Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, Missing 6/16/08 Orlando FL (Remains Found) #85

[Orchidwmn]

I just can't understand it. It says something about Cindy as a mother, that Casey's things were still around, and in perfect condition, when Caylee came along. She didn't throw them out or sell them like most parents would have done. She must really have loved having kids that age.

Yes it does, and as much as I hate to admit it, it says something nice. Especially in Florida, where most houses don't have basements, and storage is at a premium. After all that has happened, I have a hard time thinking nice things about Cindy. (I am sorry to say)

My mom saved our favorite toys, and still has a laundry basket full of my brothers toys at her house for his kids to play with. Our favorites she gave to us when we moved out along with our baby book, first Christmas dress etc. She still has my baby bed, even though we have explained that the rails are too far apart and that there were no rules in 1964, but to no avail. But she is the best mom any kid could have ever wanted. (No I am not prejudiced)   

I just try to put myself in Casey's head, and I see her as so mean, selfish and evil, that I can't see her finding joy in what most of us would.

[Fuzzball]

I wish one of our "head doctors" would help us out with this.  But here goes my "armchair theory" of the dynamics of the family.

George has a very bad temper.  Cindy works with the kids as a conspiracy to keep things from him that will "upset" him.  Thus, he doesn't know half the things going on.  She also criticizes him to the kids...no job, lazy, houseboy, not a man, on line gambling, screws around, tells him "stop being a detective", etc.  So they have no respect for him and thinks he is a buffoon (which he is).  Now Cindy carefully "lets him in on" some things when she wants him to "blow up". (Like go to the school and pitch a fit to let Casey graduate with the class even though she is half a credit short). 

I think the locks on the sheds were not put there because of Caylee, but because of Casey.  We have locks on our sheds also, but we don't carry the key around with us, nor hide the damn key!  We hang them on a wall somewhere so that when someone in the household needs to go in the shed...they won't have to break the locks to do so.  George got tired of her constantly stealing the gas and never replacing it...so voila...locks with no "handy" keys.

Now, I think George said...enough is enough...we are going to start making her responsible!  Cindy already caught her lying about going to work with the "No Clothes Party" picture..."Oh, so you were working, huh?"  So, no baby sitting, no free gas and whatever else George knew about and COULD FIND OUT.

On the 24th, he goes to cut the grass...sees the lock broken and gas cans missing.  HE CALLS THE POLICE AND FILES A THEFT REPORT.  Then he calls Cindy and tells her AFTER he did it.  Then Cindy calls Casey and tells her..."You are in trouble now...your Dad filed a police report about the gas cans, you better get your a$$ home and give them back now!!!!"  Voila....up pops Casey with the gas cans.

My theory Du Jour.  Thanks, Bev

I think you nailed it. Except I think maybe the shed was locked to hide something George keeps in there. Maybe a little grass in there with the grass clippers...that sort of thing. I totally buy the dynamic of George never knowing anything because he's got such a bad temper everyone's learned to hide stuff from him. That was our family, too.

It's easy to keep things from an alcoholic/gambler/addict because they really don't care what other people are thinking or feeling anyway--it's all about them and their addiction of choice.

[Fuzzball]

I just can't understand it. It says something about Cindy as a mother, that Casey's things were still around, and in perfect condition, when Caylee came along. She didn't throw them out or sell them like most parents would have done. She must really have loved having kids that age.

Yes it does, and as much as I hate to admit it, it says something nice. Especially in Florida, where most houses don't have basements, and storage is at a premium. After all that has happened, I have a hard time thinking nice things about Cindy. (I am sorry to say)

My mom saved our favorite toys, and still has a laundry basket full of my brothers toys at her house for his kids to play with. Our favorites she gave to us when we moved out along with our baby book, first Christmas dress etc. She still has my baby bed, even though we have explained that the rails are too far apart and that there were no rules in 1964, but to no avail. But she is the best mom any kid could have ever wanted. (No I am not prejudiced)   

I just try to put myself in Casey's head, and I see her as so mean, selfish and evil, that I can't see her finding joy in what most of us would.

Judging from the pictures she even found a lot of joy in Caylee, right up until she didn't one day.

[mgoblue]

can someone explain this "bucket list" te me?

