Haleigh Marie Cummings #35 4/22/10 - 5/04/10

[Wyks]

Mornin' all!

I say Tommy did pass a portion or all of his last polygraph. Tommy could have lied during the polygraph, but did answer a few important portions correctly and it launched the last search. It makes sense and as I said previously - the police are not going to go to that expense and use of manpower based on the words of known liars. So, a dock was used. But which dock? According to Art Harris it seems the police may not have even been sure and brought Misty out of her cozy confines.

To be safe - why not check every dock up and down the St. John. Say with in five miles. I know that's a lot of docks, but it's the prudent thing to do if the police are telling the truth and no remains of Haleigh were found. (I still think the truth has not yet revealed, but that's just my opinion).

It's always possible that there is no body and we all know why, no use bringing that back up again, but why not just check and be sure. After-all, the police must believe that Tommy must have told the truth or a portion of it.

This case didn't go from missing / abducted to homicide based on the words of liars. That can't happen and there needs to be proof and / or evidence.

Bodies are often dumped in a hurry and where the perps are familiar.

Well, in Dec. he supposedly walked her to a boat ramp at a dock.  Do all docks in that area have boat ramps?  If not, that could narrow down a search. 

[Brandi]

This is the wrong floor plan for the mobile home. The bath was off from the bedroom. There is no bath next to the kitchen. You go across the living room into a hall with 2 more bedrooms and a bath.

Everyone, keep up the good work

Love,

IBE

I thought that as well.  I think it was posted as the property at 202 Green Lane was listed as 'For Rent' and there was a floorplan attached.  I believe either Jersey or penny posted this info.

I posted this earlier; I am very sure this is the correct floor plan. This is what is left of the online listing when it was for rent: http://www.putnamcountyrentals.com/202greenLane.html

[Lifesong]

LOL, glad all are home safe, I've got the storms coming in tomorrow nite.

I thing the only way this family can clean up is from the top down.
It has to start with Hank Sr.  Sometimes in the tapes, I get the impression he's thinking about getting a backbone, I think guilt stops him.  He feels guilty for the mess his life is in and therefore the mess his kids are in.  He has to step up and be an example, quit parenting by guilt and that goes for TN too, clean his act up, and demand the same from his family, or at least what is left of it when this all washes out.

Thanks Mudder! 

I agree with you, has to start at the top.  These parents/grandparents made mistakes yes, and yet, no time like the present to get a new start.  They cannot go back and undo what has been done, but they sure can apologize to their kids, get determined to lead by example from here on out.  Some young adults can be reparented to some degree, with at least the adults giving positive guidance etc.  At times I think TN has it in her, not so sure about Hank Sr.  The guilt must be huge, yet they have to put that aside and move on.  TN needs to get past her denial first tho.  IMO.  Easy enough for me to see this and say things, not easy to do I know.  Also easy for me to see in others, not so easy to see my own crapola.  Am thinking this can at the least serve for all of us to take serious looks at our own stuff and see where we can each improve with our own families. 

Thanks Wyks, I missed this message from Mudder.  I agree with both of you about Hank Sr.

I think Teresa is in this coverup up to her eyeballs.  I think she (and probably Grandma Sykes) was there helping Misty with the "cleaning" prior to the 911 call.  Teresa is also covering for Ron and has less credibility here than Hank Sr, imo.

[GramaMonkey]

This is the wrong floor plan for the mobile home. The bath was off from the bedroom. There is no bath next to the kitchen. You go across the living room into a hall with 2 more bedrooms and a bath.

Everyone, keep up the good work

Love,

IBE

I thought that as well.  I think it was posted as the property at 202 Green Lane was listed as 'For Rent' and there was a floorplan attached.  I believe either Jersey or penny posted this info.

I posted this earlier; I am very sure this is the correct floor plan. This is what is left of the online listing when it was for rent: http://www.putnamcountyrentals.com/202greenLane.html

   THANK YOU BRANDI ... YES, that is the correct one ... showing the location of the bath suite in the master bedroom, and also now the pic fits as to Jr's bedroom.

[flutter1]

Thanks everyone for all the loving thoughts.
Its hard, shes my little girl, but easier too.  I know where she is at
and that she isn't going to die tonite.  Actually it brings a great deal of peace.

As far as the generations of addiction, years ago, during my first marriage, I would attend Al-Anon groups, because of hubby and brother.  They said in these groups that addiction is hereditary, and not just environmentally, that chemical imbalance can happen to anyone, but some have a chemical imbalance in the brain that makes the addiction worse and harder to break.  It certainly was true with my daughter, she wasn't raised by her dad, and rarely seen my brother, and I don't even drink, so it wasn't in her environment. 

