LAST NIGHTS NANCY GRACE - 7-01-2010http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1007/01/ng.01.htmlNANCY GRACE
Missing 7-Year-Old`s Mother Pleads for Help From Stepmom
Aired July 1, 2010 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, rural Oregon. Stepmommy walks a 7-year-old little boy down the hall of his own elementary school to the science fair. He`s never seen again. Police insist stepmommy take a second polygraph. And in a stunning twist, 7-year-old Kyron`s dad files for divorce in secret, the court slapping stepmommy Terri Horman, the last person to see the boy alive, with an emergency restraining order. It gets worse! Stepmommy ordered to stay away from firearms and from her own children. What exactly does Daddy know?
At police urging, Kyron`s dad moves out of the house, taking the 19- month-old baby sister with him, tonight at a secret location, secret even from Kyron`s stepmother, the restraining order so explosive, the judge seals the file, keeping it secret so as to, quote, "not hinder the investigation." Forty-five minutes before being served with divorce papers, stepmommy denies any and all marital discord.
Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, Kyron`s natural mother breaks down in tears in a public plea, begging stepmommy to help police, insisting her 7-year-old boy is still alive. We have the video. In another twist, a second mystery 911 call from inside the Horman home. The first 5:45 PM Saturday, the emergency, dangerous threats. Daddy moves out within hours. The second, six hours later, nearly midnight. Forty-eight hours after that, stepmommy slapped with an emergency restraining order. Both 911 calls so crucial to the search for Kyron, police refuse to release them.
The focus of the investigation now on stepmommy, who after working out at the gym following Kyron`s disappearance, starts a war of words on line with anonymous bloggers. Shouldn`t she be looking for the boy? Tonight, she hires a high-powered defense lawyer, specialty homicide. Her own family says they fear she`s headed for arrest. This as a private K-9 search dog hits at Sauvie Island. How -- how -- does a 7-year-old little boy go missing from his own elementary school classroom?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESIREE YOUNG, KYRON`S MOTHER: Kyron is still alive. We would like all of you, everyone, to continue to get his face out there, to continue looking for him in your day-to-day activities. We pray each day for Kyron. We are working -- we are working with investigators daily to bring Kyron home. We are extremely confident in how the investigation is going, to bring him home to us. We implore Terri Horman to fully cooperate with the investigators to bring Kyron home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Stepmommy walks a 7-year-old little boy down the hall of his own elementary school to a science fair. He`s never seen again. As we go to air, Kyron`s natural mother breaks down in tears in a public plea, begging stepmommy to help police, insisting her 7-year-old little boy is alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: We implore Terri Horman to fully cooperate with the investigators.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the last person to see him alive...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The stepmother of missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman has hired a prominent criminal defense lawyer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports indicate a search dog honed in on a spot of water on Sauvie Island.
YOUNG: Kyron is still alive.
GRACE: ... a mystery 911 call from the Horman home...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... divorce papers served with a restraining order...
GRACE: ... banned from seeing her own natural child, a 19-month-old little girl...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... if the judge sees fit that there is imminent danger or past abuse by Terri Horman.
YOUNG: We are working with investigators daily to bring Kyron home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The natural mother taking to the public media, begging the stepmother to please help police, please come clean, please cooperate, breaking down in tears as she vows her 7-year-old little boy is still alive.
Straight out to Kevin Miller, investigative reporter. Kevin, what`s the latest?
KEVIN MILLER, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (via telephone): Nancy, today at Brooks (ph) Historic Church, Desiree Young had a show of unity, a show of confidence and a show of concern, a show of unity with her husband and Kaine Horman, Kyron`s natural father, saying that they believe that Kyron is still alive, We believe he`s alive, imploring people at this news conference to get the word out to let everyone know that Kyron is still missing, but they believe he`s alive.
And Nancy, yes, as you`ve said, they -- Desiree Young and the others said, We implore Terri Horman to fully cooperate with investigators to bring Kyron home. They`ve said they`re cooperating with investigators. They want her to cooperate right now, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, but if he`s still alive, Kevin Miller, where does that lead me? Since we know the police focus is now on stepmommy Terri Horman, if he`s still alive, what would be the working theory? Did she sell him? Did she give him away? I mean, where are they going with the theory that he`s still alive, Kevin Miller?
