Natalee Case Discussion #714 1/20 - 1/25/08

[Tylergal]

The update from the Persistence says they had "unbelievable" cell phone coverage. I find that interesting when applied to the night Natalee went missing.

My son who is not a salesman for cell phones but who is in the business, said all along they probably had good cell phone capability but I was skeered to mention it here for fear of being lambasted.

[Tamikosmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/english/    01/23/2008

Timeline Beth does not tally 

WILLEMSTAD/ORANJESTAD – Mother of Natalee Holloway, Beth has given incorrect information on the time she arrived in Aruba with a private jet on May 30, 2005.  This was not around 23:00, as she had said up till now – also in her book published late last year – but already at 19:45, says Alberto G. before the camera of the Curacao TV-producer Renée Gielen,  who is working on a documentary on the disappearance of the American teenage girl, and interviewed G. on this subject this morning. 

At that time, Alberto G. (Amigoe knows his name but he wants to stay anonymous out of precaution) worked on the part of the airport of Aruba where private airplanes park.  He was the first person that met Beth Twitty at the bottom of the aircraft steps, after he had piloted the aircraft in.   After that, he became the family’s guide for some time. 

He now says that he will change his earlier declaration before the police and give a new one.  He was mistaken.  Last week’s statements of the Americans Dan Young and Kelly Castillo, who call themselves ‘investigators’, made him decide to check some things again.   

Later that evening on May 30, 2005, he punched out a little after 22:00.  He thinks that that must have been the reason why he was wrong about the time.  He confirms the authenticity of Young and Castillo’s computer printout that show that Beth had already arrived at 19:45.

It is not clear why Beth had lied about her arrival time.  Whether the police have realized that the indicated arrival time does not tally, is not known.  Former chief of police Gerold Dompig told the newspaper earlier that the police had indeed investigated the timeline at that time – flight data and air movements – and that the air traffic control in Curacao had also sent them information. 

This proofs the soundness of Beth’s insinuations: “She must have known more”, says Gielen.  This would also appear from another declaration of Alberto G., who repeats what Young and Castillo said, namely that at first, Beth had posters with her, saying: ‘Please call me, hootie. I miss you and love you. Mom is here on Aruba and I really want to talk to you. Please call me on my local cell.’  The poster was signed with ‘Big hootie’.  Gielen says that this puts things in a different light.  “Beth’s timeline does not tally and she knew more.”

The trolls must have gotten to Alberto Groeneveldt ... the trolls who are obviously working on a misinformation campaign which will shift the focus of attention off of Joran and Paulus and ... shift the focus of attention onto the family of Natalee Holloway.

Beth shares in LOVING NATALEE ... for seven hours immediately following Jug and her arrival on the Island of Aruba ... Alberto Groeneveldt was on their side.  The assistance that Alberto Groeneveldt and Claudio Stamper provided was nothing short of a miracle.

According to Beth in LOVING NATALEE ... two of the handlers (Alberto Groeneveldt and  Claudio Stamper) left for a period of time following the 1:30 AM gas station meeting with Charles Croes ... a period of time when Jug and her were viewing casino videos.  In this period of time ... the handlers were able to find out Joran's last name ... locate the VDS' residence.  At the VDS' residence Deepak's vehicle was observed inside the gate and ... the tag number was recorded.

Janet

++++++++++

Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 44

Back at the Holiday Inn we again ask management about watching the video of their blackjack tables to see what Joran looks like.  This time the hotel manger finds someone to show us the tapes.  Jug and I will view the tapes while the handlers volunteer to hit the streets to see what they can learn.

It takes about an hour to facilitate seeing the security footage.  Scrolling through the videos we see images of Jug's nephew Thomas, and immediately call him.

Over the phone we tell him what we see.  He begins to describe Joran and where he is sitting.  And bingo, there he is.  Now we have a mental picture of him to  go with his first name.

Excited, Jug and I run down the stairs from the casino toward the lobby and almost collide with the handlers, Alberto and Claudio, as they run into the lobby toward the front desk.  Alberto is waving a piece of paper.  "We have him!  We have him and the car!"  The two of them are as exhilarated as we are.  They have Joran's last name.  It's van der Sloot.  And they have his address.

Alberto and Claudio went to the location, looked over the fences, and there it was.  A silver-gray Honda with big tailpipes and fancy features, just like the students had described.  They wrote down the license plat number and the address.  On the piece of paper is everything we need: the name of Joran van der Sloot, his address, and the tag number.

[SunnyinTX]

Hi all.

All this talk about Charles C has me thinking about that initial interview he did with Greta.  Remember how alot of it was edited out?  Remember how we all felt that he knew more just from what we heard and said we'd love to hear the whole thing?

At the time we ASSumed there was info that would be used in court and so we couldn't hear it... well... Greta has the interview.  Why doesn't she show it?!!!  It might answer some questions.  Oh yeah.. and Greta could have some good ratings for a night too.   

