Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08

[ldstlou]

Guy, I told Klaas last night, and now I'll tell you all too. The FBI closed Max DeVries' case yesterday. They said there was nothing they could do. They went as far as they could.

If you could, keep Yvonne and Dominique close to your hearts this holiday season and let's never forget they became VICTIMS of Aruba too.

Thank You All.

Done Rob. We have our advent wreath out and saying our nightly prayers. We will add Max and his family!

[adoronron]

Oh, puh-leeze!  Who was NOT saying it was van der Straten right from the start?  I can only think of one Aruban poster who went bananas every time she was asked anything about him.

Even Geraldo was on to vd Straten.   

Paulus only actually went to the bank once on Monday.  The other time he said he did was to cover his absence from work, not that anybody was watcing him.

By the time of the pool meeting after school, it was already a done deal and no body, no case an assured thing.  MO

Ditto.........hi Anna.

[ldstlou]

I thought he went to the bank more than once, said the lines were too long the first time? Do we have that anywhere in the archives.
One more favor...I can't remember how we determined the pool meeting was Monday after school? Was it from statements? Can anyone find that stuff? I remember we determined Monday, just can't remeber how?

[Anna]

Unfortunately, there were no laws in place in Aruba at the time to combat corruption.  I did post long ago about their attending a conference with emerging African nations, many of whom were well in advance of Aruba in this regard.

Aruba very conveniently did not adapt the Dutch law en mass but are dragging their feet passing a little legislation at a time so I seriously doubt there was or even now is any law actually making the taking of bribes illegal in Aruba.

Perhaps there is something about dereliction of duty?  I surely hope so because otherwise, I don't think they will do anything.  And I do find it odd Rudy Croes is saying this because he and Paulus are also major buddies.


Croes and Oduber are not exactly a couple of Mr. Cleans themselves.  But it is good to see them turning on each other, just hope it actually goes somewhere for a big change.

I think Uncle Jan may not be of the correct political party as recall Jossy often defended him as well?  That seems to matter more in Aruba than what you do, which party you belong to.

[Tamikosmom]

What about Dennis Jacobs?

Janet


Police officer thwarted Holloway investigation
RNW NEWS
04-12-2008

Dutch police commissioner Jan van der Straten actively frustrated investigations on the island of Aruba into the disappearance of US teenager Natalee Holloway.

Aruba's Justice Minister Rudy Croes confirmed on Thursday that Van der Straten delayed the start of investigations in order to protect his friend, Paulus van der Sloot, the father of Joran who is the main suspect in the case. Paulus was working for the Justice Ministry at the time.

Minister Croes made his public statement about the commissioner's dallying following critical remarks by Van der Straten about Aruba's police. Shortly after Natalee's disappearance in 2005, the Dutch police commissioner was overheard saying "I cannot do this to my friend Paul".

The Justice Minister says there were remarkably frequent phone conversations between Jan van der Straten and Paul van der Sloot in the first days after the American teenager went missing.

Carnival policemen
In more detailed criticism, Minister Croes accuses Commissioner Van der Straten of putting a "second rate police team" on the Holloway case. The team consisted of part-time policemen who are hired in to help the regular force during events like carnivals.

The Dutch government is also blamed by Minister Croes for giving insufficient moral support to the Aruban authorities:

"They stand by while Aruba's name is being dragged through the mud. We were asked in 2005 to hide the fact that Joran is a Dutchman. A Dutch minister - I won't say who - personally asked us to present Joran as an Aruban."

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/region/netherlands/081204-Holloway-Croes


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for Dec. 5th
updated 6:18 a.m. PT, Tues., Dec. 6, 2005

TWITTY: ... Remember, within the first 24 hours, we knew who the suspects were. We knew the persons that Natalee were taken from Carlos and Charlie‘s. We knew the license plate of the gray Honda they placed her in. We knew the condition that Natalee was in. We knew the behavior or the conduct in which they engaged in with Natalee.

And then not only that, Jane, within 72 hours, we knew that their first story was totally fabricated, that within the first 72 hours, I faced a room of 12 -- at least 12 detectives, Aruban and Dutch detectives, and a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), and they knew after we reviewed video footage from the Holiday Inn casino lobby that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. They knew that those suspects were fabricating a story from day one.

<snipped>

TWITTY: Well, Jane, something that the family knew—and we have to keep reminding everyone—after 72 hours -- 72 hours—we knew definitively that these suspects were not telling the truth. We knew that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. Of course we were becoming frustrated. Who wouldn‘t, at this point? You know, we—and what was so unbelievable about this, is they knew this information and still chose to pursue the two security guards on June the 5th.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10348437/

[SS]

I do not believe Natalee's body was found in that cage. I honestly think if it were her remains the family would have been screaming it at the top of their lungs.

Exactly and whomever allegedly bought photos would have used them in some sort of explosive documentary to prove same.

And I'm still wondering if the remains were Carpe's Jalitza Wever.

