Home
Blog
Radio
Missing Persons
Crime
May 21, 2024, 07:37:50 AM
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
News
:
NEW CHILD BOARD CREATED IN THE POLITICAL SECTION FOR THE 2016 ELECTION
Home
Help
Login
Register
Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum
>
Natalee Holloway
>
LCD Archive
> Topic:
Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/5/2007
Pages:
«
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
»
Go Down
« previous
next »
Print
Author
Topic: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/5/2007 (Read 208267 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Rammstein
Scared Monkey
Offline
Posts: 451
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #760 on:
August 05, 2007, 07:47:05 PM »
Quote from: mrs. red on August 05, 2007, 07:30:19 PM
Ramm... what is the level to prove that he needs mental help? I mean is the threshhold high or is it low??
this is something I found regarding the Pieter Baan Centrum (mental facility)
In Dutch criminal cases in which doubts arise about the defendant's mental health, a forensic assessment will be requested. This is provided either by the multidisciplinary staff of residential clinics who conduct forensic evaluations for the court, or by mental health professionals contracted on a part-time basis by district courts. This article discusses the procedures applied in such cases as well as the relevant legal provisions. It focuses particularly on the clinical observation, evaluation, and reporting that is carried out over a number of weeks in the residential setting of the Pieter Baan Centrum. Specific attention is paid to procedures applied in this clinic. It is suggested that Dutch procedures for the use of mental health expertise can best be characterized by three aspects: multidisciplinary observation and reporting, the use of a sliding scale for indicating degree of responsibility, and, finally, the involvement and payment of experts by the state as such, rather than by the prosecution and/or the defense.
the entire discussion/article can be purchased for 25$ but I am not going to do that if you don't mind
But as it says here a suspect is sent (almost always by the judge as preparation for the trial) and kept for several weeks to assess his mental health and his degree of responsibility.
But even if he had been found to be mentally ill that would have been even worse in his case.
For manslaughter (which is what he would have been guilty off) he would have gotten 8 to 12 years (as a rule) and would have been out in 6 to 8 years or so. As a mental deficient offender he would have been sentenced to 6 to 8 years with TBS and mandatory treatment which usually means he would be locked up for 10 years or longer (he could even be kept in for forever).
Even if it had been unintentional manslaughter with TBS he would face much longer behind bars that if he would have confessed and taken his punishment.
The threshold is very high and is in degrees, but TBS is something every convict wants to avoid as it can be a life sentence.
I know of one case in which a pedophile was arrested for some perverted act that would have cost him a few years in jail, instead he got TBS and has been incarcerated for I believe more than 40 years.
As said, TBS can last for forever. If they deem you uncurable then you will never be released, ever.
Logged
Rule 208. Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than the question is an answer
Rammstein
Scared Monkey
Offline
Posts: 451
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #761 on:
August 05, 2007, 07:48:34 PM »
Quote from: klaasend on August 05, 2007, 07:32:19 PM
Quote from: bleachedblack on August 05, 2007, 07:29:30 PM
Rammstein wrote;
Quote
I know he was not in a position to make good on that promise. The only one able to decide that is the presiding three judges who will sit at Joran's trial in judgment of him.
Also Joran would have had to be found mentally ill in one of my countries mental institutions.
The police could however have advised him to be admitted for investigation of his mental capacities, however that would not be instead of jail time but as preparation for a trial.
Anyway you look at that advice, it is not advice you would give someone who simply left a girl sleeping on the beach.
Exactly
I agree, it would either be to trick him to either betray his own involvement in Natalee's death or the Kalpoes.
Logged
Rule 208. Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than the question is an answer
bleachedblack
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 7607
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #762 on:
August 05, 2007, 07:51:40 PM »
O/T here we have talked about ways of getting pedophiles off the street here so that they don't commit another crime. As they are technically incurable many would agree, maybe that is a way.......TBS .
Logged
".......O you who love clear edges
more than anything ...... watch the edges that blur"
mrs. red
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 9318
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #763 on:
August 05, 2007, 07:52:10 PM »
Thanks Ramm!!! Interesting... it would be better for us, in this case if he were held in an mental capacity....
Did you see the Jensen show?
Logged
To accomplish great things we must not only act but also dream, not only plan but also believe.
