Natalee Case Discussion #756 6/5 -6/8/08

[carpe noctem]

I believe the head wound came from the car and pavement...

the ending... with a gun.


Everything else the Van der sloots and Kalpoes talk about is

to drown everyone in mass confusion and speculation...

so the four bags of trash escape a jail sentence!

[Buckeye]

weapon to me is not a baseball bat - but more like what Carpe has been harping about for three years - guns - knives ... a bat could be a weapon . . . a baseball bat is going to take either one perfectly aim strike or there is going to be a beating from hell to kill the person.

without his clothes or a paraffin test it's hard to know what he killed her with. I wouldn't necessarily discount a baseball bat, especially after what Viet Vet said - but where is the bat and are the Sloots missing a bat? Was the bat in Deepak's Honda? and was it Deepak's bat?

or are the ALE hiding the actual knowledge of the murder weapon because it would mean that the Sloots house is the murder house. If the bat is Joran's that means that they have to have been at that house - there's no way around that - since no MB kids say Joran was carrying a baseball bat into CnC. If a bat was used and it came from the Sloot house - it's a closed case and solved.

Joran is reassuring.  If there is no weapon, no bloody clothes....the weapon (bat or whatever) has been taken care of.  Maybe Deepak carried a bat in his car for protection...who knows.  Maybe they were used to going into caves and swinging at flying bats....

[Rob]

Good Morning Monkeys.

Using a program called fxfoto, I lightened up the pic of the footwear Joran had on at CnC's. I adjusted the gamma and brightness as well as the saturation. This is what I got. It looks to me like they are white sneakers. Now, mind you, I have never done this before. Just thought it was pretty interesting and anyone can download the program, free and do the same.

Mrskub - you are fantastic   

fwiw - this is the profile of Nike's Air series (Cross Trainers) . . . I should know - I've had about a thousand pairs of them in my life.

[Rob]

weapon to me is not a baseball bat - but more like what Carpe has been harping about for three years - guns - knives ... a bat could be a weapon . . . a baseball bat is going to take either one perfectly aim strike or there is going to be a beating from hell to kill the person.

without his clothes or a paraffin test it's hard to know what he killed her with. I wouldn't necessarily discount a baseball bat, especially after what Viet Vet said - but where is the bat and are the Sloots missing a bat? Was the bat in Deepak's Honda? and was it Deepak's bat?

or are the ALE hiding the actual knowledge of the murder weapon because it would mean that the Sloots house is the murder house. If the bat is Joran's that means that they have to have been at that house - there's no way around that - since no MB kids say Joran was carrying a baseball bat into CnC. If a bat was used and it came from the Sloot house - it's a closed case and solved.

Joran is reassuring.  If there is no weapon, no bloody clothes....the weapon (bat or whatever) has been taken care of.  Maybe Deepak carried a bat in his car for protection...who knows.  Maybe they were used to going into caves and swinging at flying bats....

Buckeye, either way - you found an important clue. So we know he is worried about more than a shoe or two - he's also worried there is more out there. No one just says the word "weapon" when he has nothing to do with it.

This jackass should have been in jail three years ago. This is so obvious.

A baseball bat beating at his house would have left a ton of blood splatter that the KLPD should have easily found during the last go round.

[SS]

Deepak describing June 2, 2005, from Joran's book (pg. 123-124):

After a while Joran's mother came into the room. When she was in the room I heard her talk to someone who was involved in the search. I heard Joran's mother say they were busy searching at the lighthouse.
 
On a certain moment Joran asked his father: Dad if they find the girl at the lighthouse we are in trouble.His father answerd: "Yes then you are in trouble because you have stated that you have been there with the girl". Joran then asked his father: And if they don't find a body? His father answered: No, if they don't find a body then you are not that much into trouble. I asked: Is it just like in the VS that if they do not have a body that they do not have a case against you? Joran said: It is just like in the VS. If they don't have a body, if they don't have a weapon, if they don't have clothes with blood on it, if they don't have fingerprints, then they cannot start a case. Before I left Joran's father asked me if I could ask my mother to call him.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/book/statements.htm


He was describing the Paulus "no body, no case" advise.   Wonder why Joran included the other bits....weapon?? not just clothes, but "clothes with blood"?? fingerprints. Just seems odd to bring up forensics if you were not involved in "something bad" happening.

Was he just reassuring Deepak...who was getting scared?

Baseball bat.

Yep...now...was it Val...who *might* IIRC..said something about knocking her head off with a baseball bat...and wasn't that one of the things sooked for in the VDS home....I can't remember too well...but, there is a vague memory floating around in my widdle head...

I also recall that somewhere Val said that there was a girl in the bathtub and the girl got hit with a baseball bat.

[Buckeye]

Nikes with Tweetybird here:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1121.msg154119#msg154119

[San]

weapon to me is not a baseball bat - but more like what Carpe has been harping about for three years - guns - knives ... a bat could be a weapon . . . a baseball bat is going to take either one perfectly aim strike or there is going to be a beating from hell to kill the person.

without his clothes or a paraffin test it's hard to know what he killed her with. I wouldn't necessarily discount a baseball bat, especially after what Viet Vet said - but where is the bat and are the Sloots missing a bat? Was the bat in Deepak's Honda? and was it Deepak's bat?

or are the ALE hiding the actual knowledge of the murder weapon because it would mean that the Sloots house is the murder house. If the bat is Joran's that means that they have to have been at that house - there's no way around that - since no MB kids say Joran was carrying a baseball bat into CnC. If a bat was used and it came from the Sloot house - it's a closed case and solved.

The Sloots house is the murder house.  I believe it was a bat that was at the Sloot home.  I am not ruling out knives.  Knives comes in later after Natalee was dead.  If you hit her in the temple one shot could kill her.  Joran lost his temper and this is what killed her.

