Lively Case Discussion #490 7/9 - 7/10/2006

[San]

CBB - the call they were discussing on the Dr. Phil show was a different call.  The reason Beth is so sure Natalee was in the VDS home is based on the call received on May 30th.  The call they were discussing  on the Dr. Phil show was much later, durring the hurricaines.

The monkey sounds must be loud because Beth even heard them from the VDS residence.

[klaasend]

Pics of the search of the VDS neighbors home and property:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/02/van-der-sloot-house/

[crazybabyborg]

I'm bring out the poor horse.............But this call with the monkey sounds is emerging as more and more pivotal to try to figure out what happened and when and where it occurred.
My recollection is that Dave dismissed the call. Beth was less sure than Dave that it should be dismissed in the Dr. Phil appearance. However, as time has passed, neither of them have given the call the place of importance in any interview I have witnessed that one would expect, if it were accepted as fact that Nat made the call. In fact, I have witnessed many times, Dave and Beth say that they are sure Nat was taken to Joran's after leaving C&Cs, but beyond that, they aren't sure of anything. What is the surety expressed in this forum based on? Wow, that sounds confrontive, doesn't it? That's not intentional....I have a tremendous amount of respect for the posters here. I'm just missing something and want to be as confident as others are. HELP! TIA.

CBB - the call they were discussing on the Dr. Phil show was a different call.  The reason Beth is so sure Natalee was in the VDS home is based on the call received on May 30th.  The call they were discussing  on the Dr. Phil show was much later, durring the hurricaines.

OTAY Panky!  
Thank you so much for clearing this up for me. I'm going to go give the horse a proper burial now.......
I'm still surprised that MSM hasn't given this element of the case more attention, but hey, MSM isn't exactly on top of things, are they?
Thank you Klaas, and thank you all!

[mishy]

Have we ever discussed that "sharks" could be a metaphor for "card sharks" or "loan sharks?"

[Ono]

I don't think Natalee wanted to see the "big house" or "sharks" or wanted to have sex with the "exchange student" from Holland.  She wanted to go back to her hotel with the Dutch kid who was also staying at the hotel.

Exactly!

  Good Morning All ~

[ldstlou]

Home > Discuss > The Evidence Line >  Timeline May 30, 2005 Time line of  events  May 30, 2005
1:00 am   Natalee, Joran, Deepak and Satish depart Carlos 'n Charlies.  Closing time on Sunday night was earlier than other nights. In Joran's interview with Greta he says they left at "probably one a.m."  Reference: Joran van der Sloot/Greta interview

1:00 am - 1:50  Deepak drives Natalee and Joran   Conflict: Deepak states that "They drove around, drove to the lighthouse", then to the Marriott beach.  Reference : David Kock/Greta interview . Joran states in all of his interviews that they did not go to the lighthouse, but drove by his house staying in the car, then drove to the Marriott beach. Ending time is calculated by figuring the drive time to Deepak's home from the beach, and deducting that time from Deepak's computer login time (discussed in the following entry).
Also, note the conflict described in the following entry, which describes circumstances which indicate the drive might have ended at 1:35 am and not 1:50.
 


1:50 am   Natalee and Joran dropped at beach.  Conflict: Calculated as ten minutes prior to Deepak's computer log in at 2:00 am.. This is from David Kock statement that this is the drive time from Marriott beach area.  However, Aruban observers have noted that the Kalpoes live in Hooiberg, which is towards the airport on the opposite side of Orangestad from Palm Beach and the area where Joran lives.  Joran's asserts that Deepak lives 20 minutes from him.  Joran also says that he lives 5 minutes from the beach. So, the drive to Deepak's home  from the beach would have been 25 minutes.  Using Deepak's log in time as the mark, this would have meant that Natalee and Joran were dropped off at 1:35 am and not 1:50 am.
Dropoff might have even been several minutes prior to 1:50 or 1:35 (whichever is accurate), since a few minutes probably lapsed between arriving home and actually logging in.
 


1:59 am   Deepak and Satish arrive home.  The arrival home might have been even earlier, because the computer log in (2:00 am), most likely, would not have been done the instant they arrived home.


