Caylee Marie Anthony-MURDER TRIAL - DAY 10 - 6/4/11

[stayhomemommy]

I will have to listen again.  Was it stated by the witnesses that there was NO death bands around the hairs stuck to the duct tape.

That would not make sense.

IMO

Janet

Janet, not every hair gets a death band. So, it could make sense. However, we haven't gotten to the duct tape hair yet. Only what was in the car.

[Blonde]

Guys, I'm confused about the hair on the duct tape. The tape was found still wrapped across Caylee's skull & was attached to her hair...right? Well, I understand the concept of hair w/o banding shown would have meant it was applied to a "living" Caylee, however it was found still attached to part if her skull which kept her mandible in place. When Caylee's remains were found, obviously she was dead, so how could all of the hairs found attached to the duct tape have not shown a deatg band? It doesn't make sense that Casey would have duct taped Caylee's nose/mouth & then ripped it off so that hair came out while Caylee was still alive, then placed that tape back across her face which ensured her mandible stayed in place (hence her tooth impression in the tape), yet not a single hair attached to the tape had a death band even though it was found on her deceased skull? This is what Baez is arguing. This is why Linda Kenney Baden stayed on as a consultant...she is married to Michael Baden. They are anti dp and trying to save Casey's life.

I believe Casey is responsible for Caylee's death. I think she'll be found guilty. I just don't think she'll get the dp. 

Titch

Could it be that only one hair with the death band was found in the trunk of Casey's vehicle by investigators following Cindy's cleaning spree and ... that one hair was proof that Caylee had been in the trunk.

The hairs stuck to the duct tape ... the duct tape which was found among other items when Caylee remains were located ... most likely had the death band but does not prove the State's case that Caylee was in the trunk.

Janet

OK so when they found Caylee in the woods they didn't have to check for the death band because she was dead .They were just trying to prove that the dead band hair was in Casey's car = Casey had her in the trunk..

[Gypsy DD]

My bet is, and I have nothing concrete to hang this on, is that Linda Kenny Baden is feeding Baez. She's remained very active in televised interviews even though she left the case.

Wow..I am very late in trying to catch up ..but CBB I just typed the same thing..LKB on the horn with Baez..that's the only thing that makes sense.

She is not working as a representative of Casey's, but as a consultant, she never left the case.
She will also get paid as a result, whereas if she if she were retained, she would not.

Personally, I think that is a scam.
 

Hi Blink!

Question:

Because LKB has been associated with this case and is a guest on every talking head show each night..does she get paid in some fashion for being on those shows or is it just for the publicity for herself an the defense ?

Of course she always skews her little comments pro-defense..I wish NG or some othe talking head would call her out on that..and say aren't you still consulting with the defense?

 

[NewfieMonkey]

Okay, I don't get it.  Wouldn't that hair that was still attached to Caylee's skull ... and the duct tape ... when the skull was found ... have a death band?  Someone explain please?  I missed everything after 10 EST. 

Not every hair on a dead body gets a death band. The witness testified that they do not understand why some do and some don't, but that it could have something to do with what growth stage it's in.

Ah ha!  Thanks stayhomemommy!      That makes me feel better about that testimony! 

You're most welcome. Which also means, though, the other hairs found without the band doesn't mean they were all transfer hair, eithers. Means they could have also been from Caylee in the truck...alive or dead. So, I hope the jury thinks about that, too.

I've always thought Caylee died in the trunk "babysitter/nanny" ... It may not have been hands on murder ... but murder nonetheless.  I too hope the jury is paying attention to all this.  I keep hearing that few of them are taking notes ... which makes me nervous!  I wish all of them were keeping timelines and notes!  Just listening I've had to make a timeline! 

[pharlap]

Okay, I don't get it.  Wouldn't that hair that was still attached to Caylee's skull ... and the duct tape ... when the skull was found ... have a death band?  Someone explain please?  I missed everything after 10 EST. 

Not every hair on a dead body gets a death band. The witness testified that they do not understand why some do and some don't, but that it could have something to do with what growth stage it's in.

Ah ha!  Thanks stayhomemommy!      That makes me feel better about that testimony! 

Thank you...... ::justice2NJ::

[Puzzler]

I will have to listen again.  Was it stated by the witnesses that there was NO death bands around the hairs stuck to the duct tape.

That would not make sense.

IMO

Janet

Janet, not every hair gets a death band. So, it could make sense. However, we haven't gotten to the duct tape hair yet. Only what was in the car.

