The Slaying of Trayvon Martin in Florida #4 6/14/13

[MuffyBee]

Right Muffy  that's why I like my .410/45,it will do no harm except what I am shooting at. Mostly I fire in the ground for the bang. I wonder if that would have helped Z?

Texas is the opposite of FL in regard to concealing a long gun.  Go figure...

I don't think a warning shot would have helped nor would have been feasible if that's what you mean.  CHL classes don't teach warning shots.  (I think there's too much of that on TV.  JMHO) A bullet has to go somewhere, after all.  Plus, if GZ and TM were on the ground struggling a warning shot could be deadly.
 

http://flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/790.06
2012 Florida Statutes
CHAPTER 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS

(Concealed Carry)
 
Allows concealed possession of handguns, electronic weapons or devices, tear gas guns, knives, or billies, but not long guns or machine guns per Chapter 790.06(1). Concealed carry only; no open carry of firearms allowed, even with license, except when hunting, fishing, camping, or while practice shooting and while traveling to and from those activities.
 

(Open Carry)

http://flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/790.053
790.053 Open carrying of weapons.—
(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.
(2) A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense:
(a) A self-defense chemical spray.
(b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.
(3) Any person violating this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

[alagary]

Luckily I have never had to fire at a human and even most of the animals I am only trying to scare off.

[jamcakes]

I see no reason to change the title of the sticky  What I will do is change the title of the NEXT thread.  

Thank you!

[grace-land]

http://www.startribune.com/nation/212103841.html

Jurors in Zimmerman case asked about neighborhood watch involvement, other personal info
Article by: KYLE HIGHTOWER , Associated Press
Updated: June 19, 2013 - 6:05 PM

 
After the judge read the charge, prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda began a second round of more intensive, personal questioning with the 40 potential jurors, whose names are kept confidential. The final jury will be sequestered throughout the trial to protect jurors from outside influence.

De la Rionda also warned jurors that they would have to forget anything they knew about the case previously and base their information only on what they heard in the courtroom. He reminded them the judicial system is different than what they see on television shows like the "CSI" and "Law & Order" franchises.

"What you saw on TV or on the Internet or read or what the media said is completely irrelevant," he said.

Several candidates were involved with rescuing animals, and the pool included a competitive arm-wrestler, a competitive fisherman and a man who enters barbecue competitions. Seven potential jurors said they had previously been arrested. But they said that their cases had been dropped and that they thought they were treated fairly.

Fourteen candidates said they had been victims of crimes, including four involving violent crimes. A white woman in her 50s said it would be difficult for her to keep her experience with a violent crime out of the courtroom.

"It's always in my mind," she said.

Twenty-seven of the 40 potential jurors are white, seven are black, three are mixed race and three are Hispanic. Twenty-four are women and 16 are men.

The racial and ethnic makeup of potential jurors is relevant since prosecutors have argued that Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer for his gated community in Sanford, Fla., profiled Trayvon Martin when he followed the teen last year as Martin was walking back from a convenience store to the house of his father's fiancee.

Zimmerman fatally shot Martin a short time later following a confrontation that was partially captured on a 911 call.

De la Rionda also asked if the potential jurors had been members of a neighborhood watch group and if it was acceptable for individuals to take the law into their own hands. None of the jurors had much experience with neighborhood watch groups and for the most part didn't believe it was OK for individuals to act as law enforcement officers.

"There may be occasions, but I would generally say no," said a middle-aged black man.

The prosecutor also asked if potential jurors either owned or had fired guns and if the race or age of Martin was important to any decision they would make. Around two dozen jury candidates either owned or had fired guns, and no one said age and race mattered.

When asking potential jurors about whether clothing mattered, a reference to Martin's hoodie, a white woman in her 30s said, "I try not to make judgments, but I know we make assumptions."