MILLER: Nancy, they believe that Terri Horman has these answers, and again, based on the 911 calls, based on the husband moving out, based on the fact that, again, they`re not releasing any information. And the parents believe this because they have to. They have that undying love for baby Kyron and they have to believe that he`s coming home. That`s where they get their belief from. And again, they want Terri Horman or whoever has Kyron to let him come home.
GRACE: So Kevin Miller, are you telling me that from your analysis, they want to believe he`s alive, or police have led them to believe he`s alive?
MILLER: I believe that they want to believe that he`s alive, and that`s their hope for continuing on. And they have spoken very highly of the police, so they believe that the police know the answers, Nancy.
GRACE: Let`s take a listen to the biological mother begging stepmommy to cooperate with police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: Kyron is still alive. We would like all of you, everyone, to continue to get his face out there, to continue looking for him in your day-to-day activities. We pray each day for Kyron. We are working -- we are working with investigators daily to bring Kyron home. We are extremely confident in how the investigation is going, to bring him home to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To James Pitkin, reporter with "The Willamette Week" newspaper. I understand that not only did the stepmom go work out shortly after the 7-year-old boy goes missing -- she`s the last person to see him alive -- but then she engages in a war of words on line on the Internet with anonymous bloggers, telling them, You don`t have your facts straight, blah, blah, blah. Shouldn`t she be out looking for the boy or doing something constructive, like cooperating with police?
JAMES PITKIN, "WILLAMETTE WEEK" (via telephone): Well, Nancy, that`s what a lot of people are thinking. I mean, to have her spend her time on line engaging with anonymous bloggers, defending herself, saying, You don`t understand, You don`t understand if you`re not in our shoes -- I mean, a lot of people question that kind of behavior. It goes back to her...
GRACE: The cat is...
PITKIN: ... back to her...
GRACE: Hold on! Hold on, James Pitkin. I was just reviewing this for the second time -- excuse me -- for another time. I completely missed, The cat is fine. She is on line blogging about her cat?
PITKIN: That`s right.
GRACE: While the boy is missing?
PITKIN: She blogged about hitting the gym and how she was looking forward to that. I mean, a lot of people think that that behavior is pretty questionable for someone in her position.
GRACE: OK. I know what all the defense attorneys are going to say, so let me just cut them off at the pass. We are taking your calls live. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers." Maybe I`m projecting, Dr. Bethany, but when I had a loved one that was murdered, I couldn`t even eat. I couldn`t sleep. I couldn`t think. I dropped out of school. I never even called my job to say, I`m not coming. I just quit going.
And she`s on line blogging about her cat and her workout? This is very wrong.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: You know what this is? This is reminiscent of Casey Anthony. Remember, the little girl goes missing, she goes to Target, she buys things for herself, she goes out dancing, she`s on a stripper pole.
Mothers who don`t want their children usually try to get rid of the child because they feel the child is standing in the way of the idealized life they want. What does stepmom do? She goes to the gym, and she reinvests back into her workout. And what it brings to mind for me is this -- is this a mom who was once in the highlight when she was in this competition, and now she wants to reinvest back into competing as a weightlifter and that`s why she needs this little boy out of the way?
GRACE: Out to the lines. Allison in Florida. Hi, Allison.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Good to talk to you.
GRACE: Likewise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, when they towed the stepmom`s truck away, were cadaver dogs used to sniff out the truck or the house at all?
GRACE: To James Pitkin with "The Willamette Week" newspaper. Were cadaver or bloodhounds, scent dogs, used?
PITKIN: Yes. The search originally did employ dogs, as well as, you know, everything from horses -- they had searchers on horseback. So yes, they`ve -- they`ve employed a lot of means to try to find Kyron.
GRACE: To Matt Zarrell, our producer on the story, joining us out of New York. Matt, what can you tell us?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, police won`t comment exactly if search dogs have searched the car itself, but police have come out and said the reason that the car was towed was not because they were investigating it but because it simply just broke down.
GRACE: Tonight, joining us, special guest Harry Oakes with search dog Willow, the owner of International K-9 Search and Rescue. He is searching for Kyron Horman. Harry, thank you for being with us. I understand that you and your dog went to Sauvie Island. What happened?