[ldstlou]

Trying to put it all together, and I am leaning towards Natalee passed at the slot house of a siezure from a date rape drug. joran freaks and gets Paulus up. Paulus is trying to figure out what to do...looks up on the computer the effects of drugs and alcohol. Natalee, expires. Gathers the boys up that morning around the pool to create their story and to figure out what to do with Natalee. Sends joran off to school and calls in van der sloot. Van der sloot is able to keep the chaperone limited to just the visibility team..no police would show up. Van der sloot and van der straaten arrange for someone to take Natalee far away in a boat. paulus makes several trips to the bank to get the money put together. They meet the person with the boat, pay him the $10,000, and Natalee is taken away where she will never be found. Deepak and joran NOT at the casino, but meeting the man with the boat. When Jug and Beth arrive, deepak and joran are getting back, sweaty and dirty.

you know what else I am REALLY curious about???!!! Remember the guy who claimed to have the frozen condom? all the talk about not having a condom? What if a used condom was part of what was disposed of and the guy was trying to scare the sloots into blackmail $$ by pretending he had kept it back as evidence?

Betcha so much stuff is finally going to make sense and all the things we were focused on...turns out to be little parts of the puzzle.

WITNESSES –


COLUMBIAN ON THE BEACH witness who claims to have seen a rape, murder and disposal of a young woman at the California sand dunes. Claims to have 2 pieces of evidence from the crime. Later discredited. See above under arrestees.


FISHERMEN - Saw a white vehicle but no activity or persons on 5-30-05 at the area around the fishermen’s huts at Hadicurari where Joran claims he took and left Natalee.


JOGGER – Jossy Mansur said that his information is that the unknown jogger near the “Marriott Hotel”/drained pond witness telephoned police with his 5-30 observations 2 or 3 days after Natalee disappeared (6-1 or 6-2), and he phoned from a public pay telephone.


JUNIOR - the landfill witness who claims to have seen a blonde woman being disposed of,and a white truck. the landfill witness said he witnessed the 3 men burying the body on 6-1. described to him that the body was that of a woman with long blonde hair. The landfill witness claimed he saw her breasts. He also noticed a jeep-like vehicle sitting close to the white truck. The landfill witness saw the 3 persons bury the blonde woman’s body in a specific spot, after which the 3 men found a blue plastic “kiddie’s pool” in the dump and placed the “kiddie’s pool” over where they buried the blonde woman. The witness also obtained the license plate nu-ber of the truck they were driving and gave it to the police, but when the police checked on the license plate number they reported that the car that license plate number was registered to “was not near the landfill.” Jossy Mansur said the license plate of the pickup truck that JUNIOR saw at the landfill has been traced to a Chevrolet “Malibu.”


RAMOS, Carlos Alberto Penata (DOB 2-25-79, Cartagena, Columbia) - the gardner witness who claims to have seen 3 boys in Deepak’s car on the dirt road by the pond at the Racquet Club on 5-30-05 at approximately 2:30 AM. Identifies Joran in front seat, Deepak in passenger seat, and unidentified male in rear seat. Claims passenger has hand up besides face, and the driver (identified as Joran) is sitting far back in the seat. His employer was Eric Mansur.
STATEMENTS to Police 7-26-05 through 8-16-05: http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=271

Thanks Sweetie!!! So much of the info is so discombobulated in my blonde head after all this time!! lol

Hey Blonde...do you remember how we determined the meeting around the pool was Monday?

[Anna]

Oh, puh-leeze!  Who was NOT saying it was van der Straten right from the start?  I can only think of one Aruban poster who went bananas every time she was asked anything about him.

Even Geraldo was on to vd Straten.   

Paulus only actually went to the bank once on Monday.  The other time he said he did was to cover his absence from work, not that anybody was watcing him.

By the time of the pool meeting after school, it was already a done deal and no body, no case an assured thing.  MO

Ditto.........hi Anna.

Great to see you, Adoronron!  And my pal Blah! 

Even in The Netherlands, there are problems with corruption in the form of light sentencing, etc. so this is not unique to Aruba in total.

[johan555]

Hey Julia, what do you have to say this time???

TodaY ?

[ldstlou]

Hey Julia, what do you have to say this time???

TodaY ?

rofl

[Dayhiker]

It's still all about tourism, IMO. It's imperative that Aruba still suffer over this case to drive even the blame. If nobody cares that tourism is down, and if tourism doesn't actually suffer, then no matter what is said or outed, there is no pressure.

Keeping this story front and center is important. Greta has done that with the last interview, and my hat's off to her!

Joran has certainly done his part to help that along as well.

Did you notice how Croes is trying to put the blame on the Dutch? He even said the Dutch told him to try and have joran seem like an Aruban, not a Dutch boy. Maybe the Arubans have finally had enough of covering for the Dutch and will stand up for themselves.

Heck, they even cast an Aruba as Joran in that Dutch Ospooring documentary. Those sumbitches are in denial and it goes all the way to Holland, just like Rudy says. You can't tell me they couldn't find a white Dutch boy to cast as Joran.