2:00 am   Deepak logs onto computer.  From the David Kock Greta interview, citing records presented in court.
2: 45 am   Joran cellphone call to Deepak  Conflict: We are assuming this call was not made to Deepak's cell phone. Only Joran's cellphone records are ever described in all discussions by David Kock and Joran or the Aruban police.  Plus, although not reliable, the so-called unsigned Deepak statement says Deepak's cellphone was not used that night, because no minutes were available. Even though that statement was authored  by police investigators , verifiable facts are not the kind of information to be falsified.    We then must also assume that Deepak has an internet connection separate from his home phone (maybe broadband), because Joran quotes Deepak as saying he was on the computer at the time, although new phone modems interrupt and pause for incoming calls.  Without seeing Deepak's or Joran's cellphone records, we can't verity which phone (home or cell) received the call.  It may not be an important distinction, since Deepak answered an IM from Joran (discussed in a subsequent entry) showing he was still home at a later time.
3:00 am   Deepak logs off computer.  Conflict: This was in David Kock's August interview.  It is in conflict with Joran's computer records, which indicate that Deepak answered an IM (instant message) from Joran at 3:45.  According to Joran, ABC news verified these computer records.  
3: 00 am   Satish arrives in Deepak's car at Marriott beach areas  This was deduced from Joran's assertion that Satish arrived, 10-15 minutes after Joran's 2:45 am phone call  to Deepak. (Joran/Greta interview). Conflict: Deepak and Satish maintain that they stayed home and did not go out again and that Joran walked home.
3:05 am  Joran cellphone call to Deepak. ..  David Kock says this was a call at 3:00 or shortly thereafter. He quotes Deepak, that this was Joran was saying that he arrived at home.  According to Kock, Joran's cellphone triangulation data indicated that this call was made from the neighborhood, which could either be the Mariott beach area all the way to Joran's  home). David Kock quote, "...that is not an exact pinpoint indication, but the general area is the area here in north of palm beach of the hotels."  
Marginal Conflict:  Not a phone "call, " but a cellphone "text message". Kock in a subsequent interview says that there was a phone call from Joran to Deepak and a later "chat message."  This will correspond with Koch's earlier statement that there were two phone contacts, by assuming that the second one was a cellphone text message and not the computer IM, which is discussed as occurring later. Hence his discussion of triangulation would not be in conflict.  Joran also verifed in the Greta interview that the "I got home" message was a cellphone text message as he distinguished two messages, and described the second one saying, " No, that was on the computer afterwards."

Potential conflict: Some people have questioned the accuracy of cellphone triangulation from the area around the beach and Joran's home, but that wiouldn't disprove that the call wasn't made from his house, merely weaken it as a proof that it was made from there.
 
3:05 am   Joran arrives home  Conflict: In the Greta interview, Joran states that the driving time from his house to the beach is five minutes. This would make the arrival time, thirty minutes prior to Joran's computer log in time.  In Greta interview, Joran says he arrived earlier than computer log in time and went to kitchen to get something to eat and drink, was going to go to sleep, then decided check if any friends were on line, if there was "anyone to talk to." According to David Kock statements presented to the courts showed that Deepak affirmed that Joran walked home.  A five minute drive would be an approximately 45 minute walk. If Joran started walking at 2:40 am, he could have then been home at about 3:30 am, coinciding with his computer login time with no thirty minute gap.
The thirty minutes gap is either an unaccounted for block of time or it was spent in the walk from the beach to his home (assuming someone in the group is telling the truth)..
 
3:35 am   Joran logs onto computer  Joran maintains computer log on records verified by ABC news.
3:45 am   Joran Instant messages Deepak, and receives answer   Joran says this is in the records verified by ABC news.  Conflict: as  described previously, David Kock says 3:00 am was Deepak's log off time.
3:50 - 4:00 am  Joran IM's Deepak again.  No answer.  Joran says he IM's (instant messaged) Deepak.  Deepak is showing as still on line.  Deepak doesn't answer. Joran assumes he is just away from the computer.  This is in the records verified by ABC news according to Joran. Conflicts with what David Kock says was Deepak's log off time.
6:40 am   Joran on school bus.  Joran's interview with Greta and verified from several sources.

 

This came up when I googled David Koch and timeline...don't think we can discount the records of Joran's phone calls. Puts him by pond about same time gardner saw him...then back at home about 3am...when Natalee got her phone call in.
Sorry so long.

[crazybabyborg]

CBB - fess up    you just wanted an excuse to use that beating the horse emoticon...right??    

  Well, I would rather admit to that than admit to something as important as this call going right over my head!

Now you've done it. One final catch up, since the call now exists in my reality. What time did it come through?

The content was, "Mom, I don't know these people", and monkey sounds, right?

[Easywriter]

Do we still have any posters from Aruba?

[Sleuth]

I don't think Natalee wanted to see the "big house" or "sharks" or wanted to have sex with the "exchange student" from Holland.  She wanted to go back to her hotel with the Dutch kid who was also staying at the hotel.

I could believe that as it was her last night in Aruba she might have been enticed by another site to see that she had not been to yet.  Such as the lighthouse.  