Author: Anatole
Rammstein
Scared Monkey
Offline
Posts: 451
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #764 on:
August 05, 2007, 07:52:31 PM »
Quote from: Buckeye on August 05, 2007, 07:41:48 PM
Ramm
The info was leaked by the
police
. Say what you want about the US media, but they do try to confirm a lead. They chose the Justice Ministry (maybe there was no answer at the OM office). No matter how it happened....it was not made up...it was real. You believe misinformation, I believe true information retracted.
both opinions have some valid points, both are at least more believable than the Ref. opinions on where Natalee is
Logged
Rule 208. Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than the question is an answer
SunFreak2
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 3251
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #765 on:
August 05, 2007, 07:52:45 PM »
On June 10 - a body was recovered at the Arubay rocks. Aruba says a 7 year old boy was recovered the year before. I say it was Natalee.
Logged
mrs. red
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 9318
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #766 on:
August 05, 2007, 07:53:45 PM »
Quote from: bleachedblack on August 05, 2007, 07:51:40 PM
O/T here we have talked about ways of getting pedophiles off the street here so that they don't commit another crime. As they are technically incurable many would agree, maybe that is a way.......TBS .
I had that thought too... now to get the stupid politicans and judges to implement it...
Logged
To accomplish great things we must not only act but also dream, not only plan but also believe.
Author: Anatole
Rammstein
Scared Monkey
Offline
Posts: 451
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #767 on:
August 05, 2007, 08:04:13 PM »
Example:
83 year old pedophile was deemed to old/phycically to be jailed or locked in a mental facility. Thus he was convicted to be forcibly treated by a shrink, forced to take meds to suppress his tendencies and he is followed by satellite tracking 24/7 and is banned from places where children come (like parks, schools etc.) and when he comes within the vicinity of such a place then the local police is automatically alerted to this.
Example 2:
a 64 year old man has been in TBS since he accosted an 11 year old girl when he was 17. During trial leave he suspected to have done the same to a 6 year old girl. After that he was deemed untreatable and his been in TBS for 47 year
Logged
Rule 208. Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than the question is an answer
mrs. red
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 9318
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #768 on:
August 05, 2007, 08:05:26 PM »
Quote from: Rammstein on August 05, 2007, 08:04:13 PM
Example:
83 year old pedophile was deemed to old/phycically to be jailed or locked in a mental facility. Thus he was convicted to be forcibly treated by a shrink, forced to take meds to suppress his tendencies and he is followed by satellite tracking 24/7 and is banned from places where children come (like parks, schools etc.) and when he comes within the vicinity of such a place then the local police is automatically alerted to this.
Example 2:
a 64 year old man has been in TBS since he accosted an 11 year old girl when he was 17. During trial leave he suspected to have done the same to a 6 year old girl. After that he was deemed untreatable and his been in TBS for 47 year
I like this system.... seems like it works. How do we get our politicans to do this
Logged
To accomplish great things we must not only act but also dream, not only plan but also believe.
Author: Anatole
Nut44x4
Maine - USA
Global Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 18800
RIP Grumpy Cat :( I will miss you.
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #769 on:
August 05, 2007, 08:07:28 PM »
Quote from: SunFreak2 on August 05, 2007, 07:52:45 PM
On June 10 - a body was recovered at the Arubay rocks. Aruba says a 7 year old boy was recovered the year before. I say it was Natalee.
I believe she was moved several times after death (sorry
...it sickens me to even think it). I do believe she WAS at the rocks at some point. Her resting place now.....the depths of the ocean. Tim and crew will find her.
Logged
Brothers and Sisters, I bid you beware/Of giving your heart to a dog to tear -- Rudyard Kipling
One who doesn't trust is never deceived...
'I remained too much inside my head and ended up losing my mind' -Edgar Allen Poe
Buckeye
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 5376
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #770 on:
August 05, 2007, 08:08:41 PM »
Quote from: Rammstein on August 05, 2007, 08:04:13 PM
Example:
83 year old pedophile was deemed to old/phycically to be jailed or locked in a mental facility. Thus he was convicted to be forcibly treated by a shrink, forced to take meds to suppress his tendencies and he is followed by satellite tracking 24/7 and is banned from places where children come (like parks, schools etc.) and when he comes within the vicinity of such a place then the local police is automatically alerted to this.
