Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #8 7/20/10 - 7/23/10

[Tamikosmom]

Tracygirl

Thanks for all that grand jury info.

Janet
 

[Brandi]

Can the Grand Jury require Terry Horman to answers questions or ... can does she have the right not to testify?

Janet

Can a witness refuse to appear before the grand jury?

      Not without risking being held in contempt of the court that issued the subpoena to compel their testimony.

http://www.abanet.org/media/faqjury.html

[Gypsy DD]

But,,it seems per Blinks comments a few days ago or a week...that in Oregon they use the GJ often in place of the preliminary hearing. Many States do..they are able to present in private the prosecutors case, call witnesses, the same as a trial..all the GJ has to do is say yes or no to the amount of facts and testimony they have heard to bring a person to trial.  And this is used often in DP cases to add another layer of legal precidence..in other words..if the evidence ad the person didn't ass up to guilt..there would be a no verdict..a yes verdict means that the GJ found compelling evidence and testimony to say this person or spersons need to stand trial for this case.

[Scatty]

With so much time passed and few leads on his whereabouts, Multnomah County District Attorney Michael Schrunk told our sister station KATU News Thursday, that even if there is no arrest imminent  in Kyron's dissapearance, his staff are now preparing an investigation that is trial ready for when an arrest occurs

____________

how do you prepare an investigation that is trial ready if you do not know who you are arresting or what happened? 

and why would police suddenly not need money to keep investigating...

again... makes no sense what they are saying.

It seems as if they are beating around the bush with the "even if's". I suspect and it is very likely that they know quite a bit more than they are willing to let out and release to the public right now.

This all makes me wonder if they are trying to work out a deal. No arrest (due to psychological problems or whatever) in return for Kyron's whereabouts.

[Tracygirl]

I think the only thing that bothers me regarding a GJ indictment is the person being accused has not presented their side. I think it may save a state money since they can present their case and know if a jury will find validity to it. But I wouldn't say a person is guilty of a crime if a GJ has indicted them.

[Gypsy DD]

Wow..sorry about my previous post..didn't use spell check..I was trying to say fuss up to guilt..it came out ass up..well ..too many Cosmos for me! 

[Tracygirl]

Tracygirl

Thanks for all that grand jury info.

Janet
 

Your welcome Janet.

[Tamikosmom]

Can the Grand Jury require Terry Horman to answers questions or ... can does she have the right not to testify?

Janet

Can a witness refuse to appear before the grand jury?

      Not without risking being held in contempt of the court that issued the subpoena to compel their testimony.

http://www.abanet.org/media/faqjury.html

Thanks Brandi.

I am trying to digest all this info on a grand jury.  I am little confused in some areas as there appears to be contradictions.  It is probably me.  I will read everything again this evening.

Later, Janet
3:50 PM PT

[Tamikosmom]

Wow..sorry about my previous post..didn't use spell check..I was trying to say fuss up to guilt..it came out ass up..well ..too many Cosmos for me! 

 

[Gypsy DD]

I think the only thing that bothers me regarding a GJ indictment is the person being accused has not presented their side. I think it may save a state money since they can present their case and know if a jury will find validity to it. But I wouldn't say a person is guilty of a crime if a GJ has indicted them.

Oh I agree , but in Federal crimes..and murder..I think what the state needs to do the state needs to do..they can't wait for a confession.  They need to act on the info they have..they act on both  the investigation info..and statements.  Id the so called guilty person has a totally different tale then other people..witnesses..then the GJ is a go for me.  Look at the Caylee Anthony case....they needed a GJ to arrest Casey for the death of her daughter, in november..the body wasn't found until DEC..but it was the right call..even her father testified to the GJ.

[doubledecker]

how do I say this... hmmmm....

I know there is a grand jury going on. 

there I said it

Ok I'll bite, how do you know this? Not that I doubt you DD, you know I don't. but how did you find this out?

 I obviously can't say or I would have just said it.  what i don't know is what they might have found out... but with what le is saying and giving that money back etc, and there saying a good resolution and legally and now the da needs money and the cops can give their money back, after they just said they needed more for overtime, and now obviously do not need more for overtime, I really have to wonder what they found out..

something changed...and I honestly believe it could have to do with the grand jury talking to someone.  I know they are talking to someone, I just do not know what they are finding out.

DD, do you know for certain this is one of the cases the Grand Jury heard?

yes I know for certain this is kyron's case they are hearing.   

[Patricia Mocha Latte]

how do I say this... hmmmm....

I know there is a grand jury going on. 

there I said it

Ok I'll bite, how do you know this? Not that I doubt you DD, you know I don't. but how did you find this out?

 I obviously can't say or I would have just said it.  what i don't know is what they might have found out... but with what le is saying and giving that money back etc, and there saying a good resolution and legally and now the da needs money and the cops can give their money back, after they just said they needed more for overtime, and now obviously do not need more for overtime, I really have to wonder what they found out..

something changed...and I honestly believe it could have to do with the grand jury talking to someone.  I know they are talking to someone, I just do not know what they are finding out.

DD, do you know for certain this is one of the cases the Grand Jury heard?

yes I know for certain this is kyron's case they are hearing.   

Makes me wonder also if somehow the MFH plot might possibly be taken into consideration even further now as well. Since the sting did not produce the evidence intended, could, say perhaps, the alleged witness testimony be coupled with a LDT or possibly other (unknown to the public) information be used to secure a GJ indictment?

