments missing where we only have Joran's word for where he was. He was in the Racquet Club and then the casinos, but there are chunks of time where he left to go home with Guido Wever and then later when Beth and Jug arrived, there was a misunderstanding as to his whereabouts.
He was moving from one casino to another, disinterested ppl to this case saw him at
several locations, but the time is not all accounted for.
We also don't know where Steve Croes was the Monday night, working on the Tattoo 
I suppose, but when did he start work and when did his shift end. He inserted himself into this case with an alibi for someone he hardly knew and that doesn't sit well with me.
I don't care who was right or who missed it. Find her and it doesn't matter .

I think Steve Croes was paid to help with the body...Paulus paid him to dispose of the body and then he paid him again to provide the HI alibi.  Only thing, Croes wasn't watching the television and didn't know the alibi  had been debunked and he fell into a trap that got him jail time and a warning to keep his mouth shut.  Steve Croes was in too deep in other things and this made him vulnerable to being blackmailed and a host of other things.  The only reason he is still alive now is because he has been silent.  That was evident when Greta caught up with him heading to the airport that day.  He made no sense whatsoever yet, he has been allowed to continue his life, as have many others, as before. I suspect his tongue was bloody right along with Joran's.

Kalpoes have kept their mouths shut....they are free.  Freddy kept his mouth shut...he's free and they arrested him on porn charges or something to that effect.  Mos knew he could not get anyone to rat out the other one even before he took this case....it's a code of silence that has that island in it's grip and until it's broken nothing will get any better.  Too much money is involved.  It's true...Money talks....and well you know the rest.

[Kat_Gram]

I tend to agree with you about Steve Croes. His access to boats .. ie the boat that takes the partygoers to the Tattoo and the route that the smaller boat takes. It would not look like anything suspicious to see Steve in a boat coming and going to and from the Tattoo. I think the people who would know anything are close to the Sloots or they have their own involvement in something else.
.
If there was a disposal at sea, it would have been done within the first 30 hours or so. There was no premeditation to cause her death, but the past history of the activity against tourist girls is the predictor.
 

[bleachedblack]

Actually, it would be great if the Monkeys et al., could come up with a verifiable timeline for the alleged disposal.  ie: -How long were they gone, how is this known (w/sources) min/max.  Then we can do a little comparison.  That might be a good excercise if interested.

Not  specific to disposal but a good timeline, not sure if you have seen this:

http://tinyurl.com/2a8ors

[bleachedblack]

Actually, it would be great if the Monkeys et al., could come up with a verifiable timeline for the alleged disposal.  ie: -How long were they gone, how is this known (w/sources) min/max.  Then we can do a little comparison.  That might be a good excercise if interested.

Not  specific to disposal but a good timeline, not sure if you have seen this:

http://tinyurl.com/2a8ors

oops sorry looks like Worldjournier has taken down the timeline   

[dennisintn]

I tend to agree with you about Steve Croes. His access to boats .. ie the boat that takes the partygoers to the Tattoo and the route that the smaller boat takes. It would not look like anything suspicious to see Steve in a boat coming and going to and from the Tattoo. I think the people who would know anything are close to the Sloots or they have their own involvement in something else.
.
If there was a disposal at sea, it would have been done within the first 30 hours or so. There was no premeditation to cause her death, but the past history of the activity against tourist girls is the predictor.
 

kat, i totally agree with all of this.
dennisintn

[Tylergal]

I tend to agree with you about Steve Croes. His access to boats .. ie the boat that takes the partygoers to the Tattoo and the route that the smaller boat takes. It would not look like anything suspicious to see Steve in a boat coming and going to and from the Tattoo. I think the people who would know anything are close to the Sloots or they have their own involvement in something else.
.
If there was a disposal at sea, it would have been done within the first 30 hours or so. There was no premeditation to cause her death, but the past history of the activity against tourist girls is the predictor.
 

Yes, agree with that and what about a few nights after he was fired from the Tattoo, he was working as a DJ at c&c and while Greta was interviewing Beth, he is playing "another one bites the dust."

