Natalee Case Discussion #789 1/1/09 - 1/3/09

[Tamikosmom]

CAPS...I've added red comments to yout post above.
Are you saying that ALE put remains in the cage without the knowledge of the persistence crew/kyle?
What would be the purpose? Why hasn't ALE presented the contents of the cage then? Blackmail to keep some quiet? I don't follow..Please explain.

Kyle Kingman held a professional position on board the Persistence and ... his own words on the Natalee's Freebirds' forum tells the truth regarding the happenings encompassing the trap/cage.  Kyle may now be distancing himselves from his posts submitted the the Natalee's Freebirds' forum but ... you know the expession ... "You can deny your belly botton but ... every time you look down it is there".

It is my opinion that CAPS has been placed on the SM forum in January by Aruban higher ups to distract from the contents of the trap/cage ... that ALE had just taken possession of ... by diverting attention to other locations where Natalee Holloway's remains.

Janet

__________

KYLE KINGMAN - PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: THis is what I'm trying to figure out now. I need to know the leak! I believe Caps is only one step away from DirtyHand


CapsLockWizard
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #931 on: December 03, 2008, 04:19:56 AM »

<snipped?

Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water.

Another thing, from 2005 to 2008, we has gone through several mayor stroms that has pull sunken boat more heavy than the cage and in depth more than the cage to shore.

The cage has an Owner and is not Aruban  nor Venezuelan  and not Dutch. it is from a Colombian person and the use has it purpuse.

<snipped>

CAPS

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564838;topicseen#msg564838

[KYcat]

Johan555, can you give us any insight into what CAPS is referring to regarding an arrest this week of a major player of the game?

[Blue Moon]

CAPS...I've added red comments to yout post above.
Are you saying that ALE put remains in the cage without the knowledge of the persistence crew/kyle?
What would be the purpose? Why hasn't ALE presented the contents of the cage then? Blackmail to keep some quiet? I don't follow..Please explain.

Kyle Kingman held a professional position on board the Persistence and ... his own words on the Natalee's Freebirds' forum tells the truth regarding the happenings encompassing the trap/cage.  Kyle may now be distancing himselves from his posts submitted the the Natalee's Freebirds' forum but ... you know the expession ... "You can deny your belly botton but ... every time you look down it is there".

It is my opinion that CAPS has been placed on the SM forum in January by Aruban higher ups to distract from the contents of the trap/cage ... that ALE had just taken possession of ... by diverting attention to other locations where Natalee Holloway's remains.

Janet

__________

KYLE KINGMAN - PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: THis is what I'm trying to figure out now. I need to know the leak! I believe Caps is only one step away from DirtyHand


CapsLockWizard
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #931 on: December 03, 2008, 04:19:56 AM »

<snipped?

Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water.

Another thing, from 2005 to 2008, we has gone through several mayor stroms that has pull sunken boat more heavy than the cage and in depth more than the cage to shore.

The cage has an Owner and is not Aruban  nor Venezuelan  and not Dutch. it is from a Colombian person and the use has it purpuse.

<snipped>

CAPS

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564838;topicseen#msg564838

Janet, these two quotes really bother me.  First Caps is only one step away from DirtyHand AND caps dove down to the location the cage was.  Is Caps the brother of DirtyHand? Just thinking out loud here.

[KYcat]

Well, Johan and CAPS both left.  You know, I am tired of every time I ask a question to certain people they leave.  Maybe he left before I posted, I don't know.  But I had this same problem with OE before.

Just sayin..........

[truthseeker2]

Isn't it tomorrow that JQK and Hero Brinkman and Greta are
to descend on Aruba?

the Dutch Members of Parliament (including Brinkman) are travelling first to Curaçao today (January 2nd).

then on to Aruba, with meetings from January 5th until January 9th.
on January 11th they travel back to The Netherlands.

Thanks, caesu.  Maybe some sparks will begin to fly in the Caribbean this coming week!

[KYcat]

Well, since I am on a roll , I agree with BlueMoon that CAPS is pretty much telling us to Butt out.  Evidently we don't know what we are talking about.  We are not in the know.  I guess they are at their private site discussing what everyone is talking about here.  Glad we are worthy of discussing.