Example 2:
a 64 year old man has been in TBS since he accosted an 11 year old girl when he was 17. During trial leave he suspected to have done the same to a 6 year old girl. After that he was deemed untreatable and his been in TBS for 47 year
Maybe that's why PVDS said no deal ...just be quiet Joran...????
Logged
Buckeye
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 5376
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #771 on:
August 05, 2007, 08:09:45 PM »
Quote from: Nut44x4 on August 05, 2007, 08:07:28 PM
Quote from: SunFreak2 on August 05, 2007, 07:52:45 PM
On June 10 - a body was recovered at the Arubay rocks. Aruba says a 7 year old boy was recovered the year before. I say it was Natalee.
I believe she was moved several times after death (sorry
...it sickens me to even think it). I do believe she WAS at the rocks at some point. Her resting place now.....the depths of the ocean. Tim and crew will find her.
Logged
GrannyToad
Scared Monkey
Offline
Posts: 192
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #772 on:
August 05, 2007, 08:10:18 PM »
Quote from: bleachedblack on August 05, 2007, 07:17:48 PM
Quote from: MsVada on August 05, 2007, 07:13:44 PM
here is the arm of a monkey....for comparison
Larger gap between radius and ulna, probably due to increased muscle mass/ weight bearing just a guess
-A- monkey. That's another good image, though.
Not all primates are the same, structures differ between species. Turn that a bit on its side an it may appear different. Again, compare fingers (phalanges) with those of the human, especially the thumb.
I did this stuff some back at university but not much with other primates. I still have a comparative bone collection around here for some other vertebrates.
Logged
Buckeye
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 5376
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #773 on:
August 05, 2007, 08:12:41 PM »
Granny
So, does this mean you believe the Venz. bone to be more primate than human??
Logged
SunFreak2
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 3251
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #774 on:
August 05, 2007, 08:14:18 PM »
Quote from: GrannyToad on August 05, 2007, 08:10:18 PM
Quote from: bleachedblack on August 05, 2007, 07:17:48 PM
Quote from: MsVada on August 05, 2007, 07:13:44 PM
here is the arm of a monkey....for comparison
Larger gap between radius and ulna, probably due to increased muscle mass/ weight bearing just a guess
-A- monkey. That's another good image, though.
Not all primates are the same, structures differ between species. Turn that a bit on its side an it may appear different. Again, compare fingers (phalanges) with those of the human, especially the thumb.
I did this stuff some back at university but not much with other primates. I still have a comparative bone collection around here for some other vertebrates.
Thanks, GT.
Logged
Buckeye
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 5376
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #775 on:
August 05, 2007, 08:15:24 PM »
Did anyone on the island let
MF
know that Lorenzo's been released?? I feel sorry for him. He has such a following. Maybe Destiny can give him her contact info.
Logged
Nut44x4
Maine - USA
Global Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
Offline
Posts: 18800
RIP Grumpy Cat :( I will miss you.
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #776 on:
August 05, 2007, 08:18:54 PM »
Quote from: Buckeye on August 05, 2007, 08:15:24 PM
Did anyone on the island let
MF
know that Lorenzo's been released?? I feel sorry for him. He has such a following. Maybe Destiny can give him her contact info.
HAHAHAAAAAA!! Good one, lol.
Logged
Brothers and Sisters, I bid you beware/Of giving your heart to a dog to tear -- Rudyard Kipling
One who doesn't trust is never deceived...
'I remained too much inside my head and ended up losing my mind' -Edgar Allen Poe
Rammstein
Scared Monkey
Offline
Posts: 451
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #777 on:
August 05, 2007, 08:19:15 PM »
Quote from: mrs. red on August 05, 2007, 08:05:26 PM
Quote from: Rammstein on August 05, 2007, 08:04:13 PM
Example:
83 year old pedophile was deemed to old/phycically to be jailed or locked in a mental facility. Thus he was convicted to be forcibly treated by a shrink, forced to take meds to suppress his tendencies and he is followed by satellite tracking 24/7 and is banned from places where children come (like parks, schools etc.) and when he comes within the vicinity of such a place then the local police is automatically alerted to this.