I can sympathize with you.  My daughter's experiences are very similar to yours.  Tough Love is sometimes tougher on the parents than the kids.

[Lifesong]

Mornin' all!

I say Tommy did pass a portion or all of his last polygraph. Tommy could have lied during the polygraph, but did answer a few important portions correctly and it launched the last search. It makes sense and as I said previously - the police are not going to go to that expense and use of manpower based on the words of known liars. So, a dock was used. But which dock? According to Art Harris it seems the police may not have even been sure and brought Misty out of her cozy confines.

To be safe - why not check every dock up and down the St. John. Say with in five miles. I know that's a lot of docks, but it's the prudent thing to do if the police are telling the truth and no remains of Haleigh were found. (I still think the truth has not yet revealed, but that's just my opinion).

It's always possible that there is no body and we all know why, no use bringing that back up again, but why not just check and be sure. After-all, the police must believe that Tommy must have told the truth or a portion of it.

This case didn't go from missing / abducted to homicide based on the words of liars. That can't happen and there needs to be proof and / or evidence.

Bodies are often dumped in a hurry and where the perps are familiar.

Well, in Dec. he supposedly walked her to a boat ramp at a dock.  Do all docks in that area have boat ramps?  If not, that could narrow down a search. 

I don't believe that story of Misty's that Tommy took her to a boat ramp or a dock in December.  IMO, she's just making stuff up on the fly now.

[Wyks]

Rob - I completely agree that Tommy had to have passed all or part of his latest polygraph.  IMO, his lawyer would not be out in public talking like he has been if Tommy had failed again. 

I notice that Misty's lawyer isn't out trying to improve her reputation to a potential jury pool.  She is still lying which ought to make for some fascinating jailhouse visits and/or phone calls with her dad.  Hank Sr. seems to be a straight talker with her for the most part and it will be interesting to see how he handles this pitting of his children against each other.  If Tommy's told the truth to LE, then its probable that he's also told the truth to Hank Sr.  I don't think Sr will repeat it on a recording, but I can see him calling Misty out on it with vague references. 

As a parent, even a failed parent as Hank Sr. is in my opinion, how do you deal with this?  Perhaps the only way is to get to the truth and then learn to live with it.  IMO, Hank Sr. does try to avoid being a hypocrit to his children and is well aware that he's not set an example they can follow.  He seems to be honest with them about that so perhaps the only trait he does expect from his kids is honesty.  IDK, I just think we're at a very tense time as we're nearing the end of this. 

My opinion is that Misty is covering for Ron and herself. 

My hope is that she can grow up and realize that its not true love and Ron will throw her under the bus in a hot minute.

Misty needs to tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may.  Perhaps Hank Sr. is the only one left that can convince her its ok to do that.  It is his responsibility as her parent to do so and it may be the last chance he gets to save at least one of his children.

JMO and only MO.

Will try to answer this question I bolded..

It's hard, as a parent, when one of our children is pitted against another.  I've experienced that in a serious situ with two of my sons, altho not as serious as what the Croslins are facing.  For me it was a matter of already having a good workable relationship with sons, knowing what each are like, etc.  Not so sure that Hank/Lisa have this with their kids.  I know how my sons acted, knew which was telling the truth and which was lying.  Then it was just a matter of upholding the truthful son, breaking down the lying one, and trying to stay out of it as much as possible.  Interestingly enough, peer pressure between siblings can do wonders if you let it.  But there has to be consequences to help that pressure along, so to speak. 

Example (and I know this in NO way compares to what the Croslins are facing)... One of my sons stole an expensive bike (back in the day), the oldest was accusing the middle one, who was accusing the oldest.  I knew the oldest was lying and the middle one was telling the truth.  Sadly, for my middle son, he still got to face the consequences until the exact truth was told.  They BOTH had to give up their own (and even more expensive) bikes until one of the oldest broke down and admitted what he had done, and admitted the lying.  Not fair to take the bike of the one telling the truth??  Yeah... but it led to peer (sibling) pressure.  Trust me, they have ways of dealing with things that forces the other to break.  It took a LOT of time, but eventually the middle son wore down the oldest.  He wanted his bike back!  lol...
My oldest finally broke down fully, admitting things etc.  It all ended up with him giving his own bike to the one who he had stolen a bike from, middle son got his bike back, and oldest son had some damage repair to their relationship that he had to fix.  (He bought him a much wanted game system). 

