Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #36 11/21/10 - 12/05/10

[Rob]

I read Stanton's statement as being clear: "In Stanton's interview he says there's no physical evidence of Kyron or anyone linked to Kyron."    So, IMO, that means no glasses or letter because those would be evidence of "Kyron".

Yes, Stanton also said that they found evidence of "unrelated crimes".  I took that to mean crimes that are not related to Kyron.

- snipped -

I concur - They stumbled upon other crimes that were unsolved but unrelated to Kyron. That may be what solves this crime. Investigating another crime and finding out what happened to Kyron by accident.

[Puzzler]

Though the sheriff and his investigators won't comment on any suspects, it's clear from court documents and testimony in the couple's pending divorce case that Terri Horman remains at the center of their inquiry, as well as a handful of associates and friends of the stepmother, including DeDe Spicher.

Don't discard her as a suspect/accomplice in this. The bio family knows all about her.        Sassifrass can you explain what you mean, the bio family knows all about her, all about DeDe Spicher?

Even if the family knows all about DeDe and they believe there's something suspicious there - the point is that Stanton just said that there's no evidence of Kyron or anyone linked to him.

It's sad, but what we're hearing is that there's no concrete evidence.  Just like Stanton said in mid-September.  It's so frustrating to hear 2 1/2 months later that they still don't have the concrete evidence.  And the saddest part is that he doesn't know if they will even have enough for an arrest or an indictment by February.  He "hoping" to be able to name a suspect or other people involved, or something along that line.  So, what we now know is that there is no sealed indictment waiting for the DA's signature.  Depressing news. 

Another part of the interview it was stated that "unless" there is evidence that "unexpectedly" turns up, that this investigation is going to take months more (words to that effect).  Stanton even said this is a marathon and not a sprint.

This is heartbreaking news to me and I can't begin to imagine how hard this is for Kaine/Desiree.

[Puzzler]

I read Stanton's statement as being clear: "In Stanton's interview he says there's no physical evidence of Kyron or anyone linked to Kyron."    So, IMO, that means no glasses or letter because those would be evidence of "Kyron".

Yes, Stanton also said that they found evidence of "unrelated crimes".  I took that to mean crimes that are not related to Kyron.

- snipped -

I concur - They stumbled upon other crimes that were unsolved but unrelated to Kyron. That may be what solves this crime. Investigating another crime and finding out what happened to Kyron by accident.

I found this interview to have a lot of information disclosed...more than we've gotten in the past.

It was "not" the kind of information I wanted to hear, but at least we did find some things out.

Particularly disturbing to me was that they don't know if they will even have enough for an arrest or an indictment in February; that they're "hoping" to be able to name a suspect or another person involved, etc.  I take to to mean just that "hoping". 

Yes, Stanton also says he has "confidence".   Why not have confidence...they're still investigating.  He also said "hoping" and that doesn't sound so "confident" to me.

[no rose colored glasses]

The lie detector tests, this doesn't add up for me. First I don't believe in them and would never take one under any circumstances. But like some people think that Terri may be a sociopath, or simply a good liar, I have read that people that are both can pass one. What do people think about these lie detector tests? If that is all the police have on Terri that she failed two of them and walked out on a third, what does that really all mean? I know they have the supposed murder for hire, but again for me, he said, she said. Maybe she is responsible, maybe she and another are responsible, or maybe she just isn't responsible, for me I just don't really know. Guess will wait and find out.

[Puzzler]

Also, it was somewhat confusing to read about searches on Sauvie, particularly in the water and to juxtapose that against there is not one shred of evidence that Kyron is dead. 

[Puzzler]

The lie detector tests, this doesn't add up for me. First I don't believe in them and would never take one under any circumstances. But like some people think that Terri may be a sociopath, or simply a good liar, I have read that people that are both can pass one. What do people think about these lie detector tests? If that is all the police have on Terri that she failed two of them and walked out on a third, what does that really all mean? I know they have the supposed murder for hire, but again for me, he said, she said. Maybe she is responsible, maybe she and another are responsible, or maybe she just isn't responsible, for me I just don't really know. Guess will wait and find out.

IMO - it means that LE kept asking the same question(s) over-and-over for hours on end.  Once the questions had been repeatedly answered, it was ridiculous to keep putting oneself through that and so Terri walked out. 

I'm like you No Rose, I wouldn't take a poly either (based on all the cases we've followed).  I guess others would automatically "assume" you and I were guilty because we refused to take a poly.  ha.  Polys are not "evidence"; they're tools - tools that can been manipulated.