[klaasend]

can someone explain this "bucket list" te me?

I haven't read all the posts, but this is the only Bucket List I'm aware of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bucket_List

[Orchidwmn]

can someone explain this "bucket list" te me?

The Bucket List was a 2007 movie with Jack Nicholson and Morgan Freeman about two terminally ill cancer patients, who basically went out and did all kinds of wild things before they kicked the bucket.

It is now being used as an expression that Casey may have had such a list, or was at least living like it after she killed Caylee.

[Bearlyhere]

BooMonkey... I really believe Casey thought LE was going to believe her during the interviews, let her go, and search high and low for the nanny, and everything was going to be okay. She has been lying for years and getting away with it why would this be different? Lee moving in with dad and mom, seems to me this is easier, so when he is arrested, mom and dad would not have to clean out his rental house.

No Rose, this is what gets me. Casey really thought she could get away with this? She watched enough crime drama TV, movies etc to know at least there was a big chance she would pay dearly for this crime. I  don't mean to add more drama, G-d knows. I guess it's so hard to imagine being so trivial about murdering and going out to party. 

A friend of JJ's had an excellent idea about that. He thinks the partying, tattoo, etc...were part of a "bucket list"--things to do before you kick the bucket. Casey didn't know if she'd get away with it or not--she could be facing death, and so she went around doing what she'd do if she only had a week or two to live.  She was probably pretty euphoric, which jibes with the "annoyingly giddy" behavior friends noticed in her. When people know they are going to die they often are euphoric because none of their problems matter anymore. They no longer have to face the future or come up with solutions--all they have to do is live for today.

Someone I knew well acted that way before he committed suicide.  I hear that is something that happens then, also.

[Bearlyhere]

I was looking for the book Suppertime for Frieda Fuzzypaws, and found it interesting that it was published in 1991, and is currently out of print. Casey would have been five when the book came out, so I would say it is an old book, not something they recently got. There is one available used on Amazon for $120, the price may be partially due to the case, of course, but it was the only one I found for sale. 

But given this information, I would say this book was probably Casey's book, and something Cindy had saved.  Just like the doll "mama" that was Casey's doll as well.

I just wonder what Casey actually thought about Caylee having HER toys. Casey is just so selfish I can't imagine that she thought it was "cool" that her child loved the same things she had as a child. I just see her being pissed off that Cindy was treating Caylee the way she "used to treat her"????

I see jealousy over Caylee as one of the motives that Casey killed her. Not the only one, but definitely one.

I just can't understand it. It says something about Cindy as a mother, that Casey's things were still around, and in perfect condition, when Caylee came along. She didn't throw them out or sell them like most parents would have done. She must really have loved having kids that age.

Why were they in such perfect condition?  Didn't she play with her toys?

[Orchidwmn]

Why were they in such perfect condition?  Didn't she play with her toys?

She may have just played nicely with them.  The monkey in my avatar is one of my very favorite stuffed animals. His thumb is missing since I bit it off since I was mad about the "no thumb sucking rule" (at about 4) but he is still around!!!!

[mgoblue]

can someone explain this "bucket list" te me?

The Bucket List was a 2007 movie with Jack Nicholson and Morgan Freeman about two terminally ill cancer patients, who basically went out and did all kinds of wild things before they kicked the bucket.

It is now being used as an expression that Casey may have had such a list, or was at least living like it after she killed Caylee.

Got it. Thanks.  And it does make some sense.

[Fuzzball]

Happy New Year everybody - just a quick post here as I've got to go run errands.

I still cannot be of the opinion that George or Cin Cin were in the dark regarding what may have befallen Caylee on the evening of the 15th, as the natural reaction would have been for them to have called LE while still at the towyard upon smelling that odor. 

George even remarked about his relief to the tow yard man that it wasn't his daughter or grandaughter in there once the car was opened.  But, he had already expressed his distress to the towyard man that his daughter [ and I think grandaughter ] had been nowhere to be found for quite sometime. 