It's hard to be a parent in the midst of two kids where a huge lie is being told.  We have to know our kids ahead of time, to be able to sort thru the mess, deal the consequences and standby allowing things to work themselves out.  Kicks in the a$$ to get things to move along if necessary. 

Not so sure that Hank Sr has ever had it in him to do any of this.  I don't think he knows his kids well enough to know which is lying, which is telling the truth.  They don't seem to have a healthy relationship to begin with, won't be easy for him to step in now and suddenly be the wise parent.  I think *he could* tell both Misty and Tommy to get their heads out of their a$$es, straighten up and start saying exactly what happened to their best knowledge.  Hank Sr does have some pull (IMO), even with Misty/Tommy in jail atm, cuz he could just refuse to visit or take their calls until such a time that they decide to get with the program.  I dunno the answer to their delimma.  I don't even know what I'd do in that situ.  But I do believe that to get anything done NOW between that family... it had to have started a heck of a long time ago.  IMO. 
   

[Wyks]

This is the wrong floor plan for the mobile home. The bath was off from the bedroom. There is no bath next to the kitchen. You go across the living room into a hall with 2 more bedrooms and a bath.

Everyone, keep up the good work

Love,

IBE

Heyyyyyyyyyy IBE!!!!!     Soooooo good to 'see' you!!  Please pop in here more often, I miss you! 
 

[Wyks]

I posted this earlier; I am very sure this is the correct floor plan. This is what is left of the online listing when it was for rent: http://www.putnamcountyrentals.com/202greenLane.html

I agree Brandi!  From these pics compared to that floor plan, it looks to be a match.  IMO.

[carpe noctem]

I posted this earlier; I am very sure this is the correct floor plan. This is what is left of the online listing when it was for rent: http://www.putnamcountyrentals.com/202greenLane.html

I agree Brandi!  From these pics compared to that floor plan, it looks to be a match.  IMO.

I wonder who hung those pictures in pic #2 (above the fish tank)

You`d need a step-stool to get them near the ceiling like that. They could use a lesson on centering too.

[fatcatlurker]

Carpe .... A man...ha ha ha!  Realtor I know when a man has done the decorating.  JMO

[Brandi]

I posted this earlier; I am very sure this is the correct floor plan. This is what is left of the online listing when it was for rent: http://www.putnamcountyrentals.com/202greenLane.html

I agree Brandi!  From these pics compared to that floor plan, it looks to be a match.  IMO.

I wonder who hung those pictures in pic #2 (above the fish tank)

You`d need a step-stool to get them near the ceiling like that. They could use a lesson on centering too.

Keep in mind, these pictures were taken right after LE released the home back to Ronald. And not before GGma Sykes cleaned it up!

So who knows what it looked like that night Haleigh went missing.

[fatcatlurker]

True True.  I noted the basket of laundry in the master bedroom also.

[Wyks]

LOL, glad all are home safe, I've got the storms coming in tomorrow nite.

I thing the only way this family can clean up is from the top down.
It has to start with Hank Sr.  Sometimes in the tapes, I get the impression he's thinking about getting a backbone, I think guilt stops him.  He feels guilty for the mess his life is in and therefore the mess his kids are in.  He has to step up and be an example, quit parenting by guilt and that goes for TN too, clean his act up, and demand the same from his family, or at least what is left of it when this all washes out.

Thanks Mudder! 

I agree with you, has to start at the top.  These parents/grandparents made mistakes yes, and yet, no time like the present to get a new start.  They cannot go back and undo what has been done, but they sure can apologize to their kids, get determined to lead by example from here on out.  Some young adults can be reparented to some degree, with at least the adults giving positive guidance etc.  At times I think TN has it in her, not so sure about Hank Sr.  The guilt must be huge, yet they have to put that aside and move on.  TN needs to get past her denial first tho.  IMO.  Easy enough for me to see this and say things, not easy to do I know.  Also easy for me to see in others, not so easy to see my own crapola.  Am thinking this can at the least serve for all of us to take serious looks at our own stuff and see where we can each improve with our own families. 

Thanks Wyks, I missed this message from Mudder.  I agree with both of you about Hank Sr.

I think Teresa is in this coverup up to her eyeballs.  I think she (and probably Grandma Sykes) was there helping Misty with the "cleaning" prior to the 911 call.  Teresa is also covering for Ron and has less credibility here than Hank Sr, imo.

You're welcome, Lifesong, and I agree with you too.  Am thinking that TN was totally in the coverup, may have even been in on the script that Misty/Ron seems to have followed.  Wouldn't be at all surprised to find that Annette scripted the entire thing.  Remember, Ron seemed VERY pissed off leaving the courthouse or clerk's office that day when they got their marriage license??  Seemed like he was 'made' by someone to marry Misty, didn't seem to be happy about it at all... while Misty seemed to have been on cloud9.   The only people that I'm thinking could 'make' Ron do anything, is Teresa and/or Annette. 