[Rob]

Also, it was somewhat confusing to read about searches on Sauvie, particularly in the water and to juxtapose that against there is not one shred of evidence that Kyron is dead. 

we're thinking along the same lines. Kyron is somewhere - that "somewhere" hasn't been identified to date. I refuse to believe that people simply dematerialize or vaporize.

In a sense, the investigation - to date, based on what WE know - has not produced anything tangible. All that has been produced is suspicions. 

it's hard for me to believe that after 6 months of investigating there is nothing. And further, is there nothing because they have focused on the wrong something for too long to the exclusion of the truth.

[no rose colored glasses]

The lie detector tests, this doesn't add up for me. First I don't believe in them and would never take one under any circumstances. But like some people think that Terri may be a sociopath, or simply a good liar, I have read that people that are both can pass one. What do people think about these lie detector tests? If that is all the police have on Terri that she failed two of them and walked out on a third, what does that really all mean? I know they have the supposed murder for hire, but again for me, he said, she said. Maybe she is responsible, maybe she and another are responsible, or maybe she just isn't responsible, for me I just don't really know. Guess will wait and find out.

IMO - it means that LE kept asking the same question(s) over-and-over for hours on end.  Once the questions had been repeatedly answered, it was ridiculous to keep putting oneself through that and so Terri walked out. 

I'm like you No Rose, I wouldn't take a poly either (based on all the cases we've followed).  I guess others would automatically "assume" you and I were guilty because we refused to take a poly.  ha.  Polys are not "evidence"; they're tools - tools that can been manipulated.

Well then let someone think I were guilty if I refused one, many believe it to be junk science, and I'm one of them.

[no rose colored glasses]

Also, it was somewhat confusing to read about searches on Sauvie, particularly in the water and to juxtapose that against there is not one shred of evidence that Kyron is dead. 

we're thinking along the same lines. Kyron is somewhere - that "somewhere" hasn't been identified to date. I refuse to believe that people simply dematerialize or vaporize.

In a sense, the investigation - to date, based on what WE know - has not produced anything tangible. All that has been produced is suspicions. 

it's hard for me to believe that after 6 months of investigating there is nothing. And further, is there nothing because they have focused on the wrong something for too long to the exclusion of the truth.

There is one more thing that for me doesn't make a lot of sense. Terri supposedly wrote emails to an extended family member, suggesting that she hated Kyron, and who knows what else. If a person does that, and then turns around and does harm to the child they are saying in emails they hate, does that make sense? Just don't get that.

[Rob]

Also, it was somewhat confusing to read about searches on Sauvie, particularly in the water and to juxtapose that against there is not one shred of evidence that Kyron is dead. 

we're thinking along the same lines. Kyron is somewhere - that "somewhere" hasn't been identified to date. I refuse to believe that people simply dematerialize or vaporize.

In a sense, the investigation - to date, based on what WE know - has not produced anything tangible. All that has been produced is suspicions. 

it's hard for me to believe that after 6 months of investigating there is nothing. And further, is there nothing because they have focused on the wrong something for too long to the exclusion of the truth.

There is one more thing that for me doesn't make a lot of sense. Terri supposedly wrote emails to an extended family member, suggesting that she hated Kyron, and who knows what else. If a person does that, and then turns around and does harm to the child they are saying in emails they hate, does that make sense? Just don't get that.

I could see how that could be taken - but I have not read the emails.

for instance; I could just strangle the lil brat for blankety blank...

or

If I could get away with killing him, I would.

sort of a difference.

[Puzzler]

Also, it was somewhat confusing to read about searches on Sauvie, particularly in the water and to juxtapose that against there is not one shred of evidence that Kyron is dead. 

we're thinking along the same lines. Kyron is somewhere - that "somewhere" hasn't been identified to date. I refuse to believe that people simply dematerialize or vaporize.

In a sense, the investigation - to date, based on what WE know - has not produced anything tangible. All that has been produced is suspicions. 

it's hard for me to believe that after 6 months of investigating there is nothing. And further, is there nothing because they have focused on the wrong something for too long to the exclusion of the truth.

Basically, what I'm getting out of this is that in September, Stanton was thinking that this was going to turn out as a cold case.  He said at that time "what we need is concrete evidence".  Also, "we've found out things we wish we didn't know" and "in the end I think you'll be surprised" (words to that effect).  In September...they had no evidence and Stanton thought it was going to turn into a cold case.

In December, Stanton "flat out" states they have no evidence linking to Kyron or anyone connected with Kyron.  He's not talking about "concrete" evidence...he said "no evidence".  So, if I believe him, then they've gained no evidence in six months.
IMO, there is no imminent arrest of "anyone".  Stanton just told us he has no evidence. Wow, just wow!

