Natalee Case Discussion #833 6/2/10 - 6/4/10

[SunnyinTX]

Directly from Nancy Grace's lips last night....as we all know -----

GRACE: You know -- you know, Nicole, I thought you were going to ask an obvious question, which a lot of people have already called in with. Will this affect the Aruban prosecution?

I can tell you the answer to that is no. If an angel descended from heaven and told them sitting on a stack of bibles that they were an eyewitness to the murder of Natalee Holloway, Aruban prosecutors are not going to do anything. It doesn`t matter. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/02/ng.01.html

and what a shame that she is right!!

[thirdstrike]

Hi third! I've thought the same thing. Aruba and Joran supporters have blood on their hands, and remarkably STILL continue to twist and turn the circumstances and facts.

Hello back, CBB! 

What's interesting about this lastest case against the young sporter is that unlike Aruba, they have a body, (most likely) DNA evidence, tons of circumstantial evidence, and a govt which appears to actually give a shiz-nit about the victim and their families.  No where to run...no where to hide.  Of course the island of Aruba has to bare some responsibility in at least enabling this maniac to kill again, he now has tyo realize he's not in Kansas anymore.  He's just bought the shovel and is now being forced to pick his gravesite.  All that's left now is the digging...

[sharon]

Considering I can't decide for myself where Paulus currently resides, it might be interesting to see who else was playing at the table with that psycho freak of nature and poor Stephany.

I was also wondering along those lines.

[sharon]

And again I'm left to wonder.....if he is innocent, why is he running.

Those crazy rules of logic ))))

[thirdstrike]

Directly from Nancy Grace's lips last night....as we all know -----

GRACE: You know -- you know, Nicole, I thought you were going to ask an obvious question, which a lot of people have already called in with. Will this affect the Aruban prosecution?

I can tell you the answer to that is no. If an angel descended from heaven and told them sitting on a stack of bibles that they were an eyewitness to the murder of Natalee Holloway, Aruban prosecutors are not going to do anything. It doesn`t matter. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/02/ng.01.html

and what a shame that she is right!!

I guess the more unfortunate part to this is that no Angels would ever go near that place (Aruba).  The government is run by Satan and his staff of incompetent evil-doers...

[SunnyinTX]

http://www.diario.aw/2010/06/joran-van-der-sloot-atrobe/



Papiamentu translation:

curpa by stephany flores was pata- claw by golpi

publication: diahuebs, 3 june 2010.

categoria: general

oranjestad (aan): joran van der sloot owing to hinca her self in one chasm increible! past owing to become the sospechoso principal by one asesinato cruel in one hotel at lima, peru. quite person is ask con the is attain coin before viaha all caminda so? the contesta can is, in the same torneo at cual past owing to participa! the is play quite in poker online, y also participa in torneonan. diaranzon morning owing to come attain the curpa without life by her girlfriend stephany flores-ramirez, that was golpia serious. although still not have neither result by autopsia, police owing to revela cu the victima had very quite golpi y rasca at her cara, y some part by the curpa. the not have neither injury by hinca. the had hematoma strong at her leg y brazonan, indicando cu past owing to fight cu her aggressor, first cu past owing to die. the victima owing to worde attain throw abao, one bit by near. the double-bed had the colchon drag by near, y the camber was all reboltea. also they owing to attain several cup by plastic using, ticketnan by casino atlantic city, y more. stephany had one polo-shirt dress, y her panty. but all cos is seems by indica cu owing to attain remainder by semen, although this have to worde confirma door by test forensico. at 2005 also, joran van der sloot owing to aparece on the fechanan ey cu golpi at her curpa. kizas esey is the motibo cu the is huy afresh, before busca form for her golpinan here cura before come to anend?

thanks to everyone for all the media updates.....would someone please translate this translation for me..my head spins every time I try to read the translations

This is my "loose" translation of the translation:

It's incredible that Joran has gotten himself in more chit, the prime suspect in another murder...

Many are asking....WHERE does he get all the money for these travels??????