Joran brought up the word gun in the car to take away from what really killed her.  When we first heard that tape and the word gun we all thought Satish had a gun and Joran killed her with it.  Notice how we still said Joran killed her and it was Satish's gun.

[San]

weapon to me is not a baseball bat - but more like what Carpe has been harping about for three years - guns - knives ... a bat could be a weapon . . . a baseball bat is going to take either one perfectly aim strike or there is going to be a beating from hell to kill the person.

without his clothes or a paraffin test it's hard to know what he killed her with. I wouldn't necessarily discount a baseball bat, especially after what Viet Vet said - but where is the bat and are the Sloots missing a bat? Was the bat in Deepak's Honda? and was it Deepak's bat?

or are the ALE hiding the actual knowledge of the murder weapon because it would mean that the Sloots house is the murder house. If the bat is Joran's that means that they have to have been at that house - there's no way around that - since no MB kids say Joran was carrying a baseball bat into CnC. If a bat was used and it came from the Sloot house - it's a closed case and solved.

Joran is reassuring.  If there is no weapon, no bloody clothes....the weapon (bat or whatever) has been taken care of.  Maybe Deepak carried a bat in his car for protection...who knows.  Maybe they were used to going into caves and swinging at flying bats....

Maybe it was the "something to hold" that JaimeC was asked by the police in his statement.

[Rob]

[Rob]

[carpe noctem]

I really think these guys are lowlifes. ... but to me, they are rapists...

...and this was the time it escalated to murder. ...not a beating.


...but

By her fighting so hard to escape... she hurt herself.

(and in my book, that's still a murder.)

[SS]

I think you got it Robby, my boy.  You are on a roll today.  That second McDonalds looks like it's about 8-10 blocks away from the pond.  I wonder if this is where Paulus picked Joran up earlier in the evening before CnCs.  He and Freddy might have been setting up the video scene in anticipation of the evening's events.

[San]

I really think these guys are lowlifes. ... but to me, they are rapists...

...and this was the time it escalated to murder. ...not a beating.


...but

By her fighting so hard to escape... she hurt herself.

(and in my book, that's still a murder.)

I have thought of that too.  If they brought an injured Natalee to the Sloot home Paulus is a murderer also.

But I will lean towards the Sloot home being the crime scene.

I never had any faith in those Dutch Forensic experts or MOS.  So if they came up with evidence we were never going to be told the truth.  They are all in on it.  They have the information the world wants to know and they are not tell the truth or release the information.

[Buckeye]

Deepak describing June 2, 2005, from Joran's book (pg. 123-124):

After a while Joran's mother came into the room. When she was in the room I heard her talk to someone who was involved in the search. I heard Joran's mother say they were busy searching at the lighthouse.
 
On a certain moment Joran asked his father: Dad if they find the girl at the lighthouse we are in trouble.His father answerd: "Yes then you are in trouble because you have stated that you have been there with the girl". Joran then asked his father: And if they don't find a body? His father answered: No, if they don't find a body then you are not that much into trouble. I asked: Is it just like in the VS that if they do not have a body that they do not have a case against you? Joran said: It is just like in the VS. If they don't have a body, if they don't have a weapon, if they don't have clothes with blood on it, if they don't have fingerprints, then they cannot start a case. Before I left Joran's father asked me if I could ask my mother to call him.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/book/statements.htm


He was describing the Paulus "no body, no case" advise.   Wonder why Joran included the other bits....weapon?? not just clothes, but "clothes with blood"?? fingerprints. Just seems odd to bring up forensics if you were not involved in "something bad" happening.

Was he just reassuring Deepak...who was getting scared?

Baseball bat.

Yep...now...was it Val...who *might* IIRC..said something about knocking her head off with a baseball bat...and wasn't that one of the things sooked for in the VDS home....I can't remember too well...but, there is a vague memory floating around in my widdle head...

I also recall that somewhere Val said that there was a girl in the bathtub and the girl got hit with a baseball bat.

IIRC

Val said something about being decapitated above the eyebrows.  The bathtub picture was on one of Val's friends sites.

[carpe noctem]

Then, from what I see...

I believe (insert name here) put one shot right in her forehead to end her suffering.

...and that is the magical reason we've never recovered her.

All the explaining in the world ain't gonna mitigate that!!!!!!!

[Buckeye]

I really think these guys are lowlifes. ... but to me, they are rapists...

...and this was the time it escalated to murder. ...not a beating.


...but

By her fighting so hard to escape... she hurt herself.

(and in my book, that's still a murder.)

I have thought of that too.  If they brought an injured Natalee to the Sloot home Paulus is a murderer also.

But I will lean towards the Sloot home being the crime scene.

I never had any faith in those Dutch Forensic experts or MOS.  So if they came up with evidence we were never going to be told the truth.  They are all in on it.  They have the information the world wants to know and they are not tell the truth or release the information.

I keep the early "gate" theory in mind.  I wonder if Joran sent the dogs to pull her off the gate...why else throw in the story about Deepak coming with two dogs?

[SS]

I wonder if Natalee was gang raped and filmed at the apartments and then brought back to the Sloot house (probably unconscious) where they finished her off when she awoke and started to struggle. 

[Rob]

I think you got it Robby, my boy.  You are on a roll today.  That second McDonalds looks like it's about 8-10 blocks away from the pond.  I wonder if this is where Paulus picked Joran up earlier in the evening before CnCs.  He and Freddy might have been setting up the video scene in anticipation of the evening's events.

Hi SS  - here ya go - yes this is where he claims he picked him up.

[Buckeye]

Maybe Joran tried to shoot the dog...and missed...

[Rob]

SS - one more for ya - this is a little better view.