HARRY OAKES, INTERNATIONAL K-9 SEARCH AND RESCUE: Well, we brought in search dog Willow, search dog Tyler (ph), and introduced them to what`s called cadaver scent, searching a variety of areas. And both dogs alerted at a specific location along a houseboat area. We brought a second search dog team in today independent of our search dog teams, and they confirmed the location. But again, all we know is a dead human. We have no idea who it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: I just have this overwhelming feeling of guilt for not being there to protect him!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: ... continue to get his face out there...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stepmom Terri Horman has just hired a high-profile criminal defense attorney.
YOUNG: ... continue looking for him in your day-to-day activities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: KATU reports Terri Horman allegedly posted comments on line responding to criticism about reportedly leaving the gym just days after Kyron vanished. Horman alleged wrote, quote, "Wow, unless you know all the details, the stress, the worry, the pain, you have nothing to speak of."
YOUNG: We implore Terri Horman to fully cooperate with the investigators.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "You have no facts, details or knowledge to present, so please refrain from your accusations."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining us right now and taking your calls live, Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, weigh in.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I think it`s instructive to compare and contrast the behavior of the two moms. On the one hand, you have the stepmom, who is consumed by all matters of trivial -- all matters that are trivial. She`s worried about the cat. She`s going on line and she`s checking out blogs. She`s going to work out.
And then on the other hand, you have the real mom, who is absolutely consumed by all things Kyron. It absolutely breaks your heart as you hear her say, We believe Kyron is alive. And why is she doing that? I`ll tell you exactly why. Because she needs proof otherwise. You need proof of life or you need proof of death. And if you don`t get that, you`re going to believe that your child is alive. I know parents whose children have been missing for 20, 30 years, and in the core of their hearts, they still believe that those kids are alive.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Eleanor Odom, felony prosecutor, specialty, crimes on women and children, Alex Sanchez, defense attorney, New York, Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta. Eleanor, what do you make of it?
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Well, Nancy, I think it`s very interesting. It goes to her state of mind. It`s something law enforcement wants to look at. I`m also curious why she won`t talk to them, and it`s so important because she was the last person to see him alive. No matter what, they need to get her story straight.
GRACE: Well, she has spoken to them for about six hours that I know of. She`s taken, to our knowledge, two polygraphs. That can only mean one thing, that she flunked the first one and they asked for a second one. What do you make of that, Eleanor?
ELEANOR ODOM: Well, I think the police are onto something, and clearly, they want to know why she isn`t being more forthcoming, if the first one showed deception. And again, remember, Nancy, her cell phone shows she really wasn`t in, or at least the cell phone wasn`t in the vicinity of the school.
GRACE: Weigh in, Alex Sanchez.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I don`t know why anybody`s concluding that she failed that first polygraph. I think that`s a very unfair assumption that anybody`s taken at this time. Look, I haven`t seen one scintilla of evidence linking her to this criminal offense. Do I like her behavior? Do I like the fact that she goes to the gym? No, I don`t like that. But that`s a very poor substitute for hard, serious evidence in a matter of this importance. And I think we do need to wait...
GRACE: Put Sanchez up. Put him up! Sanchez...
SANCHEZ: Here I am.
GRACE: ... what about the fact that she is the last -- and I`m not saying she`s a suspect or a person of interest. But she is the last person to see the boy. Nobody else saw him. Her story doesn`t make sense, that she walked him to the door, his homeroom door, but he never made it in there, as the bell was ringing. Then her cell phone places her in an area where she says outright she was not there. What, her cell phone jogged down to Sauvie Island out in the mashes and the swamps?
SANCHEZ: Well, then I guess the grand jury should consider the case and vote an indictment.
GRACE: No, you said...
SANCHEZ: But obviously...
GRACE: ... there`s nothing there.
SANCHEZ: Obviously...
GRACE: And I`m asking you to respond to what I just told you!
SANCHEZ: Well, there -- obviously, at the present point, there`s insufficient evidence in order to bring criminal charges against her. And until...
GRACE: You always have...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: ... an indictment is voted, it`s very unfair to be treating her like this.
GRACE: Now, after the indictment, then what are you going to say? It`s very unfair, she`s presumed innocent until proven guilty? I can hear it already! OK, Odom, your turn.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, it is very unfair to presume that because her behavior isn`t what we might suppose it to be or want it to be that she`s guilty of something. People react in very personal, very unique ways to stress.