Stanton also says those first 6 hours of time that is forever lost were crucial and it has "hurt" the investigation.  I say that in all of those people at the school, that no one saw anything is extremely hard to believe.  That means, IMO, thay Kyron either vanished off the face of the earth (which I don't believe in) or someone snatched him into another room and quickly subdued him (i.e., stun gun) and he was either wished away in the midst of the morning's confusion with the science fair or hidden in the school and taken out at the end of the day. 

I also get the impression that during the investigation in Kyron's case, unrelated things were discovered.  I'm taking that to mean that those things are related to adults around Kyron - but not related to Kyron.  I still wonder if Kaine/Terri were involved in something they shouldn't have been and that involvement went sour  - the "result" being that Kyron then was a factor.  Does anyone else think this is a possibility?

However, Stanton says "no evidence" so maybe my above theory is off-base.

[Puzzler]

Also, it was somewhat confusing to read about searches on Sauvie, particularly in the water and to juxtapose that against there is not one shred of evidence that Kyron is dead. 

we're thinking along the same lines. Kyron is somewhere - that "somewhere" hasn't been identified to date. I refuse to believe that people simply dematerialize or vaporize.

In a sense, the investigation - to date, based on what WE know - has not produced anything tangible. All that has been produced is suspicions. 

it's hard for me to believe that after 6 months of investigating there is nothing. And further, is there nothing because they have focused on the wrong something for too long to the exclusion of the truth.

There is one more thing that for me doesn't make a lot of sense. Terri supposedly wrote emails to an extended family member, suggesting that she hated Kyron, and who knows what else. If a person does that, and then turns around and does harm to the child they are saying in emails they hate, does that make sense? Just don't get that.

I could see how that could be taken - but I have not read the emails.

for instance; I could just strangle the lil brat for blankety blank...

or

If I could get away with killing him, I would.

sort of a difference.

Also, while I realize that Terri probably is the author of those e-mails, I also wonder "how" would it be "proven" in a court of law that Terri was the one who actually typed those e-mails.  To say that the emails came from her computer or from her phone is not enough (phones can be cloned and others could have used her computer).

[no rose colored glasses]

That is why the context of the emails are important, sure we won't see the emails, but would like to see how the conversation went down.

[Puzzler]

That is why the context of the emails are important, sure we won't see the emails, but would like to see how the conversation went down.

Agree.

[Puzzler]

Also, it was somewhat confusing to read about searches on Sauvie, particularly in the water and to juxtapose that against there is not one shred of evidence that Kyron is dead. 

we're thinking along the same lines. Kyron is somewhere - that "somewhere" hasn't been identified to date. I refuse to believe that people simply dematerialize or vaporize.

In a sense, the investigation - to date, based on what WE know - has not produced anything tangible. All that has been produced is suspicions. 

it's hard for me to believe that after 6 months of investigating there is nothing. And further, is there nothing because they have focused on the wrong something for too long to the exclusion of the truth.

I almost get the feeling that Stanton (and team) have been overwhelmed by all of this. 

[Rob]

Also, it was somewhat confusing to read about searches on Sauvie, particularly in the water and to juxtapose that against there is not one shred of evidence that Kyron is dead. 

we're thinking along the same lines. Kyron is somewhere - that "somewhere" hasn't been identified to date. I refuse to believe that people simply dematerialize or vaporize.

In a sense, the investigation - to date, based on what WE know - has not produced anything tangible. All that has been produced is suspicions. 

it's hard for me to believe that after 6 months of investigating there is nothing. And further, is there nothing because they have focused on the wrong something for too long to the exclusion of the truth.

Basically, what I'm getting out of this is that in September, Stanton was thinking that this was going to turn out as a cold case.  He said at that time "what we need is concrete evidence".  Also, "we've found out things we wish we didn't know" and "in the end I think you'll be surprised" (words to that effect).  In September...they had no evidence and Stanton thought it was going to turn into a cold case.

In December, Stanton "flat out" states they have no evidence linking to Kyron or anyone connected with Kyron.  He's not talking about "concrete" evidence...he said "no evidence".  So, if I believe him, then they've gained no evidence in six months.
IMO, there is no imminent arrest of "anyone".  Stanton just told us he has no evidence. Wow, just wow!