I agree, there's more to the CC story than what we know.

Hi Beans!! I remember that interview very well.....and have always felt he knows more than he has told....Why...is he scared? Was he threatened? Is he afraid of what HE might lose if he talks?  Again my gut tells me someone 'got to him' very early on...

[private eye]

Hi all.

All this talk about Charles C has me thinking about that initial interview he did with Greta.  Remember how alot of it was edited out?  Remember how we all felt that he knew more just from what we heard and said we'd love to hear the whole thing?

At the time we ASSumed there was info that would be used in court and so we couldn't hear it... well... Greta has the interview.  Why doesn't she show it?!!!  It might answer some questions.  Oh yeah.. and Greta could have some good ratings for a night too.   

I agree, there's more to the CC story than what we know.

Didn't he allude to the fact that there was a lot he couldn't say about what happened once?

[Tylergal]

Remember the DEA agent is the one that drove to that gas station tomeet with Charles Croes...why the gas station?  Why not the lobby of the hotel?  He is also the one that asked Beth to remain in the car at the Sloots.

Maybe it was Charles Croes who insisted they meet at the gas station.
One needs to wonder after he met with Beth at the gas station he was gone from approx 12:45 until he meets up with them to go to van der Sloots house at 2:30-3:00.

Where was Charlie for 1 1/2? Hmmmm - could it be he was at his friends house Paulus (Paulus said his IFA member's were friends helping him). the beach from the gas station is only 5 minutes away.

According to Sandra K, he spent time in jail for being naked on the beach, and based on his poetry and things she has said, he sounds more the gentle stalker than the telephone man.

[Frijole]

Hi all.

All this talk about Charles C has me thinking about that initial interview he did with Greta.  Remember how alot of it was edited out?  Remember how we all felt that he knew more just from what we heard and said we'd love to hear the whole thing?

At the time we ASSumed there was info that would be used in court and so we couldn't hear it... well... Greta has the interview.  Why doesn't she show it?!!!  It might answer some questions.  Oh yeah.. and Greta could have some good ratings for a night too.   

I agree, there's more to the CC story than what we know.

Didn't he allude to the fact that there was a lot he couldn't say about what happened once?

To be honest, I can't remember!  I just remember it was very early on in the case. It appeared he knew a lot - obviously he was there that first night and heard things firsthand.  So much was bleeped out by Fox.  They have the tape.  Play it!

[Lala'sMom]

Charles Croes interview....not sure if it's all there.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78M65rFEPQ

[Tamikosmom]

Hi all.

All this talk about Charles C has me thinking about that initial interview he did with Greta.  Remember how alot of it was edited out?  Remember how we all felt that he knew more just from what we heard and said we'd love to hear the whole thing?

At the time we ASSumed there was info that would be used in court and so we couldn't hear it... well... Greta has the interview.  Why doesn't she show it?!!!  It might answer some questions.  Oh yeah.. and Greta could have some good ratings for a night too.   

I agree, there's more to the CC story than what we know.

Didn't he allude to the fact that there was a lot he couldn't say about what happened once?

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?p=18418
June 2, 2005

There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications.

It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you.

I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved.

I wish all of us strength

charles
arubafastphones.com


+++++++++

Charles Croes
Vanity Fair Article
June 2, 2006

http://www.vanityfair.com/commentary/content/printables/060102roco01?print=true

"They're killing Aruba," says Aruban businessman Charles Croes, a former ally. "That girl, Natalee, I wish she'd stayed home. I hope she's found alive there. Because no one would care. No one. The kid is just not worth all this trouble, this heartache. Is Natalee worth it? Is she?"


+++++++++++++++


Jug Twitty
NANCY GRACE
October 3, 2005

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/03/ng.01.html

J. TWITTY: Oh, yeah. And they talk four different languages down there. So first of all, there is one gentleman who, if somebody would go back and get Charles Cruse (ph), who was with us that night and who spoke to them away from us for about 10 minutes with the uniformed officers, before he came over and translated what Joran said to us -- and Joran speaks all the languages too. But Charles Cruse (ph), in my mind, holds a lot of keys to what happened that night, or what Joran said

[Tamikosmom]

Charles Croes interview....not sure if it's all there.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78M65rFEPQ

Thank you Lala'sMom.

I will check later.

Janet

[Frijole]

Charles Croes interview....not sure if it's all there.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78M65rFEPQ

Let me be more specific - Greta should show the WHOLE thing - without the editing... she said they spoke for some time but it wasn't that long of an interview and she said some things that he shared could not be shown so as not to jeopardize the case... well, there "aint' no case" so I'd like to see it.  I bet we could come up with a few discrepancies.  Might shed light on some things.  Just throwing it out there as something that hasn't been investigated.  Maybe Beth can get a copy of it?