GRACE: Again -- yes, I knew that`s what you were going to say.
PETER ODOM: And if there`s evidence out there, let`s see it. We haven`t seen anything yet...
GRACE: I just told you some.
PETER ODOM: ... as Alex mentions.
GRACE: I just told you some. Can you respond to that?
PETER ODOM: I haven`t seen any hard evidence of that. All I`ve seen is what the police...
GRACE: I just told you she`s lying about her whereabouts! Why?
PETER ODOM: That`s what the police have decided to float. Has that been subject to the acid test of a grand jury yet? That`s what I`d like to know. And the answer to that is no.
GRACE: Very quickly respond, Jay Salpeter, private investigator, former NYC homicide detective. What do you make of the investigation so far, Jay?
JAY SALPETER, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Basically, they`re doing their job. Right now, Nancy, they still don`t have enough. In the beginning, everyone was saying she wasn`t cooperating, but she did cooperate by taking a polygraph. And it could have came back inconclusive, not -- she didn`t fail.
GRACE: That`s a good point, Jay.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please help us bring Kyron home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This will not become a cold case for us. We will continue to investigate this case until we have it solved.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As the hunt for Kyron moves from a search for a missing and endangered child to a criminal investigation, law officers will not comment on whether there are any suspects.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is such a mystery...
GRACE: How does a 7-year-old little boy go missing from his own elementary school classroom?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They certainly have focused the investigation on Terri Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: KATU reports stepmom Terri Horman allegedly posted comments on KATU`s message board responding to criticisms to her on the Internet. Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So far, we know of no answers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To the lawyers. Our e-mails are getting jammed at this moment. One viewer says, Linda (ph) from Menlo, "Can we hear something new from the defense lawyers? Same old tired defense."
What about it, defense lawyers? It`s on you. Peter Odom, Alex Sanchez. First you say nothing shows that she`s even suspect. Then when I give you a tidbit of evidence, you then whine, Well, there`s not an indictment. Come on! Can we just address what we know right now? The bio mom breaking down in tears, begging the stepmother to help police in the last hours.
SANCHEZ: And in fact, she has offered to help the police and that`s why she took a polygraph test.
GRACE: Really? By hiring a high-powered lawyer...
SANCHEZ: Wait a minute. Isn`t she...
GRACE: ... specialty homicide?
SANCHEZ: Wait a minute. Didn`t the husband -- didn`t the husband take out an order of protection against her?
GRACE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And if someone take out an order of protection against you, shouldn`t you go and hire an attorney? And if you believe that...
GRACE: That`s a good point.
SANCHEZ: ... you`re the target of a homicide, shouldn`t you go -- possibly go and protect yourself...
GRACE: What about it, Eleanor?
SANCHEZ: ... against an unfair prosecution?
GRACE: Let me ask you this. The emergency restraining order is apparently so volatile and so -- the evidence in that restraining order so crucial to the search for Kyron, the 7-year-old little boy, it is under seal, along with those two mystery 911 calls out of the Horman home. They came from inside Kyron Horman`s home that evening.
ELEANOR ODOM: And that`s to protect the investigation, Nancy. And what we see in this protective order is so important because it says she can`t have guns, she can`t be around the children or the husband.
GRACE: Even her own children.
ELEANOR ODOM: Exactly.
GRACE: Even her 16-year-old boy living elsewhere. She can`t be around him. She can`t be around the 19-year-old baby girl that she just had with Kyron`s father. What about it, Peter Odom? What does it say to you?
PETER ODOM: Nancy, it is foolish to jump to conclusions before these things have been tested. The police want to put out information making it look as if this woman is guilty. If they have so much evidence, let`s see it. Let`s have an arrest warrant.
GRACE: To Harry Oakes...
PETER ODOM: None of this says anything to me. None of this says anything to me, but that her behavior...
GRACE: OK, I heard you the first time. Thanks, Peter. To Harry Oakes, with search dog Willow. You stated that your dogs hit. What was the terrain in which they hit? And was it the cadaver scent on which they hit...
OAKES: Yes.
GRACE: ... or was it -- tell me.