I hear ya on the credibility issue between Teresa and Hank Sr.  Could be that she is less credible than him because she was involved and is desperately trying to hold the script together so that is never found out?  I don't think Hank Sr was involved in a coverup, and that could be why he seems more credible.  He is at least tho, placating Misty.  Not sure yet what he's doing with Tommy.  Seems he could toss Tommy to the dogs over Misty, in a new york second.  And if true, how sad must that be for Tommy?  The Croslins may be using Joe as the scapegoat atm, yet Tommy feels like the runner-up for the scapegoat role in that family.   

Seems to me that Teresa has had what appears to be a near rabid defense of Ron (which makes sense for a mom in denial that her precious could do no wrong).. and even of Misty (which makes no sense just cuz how Misty is).  For Teresa to have had the defense from the start smacks of some prior knowledge of her own that she's not admitting to.  IMO.

Is she so defensive of them because she has to be in order to cover for herself and perhaps Annette?  Annette is the matriarch, and seems to be the mostly silent pillar of strength behind them all, very likely the one calling the shots.  I bet my next paycheck she's the one behind Teresa, who is the one behind Ron/Misty.   

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that they ALL are covering for another family member who has not been in the spotlight yet at all.  Someone like the aunt that Ron worked for, or the one who went along for the ride with Annette that night to take the clean laundry over, or even someone else.  Am betting that unknown person had a big role in whatever happened to Haleigh and the rest are covering it up. 

I wish LE would nail Teresa down on her schedule that night, (if they haven't, unknown to us).  Her story about when she arrived makes no sense at all, and hasn't from the beginning.  Am with you on this, seems she HAD to have been there earlier.  Maybe she left and came back after the police came, just for appearance sake.  Could be the reason we don't hear Jr. screaming/crying in the background, is cuz Grammie is holding him.  ?? 

[no rose colored glasses]

Carpe .... A man...ha ha ha!  Realtor I know when a man has done the decorating.  JMO

Not only a man, but a very stoned man would hang pictures almost on the ceiling 

[Wyks]

Thanks everyone for all the loving thoughts.
Its hard, shes my little girl, but easier too.  I know where she is at
and that she isn't going to die tonite.  Actually it brings a great deal of peace.

As far as the generations of addiction, years ago, during my first marriage, I would attend Al-Anon groups, because of hubby and brother.  They said in these groups that addiction is hereditary, and not just environmentally, that chemical imbalance can happen to anyone, but some have a chemical imbalance in the brain that makes the addiction worse and harder to break.  It certainly was true with my daughter, she wasn't raised by her dad, and rarely seen my brother, and I don't even drink, so it wasn't in her environment. 

I can sympathize with you.  My daughter's experiences are very similar to yours.  Tough Love is sometimes tougher on the parents than the kids.

Well said, flutter!  And I empathize with you as well, re your family experiences.  It affects the whole family, that it does. 

My oldest son has been challenging since he was 2 years old, and he is 29 now.  Not into heavy drugs, but he has anti-social personality and etc.  Tough love doesn't work with him, altho I've tried and tried.  Given that up I have, because he has no clue.  Since he is a grown adult, when we were all living together and sharing expenses, my latest attempt at tough love was for my other sons and I to move out, rather than kick him out.  We left him no forwarding addresses, changed our phone numbers.  That was rather extreme I know, yet was the next step in what we had already tried doing.  It was extreme because what he had done to the family was extreme. 

I did eventually, after about a year of no contact, call him and gave him my phone number, but not my address.  Did that cuz of my grandson, I couldn't go forever without knowing that my son at least had a contact # in case of an emergency with grandson etc.  Problem is... in that whole year, my son hadn't gotten the message of tough love that we were all sending.  Just thought, huh... why is everyone mad at me?  <bangs head on brick wall>

So yes, it's harder on the parent (and now for us his brothers as well).  Heartbreak for us that it could come to this, and especially that he still just doesn't 'get it', despite it all.  Sigh. 
 

[Wyks]

Mornin' all!

I say Tommy did pass a portion or all of his last polygraph. Tommy could have lied during the polygraph, but did answer a few important portions correctly and it launched the last search. It makes sense and as I said previously - the police are not going to go to that expense and use of manpower based on the words of known liars. So, a dock was used. But which dock? According to Art Harris it seems the police may not have even been sure and brought Misty out of her cozy confines.