So, if he is really ignorant of their fate & whereabouts, he would have become very frightened at the odor on the spot and would have immediately contacted LE from the towyard for help, in my opinion.   This has always nagged me and speaks volumes.  And then we hear Lee's amusement at his father having to drive the stinky car home - we don't hear any natural concern  [ regarding  the cause of the odor ] from Lee either.  Did all three already know everything ?  Was everything simply a public 'cover your rear' charade beginning with those 911 calls ?  Things do not add up starting then, imo.

IMO they all suspected Casey was guilty, but none of them could prove it. I think all of them half hoped she wasn't, and that eventually it would turn out that the decomp in the car was a dog she had hit while joyriding, and meant to bury and forgot about. Or a guy who tried to rape &  kill her and Caylee and she killed him a la Thelma & Louise, and rode around with him in the trunk awhile trying to think what to do before throwing him in the river....or anything, anything but Caylee.

George would have become frightened at the odor, sure, but he also mentioned thinking that Casey finally ripped off the wrong guy....IMO he may have thought there were bigger forces involved, like Mafia, corrupt LE, and/or gangs, and that LE would be useless against that kind of thing anyway. He couldn't prove Casey did it, and he didn't want to be stuck with an acquitted Casey in the house who had a vendetta against him and the family.

Lee & Cindy, IMO, suspected Casey was guilty, but when they thought about what it would be like if they cooperated with LE and then Casey was acquitted, or what it would be like if Casey had a large violent gang of child pornographers and drug dealers on her side against them, they decided to play it safe, because they did NOT have any solid proof against Casey. They didn't know where the body was.

Cindy got the friends together to work on the timeline and make sure they were "all on the same page emotionally." She "didn't want to lose another one," and she didn't want to believe what was happening was even possible, and she was ready to believe that whatever was in the trunk, it wasn't Caylee. She convinced herself that Casey didn't kill Caylee, and went into deep denial. Unconsciously she actually tried to tell on Casey. The whole family in between the lines is pumping Casey for information and she knows it.

She decides she doesn't want to see Lee anymore, because he keeps calling her on her lies. She tells him in code where the body is hoping he'll move the body, but he doesn't. She decides he's on the side of LE. Which he probably IS.

I've always known the pool ladder story was a complete fabrication. And I think they told that whopper to let Casey see they were "on her side." They're supporting her 100%. But they'll say RIGHT IN FRONT OF LP, that they ought to give the wrong hairbrush, so Casey will hear and know how loyal they are.

I don't think any of them want Casey free. They just don't want her dead.

[Orchidwmn]

Good night monkeys!!!vv

[Fuzzball]

BooMonkey... I really believe Casey thought LE was going to believe her during the interviews, let her go, and search high and low for the nanny, and everything was going to be okay. She has been lying for years and getting away with it why would this be different? Lee moving in with dad and mom, seems to me this is easier, so when he is arrested, mom and dad would not have to clean out his rental house.

No Rose, this is what gets me. Casey really thought she could get away with this? She watched enough crime drama TV, movies etc to know at least there was a big chance she would pay dearly for this crime. I  don't mean to add more drama, G-d knows. I guess it's so hard to imagine being so trivial about murdering and going out to party. 

A friend of JJ's had an excellent idea about that. He thinks the partying, tattoo, etc...were part of a "bucket list"--things to do before you kick the bucket. Casey didn't know if she'd get away with it or not--she could be facing death, and so she went around doing what she'd do if she only had a week or two to live.  She was probably pretty euphoric, which jibes with the "annoyingly giddy" behavior friends noticed in her. When people know they are going to die they often are euphoric because none of their problems matter anymore. They no longer have to face the future or come up with solutions--all they have to do is live for today.

Someone I knew well acted that way before he committed suicide.  I hear that is something that happens then, also.

Wasn't going to mention that, Bearlyhere, but yes, that happens too. Sorry for your loss.

[Wyks]

Thank you for posting this, luckycharmsprincess.  Very well written and makes it easier for everyone to understand. 

I'd like to ask you something.  Do you think that Casey might be a malignant narcissist?  Have been pondering that. 

Hi Wyks,

I wanted to tell you that your earlier post a few pages ago is right on the money. I have not witnessed the 'Switch' in any of the communication we've seen or heard.