 

[grace-land]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/19/19042494-george-zimmermans-parents-attend-jury-selection?lite

George Zimmerman's parents attend jury selection
4 hours ago

George Zimmerman's parents were in a Florida courtroom Wednesday to "visibly advocate" for the former neighborhood watch volunteer charged with second-degree murder in the death of Trayvon Martin.

Robert and Gladys Zimmerman have not previously attend jury selection, which began June 10, because they have received death threats and have been taking care of an elderly relative with Alzheimer's, their older son, Robert Zimmerman Jr., said in a statement emailed to NBC News.

“Despite safety considerations, the time was right to do what they could to visibly advocate for George's innocence,” the statement said.

"Going forward, security and other concerns are paramount and our periodic absence from court should not be misinterpreted as a withdrawal of support.”

The parents were joined by their daughter, Gracie, as prosecutors and defense lawyers began trying to winnow down a pool of 40 potential jurors to a panel of six.
 

[grace-land]

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06/19/george-zimmerman-parents-court-trayvon-martin

Zimmerman's parents make first court appearance
updated 6:03 PM EDT, Wed June 19, 2013

 
The following statement was sent to HLN on behalf of Zimmerman's brother, Robert, who wasn't in court Wednesday:

"Our parents: Mr. & Mrs. Zimmerman along with our sister are in court today supporting George. Despite safety considerations, the time was right to do what they could to visibly advocate for George's innocence. Our parents have avoided showing their face on-camera because of numerous death threats directed at our entire family. Our parents have served as primary caretakers for our grandmother Cristina for years. Alzheimer's disease has left her requiring round-the-clock care & supervision. I am happy to care for our grandmother, as George, our sister & I were raised largely with her help and consider her a parent."

Robert Zimmerman says the family may not be visible in court for the duration of the trial -- for a good reason.

"Going forward, security and other concerns are paramount and our periodic absence from court should not be misinterpreted as a withdrawal of support. Our position as a family has been clear & consistent since the night George was attacked: We are all sympathetic to the tragic reality of outliving a son or daughter, however... George acted in self-defense, self-defense should not be criminalized & we stand by George because he told the truth."
 

[Amys Sister]

Luckily I have never had to fire at a human and even most of the animals I am only trying to scare off.

 

I have a pomeranian and two cats who come and go as they please out our dog door.  Our acreage is heavily treed and we enjoy lots of coyotes and hawks, eagles, deer, nasty coons (beady eyed little buggers)... I love it.  One cat is 17 and I swear he's killed a coyote.  No proof but I bet he did.

Anyway, glad you're not shooting to kill most times, Alagary.

We're amply armed but I don't carry.  I do have a plan I've mentally rehearsed many times in the event of an intruder.  I don't choose to kill, animal or human, but if my own or anyone else's life is in danger (really in danger of actually dying by someone intending to kill us or illegally intrude on our private property) I would not hesitate.  And I'm a very good shot.  My daddy taught me when I was a wee little one. 

[grace-land]

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/6/19/analyst_defense_shou.html

Analyst: Defense should be faster in George Zimmerman 'traditional voir dire'
Last Updated: Wednesday, June 19, 2013

 
Legal analyst Jaya Balani offered some insight into how long we can expect the defense to take.

“Regarding the prosecution's side, usually they take a little bit longer than the defense usually takes because they start out with all the questioning, and it's usually the same questions the defense wants to know the answers to,’ Balani said.

Once the questioning is done, attorneys will try to narrow down the pool to the final six jurors and four alternates for trial.

Balani explained what will happen after the questioning is finished.

"They'll [the defense] sit down with the client, the state will sit down with his other attorney and decide who they want on the jury and who they don't want on the jury. Then, what the judge will do is, they'll go back and forth, the state versus the defense and they'll choose  if they want to use their strike or not.'

Each side gets 10 peremptory strikes that can be used to get rid of a potential juror for almost any reason.

[grace-land]

   Good Morning everyone! 