Just makes me mad that we get drivebys, if you are going to discuss this case here, THEN DISCUSS THE CASE HERE, not behind our backs.

Mods, you can delete if inappropriate, (I guess I didn't have to tell you that  )

[Buckeye]

Please Caps, I WANT to understand. Are you saying there were 2 different traps? Are you saying that what Tim Miller saw on the 29th was different than what was retrieved on Jan. 7th? Are you saying that evidence was found in the pond FIRST -- then moved to the cage(s)?

^^^BUMP^^^
So what do you all think he was telling us?

and I always thought Papiamentu was difficult...

I think Caps likes the pond idea.  It is interesting that the detective and his "vision" brother, or whatever, knew some of the basic location of the cage, before the dive.  Then the comment about decomposition (I don't agree that it starts in two hrs...especially if she was shaded or buried)...maybe he is trying to say that Natalee was taken from one place (fresh water/pond?) and placed in large cage...would still have "slime" and jean material available....but not if material had been in salt water for three years...

[San]

Well, since I am on a roll , I agree with BlueMoon that CAPS is pretty much telling us to Butt out.  Evidently we don't know what we are talking about.  We are not in the know.  I guess they are at their private site discussing what everyone is talking about here.  Glad we are worthy of discussing.

Just makes me mad that we get drivebys, if you are going to discuss this case here, THEN DISCUSS THE CASE HERE, not behind our backs.

Mods, you can delete if inappropriate, (I guess I didn't have to tell you that  )

I rather discuss the case here out in the open with everyone.

[KYcat]

Well, since I am on a roll , I agree with BlueMoon that CAPS is pretty much telling us to Butt out.  Evidently we don't know what we are talking about.  We are not in the know.  I guess they are at their private site discussing what everyone is talking about here.  Glad we are worthy of discussing.

Just makes me mad that we get drivebys, if you are going to discuss this case here, THEN DISCUSS THE CASE HERE, not behind our backs.

Mods, you can delete if inappropriate, (I guess I didn't have to tell you that  )

I rather discuss the case here out in the open with everyone.

Me, too. 

[KYcat]

Please Caps, I WANT to understand. Are you saying there were 2 different traps? Are you saying that what Tim Miller saw on the 29th was different than what was retrieved on Jan. 7th? Are you saying that evidence was found in the pond FIRST -- then moved to the cage(s)?

^^^BUMP^^^
So what do you all think he was telling us?

 
and I always thought Papiamentu was difficult...

I think Caps likes the pond idea.  It is interesting that the detective and his "vision" brother, or whatever, knew some of the basic location of the cage, before the dive.  Then the comment about decomposition (I don't agree that it starts in two hrs...especially if she was shaded or buried)...maybe he is trying to say that Natalee was taken from one place (fresh water/pond?) and placed in large cage...would still have "slime" and jean material available....but not if material had been in salt water for three years...

Who knows what he is trying to tell us?  Instead of just saying it, it's a bunch of cryptic BS.  Just say it.  And we  get slammed for questioning certain posts?  Give me a break.  How could you not be suspicious about that post?

[Buckeye]

Someone did say an Aruban diver was taking pictures.  Where exactly did the zip lock bag pictures originate?  Maybe the Arubans knew the ROV was filming.  Of course, if that was the case, why wouldn't they present the evidence and declare the case solved...Natalee kidnapped by Colombians and shoved into a post office???

[KYcat]

Sorry! I know better, could someone fix my post.  I messed up the quote stack.

[Buckeye]

Sorry! I know better, could someone fix my post.  I messed up the quote stack.

I read your reply just fine...

[Anna]

The only person whose arrest I am concerned about is Hero Brinkman, lol!  Aruba made Beth apologize for saying negative things about the manner in which they were conducting their investigation under threat to stop any investigation at all if you will recall.

They seem to think it is illegal to say Kalpoes are criminals as well, etc.  In fact, saying anything negative about Aruba seems to be just about the only crime there!

So I will wait and watch for this impending arrest but will not be holding my breath while doing so.  How many times in the past have we been told things were imminent and then absolutely nothing at all happened?  More than I can count going back to June 2005!

[Ree]

CAPS SAID

So like a said: in colombia they call those that make information up to confuse the issues of this case a SAPO.