To be safe - why not check every dock up and down the St. John. Say with in five miles. I know that's a lot of docks, but it's the prudent thing to do if the police are telling the truth and no remains of Haleigh were found. (I still think the truth has not yet revealed, but that's just my opinion).

It's always possible that there is no body and we all know why, no use bringing that back up again, but why not just check and be sure. After-all, the police must believe that Tommy must have told the truth or a portion of it.

This case didn't go from missing / abducted to homicide based on the words of liars. That can't happen and there needs to be proof and / or evidence.

Bodies are often dumped in a hurry and where the perps are familiar.

Well, in Dec. he supposedly walked her to a boat ramp at a dock.  Do all docks in that area have boat ramps?  If not, that could narrow down a search. 

I don't believe that story of Misty's that Tommy took her to a boat ramp or a dock in December.  IMO, she's just making stuff up on the fly now.

Could very well be!  Problem is, how will anyone ever know *if* Misty is telling the truth?  Even if she is, I don't think I could believe her. 

[Wyks]

I posted this earlier; I am very sure this is the correct floor plan. This is what is left of the online listing when it was for rent: http://www.putnamcountyrentals.com/202greenLane.html

I agree Brandi!  From these pics compared to that floor plan, it looks to be a match.  IMO.

I wonder who hung those pictures in pic #2 (above the fish tank)

You`d need a step-stool to get them near the ceiling like that. They could use a lesson on centering too.

LMAO!!!  I hadn't even noticed that, but OMG you're right!!   

[no rose colored glasses]

That picture of Ron looking all hang dog has bothered me all this time. It has always looked so fake to me 

[Mudder]

Thanks everyone for all the loving thoughts.
Its hard, shes my little girl, but easier too.  I know where she is at
and that she isn't going to die tonite.  Actually it brings a great deal of peace.

As far as the generations of addiction, years ago, during my first marriage, I would attend Al-Anon groups, because of hubby and brother.  They said in these groups that addiction is hereditary, and not just environmentally, that chemical imbalance can happen to anyone, but some have a chemical imbalance in the brain that makes the addiction worse and harder to break.  It certainly was true with my daughter, she wasn't raised by her dad, and rarely seen my brother, and I don't even drink, so it wasn't in her environment. 

I can sympathize with you.  My daughter's experiences are very similar to yours.  Tough Love is sometimes tougher on the parents than the kids.

Well said, flutter!  And I empathize with you as well, re your family experiences.  It affects the whole family, that it does. 

My oldest son has been challenging since he was 2 years old, and he is 29 now.  Not into heavy drugs, but he has anti-social personality and etc.  Tough love doesn't work with him, altho I've tried and tried.  Given that up I have, because he has no clue.  Since he is a grown adult, when we were all living together and sharing expenses, my latest attempt at tough love was for my other sons and I to move out, rather than kick him out.  We left him no forwarding addresses, changed our phone numbers.  That was rather extreme I know, yet was the next step in what we had already tried doing.  It was extreme because what he had done to the family was extreme. 

I did eventually, after about a year of no contact, call him and gave him my phone number, but not my address.  Did that cuz of my grandson, I couldn't go forever without knowing that my son at least had a contact # in case of an emergency with grandson etc.  Problem is... in that whole year, my son hadn't gotten the message of tough love that we were all sending.  Just thought, huh... why is everyone mad at me?  <bangs head on brick wall>

So yes, it's harder on the parent (and now for us his brothers as well).  Heartbreak for us that it could come to this, and especially that he still just doesn't 'get it', despite it all.  Sigh. 
 

Wow, guess we all have got a good taste of how hard parenting can be.  Sorry, for what your going thru, Wyks.  Shame the pill-billies don't get that parenting isn't a popularity contest.
The two munchkins I've taken in are my cousin's grandkids, they've been with me for two years now, and the ten yr old boy has been diagnosed with Conduct Disorder, that at 18 will be called anti-social psychotic disorder.  Tough love doesn't work on him, either, just fuels his anger.  His doctor says all I can do is keep reinforcing that good behavior makes you happy and bad behavior makes life rough. 

His doc says that he never connected to his parents, both are druggies, the kids had a horrible life before coming here.  And because he never connected in his young years, that he will never really care about anyone except for what he can get from them.  I continue the fight, he's such a smart boy, and funny when he is in good spirits.  But he will freely tell you, he don't care if your mad, and that he likes to make people mad.  The doc says he'll be in jail before he graduates because you can't make kids care.

I think that is all the pill-billies problems, they are all disconnected, no one really cares about the other, just themselves.