OAKES: We used cadaver scent because the family refuses to give us a scent article of Kyron. So all we have to work on is the cadaver scent. And they hit in the water.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Terri is also on Kyron`s fliers and now isolated from the family. Kyron`s father moved out, filed for divorce and got a restraining order to keep her away from him and their 18-month-old daughter.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
DESIREE YOUNG, MOTHER OF MISSING 7-YR-OLD BOY, KYRON HORMAN: Kyron is still alive. We would like all of you, everyone to continue to get his face out there, to continue looking for him in your day-to-day activities.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: His mother, Desiree Young, made an emotional plea to his stepmom Terri Horman.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Terri Horman, the stepmother of missing 7- year-old Kyron Horman, has hired a prominent criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze.
Over the weekend there were two 911 calls coming from the Horman`s Oregon home.
YOUNG: We pray each day for Kyron. We are working -- we are working with investigators daily to bring Kyron home.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live. Out to Brandi in Texas. Hi, Brandi.
BRANDI, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi. First of all, I love your show.
GRACE: Brandi, thank you very much. And thank you for calling in tonight. What`s your question, dear?
BRANDI: My question is, I know the schools around where I live, you have to sign in before you can go anywhere in the school. Was she ever signed in to that school?
GRACE: Excellent question. To James Pitkins, reporter with the "Willamette Week" newspaper. How does it work at Skyline?
JAMES PITKINS, REPORTER, WILLAMETTE WEEK: At Skyline, they did not have a sign-in system that I`m aware of. They also did not require -- they didn`t have cameras and they did not call immediately when he was reported. They didn`t call until he did not get off the bus or so they say.
GRACE: Now in most schools -- let me go to you, Eleanor Odom -- do they call home when the person doesn`t show ?
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Yes, especially an elementary school, Nancy. They`re going to call and check on where that child is to make sure if they`re sick or that the parent knows that they`re not in school.
GRACE: So nothing happened along those lines.
Back to you, James Pitkins, with the "Willamette Week" newspaper. Certainly reporters were banned from the press conference today. Were you one of them?
PITKINS: I was, Nancy.
GRACE: Why? Why were you banned?
PITKINS: Kaine Horman, Kyron`s father, said that he doesn`t like the coverage that my newspaper has done or the biggest newspaper in the state, "The Oregonian." That`s the major daily here. We were both 86`d from that press conference.
A very bizarre move for a family that`s seeking to get as much attention around down this case the states, around his child, as possible.
GRACE: Well, you know what, James? Let me tell you something. As a crime victim myself, there`s no explaining why crime victims do the things they do. A year from now they may look back and think I wish I hadn`t done that.
But it could have been anything that was said in a way they didn`t appreciate. It could be anything. Of course, it`s not your job to please anybody. It`s your job to tell it like you see it.
To you, Marc Klaas. You can comment on that. And I`m not faulting the Horman family either.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: No, no.
GRACE: Because at a time like that, we can`t put ourselves in their place.
KLAAS: Well, I sort of can put myself in their place.
GRACE: Yes, you can.
KLAAS: And I tell you that we never 86`d any media. I think at a time like this, you can`t just look to the big super stations. You can`t just look to the networks, the cable companies.
You have to remember that sometimes your best ally when everybody else goes away is going to be your hometown newspaper, something like "The Oregonian", which is a powerful force in the state of Oregon.
GRACE: Well, I know that you had Polly go missing and she was later murdered -- discovered to be murdered. I know that my fiancee was murdered. A completely different set of trauma.
But I still stand by the fact that, right or wrong, I can`t be in the position -- none of us can - of what they are going through right now. Not only to have the boy missing, but suspicion now on step-mommy who has been raising the child for how long?
To you, Kevin Miller, she`s been -- in fact when the mom -- the mom was getting a divorce when she was eight months pregnant with Kyron, right?
KEVIN MILLER, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: That is correct. And she`s known Kyron since he was 3 days old.
GRACE: So mommy -- the natural mommy has to go to Canada, I believe, for surgery, for treatment. She had a very, very serious health condition. And the step-mommy is brought in to help as a nanny. She is actually a friend of the bio-mom`s. And wouldn`t you know it, she hooks up with Kyron`s father. They end up getting married.
Long story short, she`s been taking care of Kyron since he was a little boy. So this isn`t like some evil stepmom coming on to the scene later in life. She`s been there all along and, in fact, has had a baby girl with Kyron`s father.
Out to Barbara in Florida. Hi, Barbara. Barbara, are you with me?