Example 2:
a 64 year old man has been in TBS since he accosted an 11 year old girl when he was 17. During trial leave he suspected to have done the same to a 6 year old girl. After that he was deemed untreatable and his been in TBS for 47 year
I like this system.... seems like it works. How do we get our politicans to do this
oh it is not perfect, it needs constant vigilance to make it as safe as possible. And sometimes things go wrong, but that is a small number of cases. Most who are treatable will go through full treatment, leave with supervision, leave without supervision, off site housing with supervision to off site housing without 24/7 supervision to when the treatment is final to unsupervised living. A process that takes many years to complete (and if you combine this with the risk of being deemed untreatable, you can understand why criminals dislike getting TBS).
Logged
Rule 208. Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than the question is an answer
Buckeye
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 5376
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #778 on:
August 05, 2007, 08:20:40 PM »
O/T to
Ramm
Was reading up on Dutch attitude regarding transport of drugs (swallowing cocaine balls etc). It said, the feeling was that poor people are the carriers and the goal is the shipper himself. They don't arrest the carrier (the jails would fill up) but record his info (so he can't carry again) and send him back. Article said it has put a big dent into the shippers. Is this true??
Logged
SunFreak2
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 3251
Re: Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/4/2007
«
Reply #779 on:
August 05, 2007, 08:23:18 PM »
Interesting discussions and I hate to leave......but, g'nite everyone.
Logged
Pages:
«
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
»
Go Up
Print
Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum
>
Natalee Holloway
>
LCD Archive
> Topic:
Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/5/2007
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
FORUM RULES
-----------------------------
=> Forum Rules and Tips
-----------------------------
Polls, Polls and more Polls
-----------------------------
=> Missing Persons Polls
=> Current Events/News Polls
=> Crime and Trial Polls
=> Just For Fun Polls
-----------------------------
Missing Persons - High Profile
-----------------------------
=> Missing Persons High Profile
===> Dylan Redwine, 13yrs old, last seen 11/19/12, Vallecito, CO
===> Kyron Horman - Portland Oregon
===> Caylee Marie Anthony - Florida (BODY FOUND)
=====> Caylee's Law - by State
=======> Caylee's Law - text
=======> ALABAMA
=======> ALASKA
=======> ARIZONA
=======> ARKANSAS
=======> CALIFORNIA
=======> COLORADO
=======> CONNECTICUT
=======> DELAWARE
=======> DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
=======> FLORIDA
=======> GEORGIA
=======> HAWAII
=======> IDAHO
=======> ILLINOIS
=======> INDIANA
=======> IOWA
=======> KANSAS
=======> KENTUCKY
=======> LOUISIANA
=======> MAINE
=======> MARYLAND
=======> MASSACHUSETTS
=======> MICHIGAN
=======> MINNESOTA
=======> MISSISSIPPI
=======> MISSOURI
=======> MONTANA
=======> NEBRASKA
=======> NEVADA
=======> NEW HAMPSHIRE
=======> NEW JERSEY
=======> NEW MEXICO
=======> NEW YORK
=======> NORTH CAROLINA
=======> NORTH DAKOTA
=======> OHIO
=======> OKLAHOMA
=======> OREGON
=======> PENNSYLVANIA
=======> PUERTO RICO
=======> RHODE ISLAND
=======> SOUTH CAROLINA
=======> SOUTH DAKOTA
=======> TENNESSEE
=======> TEXAS
=======> UTAH
=======> VERMONT
=======> VIRGINIA
=======> WASHINGTON
=======> WEST VIRGINIA
=======> WISCONSIN
=======> WYOMING
=====> Caylee Marie Anthony Murder Trial Archives
===> Sierra Lamar, 15yrs old, Morgan Hill, CA Missing Since March 16, 2012
===> JO ANN (JODIE) BAIN AND 3 DAUGHTERS MISSING 4/27/2012(2 murdered 2 safe)
===> Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6 yrs old missing 4/21/12 Tucson, AZ (Body Found)
===> Jennifer Kesse - Orlando/Ocoee, Florida
===> Susan Powell 28yrs old, missing 12/6/09 West Valley City, Utah