I didn't watch this morning (taped it so will watch later today); however, didn't I just read several posts here on SM that talked about hairs in the duct tape?  Now you've said we haven't even gotten to the duct tape hair yet. 

NOW...I'm confused.

[stayhomemommy]

You're most welcome. Which also means, though, the other hairs found without the band doesn't mean they were all transfer hair, eithers. Means they could have also been from Caylee in the truck...alive or dead. So, I hope the jury thinks about that, too.

I've always thought Caylee died in the trunk "babysitter/nanny" ... It may not have been hands on murder ... but murder nonetheless.  I too hope the jury is paying attention to all this.  I keep hearing that few of them are taking notes ... which makes me nervous!  I wish all of them were keeping timelines and notes!  Just listening I've had to make a timeline! 

You know, I've thought about that, too. I'm thinking that maybe they just want to make their own opinion notes, but are going to rely on transcripts for the timeline, etc. I don't really know, but I'm guessing based solely on my own personal preference. In college, I took very little notes and relied on the reading material for the majority of the information. I guess we'll see when the veridict is read.

[stayhomemommy]

I will have to listen again.  Was it stated by the witnesses that there was NO death bands around the hairs stuck to the duct tape.

That would not make sense.

IMO

Janet

Janet, not every hair gets a death band. So, it could make sense. However, we haven't gotten to the duct tape hair yet. Only what was in the car.

I didn't watch this morning (taped it so will watch later today); however, didn't I just read several posts here on SM that talked about hairs in the duct tape?  Now you've said we haven't even gotten to the duct tape hair yet. 

NOW...I'm confused.

I think they monkeys on here might be referring to what we monkeys already know. But today's testimony didn't include the duct tape hairs. Baez tried to get other hairs in, but the state made sure they were limited to what was in the car, because the car was what had been admitted into evidence. We haven't (in the trial) gotten to finding Caylee or any evidence on her.

[Tamikosmom]

I will have to listen again.  Was it stated by the witnesses that there was NO death bands around the hairs stuck to the duct tape.

That would not make sense.

IMO

Janet

Janet, not every hair gets a death band. So, it could make sense. However, we haven't gotten to the duct tape hair yet. Only what was in the car.

Thanks stayhomemommy

Fortunately the one and only hair found by investigators in the trunk of Casey's vehicle following Cindy's clean spree revealed a death band.

Murphy's law would indicate that some of the strands of hair attached to the duct tape  should reveal a death band.

IMO

Janet

[stayhomemommy]

Janet, not every hair gets a death band. So, it could make sense. However, we haven't gotten to the duct tape hair yet. Only what was in the car.

Thanks stayhomemommy

Fortunately the one and only hair found by investigators in the trunk of Casey's vehicle following Cindy's clean spree revealed a death band.

Murphy's law would indicate that some of the strands of hair attached to the duct tape  should reveal a death band.

IMO

Janet

One would think so, unless the duct tape ripped them out before that could happen. I admit that I haven't read about the duct tape hairs yet. So, I honestly don't know.

[Tamikosmom]

I think they monkeys on here might be referring to what we monkeys already know. But today's testimony didn't include the duct tape hairs. Baez tried to get other hairs in, but the state made sure they were limited to what was in the car, because the car was what had been admitted into evidence. We haven't (in the trial) gotten to finding Caylee or any evidence on her.

 

[flutter1]

IIRC, LDB made the point in opening that Caylee was alive when the duct tape was placed over her mouth.  I think she is going to use the lack of the death band on those hairs found remaining stuck to the duct tape when her remains were found.  I don't think she is going to be able to prove to conclusively, though.

It doesn't surprise me that only one hair was found in the trunk belonging to Caylee considering the multiple layers of bagging that she was placed in as well as the meticulous cleaning attempted by Cindy once the car was recovered.  KC herself may have tried to vacuum out the trunk area after the body was disposed.   Actually, it is a miracle anything, other than fluids, were found in the trunk.  If KC had been smart enough to use a rubber storage container, ala Drew Peterson, to remove and store her daughter's body, there may have been nothing left for forensics to find. 

KC was to busy buying things for herself at Target to buy the best body disposal items, though.   

[Tamikosmom]

Page 1 of the autopsy report



Page 2 of the autopsy report

Thanks Blonde

Janet

++++

Page 1

C.1 - Duct tape still attached to scalp hairs.