OK. Let`s go to Laurie in Kentucky. Hi, Laurie. I`m not hearing my callers. See if you can get my callers back up for me, Dana.
To Dr. Michael Arnall, board certified forensic psychologist, joining us out of Denver. We have seen the terrain there in Sauvie Island. There is a lot of swamp. There is a lot of marsh.
If the child were live -- he`s been missing now since -- well over 20 days. Is there a chance, like the bio mom says, that he`s alive?
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: If he was alive when he was left on the island, I suppose there`s a remote possibility. But in most of these cases, and in particular if the cadaver dogs are hitting on cadaver scent, then I believe you have to consider the possibility that the child is now deceased.
GRACE: Well, we`ve got one cadaver hit from Harry Oakes. He is an independent. He is not with the police. Police have taken out their dogs. They did not get a hit.
And it is true, isn`t it, Mr. Harry Oakes, that dogs can hit on a cadaver scent and it could be other human remain? It could be human byproduct and not necessarily a dead body, Mr. Oakes?
HARRY OAKES, OWNER, INTERNATIONAL K-9 SEARCH & RESCUE, SEARCHING FOR KYRON HORMAN: That`s correct. Anything that -- it could be a rotting shoe that hasn`t been washed. It could be a dirty sock. But they`re not going to give a death alert on that but they will alert on that. But we did get a death alert from three different search dogs that are qualified to search for people on land and in water.
GRACE: To Matt Zarrell on the story, explain to me these two mystery 911 calls. Yesterday we knew about one around 5:45 p.m. on Saturday. And the 911 emergency was dangerous threats.
What`s the other call? We`re just learning about a second 911 call from inside Kyron`s home.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Yes. What we`re learning is actually the first call that was actually even a few minutes earlier and the call lasted 13 minutes.
Police needed to go to the home after the phone call. The second phone call, 11:39 p.m., hours later. It`s called a custody call. Police are not called to the home. The issue is resolved over the phone apparently.
GRACE: That`s very odd, Eleanor, that at 5:45 p.m., nearly 6:00 there is an emergency call about dangerous threats. About five hours later, there`s another 911 call about custody.
I wonder, did the dad leave the home with the baby at that time?
E. ODOM: Well, it could be, and what else concerns me, Nancy, is that it sounds like a typical domestic violence type call as well. So you wonder what type of violence potentially was going on in the home that evening.
GRACE: Another question. In that restraining order -- out to you, Alex Sanchez and Peter Odom. It says the stepmom, Terri Horman, is ordered not only away from children including her own but away from firearms, Peter Odom.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Remember, Nancy, that these restraining orders can be obtained based on very little evidence, based on a one-sided hearing and it`s a preponderance of the evidence.
So really -- and judges are very, very careful to issue them if they think there`s any remote chance of danger.
GRACE: Alex?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I mean, he`s right about that. And it`s very temporary until they have a hearing.
But, Nancy, you know, there`s something you`re ignoring here that I think is very important that needs to be addressed. How come the father and how come the police did not provide those cadaver dogs some clothing or articles of clothing of that child so those cadaver dogs can go over there and conduct an investigation?
GRACE: Well, they took their own dogs out, Alex Sanchez, so that`s the answer to that.
To Dr. Bethany Marshal. Bethany, weigh in on the court`s order to the stepmom to stay away from firearms and even her own children.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": I think what likely happened in that house that night is that stepmom made a threat against the 19-month-old baby to get back at bio dad and the scenario I envision is that he started to question her, she`s probably perhaps unstable, maybe even borderline personality disorder.
Perceived it as a threat and an abandonment, became aggressive towards him, threatened the baby in order to get back at him. And if this is the case -- and especially if she threatened with a firearm, what does that say of her parenting style with little Kyron?
It doesn`t sound good.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. But now to tonight`s case alert. A Texas family gets the shock of a lifetime getting ready for church Sunday morning. A newborn baby girl just two hours old abandoned on a rug on their front doorstep.
The little baby suffering hypothermia. Police on the lookout for birth mom asking medical professionals to contact cops if a young woman who recently gave birth comes for treatment.
If you have info call Ft. Bend County Crime Stoppers. 281-342-TIPS.
To tonight`s Facebook crime fighters, Texas friend Linda, Ohio friend Colleen, and Georgia friend Gail.
Facebook crime fighters, I want to thank you.