Stanton also says those first 6 hours of time that is forever lost were crucial and it has "hurt" the investigation.  I say that in all of those people at the school, that no one saw anything is extremely hard to believe.  That means, IMO, thay Kyron either vanished off the face of the earth (which I don't believe in) or someone snatched him into another room and quickly subdued him (i.e., stun gun) and he was either wished away in the midst of the morning's confusion with the science fair or hidden in the school and taken out at the end of the day. 

I also get the impression that during the investigation in Kyron's case, unrelated things were discovered.  I'm taking that to mean that those things are related to adults around Kyron - but not related to Kyron.  I still wonder if Kaine/Terri were involved in something they shouldn't have been and that involvement went sour  - the "result" being that Kyron then was a factor.  Does anyone else think this is a possibility?

However, Stanton says "no evidence" so maybe my above theory is off-base.

Terrific summation Puzzler.!

BBM - if you really think about the bold part - doesn't that fit the evidence - or the lack there of? No evidence is THE evidence. It is the simplest theory and makes the most sense.

And while I do agree with what you said in the last paragraph; I could also take Staton as saying that things were discovered at the school - while not illegal - were not conducive to a school environment where children are present during normal school hours. That also could explain why no one from the school has spoken.

[Puzzler]

the problem with the cell phone triangulation is that TH's phone pinged somewhere other than where she indicated that she was.

So, what in the world could possibly be worse than being suspected of murdering your step child?

Why does she lie about where she was?  And if her cell phone went there and she didn't, what explanation is there for that?

Is she the most unlucky person on earth and all of these things happened with Kyron gone missing?

But add to it Dede"s missing time and the fact that TH cannot account for her time.  That's a problem.  A huge problem.

The public doesn't need to know what TH was up to.  She could tell LE and they could say that they have info that exonerates her.  But that is not the case.

We also hear that Terri told Kaine and Desiree that LE said she failed a questions and that Terri was very upset about that.  Why was she so upset?  Was it because she didn't lie and was angry because LE said she did?  I remember that LE doesn't have to tell you the truth.  I'm wondering if LE was trying to get Terri upset in hopes that she would get confused and give them some bits of information that they didn't have.  Of course, I don't know what the truth is here, but I could see that LE would try every way they could to confuse the situation in hopes that someone would say something out of the confusion. 

[Puzzler]

Terrific summation Puzzler.!

BBM - if you really think about the bold part - doesn't that fit the evidence - or the lack there of? No evidence is THE evidence. It is the simplest theory and makes the most sense.

And while I do agree with what you said in the last paragraph; I could also take Staton as saying that things were discovered at the school - while not illegal - were not conducive to a school environment where children are present during normal school hours. That also could explain why no one from the school has spoken.

 
(Snipped)

Good one.  I hadn't put together that what LE found out that they wish they hadn't or that was surprising, could have been connected to the school.  Of course it could be...just like it could be a lot of other things.  I wasn't thinking a big enough picture.
Everytime I think about the school and those working there, I get a strange feeling - but haven't been able to put that into words at this point.

[MuffyBee]

LE says they doesn't have any "physical evidence":

http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/physical-evidence/
Physical Evidence Law & Legal Definition
Physical evidence usually involves objects found at the scene of a crime. Physical evidence may consist of all sorts of prints such as fingerprints, footprints, handprints, tidemarks, cut marks, tool marks, etc. Examination of some physical evidence is conducted by making impressions in plaster, taking images of marks, or lifting the fingerprints from objects encountered. These serve later as a comparison to identify, for example, a vehicle that was parked at the scene, a person who was present, a type of manufacturing method used to create a tool, or a method or technique used to break into a building or harm a victim. An examination of documents found at the scene or related to the crime is often an integral part of forensic analysis. Such examination often helps to establish not only the author, but more importantly identify any alterations that took place. Specialists are also able to recover text from documents damaged by accident or on purpose. American Academy of Forensic Sciences (AAFS) describes physical evidence as anything from small evidences that require a microscope to view to anything as large as a truck.
****************************
Could there be another kind of evidence they have?  And I'm not so sure LE has to tell us (the public)the truth, since it's an ongoing investigation. 

[Kat_Gram]

There have been cases here where LE had some vision of who the guilty party was and then everything they did was based on that incorrect assumption.
It happens and I hope that this isn't the case here.
There could have been a pedo at the school, not a stranger that walked in off the street, but someone who was there already. A familiar face. A nice face. A teacher's bf ? someone who is there and doesn't raise any suspicions. A janitor, we went thru all that already.
And the fact that there were so many persons at the school that day. 
..
If after all this time, they have nothing on Terri except some suspicions maybe they have to go back to square one and that would include letting the case go to another agency.   
..
And I am not taking Terri's side in this.