[Gypsy DD]

Guys, I'm confused about the hair on the duct tape. The tape was found still wrapped across Caylee's skull & was attached to her hair...right? Well, I understand the concept of hair w/o banding shown would have meant it was applied to a "living" Caylee, however it was found still attached to part if her skull which kept her mandible in place. When Caylee's remains were found, obviously she was dead, so how could all of the hairs found attached to the duct tape have not shown a deatg band? It doesn't make sense that Casey would have duct taped Caylee's nose/mouth & then ripped it off so that hair came out while Caylee was still alive, then placed that tape back across her face which ensured her mandible stayed in place (hence her tooth impression in the tape), yet not a single hair attached to the tape had a death band even though it was found on her deceased skull? This is what Baez is arguing. This is why Linda Kenney Baden stayed on as a consultant...she is married to Michael Baden. They are anti dp and trying to save Casey's life.

I believe Casey is responsible for Caylee's death. I think she'll be found guilty. I just don't think she'll get the dp. 

 Hi Titch!

Could she be referencing  hair that was not attached to the skull, but was attached to the duct tape ?

I guess I am thinking that what the  State is doing now is establishing chain of custody for each aspect.

The duct tape may have contained hairs that were loose..as in fell out right when the duct tape was  being applied by the pulling of it across her head, face and mouth..a few hairs may have ripped out then and remained stuck to the duct tape.

The hair that was attached to the scalp was in a sort of nest at the back of her head I think.  That part may not be discussed until Dr G..and first they will have to do the chain of custody for that crime scene evidence.

I also think that not every hair from a dead person shows the death banding..but the death banding only occurs in during the early hours of decomp...so it might be possible to have hair from the head of the same dead body and still not every hair would have the deathbanding present..I DK

[NewfieMonkey]

Fox News Rachel Self just said

"In his opening Jose Baez wrote so many checks that only his client Casey Anthony can cash." 

Loved that! 

Also loved that everyone involved in the interview said the jury has so much evidence of Casey lying (including Byass telling them so) ... that when/if she takes the stand .. she will be completely disregarded.

Loved that too!

[Jerseygirl345]

[NewfieMonkey]

I really wonder if he understands how screwed he is ... and that he did it to himself with that opening statement?!

[snoopy]

The following is taken from the Caylee archives 8-26-2008 at 9:05 pm.  The poster is mammy103.  I knew we had discussed a long time ago about maggot lifecycles. So it is my assumption that the maggots found in the trash bag in Cayse's car was second generation.

At that time I had concerns that George was involved in the coverup.  I o longer feel that way just for the record.

The part about the dogs not using the back yard I think is important too. 

(this is from mammy103)
This was posted on a different site.  I thought it was interesting, but if it's not proper to post, feel free to delete it, Klaas.


If you have a queasy stomach, PLEASE DO NOT READ THIS.

I really hate to be morbid, but the documents that were released last night leave little wiggle room.

The towyard manager said that when he opened the trunk, flies flew out and there were maggots inside.

A trunk is a sealed environment. Flies will not attempt to enter something like a closed, sealed trunk to lay eggs on a pizza box. Even if that pizza box had pizza in it, it just isn't going to happen. Think about the times you've left a half-eaten hamburger on the floorboard of your car. (I'm guilty of this...commuting to work, high-stress job, forgot about the half Big Mac I left in the car for a week.) Think about the Taco Bell bag you left on the back seat...people with kids will admit that we've occasionally left food in the car and forgotten to remove it.

Sometime in their life cycle, those flies entered that trunk with Caylee's body.

I believe that Caylee's body was stored outside somewhere...somewhere that flies could have laid eggs on the corpse. It could have been stored there for as brief as several hours or as long as several days.

Casey worried that the body would be found wherever she left it. Or maybe she knew the dumpster-emptying schedule for the waste company in Orlando. At any rate, she went back to remove the body from the place she had left it, and she put it in her trunk.

Possibly, the corpse stayed in the trunk from the time she retrieved it until the second time she dumped it. The second dumping of the corpse could have been done on the evening of the 26th, early AM hours of the 27th (the time window when her car was left at Amscot, parked by the dumpster).

When she loaded the decomposing corpse into the trunk the second time, fluids leaked out. Clumps of hair fell out. Possibly decomposing flesh detached from the body. Decomposing flesh with maggots already hatching.

When she removed the body from her trunk (to possibly place in the Amscot dumpster), some of those pieces of flesh with maggots were left behind, possibly on the white garbage bag in the trunk.

This would explain why there were flies and maggots in the trunk when the towyard manager opened it.

Let's look at a generalized life cycle of the species of flies that assists in decomposition of a body (if we knew the exact species, we could be less generalized in the life cycle):

From egg to larva (maggot) is 2-5 days. Until day 5, the larvae are feeding on the body.