I'd say it's possible. Who knows?

[Brandi]

Under the Oregon constitution and state law, a felony prosecution cannot proceed to trial unless an indictment has been issued by the grand jury.  The grand jury is where the prosecutor, without the defendant or his attorney present, submit witness to the grand jury to determine whether or not to indict, or charge, the defendant.

The grand jury may indict when all the evidence before it, taken together, is such as in its judgment would, if unexplained or uncontradicted, warrant a conviction by the trial jury.  A conviction is only warranted by the trial jury if there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, which requires proof to a moral certainty.

http://www.arnoldlawfirm.com/oregon-jury-duty-lane-county.html#grandjury

[Wyks]

I am going to post a series of five pics with descriptions, in an order, which will hopefully help to explain one version of the 'access road theory'.  We've discussed this theory before.  Being a visual person, there have been many pics with different views of the school, turned this way and that.  It was hard to see the 'access road', where it is in relation to the school.  So am thinking this series of pics and descriptions may help others to better understand this theory.  (I'll post all this in our pics section as well).   

Ok, here we go, starting with my next post. 

[Wyks]

Part One: Access Road Theory

We have one road leading from Skyline Blvd to the parking of the school.  Parents/staff use the same road leading in/out of the parking lot. 

But there is also an 'access road', on the other side of the school, from the parking lot.  It looks like this 'access road' is used by groundskeepers, etc. 

These aerial shots are outdated.  In the following pic, you can see the school, the soccer field, (at the bottom of the pic), and the parking lot that leads to the street, (at the top of the pic).  In this pic, the front of the school faces Skyline Blvd to the right.

There are three playground areas. One is out in front of the school, grassy, with a sandy playarea. Skyline Blvd runs along the front to the right, near that sandy playarea.  Kyron's Wall Of Hope (fence), is between the sandy playarea and Skyline Blvd.
 
There's another playground area out back of the school, and is paved.  Behind that back playground is a covered playground.   

There's a slope between the school and soccer field.  There are three stairways that lead from the school/playgrounds, down the slope to the soccer field. 

There's one stairway on the left (from the back paved playground), one stairway in the middle (from the long hallway to the classrooms - see the white-edged doorway?), and the hint of a stairway on the right (from the front grassy playground.   

In the pic below, look at the white-edged  doorway that leads into the long hallway to the classrooms.  In front of that white-edged doorway, you can see the hint of the stairway that goes down the slope from the school to the soccer field. 
 
In this pic there is the hint of a 'dirt road' at the bottom of that stairway, between the slope and the soccer field.  In later pics you'll see that they have paved that 'dirt road' into an 'access road'. (Which is not in this pic but now rings the soccer field, curves around near the grassy playground and leads onto Skyline Blvd.) 

[doubledecker]

grand jurors are just that jurors, just like anyone in any case who sits on a jury... in a grand jury, they jurors do not even have to be instructed in the law... they just pretty much decide whatever they want to decide... they listen and make up their own minds if they think the person should be taken to trial or not... and then never hear the other side of the story... they hear what the da wants them to here, that is it that is all...

the jurors are just like anyone on the forums... so you have people exactly like who sits and posts on these forums, listening to what the da says and the witnesses the da calls, and that is it...

so you see how many people on the forums already believe terri is guilty so you are going to have the same kind of outcome from a grand jury... only in a grand jury you have to convince only 5 people rather than 12.  and the person accused do not get to tell their side...

it is pretty much going to be (if it is terri the prosecutors bring before the grand jury, which it most like is) she will be indicted. 

[ospainter]

http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Source-Tualatin-homes-of-Terri-Hormans-friends-searched-kyron-missing-portland-99062069.html

Source: Tualatin homes of Terri Horman's friends searched

PORTLAND, Ore. -- A reliable source tells KGW police have searched the homes of three friends of Kyron Horman's step-mother in the past week to look for evidence in the case.

One of the unidentified friends reportedly had information on Terri Moulton-Horman's whereabouts on the day Kyron disappeared from Skyline Elementary on June 4. The friend may have violated a judge’s orders by seeing a then-sealed restraining order, filed against Terri by Kyron's father Kaine Horman, according to the source.

Two of the homes were in Tualatin. A third search warrant at an undiclosed location was executed Thursday.

There have been no suspects or persons of interest named since Kyron disappeared.

However, in court documents, the boy's father Kaine Horman stated police provided him with "probable cause" to believe that Terri-Moulton Horman was involved in KYron's disappearance, was plotting to have him killed, and having a sexual affair. DETAILS: Restraining order issued Last weekend, he had Terri evicted from the family's NW Portland home.

She has since relocated to her parents' home in Roseburg.

(snipped)

OS

[Wyks]

Part Two: Access Road Theory

In the following pic, you can see the slope between the soccer field (out of sight on the left), the stairway going up that slope, and a portion of the white-edged doorway that leads into the long hallway to the classrooms. 

[Tracygirl]

If only an arrest and an indictment will lead us to Kyron.

[Wyks]

Part Three: Access Road Theory

In the following pic, you can see the stairway going down that slope.  This is standing at the top of the stairway, with the white-edged doorway into the long classroom hallway behind.  You can also now see the paved 'access road' at the bottom of that stairway.