I do think that she has Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and very possible Malignant Narcissist Personality as she exhibits all of the symptoms and (I'm only speculating here) may have been plotting to kill George and Cindy...and whoever else got in her way. Casey told Amy that George had suffered a stroke. She told Amy she would have 15k in the bank soon and led her to believe they were going to be roomates. She told other friends that Cindy was moving into a condo without George. So, I've always believed that Casey was going to also kill Cindy and George. The neck-breaking search bothered me. Caylee probably weighed maybe 30*35 lbs, so any sort of physical assualt to her frame would have caused damage, so why she was searching this is interesting to me. Since murder, serial murder is a piece of this disorder, it is very likely she suffers from it rather than Psychopathy.

She has the grandiose mentality, paranoid behaviors, social cohesiveness with her 'friends' and absence of conscience. I think as more information comes out on whether or not this was pre-medidated, we might have our answers then.

, Good posts!

Thank you!  And thanks for addressing this as well.    At first I went back and forth on trying to figure out what Casey might have, or be.  Psychopathy was my first choice, until studying her further, when I could clearly see the NPD.  Yet it seems there is even more, which is why I began focusing on the MNP.  Both of which led me to start looking at Cindy, and wishing we knew more about Cindy's mother.  I've worked with a family member in another high-profile case, in trying to help the family understand the perp, because this guy has not been arrested yet and the family lives in constant fear of him.  Case study of the family tree in how family members behave and relate within the family and outside of it, has always fascinated me.  Not that anyone in the Anthony family seem to be concerned with understanding anything, seems they are consumed with denial, blame, and covering things up. 

I agree with your take on what Casey's future plans may have been.  Am surprised really that Cindy and George do not *seem* to be aware of the possibility that they could have been next.  One would think that the searches on their computer ought to have opened their eyes somewhat.  Would love to hear their explanation on why else Casey may have been searching for household weapons and self defense.  On the other hand, one wouldn't be needing self defense techniques against a 2 yr old child.  So it bears questioning, who those were intended for and why? 

Am glad you're here! 
   

[da sparkenator]

Just some general thoughts on the family dynamics in the Anthony family, my thoughts from the personal experience of my own family.  I see similarities between my family and the Anthonys.

In my own family, my sister (I'll call her Sarah) got pregnant when she was 17 and unmarried.  My parents gave her the choice of adopting the baby out or keeping the baby.  I don't know why, but Sarah kept the baby even though she still liked to party.  She would stay out all night and my parents would try to put their foot down but Sarah's behavior didn't change.  For the welfare of her daughter ("Sue"), my parents became the primary caretakers of the child. 

My parents were totally in love with "Sue".  While my parents felt that they failed Sarah (they were really ashamed of her sexual promiscuity, laziness, selfishness and dishonesty), they grew to love Sarah and dote on her.  It's almost as if they were making up for where they (felt they) went wrong with my sister.  I would say they even put "Sue" on a pedestal.

Sarah felt judged and trapped because of the pregnancy, and she was very jealous of the attention that Sue got.  (My sister, like Casey, was very self absorbed and a pathological lier.)

My sister passed away a few years ago . . . and although there was no physical violence between Sarah and her daughter, there was a lot of psychological abuse and emotional neglect.  They had not talked for 20 years before her death.  They never ever bonded, never had a mother/daughter relationship.

For a long time my parents had me convinced that my sister was a bad person because she got pregnant.  I now have empathy for my sister because I guess she was trapped into acting like she was someone she wasn't (she wasn't ready to be a parent).  However, I also realize that my sister was narcisstic and was quick to justify her selfish and dishonest behavior because she felt judged or trapped.

The biggest problem with Sarah was her lies.  Her behavior dominated the family.  The rest of us in the family (me included) enabled her behavior because she was downright scary when confronted or it just fell on deaf ears.

Of course I feel like Sarah is like Casey and Sue is like Caylee.  I identify with the dysfunction that affected the family and the way that for the most part no one confronted my sister or Casey.

I think Cindy put all her energies into Caylee and made her the center of her world and Casey resented it.  Where she may have gone wrong with Casey, she was making it all good with Caylee.

I am not excusing Casey's behavior.  If my sister was alive today, I would take her by the shoulders and shake her and try to get her to see the light so to speak.  But I know she would just do as she always did, tell bold faced impossible to believe lies and never hold herself accountable for her behavior.