June 20, 2013 Tweets cont

https://twitter.com/yamiche

Yamiche Alcindor Yamiche Alcindor ‏@Yamiche  7m 
Back in court this morning are the mother & father of both #TrayvonMartin  and #GeorgeZimmerman They sit on opposite sides of the courtroom

Yamiche Alcindor Yamiche Alcindor ‏@Yamiche  7m 
The judge has said the court is waiting for the potential jurors to arrive.

Yamiche Alcindor Yamiche Alcindor ‏@Yamiche  9m 
Court is back in session. #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

[grace-land]

June 20, 2013 Tweets cont

https://twitter.com/yamiche

Yamiche Alcindor Yamiche Alcindor ‏@Yamiche  3m 
Potential jurors are now walking into the courtroom.

Yamiche Alcindor Yamiche Alcindor ‏@Yamiche  3m 
Reminder: Defense attorneys will be questioning the potential jurors today about personal beliefs Yesterday the prosecution got their chance

[MuffyBee]

Good morning grace-land and our 1 guest     


June 20, 2013 Tweets
https://twitter.com/jeffweineros

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 1m
O'Mara says we're at the "end of voir dire." #TrayvonMartin #GeorgeZimmerman

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 2m
None of the jurors say they've broken the court's rules. O'Mara now to start questioning. #TrayvonMartin #GeorgeZimmerman

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 4m
Potential jurors are now entering court. Still working on our video stream. #TrayvonMartin #GeorgeZimmerman

 Valerie Boey ‏@vboey 10m
#GeorgeZimmerman and #trayvonmartin parents are in courtroom wating for potential jurors to arrive.#fox35
 Retweeted by Jeff Weiner

 Jerriann Sullivan ‏@JerriannOS 8m
From @BethKassab #GeorgeZimmerman, #CaseyAnthony trials have little in common so far http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-beth-kassab-20130619,0,7611034.column … #TrayvonMartin #Trayvon
 Retweeted by Jeff Weiner
 View summary

 Rene Stutzman ‏@renestutzman 16m
Judge, #GeorgeZimmerman & attys-await arrival of 40 prospective jurors. C-room is very quiet. #TrayvonMartin
 Retweeted by Jeff Weiner
 from Sanford, FL

 Rene Stutzman ‏@renestutzman 20m
#GeorgeZimmerman's parents and sister return to c-room. Judge gavel's session to order. #TrayvonMartin
 Retweeted by Jeff Weiner
 from Sanford, FL

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 19m
We're having problems with our video stream again folks. Working to fix.

 Rene Stutzman ‏@renestutzman 30m
Sybrina Fulton & Tracy Martin walk toward c-room on Day 9 of #GeorgeZimmerman's murder trial. #TrayvonMartin. Day's proceedings @ 9a.
 Retweeted by Jeff Weiner
 from Sanford, FL

 Orlando Sentinel ‏@orlandosentinel 25m
Watch the #GeorgeZimmerman trial, join our chat and follow @renestutzman and @JeffWeinerOS http://thesent.nl/1949HRJ  #TrayvonMartin
 Retweeted by Jeff Weiner

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 49m
#GeorgeZimmerman jury selection stream links | Stream: http://bit.ly/11wpinH  Stream & chat: http://bit.ly/14WdTOW  #TrayvonMartin

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 51m
@TrayTillEmMar Good morning, and thanks for following! Court starts 9 a.m. EST, so I guess 3 a.m. for you.
 View conversation

 tvguyhal ‏@tvguyhal 53m
George Zimmerman: How did the prosecutor do? http://goo.gl/fb/LaH6h
 Retweeted by Jeff Weiner
 View summary

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 54m
My #GeorgeZimmerman TweetDeck column is full of tweets about the fired Men's Wearhouse guy. That's George ZIMMER guys, not Zimmerman.