[MumInOhio]

I thought he went to the bank more than once, said the lines were too long the first time? Do we have that anywhere in the archives.
One more favor...I can't remember how we determined the pool meeting was Monday after school? Was it from statements? Can anyone find that stuff? I remember we determined Monday, just can't remeber how?

Jumping in from musical chairs with my computers...UGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

You are right...lines too long, I think?

Didn't the meeting come from Karen Jansen or some-one like that.

Sorry I can't check my notes.

[Dayhiker]

Guy, I told Klaas last night, and now I'll tell you all too. The FBI closed Max DeVries' case yesterday. They said there was nothing they could do. They went as far as they could.

If you could, keep Yvonne and Dominique close to your hearts this holiday season and let's never forget they became VICTIMS of Aruba too.

Thank You All.

Rob, thanks for all the work you did on Max's case. Let's hope his family benefits from the explosion that's about to hit Aruba, Brother.

[Keepthefaith]

I wonder if Kermit's posting of the cage pictures had anything to do with forcing Rudy's hand.  I have also always believed that Urine gave Daury's name for a reason and he named the two ALE officers for a reason.  Urine was dropping the dime on them.

As Hotshot tells me.I'll have to wait and see!Just got done reading throught the last few pages.Interesting to say the least.This has been a search for the TRUTH.Typically how does one get to the TRUTH??By observing,questioning,Logic,Deductive reasoning,and so on.Think you get the point.Forum=Open discussion!!
When i came across Scared Monkeys i was very excited that a place,and or people were continuing to keep HOPE alive in Natalee's case,as well as many others.I will be the first to admit that,i for one,do not have any answers!That is why i question.When one presents ideas i tend to take one at face value until i've been proven otherwise.If one continues to ask questions i find that Monkey like.Inquisitive creatures we are!My point being is that no one should be put down for not being in "The Know",and or asking questions when presented with theories or ideas.End point.The Moderators have done a fabulous job with all the stuff that goes on in the Monkey cage and for that i applaud them!!!

Thank You for giving so many a voice........KEEPTHEFAITH

[Dayhiker]

Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...

I thought so. Bank and a payoff!!! Right from the get-go before Beth even touched down. And we kept asking why the police would not come take a report from the chaperone!!! Now we know!! Van der sloot was already on it!!!

Let's also not forget Paulus was only a brisk few footseps away from his pal Charles Croes' Digicel offices when he went to the bank. Twice.

[Dayhiker]

]

Now what?

 
[/quote]



Now maybe they'll start to come unraveled and all the dirty slime that covered up the case will be exposed, including the scum from ATA and AHATA that were running the investigation with Antonio Carlo sitting on their board no doubt!

[ldstlou]

It's still all about tourism, IMO. It's imperative that Aruba still suffer over this case to drive even the blame. If nobody cares that tourism is down, and if tourism doesn't actually suffer, then no matter what is said or outed, there is no pressure.

Keeping this story front and center is important. Greta has done that with the last interview, and my hat's off to her!

Joran has certainly done his part to help that along as well.

Did you notice how Croes is trying to put the blame on the Dutch? He even said the Dutch told him to try and have joran seem like an Aruban, not a Dutch boy. Maybe the Arubans have finally had enough of covering for the Dutch and will stand up for themselves.

Heck, they even cast an Aruba as Joran in that Dutch Ospooring documentary. Those sumbitches are in denial and it goes all the way to Holland, just like Rudy says. You can't tell me they couldn't find a white Dutch boy to cast as Joran.

I forgot abot that!! Hope the Arubans finally stand up for themselves!

[ldstlou]

Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...

I thought so. Bank and a payoff!!! Right from the get-go before Beth even touched down. And we kept asking why the police would not come take a report from the chaperone!!! Now we know!! Van der sloot was already on it!!!

Let's also not forget Paulus was only a brisk few footseps away from his pal Charles Croes' Digicel offices when he went to the bank. Twice.

hmmmmm

[SS]

Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...

I thought so. Bank and a payoff!!! Right from the get-go before Beth even touched down. And we kept asking why the police would not come take a report from the chaperone!!! Now we know!! Van der sloot was already on it!!!

Let's also not forget Paulus was only a brisk few footseps away from his pal Charles Croes' Digicel offices when he went to the bank. Twice.

Let's not forget the bank teller who could confirm the transactions.  She suddenly died at the age of 45.

[MumInOhio]

Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...

I thought so. Bank and a payoff!!! Right from the get-go before Beth even touched down. And we kept asking why the police would not come take a report from the chaperone!!! Now we know!! Van der sloot was already on it!!!

Let's also not forget Paulus was only a brisk few footseps away from his pal Charles Croes' Digicel offices when he went to the bank. Twice.

Dayhiker...LOL...I have been trying to track this down for a couple of hours now....

CC's Fast Phones at the airport and a new mall, may have closed now?

Digicel?

SETAR owns Telearuba and is owned by a company with the government as shareholders...

So who is next door to the bank? Who owns SETAR...site down as is Telearuba...for me anyways!...Any more info would be appreciated?