I am at peace with my family dynamics (therefore, I am not telling you this for any kind of sympathy).  Understanding that many families have problems and being honest about my past has really contributed to my healing.  It is also helped that I have had a spiritual awakening through a 12 step recovery program.

By the way, no one would guess we were such a dysfunctional family . . . a lot of energy was spend on appearing to be normal!

Karen

[Bearlyhere]

BooMonkey... I really believe Casey thought LE was going to believe her during the interviews, let her go, and search high and low for the nanny, and everything was going to be okay. She has been lying for years and getting away with it why would this be different? Lee moving in with dad and mom, seems to me this is easier, so when he is arrested, mom and dad would not have to clean out his rental house.

No Rose, this is what gets me. Casey really thought she could get away with this? She watched enough crime drama TV, movies etc to know at least there was a big chance she would pay dearly for this crime. I  don't mean to add more drama, G-d knows. I guess it's so hard to imagine being so trivial about murdering and going out to party. 

A friend of JJ's had an excellent idea about that. He thinks the partying, tattoo, etc...were part of a "bucket list"--things to do before you kick the bucket. Casey didn't know if she'd get away with it or not--she could be facing death, and so she went around doing what she'd do if she only had a week or two to live.  She was probably pretty euphoric, which jibes with the "annoyingly giddy" behavior friends noticed in her. When people know they are going to die they often are euphoric because none of their problems matter anymore. They no longer have to face the future or come up with solutions--all they have to do is live for today.

Someone I knew well acted that way before he committed suicide.  I hear that is something that happens then, also.

Wasn't going to mention that, Bearlyhere, but yes, that happens too. Sorry for your loss.

Thank you!

[da sparkenator]

Hi Klaas, would you be so kind as to remove the last straggling words on my post.  There is a lot of space after my name and it says something like "it in this experience".

It must happened when trying to edit my writing.

Thank you!



OK?

[da sparkenator]

Hi Klaas, would you be so kind as to remove the last straggling words on my post.  There is a lot of space after my name and it says something like "it in this experience".

It must happened when trying to edit my writing.

Thank you!



OK?

Thank you Bearly!!!  In the words of the 3 stooges:  Poifect!

[Fuzzball]

OK being serious here, what, in reality, could CA, Ga and LA have done to obstruct justice? What FACTS do we have for real or reasonable? I know they are dumb asses but I don't want that added to the list. I just want to figure out what charges LE could possibly levee against them.

I have:

CA: Washing pants, knife from KC's car
LA: Possibly using funds from anything established to find Caylee for his own means.
GA: Possibly cleaning out the trunk of the car

Does it matter if cindy downright lies to LE?  Does that count for anything Boo?

Yes, that counts since it is currently several of the charges that her daughter is facing!

More:
CA: giving the wrong hairbrush to LE on purpose. Giving the wrong dates about when she last saw Caylee.

GA: the lies about chasing Casey in the car, the pool ladder, lying about the dates. Possibly cleaning the car, probably putting in those paving stones in the yard.

I don't think misappropriating funds comes under the heading of obstructing justice. I think it's just misappropriation of funds.

[da sparkenator]

OK being serious here, what, in reality, could CA, Ga and LA have done to obstruct justice? What FACTS do we have for real or reasonable? I know they are dumb asses but I don't want that added to the list. I just want to figure out what charges LE could possibly levee against them.

I have:

CA: Washing pants, knife from KC's car
LA: Possibly using funds from anything established to find Caylee for his own means.
GA: Possibly cleaning out the trunk of the car

Does it matter if cindy downright lies to LE?  Does that count for anything Boo?

Yes, that counts since it is currently several of the charges that her daughter is facing!

More:
CA: giving the wrong hairbrush to LE on purpose. Giving the wrong dates about when she last saw Caylee.

GA: the lies about chasing Casey in the car, the pool ladder, lying about the dates. Possibly cleaning the car, probably putting in those paving stones in the yard.

I don't think misappropriating funds comes under the heading of obstructing justice. I think it's just misappropriation of funds.

Beyond the lying, there is the omission of known facts.  Who knows what she knows that could have helped the investigation but she failed to step up to the plate.  You know, how she doesn't answer a question and goes off in another direction to confuse!