Submit photos at CNN.com/Nancygrace and click on Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Stepmom, stepmom, stepmom.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Bombshell, that stepmom is lawyering up. Not just any lawyer. A high profile criminal defense attorney.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The heat is on and she`s got a great lawyer.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Not one but two 911 calls were made from the Kyron Horman home on Saturday.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Reports now revealing there was a mystery 911 call at the couple`s home Saturday night.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A major Horman family shakeup.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who called 911? What happened?
YOUNG: We implore Terri Horman to fully cooperate with the investigators.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Terri Horman was with the 7-year-old June 4th at Skyline Elementary in Portland, Oregon.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The last known person to see little Kyron alive.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to the lines. Barbara in Florida. Hi, Barbara.
BARBARA, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
BARBARA: My question is do you think she was going to leave the husband and went down to that island and met her boyfriend and passed off the little boy?
GRACE: Hmm. But why -- if she was going to leave her husband, why involve the little boy? Why not just leave him at school and go hook up with whomever?
And at this point, to you, Kevin Miller, is there any suggestion of another man?
MILLER: Nancy, there`s no suggestion of another man. And remember Kaine was home that day working from home in the afternoon and did pick up or did -- was on his way to go see Kyron with Terri at the bus stop. He was there and he did report him missing along with Terri. That`s it.
GRACE: To Lori in Kentucky. Hi, Lori.
LORI, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
LORI: Yes, I have a comment and a question.
GRACE: OK.
LORI: I know that the stepmom had said that she wanted to stay home and be a mom to the son and that`s why she quit work as a substitute teacher. Now here in Kentucky they do a very extensive background check. Even if you`re a parent and want to go to a field trip.
Has anybody looked into the facts because I know the timeline, it`s kind of the same that this happened at the same time as her DUI, her child endangerment charge, that perhaps she`s lied about that also and she didn`t decide to stay home but she had to stay home because she got terminated?
GRACE: You know, that is a great point. Let`s go back over what we know.
To Kevin Miller, when was the DUI and child endangerment?
MILLER: Nancy, that was in 2005 and then Terri Horman did complete a program and the charge was stricken though -- from her record. It was dismissed. But yes, that was in 2005.
GRACE: And when did she decide to stay home and quit teaching?
MILLER: That was very recently. As far as the date, I don`t have that.
GRACE: What do we know, James Pitkins? Do you know when she decided to stop teaching?
PITKINS: I believe that was shortly after she married Kaine in 2007. She wanted to stay home and raise Kyron.
GRACE: So all of this is happening within about an 18-month period. That`s a good point, Lori in Kentucky.
To Joanna in Texas. Hi, Joanna.
JOANNA, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, Nancy. And Marc Klaas, you guys are my heroes.
Hey, Nancy, I have hiked that area in Oregon and I swear I still have mud on the shoes that I hiked in. So did they confiscate shoes?
GRACE: Good question. To Matt Zarrell, what do we know? We know that the home was searched, right, at least once?
ZARRELL: The home was searched multiple times and without search warrants. They voluntarily let police search. Police will not reveal what was taken from the home if anything.
GRACE: OK. Back to Kevin Miller. Kevin Miller, we know that police has taken -- police have taken dogs out to Sauvie Island. I want to go through one last time, if you could explain to me where the pings were and where step-mommy says she went after she dropped the little boy off at school.
MILLER: Well, Nancy, that`s a point of contention because you have the police that have interviewed her several times. She got two polygraphs and you`ve got the pinging on Sauvie Island which is about five to 10 miles from Skyline School.
And those are the details that we`re still trying to figure out. The timeline being she says that she last saw Kyron alive at Skyline Elementary School at 8:45. Then you have various reports of whether she was at the gym or she was around the house, and Kaine was home in the afternoon.
And then about 3:45 she and Kaine reportedly went to the bus stop to pick up Kyron. He wasn`t there. They then called the school, then the school then from what we know called the authorities.
GRACE: So the ping placed her at Sauvie Island but her story doesn`t place her at Sauvie Island.
Explain the pings, Jay Salpeter.
JAY SALPETER, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, FORMER NYC HOMICIDE DETECTIVE: Where you are. A ping is a tower which can track where you are actually calling or receiving a phone call from. That`s what the pings are.
GRACE: So her story doesn`t jive with the cell phone evidence.