Does anyone remember if the MB kids went to the lighthouse earlier in their vacation?  If not, that would be a reason to go there - tourist destination, good views of the lights, etc. at night.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Been catching up, and the posts regarding PVDS's delay in responding when police and Holloway/Twitty entourage arrived 5/31 early AM made me recall that he also came out of the bushes, sotospeak, when Greta and Beth came to call.  What the heck was that all about?  It's also stuck in my mind as peculiar.  Sorry if this post makes me seem stuck on stupid, but it was something that came back to me.

Good day all.

[Nut44x4]

Did they ever use a "scent" dog, or just a cadaver dog??

I know TES searched the neighbor's yard...but don't know which neighbor for sure...I think the monkey one.

It was the monkey one and Red was there while it was searched.  He can answer any questions about it.

No offense to any of us monkey's, lol....but it must really suck to live next to someone who has a screechingggg monkey. That is almost as bad as living next to someone who has a rooster, egads. Again I thank klaas 4 her pix and info.

[San]

Pics of the search of the VDS neighbors home and property:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/02/van-der-sloot-house/

That yellow wall doesn't look to high and I could get over that fense.  There was a story about Natalee trying to climb over a fence and hitting her head.  Just thinking of the possibility.

[whytegirl]

jumped in.....gonna call Mr. Whyte about that cat....grrr!!!!  If they don't let him adopt him I will write the newspaper...I am afraid he might already b gone!  

At least Mikey can pinpoint him to the cat.

I don't understand why they won't let you at least put a hold on the cat??

Because it is a kitten.  They don't hold kittens so it is first come first serve basis.  If the cat was an adult they would've let me put a "HOLD" on him; let me pay a fee or the whole thing then I could get him when they verify KC's history with the vet.  I know, I was fuming!!!!!


ps....just said a little prayer that you get your kitty-kitty!!
I was able to put a hold on an adult cat; but because they don't test for leukemia the cat died with me.  Mr. Whyte wanted to make sure he could get there at noon when they open up to get O'Douls for me.  Funny thing, Jewel was the name of my cat.  The girls at the shelter were shocked at the name similarity and the resemblance.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!

Mr. Whyte forgot so I sent him quickly, it is 12:43 here so they opened almost an hour ago.

Call me obsessed but first come first served basis-the cat could've been gone after I left or just now.  I'd rather have him check and try to adopt him for me.

What has me ????? is that there is NO PAPER TRAIL.  I have adopted cats from them 3-4 times and I always have to fill the damn application with repeated info so I am never NEVER in their system.  They just keep a log, apparently, on the pets up for adoption.  Not the people the pets go to.  KC was adopted from them in 2002.

If Mr. Whyte brings a kitty home I will post pics ASAP.  If it is this one I will be post up a pic and scan up the one I have of Jewel so you see the resemblance.  That cat also has Maine Coon in him cause it was huge to be a kitten.

[Ono]

I don't think Natalee wanted to see the "big house" or "sharks" or wanted to have sex with the "exchange student" from Holland.  She wanted to go back to her hotel with the Dutch kid who was also staying at the hotel.

The VDS house doesn't look like a big house.  They looks like a bunch of shacks on one piece of property.  From the overhead picture of that property it doesn't even look clean.

.....and it looks just orange! Anita's color palette went overboard in her attempt to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  I would have a difficult digesting my food there on a daily basis. Wonder if the main house has a stone floor ??? As in falling and "hitting her head on the floor" ?

[Leslie]

At 1:30 AM?  Is the Lighthouse lit up at night?

[Sleuth]

Do we still have any posters from Aruba?

I think we have a couple.  Linda ?

[crazybabyborg]

Do we still have any posters from Aruba?

  Ohhhhhh................I'm sorry easy.  You kinda walked into that one.
My toes are still curled from being so thick, and I'm just being silly. {HUGS}

[Sleuth]

At 1:30 AM?  Is the Lighthouse lit up at night?

The lighthouse itself does not have lights and is locked up.  

There are streetlights in that area so getting there at night is not a problem, and it is a good vantage point to see the twinkling lights of Palm Beach area, etc.

[Sleuth]

CBB - good one regarding the posters        

[San]

I don't think Natalee wanted to see the "big house" or "sharks" or wanted to have sex with the "exchange student" from Holland.  She wanted to go back to her hotel with the Dutch kid who was also staying at the hotel.

I could believe that as it was her last night in Aruba she might have been enticed by another site to see that she had not been to yet.  Such as the lighthouse.  

Does anyone remember if the MB kids went to the lighthouse earlier in their vacation?  If not, that would be a reason to go there - tourist destination, good views of the lights, etc. at night.

That is a good question Sleuth.  What if they found out that Natalee wouldn't want to see the lighthouse because she already took a trip there with her friends.