===> Michelle Loree Parker, Last Seen 11/17/11, Orlando, FL
===> Celina Cass, 11yrs old missing 7/25/11 New Hampshire
===> Aliayah Lunsford, 3yrs old, Weston, West VA, missing since 9/24/2011
===> Lisa Irwin, 10mo old missing since 10/4/2011 KC, MO
===> Robyn Gardner missing in Aruba August 2, 2011
=> Missing Persons - High Profile - Archives
-----------------------------
Virginia Area Missing and Murdered - possible connections
-----------------------------
=> Morgan Dana Harrington, 20yrs missing VA Tech 10/17/09(BODY FOUND)
=> Hannah Elizabeth Graham missing since 9/13/14 Charlottesville, VA
=> Alexis Murphy, missing since 8/3/13 Charlottesville, VA
=> Samantha Ann Clarke 19yrs. old Orange Va. Last seen 09/13/10
=> Dashad Sage Smith missing since 11/20/12 Charlottesville, VA
=> Cassandra Morton 23, Lynchburg, missing 10/10/09 body found 11/29/09
-----------------------------
High Profile Crimes and Trials (not missing persons)
-----------------------------
=> Jodi Arias trial - for the murder of Travis Alexander
=> Trial of George Zimmerman - 2nd Degree Murder of 17yr old Trayvon Martin
=> Scott Peterson Appeal of Murder Conviction
-----------------------------
Missing, Exploited and True Crime
-----------------------------
=> Missing Exploited and True Crime
===> Missing Persons Forum
=====> Missing Found or Presumed Deceased
=====> Missing Found Safe
=====> Missing Endangered Runaways
=====> Resourses, Search Groups and Fundraisers
===> Crimes Against Children, Elderly and the Disabled
===> Crimes of Passion/Anger
===> Serial Killers and Their Possible Victims
===> Unsolved Crimes
=====> Finally Solved
===> Haleigh Marie Cummings - Florida
===> Adji Desir - Florida
===> Somer Renee Thompson 7 yo, Orange Park FL 10/19/09(BODY FOUND)
===> Tracy Ocasio - Orlando/Ocoee, Florida
===> Shaniya Nicole Davis, 5 Fayetteville, NC Missing 11/10/09(BODY FOUND)
===> Holly Bobo, 20yrs old missing Parsons, TN 4/13/11
===> Hailey Dunn - 13yrs old - Colorado City, TX missing 12/27/10 (Body Found)
===> Elizabeth Olten - 9yrs, Jefferson City, MO missing 10/21/09 (BODY FOUND)
===> Lindsey Baum - McCleary, WA 6/26/09
===> Amber Leeanne Dubois 14yrs old - Escondido, CA(BODY FOUND)
===> Chelsea King, 17, Missing 2-25-2010 Rancho Bernadino CA (BODY FOUND)
===> Sandra Cantu, 8 years old - Tracy, CA(BODY FOUND)
===> Madeleine McCann - Portugal
===> Christine Marie Sheddy - missing since 11/13/2007 - Maryland(BODY FOUND)
===> Nevaeh Amyah Buchanan 5yr Monroe Michigan(BODY FOUND)
===> Gabriel Johnson 8 mo., last seen 12/26/09 Tempe AZ-San Antonio TX
===> Stacy Ann Peterson missing & Kathleen Savio murdered - Illinois
===> Zahra Clare Baker - 10yrs old Hickory, NC (Body Found)
-----------------------------
Natalee Holloway
-----------------------------
=> Natalee Holloway
=> Important Case Documents
===> Joran Statements/PV's
===> Paulus Statements/PV's
===> Deepak Statements/PV's
===> Satish Statements/PV's
===> Misc Statements/PV's
=> LCD Archive
=> Shango/Simian and other Codetalkers
-----------------------------
Current Events and Musings
-----------------------------
=> Monkey Musings / Open Discussion
=> Pop Culture Main
===> Hugely Popular TV Shows
===> Movies and Television
===> Social Media
===> Music
===> Books
===> Scared Monkeys Radio with Dana Pretzer
=> Health and Medical Issues
=> Food and Product Recalls
=> News of the Day
=> Business News
=> Sports
=> Political Forum
=> Religion (discussion and debate)
-----------------------------
The Monkey Lounge
-----------------------------
=> The Monkey Lounge
===> Fashion & Decorating
===> What's Cooking? Recipes
===> Games
=> Inspirational
===> Memorial - Gone but Never Forgotten
===> Gratefulness - Light a Candle in Prayer
===> Inspirational scriptures, songs, stories and prayers
-----------------------------
Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)
-----------------------------
=> Natalee Holloway
=> Theory and Speculation
=> Links and References Only
=> Natalee Breaking News Archive
-----------------------------
General Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)
-----------------------------
=> News Issues
=> Chit Chat
Loading...