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 1h
Yesterday in the #GeorgeZimmerman trial | Jurors questioned about law: http://bit.ly/16J8w9r  Photos: http://bit.ly/11PInBh  #TrayvonMartin
 View summary

 Gary W. Green ‏@garywgreen 1h
Waiting outside courtroom 5D for George Zimmerman trial. #georgezimmerman #trayvonmartin #osphoto… http://instagram.com/p/ax8HQnyBhe/
 Retweeted by Jeff Weiner
 from Sanford, FL

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 1h
Zimmerman trial: Jury selection continues at 9 a.m. | Story we'll update today: http://bit.ly/11PHPLM  #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin
 View summary

[grace-land]

June 20, 2013 Tweets

https://twitter.com/KBelichWFTV

Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV  1m 
#Zimmerman is presumed innocent until proven guilty and the judge overruled the state's objection saying you are presumed innocent.

Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV  1m 
The state has already objected twice once for defense calling #Zimmerman George for which he apologized and again for saying 1/2

Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV  4m 
The defense says he too represents people of Florida just individually. He takes issue with labels of defendant and victim. #Zimmermanon9

Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV  8m 
Defense has started by talking about how this process is almost more critical than the evidence. #Zimmermanon9

Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV  23m 
Court is back in session. Both families are here again today as the defense begins questioning the potential jurors. #Zimmermanon9

[MuffyBee]

June 20, 2013 Tweets Cont.
https://twitter.com/jeffweineros

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 1m
B-35: "I believe that a person is innocent until proven guilty," state must prove case. #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 2m
5 jurors said they have lived places without American system's presumption of innocence. #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 3m
H-69: Lived in South America. Where she was, if accused "it's very difficult for you to prove otherwise." #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 5m
Zimmerman trial: Jury selection continues today | Updated story: http://bit.ly/11POk1c  #TrayvonMartin #GeorgeZimmerman
 View summary

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 6m
@ahrcanum 6 jurors, 4 alternates.
 View conversation

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 7m
O'Mara: #GeorgeZimmerman presumed innocent. What would be verdict today? K-95: "It would be not guilty." #TrayvonMartin

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 9m
O'Mara: Feelings on the word defendant? B-51: Implies someone is "already in the wrong." #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 10m
O'Mara: Like the prosecution, I represent the people of the state of FL, "I just do it individually." #TrayvonMartin #GeorgeZimmerman

[MuffyBee]

June 20, 2013 Tweets Cont.
https://twitter.com/jeffweineros

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 1m
O'Mara demonstrates direct evidence: Jurors can see him holding iPad. Eyewitnesses. #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 3m
@mushroomfeet I'm sorry, it's not working this morning. We're trying to fix it ASAP.
 View conversation

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 5m
O'Mara: What's an imaginary doubt? Juror: A doubt "that I just made up in my mind... not based in fact." #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 7m
O'Mara: What does speculate mean to you? E-54: "Speculate means I don't know all the facts." #TrayvonMartin #GeorgeZimmerman

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 9m
Ok with deciding if state has met burden? B-72: "That's the way the system works, I've never questioned it." #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

[grace-land]

June 20, 2013 Tweets cont

https://twitter.com/KBelichWFTV

Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV  2m 
Potential jurors are discussing direct versus circumstantial evidence. #Zimmermanon9

Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV  7m 
Defense says he disagrees with the state that circumstantial evidence is as good as direct evidence. #Zimmermanon9

[grace-land]

June 20, 2013 Tweets cont

https://twitter.com/yamiche

Christina Vazquez Christina Vazquez ‏@VazquezReports  18m 
6 jurors - 4 alternates “@ahrcanum: @VazquezReports @Yamiche @JeffWeinerOS How many jurors will be seated, how many alternatives? Tyia.”
 Retweeted by Yamiche Alcindor

[grace-land]

June 20, 2013 Tweets cont

https://twitter.com/KBelichWFTV

Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV  50s 
The defense asks what they would do if they have an abiding conviction of guilt but it's wavering. The state objected. #Zimmermanon9
 
Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV  5m 
The defense used the state's example of circumstantial evidence and said if he prosecuted that case he could have been wrong. #Zimmermanon9

[MuffyBee]

June 20, 2013 Tweets Cont.
https://twitter.com/jeffweineros

Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 38s
Our video feed is back up! Watch live: http://bit.ly/11wpinH  Chat: http://bit.ly/14WdTOW  #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 1m
@DatDudeEasy Thanks!
 View conversation

 We want Easy ‏@DatDudeEasy 2m
Y'all need to follow @JeffWeinerOS for all the details on the Zimmerman case. Dude is solid!
 Retweeted by Jeff Weiner
 View conversation

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 1m
O'Mara now discussing difference between civil, criminal burden of proof. #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 4m
#GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin: Here's the jury instruction on reasonable doubt, much discussed this (cont) http://tl.gd/n_1rku5be

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 5m
G-63: Can't have "abiding" belief in guilt if it's also "wavering." Doesn't like that aspect of instruction. #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 7m
@mushroomfeet The court isn't doing it, the issue's on our end.
 View conversation

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 8m
Judge Nelson reads the jury instruction for reasonable doubt, after state objection on O'Mara's questioning. #GeorgeZImmerman #TrayvonMartin

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 9m
Zimmerman trial: Jury selection continues today | Updated story: http://bit.ly/104Sogw  #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin
 View summary

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 13m
B-29: Can't make a decision "on anything until you hear everything." #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 15m
@Mikkatiger Yes, we're having problems with the stream today. We're working on fixing it.
 View conversation

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 15m
O'Mara: What if case is entirely circumstantial: Juror: "Innocent if it's just based on circumstantial." #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 15m
Zimmerman trial: Jury selection continues today | Updated story: http://bit.ly/104RLnk  #GeorgeZImmerman #TrayvonMartin
 View summary

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 18m
O'Mara: Circumstantial evidence doesn't necessarily rule out "a reasonable hypothesis... of innocence." #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 20m
E-40 on circumstantial, direct evidence: "Both types of evidence are important." Others favor direct. #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

[MuffyBee]

June 20, 2013 Tweets Cont.
https://twitter.com/jeffweineros

Rene Stutzman ‏@renestutzman 1m
Big laugh: juror I-5, military vet formerly in Alaska, gets confused and gives wrong juror number. (At this point, we'll laugh at anything.)
 Retweeted by Jeff Weiner
 from Sanford, FL 

 Valerie Boey ‏@vboey 1m
B7 says there's a higher standard in criminal case because there's more on the line.#fox35
 Retweeted by Jeff Weiner

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 1m
Juror: Higher standard in criminal case, there's "more on the line." He's not comfortable with that. #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

[grace-land]

June 29, 2013 Tweets cont

https://twitter.com/KBelichWFTV

Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV  1m 
Some of the jurors have served on juries in civil cases where the standard of proof is lower. #Zimmermanon9
 
Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV  3m 
The defense is asking people about the lower standard of proof in civil cases (51/49) versus beyond reasonable doubt.  #Zimmermanon9

Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV  5m 
A big laugh when I-5 forgot his number and called himself I-29 and defense joked about whether he was a stealth juror. #Zimmermanon9

Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV  8m 
To come up with their own definition of abiding. 2/2 #Zimmermanon9

WFTV Eyewitness News WFTV Eyewitness News ‏@WFTV  10m 
CHAT: Join 800+ people logged on and chatting w/us now during #Zimmermanon9: http://at.wftv.com/14ORrY3  @coveritlive
 Retweeted by Kathi Belich, WFTV 
  Expand     

Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV  9m 
One juror is pointing out the possible contradiction of a wavering but abiding conviction and the defense says they have 1/2 #Zimmermanon9

Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV  12m 
The judge is reading to jurors the law.. About reasonable doubt and said what the defense said about it. #Zimmermanon9