The larvae move away from the body to become pupae, and are adult flies on day 19 or 20. Adult flies feed on body fluids, mate immediately after emergence, and lay eggs within two days of emergence...and the cycle begins again.

So, to summarize this:

Day 1 - eggs laid.

Day 2 - eggs hatch.

Day 2 to 5 - larvae move into and around the body, feeding.

Day 6 to 19 - pupa stage, no feeding on corpse, mature flies will emerge from the hard case.

Day 20 - adult fly emerges, feeds.

Day 22 - adult fly lays eggs on corpse.

Therefore, the flies that were found in the trunk were second generation flies, as were the maggots, because the car sat sealed at the towyard for 16 days. The second generation had already emerged and begun laying eggs, which had hatched into maggot staged larvae.

I can't wait to see what a forensic entomologist will reveal about this case. I think that the transport of the corpse can be nailed down to within a couple of days using the life cycle of the flies that flew out of the trunk on July 16th.

(This is what I replied to mammy103)

mammy  this is what I have been working on for several hours.  lol  I'm not a scientist....just a mom.  I have come to the conclusion that Caylee  was moved from a temporary burial place and placed in the car on or near the 26th of June and taken to a permanent place.

I also believe she was temporarily placed in the back yard.   I believe I understood that the Anthony's to not allow the dogs to do their business in the backyard because Caylee played back their.

Maybe someone should ask George?  JMO

[Gypsy DD]

Boy, after today in court if I were Casey i would be calling for a mis trial on the grounds that my lawyer is just stoopid.......Jose' really showed what an ass he is today and also just how dumb he is,I wished when he made it a point to ask the witness about failing her test the first time she took it she could have asked him how many tests did he fail in Law school....bet there was plenty.  I cant stand that man and those things growing on the side of his head looks like side burns that grew out instead of down!

I think Casey  thinks he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I also think that she truly believes she is going to walk away from this . I believe that she thinks her lies will get her out of it just as they have kept her from ever having to accept consequences for any other thing she has done in her life...jmo
I cannot wait to see her face when she is declared guilty!!!!!!!!!

ITA..Casey thinks she is the smartest person in the room ..and she thinks she has the best legal minds available to her.

Fortunately it will be forensics that win this case and Baez is no LKB..and if she thought for one minute she could fight and win with this new science that is being allowed in you would not have been able to keep her away..pay or no pay.

Because this is groundbreaking ..the first time the deathbanding is used in court and the first time that Dr Vass' air quality is used in court in a murder trial..IF LINDA KENNY BADEN THOUGHT SHE COULD DISPUTE THOSE AND WIN SHE WOULD HAVE DONE THIS IN A NY MINUTE.  It would have been another accolade for her..so this leads me to believe she and her husband do think this is going to go in the State's favor..and hairbanding and air quality will be used in murder trials from this moment on .

 

[joesamas mama]

Guys, I'm confused about the hair on the duct tape. The tape was found still wrapped across Caylee's skull & was attached to her hair...right? Well, I understand the concept of hair w/o banding shown would have meant it was applied to a "living" Caylee, however it was found still attached to part if her skull which kept her mandible in place. When Caylee's remains were found, obviously she was dead, so how could all of the hairs found attached to the duct tape have not shown a deatg band? It doesn't make sense that Casey would have duct taped Caylee's nose/mouth & then ripped it off so that hair came out while Caylee was still alive, then placed that tape back across her face which ensured her mandible stayed in place (hence her tooth impression in the tape), yet not a single hair attached to the tape had a death band even though it was found on her deceased skull? This is what Baez is arguing. This is why Linda Kenney Baden stayed on as a consultant...she is married to Michael Baden. They are anti dp and trying to save Casey's life.

I believe Casey is responsible for Caylee's death. I think she'll be found guilty. I just don't think she'll get the dp. 

Titch

Could it be that only one hair with the death band was found in the trunk of Casey's vehicle by investigators following Cindy's cleaning spree and ... that one hair was proof that Caylee had been in the trunk.

The hairs stuck to the duct tape ... the duct tape which was found among other items when Caylee remains were located ... most likely had the death band but does not prove the State's case that Caylee was in the trunk.

Janet

OK so when they found Caylee in the woods they didn't have to check for the death band because she was dead .They were just trying to prove that the dead band hair was in Casey's car = Casey had her in the trunk..

  Thank you Blonde, that makes sense to me. I was getting really confused.