FROM WIKI

Sapo is the Portuguese and Spanish term for a toad.

I believe CAPS is telling us that Kermie is deliberately making things up to confuse us.

[bastibro]

Isn't it tomorrow that JQK and Hero Brinkman and Greta are
to descend on Aruba?

the Dutch Members of Parliament (including Brinkman) are travelling first to Curaçao today (January 2nd).

then on to Aruba, with meetings from January 5th until January 9th.
on January 11th they travel back to The Netherlands.

Thanks, caesu.  Maybe some sparks will begin to fly in the Caribbean this coming week!

There will certainly be a lot of tension over there 

[San]

The only person whose arrest I am concerned about is Hero Brinkman, lol!  Aruba made Beth apologize for saying negative things about the manner in which they were conducting their investigation under threat to stop any investigation at all if you will recall.

They seem to think it is illegal to say Kalpoes are criminals as well, etc.  In fact, saying anything negative about Aruba seems to be just about the only crime there!

So I will wait and watch for this impending arrest but will not be holding my breath while doing so.  How many times in the past have we been told things were imminent and then absolutely nothing at all happened?  More than I can count going back to June 2005!

I agree Anna.  When people shoot their mouth off they better deliver.  I don't want to hear wait unil Hero gets down there.  Those are just words.  I want to see action.

[Blue Moon]

Isn't it tomorrow that JQK and Hero Brinkman and Greta are
to descend on Aruba?

the Dutch Members of Parliament (including Brinkman) are travelling first to Curaçao today (January 2nd).

then on to Aruba, with meetings from January 5th until January 9th.
on January 11th they travel back to The Netherlands.

Thanks, caesu.  Maybe some sparks will begin to fly in the Caribbean this coming week!

There will certainly be a lot of tension over there 

Do you think Hero will meet with Jan VDS?  How about Rudy?  I would love to be a fly on the wall in those meetings.

[Tamikosmom]

A REMINDER

Kyle Kingman's own words tells the entire Persistence story from a first hand account.  Kyle own words reveal he suspected a John Silvetti/ALE connection ... a connection that implied a conspiracy in regards to the the contents of the cage/trap and ... at some point in time after returning to the States ... Kyle became a participant in the conspiracy.

IMO

Janet.
________

KYLE KINGMAN - PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric

Kyle: The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th

Kyle: John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Kyle: Schafer is sue crazy.

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal.

Kyle: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

Kyle: I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

Klye: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle: neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

kyle: Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat. You may see a glimpse of him on the Dateline video in the survey room along with Mos standing over my shoulder.

Kyle: The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off

Kyle: We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does.  Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

Kyle: THis is what I'm trying to figure out now. I need to know the leak! I believe Caps is only one step away from DirtyHand

Kyle: I need to know what we know about Caps and Destiny. I need their names if possible.

Klye:  I did not give the information to the FBI and I'm unaware of anyone relaying the possibility to them.

Klye: I havn't spoken to Beth and don't plan to personally.


KYLE KINGMAN - SCARED MONKEYS

JANUARY 26, 2008

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332457;topicseen#msg332457
 

MARCH 19, 2008

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.   The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857;topicseen#msg366857

 
BROTHER OF BETH HOLLOWAY - SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


THE ROV IMAGES

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #408 on: November 24, 2008, 03:59:08 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555618#msg555618
 
 
Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #410 on: November 24, 2008, 04:01:55 PM »

Photos given to the FBI sent to Dave and Robin posted on the internet are NOT the
photos posted above.  These were not given to the FBI until recently.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555621#msg555621
 
++++++++++
 
Kyle Kingman
Senior Geophysical Project Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
Greater New York City Area

Current
Senior Geophysical Operations Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
 
Past
Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
 
Education
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick
 
Industry
Oil & Energy

[2NJSons_Mom]

CAPS SAID

So like a said: in colombia they call those that make information up to confuse the issues of this case a SAPO.

FROM WIKI

Sapo is the Portuguese and Spanish term for a toad.

I believe CAPS is telling us that Kermie is deliberately making things up to confuse us.

I, too, just looked up the definition.  I also found the original post where he referred to 'singing war is a lost war' (as opposed to 'sapo war is a lost war')

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3363.440