SALPETER: No, it doesn`t jive. But you know what, Nancy, we -- they are so far from closing or even making an arrest. What I see so far -- this just be an unsolved case. Unless they find the body.
Once she lawyered up, she -- you know, she hurt the investigation. So unless they find the body and then could forensically hopefully tie her in, this case just might go unsolved.
And honestly, I`d like to polygraph the husband, too.
GRACE: Well, I`m not convinced that he hasn`t taken a polygraph. I don`t know. I think with the mother, the bio mom -- Meg, do you have that sound for me, Dana, the bio mom making a public plea today begging for cooperation? Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: Kyron is still alive. We would like al of you, everyone, to continue to get his face out there, to continue looking for him in your day-to-day activities. We pray each day for Kyron. We are working -- we are working with investigators daily to bring Kyron home.
We are extremely confident in how the investigation is going to bring him home to us. We implore Terri Horman to fully cooperate with the investigators to bring Kyron home.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want to clarify something that was said earlier about the Horman family not giving Harry Oakes and his search dogs items of Kyron`s clothing.
They have handed over multiple items to police to use for their tracker dogs. They did not give them to Harry Oakes. They said that they are cooperating with police only. Is that correct, Mr. Oakes?
OAKES: As I know.
GRACE: Repeat?
OAKES: As far as I know that statement is correct. We made multiple pleas to get a scent article. If they`re so concerned about finding their son, who cares who finds him?
GRACE: What about that, Marc Klaas?
KLAAS: I think that`s a really unfair thing to say. Of course they`re concerned about getting back their son. Apparently Mr. Oakes is a completely independent operator here, not working for the police and not working for the family. So if anybody`s motives are going to be called attention to, I think it would be his and certainly not the family`s.
GRACE: Well, in mind, as I once had an 84-year-old judge tell every jury, try your best, bend over backwards to try to make all parties speak the truth. In other words, find a way to make everything they`re saying, even if singly conflicting make sense.
So I think Mr. Harry Oakes comes in this with the best intentions and I believe the Horman family handed over all those items to police for tracker dogs to use.
Back to the lines, Cindy, California. Hi, Cindy.
CINDY, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi. My question is -- this evening I know she hired a criminal attorney and not -- for defense. Not an attorney for her divorce. Correct?
GRACE: That`s right. That`s not a domestic lawyer, you`re right, Cindy.
CINDY: Exactly why is she hiring a --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: We are working with investigators daily to bring Kyron home. We are extremely confident in how the investigation is going. We implore Terri Horman to fully cooperate with the investigators to bring Kyron home.
He is still alive. We would like all of you, everyone, to continue to get his face out there, to cone looking for him in your day-to-day activities. We pray each day for Kyron.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Can you imagine being the mother of Kyron Horman begging the public to look for him as you go about your daily activities, as you go to the grocery store, the bank or to work?
That`s the position the Horman family is in. Step-mommy takes Kyron, just 7 years old. The little thing can hardly see. He`s got big thick glasses. His t-shirt said CSI. He wanted to be a police officer. Takes him to the school science fair. He`s never seen again.
To Charlotte in Kentucky. Hi, Charlotte, what`s your question?
CHARLOTTE, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: Hi, I just have one quick question.
GRACE: OK.
CHARLOTTE: If he was seen at the school prior to the bell ringing and supposedly by the teachers, why didn`t someone notify the family when he didn`t show up in class?
GRACE: To Kevin Miller. Did teachers and others see him? I thought it was just the stepmom?
MILLER: There are conflicting reports. But authorities have said that Kyron was seen. Again, they will not release who that was. But again there is conflicting reports out of there. Notably, too, Nancy, Terri Horman is the last one to have seen him alive.
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Navy SEAL chief Adam Brown, 36, Hot Springs, Arkansas, served Afghanistan. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, three Afghanistan campaign medals, two Global War on Terrorism medals, two combat action badges.
A Sunday school teacher, dedicated to family and country. Dreamed of a master`s in business and finance. Loved following the stock market. Arkansas Razorbacks. Laser tag with his son. Shopping for dresses with his daughter.
Leaves behind grieving parents Larry and Janice, brother Sean, twin sister Amanda, widow Kelly, son Nathan, daughter Savannah.
Adam Brown, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but our biggest thank you is to you for being with us. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