[2NJSons_Mom]

Hi all.

All this talk about Charles C has me thinking about that initial interview he did with Greta.  Remember how alot of it was edited out?  Remember how we all felt that he knew more just from what we heard and said we'd love to hear the whole thing?

At the time we ASSumed there was info that would be used in court and so we couldn't hear it... well... Greta has the interview.  Why doesn't she show it?!!!  It might answer some questions.  Oh yeah.. and Greta could have some good ratings for a night too.   

I agree, there's more to the CC story than what we know.

That CC interview & editing has always stuck in my 'craw'...is that the right way to say it?       I am not optimistic that it will be aired by Greta, though.

[Lala'sMom]

Charles Croes interview....not sure if it's all there.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78M65rFEPQ

Let me be more specific - Greta should show the WHOLE thing - without the editing... she said they spoke for some time but it wasn't that long of an interview and she said some things that he shared could not be shown so as not to jeopardize the case... well, there "aint' no case" so I'd like to see it.  I bet we could come up with a few discrepancies.  Might shed light on some things.  Just throwing it out there as something that hasn't been investigated.  Maybe Beth can get a copy of it?

I knew what you meant...that was the best I could do for you at the time. 

[Frijole]

Hi all.

All this talk about Charles C has me thinking about that initial interview he did with Greta.  Remember how alot of it was edited out?  Remember how we all felt that he knew more just from what we heard and said we'd love to hear the whole thing?

At the time we ASSumed there was info that would be used in court and so we couldn't hear it... well... Greta has the interview.  Why doesn't she show it?!!!  It might answer some questions.  Oh yeah.. and Greta could have some good ratings for a night too.   

I agree, there's more to the CC story than what we know.

That CC interview & editing has always stuck in my 'craw'...is that the right way to say it?       I am not optimistic that it will be aired by Greta, though.

You are right but it would be investigative journalism than what she currently shows.... she's become a "TMZ wannabe"... very little news.  I would still try to get my hands on the FILM from the interview if I were Beth.  Certainly JQK could take a peek at them. 

[Frijole]

I knew what you meant...that was the best I could do for you at the time. 

Oops... then thanks dear Lalas! 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Hi all.

All this talk about Charles C has me thinking about that initial interview he did with Greta.  Remember how alot of it was edited out?  Remember how we all felt that he knew more just from what we heard and said we'd love to hear the whole thing?

At the time we ASSumed there was info that would be used in court and so we couldn't hear it... well... Greta has the interview.  Why doesn't she show it?!!!  It might answer some questions.  Oh yeah.. and Greta could have some good ratings for a night too.   

I agree, there's more to the CC story than what we know.

That CC interview & editing has always stuck in my 'craw'...is that the right way to say it?       I am not optimistic that it will be aired by Greta, though.

You are right but it would be investigative journalism than what she currently shows.... she's become a "TMZ wannabe"... very little news.  I would still try to get my hands on the FILM from the interview if I were Beth.  Certainly JQK could take a peek at them. 

I agree, Beans..and I'm sorry that I was away for a while...this computer is shared with family and I sometimes have to move on to other things..

[2NJSons_Mom]

I want to add that I was always wondering what was said during the interview that had to be edited....and why was it edited?  Did he ask for the statements made to be edited, or was it a legal obligatioion that Greta had to agree to....the editing was so obvious, that it stayed with me, as it must be the same for others.  Just my random thoughts, here. 

[dennisintn]

I want to add that I was always wondering what was said during the interview that had to be edited....and why was it edited?  Did he ask for the statements made to be edited, or was it a legal obligatioion that Greta had to agree to....the editing was so obvious, that it stayed with me, as it must be the same for others.  Just my random thoughts, here. 

seems like all the good old boys down there want editing rights.  i guess they're afraid they might utter a truthful statement sometime and get thrown out of the club or something.
dennisintn

[2NJSons_Mom]

I want to add that I was always wondering what was said during the interview that had to be edited....and why was it edited?  Did he ask for the statements made to be edited, or was it a legal obligatioion that Greta had to agree to....the editing was so obvious, that it stayed with me, as it must be the same for others.  Just my random thoughts, here. 

seems like all the good old boys down there want editing rights.  i guess they're afraid they might utter a truthful statement sometime and get thrown out of the club or something.
dennisintn

This seems to be the case, dennisintn....it just didn't sit right when I saw it.  There had to be something said that couldn't be made public...but, what?

[Kat_Gram]

Question : DId they ever do any tests on the Gottenbos boat ?
If not, why ?
Dompig thought early on that that boat was used.

[wreck]

Question : DId they ever do any tests on the Gottenbos boat ?
If not, why ?
Dompig thought early on that that boat was used.

Dompig 'thinks' a lot of different things.............depends on what audience he is addressing.