[flyer33716]

Even the "angel" looks like Anita!

look at the bottom right -- an arrow down to "a drink within a drink". At 6-5-05 these "theories"  were simply not out there yet.

look at the shallow grave in the picture. It sure looks like a boat on it's side

[AZSunny]

You are so right!  I had never seen the boat before.  even  the area where he wrote 'shallow grave' is like where a name would be placed on a boat.  there also appears to be barnacles on the bottom, and the beginnings of a mast!!  Good observation. 

[Nut44x4]

Is he wearing Joran's pimpin' shirt 

[Observer]

 X. Persistence

Update: 05-Jan-1610 hrs
The Persistence arrived dockside at 0500 hrs after a long night offshore. A few hours sitting still at the dock is revitalizing for a few of the beleaguered crew. Outside, the winds are unrelenting and whip the sea into angry white caps which crash onto the protective reef skirting the harbor. Even the heartiest seabirds have taken cover. The tourist submersible Atlantis II cancels its evening tour in lieu of being forced backwards by the driving currents. Inside, the Persistence is bustling with the daily chores of living on board a boat. With a whistle and a rumble, the twin Diesels comes alive without complaint. Once they’re warm, the lines are tossed and we’re off.

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

[Kat_Gram]

I tend to agree with you about Steve Croes. His access to boats .. ie the boat that takes the partygoers to the Tattoo and the route that the smaller boat takes. It would not look like anything suspicious to see Steve in a boat coming and going to and from the Tattoo. I think the people who would know anything are close to the Sloots or they have their own involvement in something else.
.
If there was a disposal at sea, it would have been done within the first 30 hours or so. There was no premeditation to cause her death, but the past history of the activity against tourist girls is the predictor.
 

kat, i totally agree with all of this.
dennisintn

Well, TY, but it really doesn't matter does it ?
The last hope to find Natalee rests with the ship and its crew and God.
I am hoping that they are successful.
And I also hope they have some technical evidence to do with " pings " from cell phones from the three or four. 
I find the technology very interesting and have been reading up on Kyle.
I am not discounting previous searches in the water, but they did not have this equipment or these experts to use the equipment and to analyze the data and to send the ROV's down to investigate.
..
I want to backtrack on my cage issue. The cage went missing when ? We would only know that if we knew :
a) when was the last time the fishermen used or saw the cage and when did they notice that it was no longer there ? The fishermen were on the beach the late Sunday night, I guess they go fishing late. Was it what time the next night they noticed the cage was missing and the huts were broken into ?
b.) Is this a regular happening, that the Huts are broken into ?
Not everything that happened on Aruba in that narrow time period is related to Natalee. Other crimes were committed. 

[Observer]

You feeling lucky OE? Please god,let this be the day!!

[flyer33716]

You are so right!  I had never seen the boat before.  even  the area where he wrote 'shallow grave' is like where a name would be placed on a boat.  there also appears to be barnacles on the bottom, and the beginnings of a mast!!  Good observation. 

could it be that they are not raising high and hell water because they are searching too deep? THe question would be which boats are sunk close to shore? I believe there was a boat you can see from shore that is sunk. The boat in the picture looks like a cattamaroon(spelling?). Just thoughts

[wreck]

Even the "angel" looks like Anita!

look at the bottom right -- an arrow down to "a drink within a drink". At 6-5-05 these "theories"  were simply not out there yet.

look at the shallow grave in the picture. It sure looks like a boat on it's side

Other things to note:
Natalee's "eyes closed" or missing near drink (implying she didn't see it coming)
It looks like people from the Holiday Inn are "watching" from the windows
"letters" in the sky : "m" or "3" , "i" , "v"  (any combination of these letters significant?? "M.I.V." etc.?)
the numeral "2" on each backpack strap
several more that we have discussed before!

[BTgirl]

I was clicking on some links at the bottom of an internet page and came across this. Is this a petition that we know about?

http://www.youchoose.net/campaign/boycott_aruba_for_natalee#campaignpeopletab

Sorry if this is something that everyone else was already aware of. Sometimes I lose track of things.

[BTgirl]

I was clicking on some links at the bottom of an internet page and came across this. Is this a petition that we know about?

http://www.youchoose.net/campaign/boycott_aruba_for_natalee#campaignpeopletab

Sorry if this is something that everyone else was already aware of. Sometimes I lose track of things.

I think that link I just gave goes to the second page of the site, rather than to the petition page. Try this: http://www.youchoose.net/campaign/boycott_aruba_for_natalee#campaignnodetab