The victim was beaten severely...not stabbed...she had other injuries to her leg etc..and the room was a mess...the (mattress?) on the floor...indicating that she fought with her attacker...

Used plastic cups and tickets from the casino were collected...and more...

The victim was wearing a polo shirtdress and panties...

Indications are that semen was collected also, but forensic testing will determine that.

I think the last part is questioning the motive for the crime...did he beat her to death for her money so he could eat?

AGAIN...very loose translation

If someone else understands more about it, I welcome your interpretation.

TEXASMOM..thanks so much.......it is greatly appreciated!!!

[klaasend]

Considering I can't decide for myself where Paulus currently resides, it might be interesting to see who else was playing at the table with that psycho freak of nature and poor Stephany.

IMO Paulus resides in hell and Joran is soon to follow

[thirdstrike]

I think what's important now is to get him tried and convicted for this latest killing.  Understanding the importance of justice for Natalee and her family, being able to use this latest case to get him off the streets (unable to hurt anyone ever again) would be the ultimate justice anyway!  And like someone said last night...who knows?  Maybe faced with spending the rest of his days in a Peruvian jail will finally make him talk TRUTHFULLY about what happened to Natalee.  I guess that's my only real hope here...

[Puzzler]

We heard on NG show last night the Joran and Stephany left the casino and went to her car and sat in it for 37 minutes before the car left the parking lot.

I read somewhere this morning that a friend of Stephany's said she would never go off with someone she had just met and that Stephany was very concious about not doing that.

We read that date-rape drug wrappers were found in Stephany's car.

Now...if Joran walked her to her car, got in to talk a few minutes, they had a drink...which he drugged...and he waited for the drug to take effect...wouldn't that take about 37 minutes?  Then Joran could drive the car away and take Stephany into the room.  She was drugged...that's why she went with a guy she just met IMO.

Puzzler, IIRC when I researched GHB 5 years ago, it takes approx 15 - 20 mins to take effect.

Wow...thanks!  So, get her settled in the car...figure out how to put drugs in her drink (oops, forgot, he already has experience do that part), 20 mins. to take effect, a few more minutes for the drug to take effect real good, then you're up to 37 minutes.  Amazing.

After reading further posts, it does seem that getting the $5,000 from Stephany was really important.  BUT...even that desparate need does not call for such a rage killing.  All he had to do was give her enough drugs to knock her out.  Easy to take money from an unconcious person.  No...he wanted to commit this horrible murder.

I think he's crazy.  I think his father's death has made Joran worse.  Remember....Joran always tried to protect this dad (and only his dad) IMO because Joran "knew" that his dad was the only friend and the only person in his life that he could rely on.  With that person gone, I believe Joran's world turned even darker.

I want them to catch him alive.  I want him to realize that he's not smarter than everyone else. I want him to have to spend the rest of his life in prison...he's earned that.  I'm hoping that after a time in prison, he will talk (he loves to talk) and he will finally tell enough about Natalee to give the lead that is needed.  No...I don't think he will ever tell the whole truth.

He and KC have a lot of similar characteristics.  Neither of them are capable of telling the whole truth.  KC went on a "spree" right after killing Caylee - stealing from friends, writing bad checks, shopping on other people's money.  Now that Joran has killed and everyone knows it and dad not around to help any longer...wonder if Joran will go on some kind of "spree"....

[Northern Rose]

IDPs in the north looking Dutchman accused of murder in Peru
Joran Van Der Sloot entered Chile on 31 May.

"We are making all efforts to locate," said the director of the institution.

The national director of the PDI, Marcos Vasquez said that all staff in the north are looking for the Dutchman Joran Van Der Sloot, subject to the Peruvian police union on suspicion of the death of the daughter of a Lima businessman.

"Following a police request from Peru, we are making all efforts to locate him. He entered the 31st so in order that we locate. I have a figure, but in the northern sector is the maximum personal visiting hotels and residential to locate this person, "he said.

In addition, Vasquez said that the subject entered the country as she had no background in the courts, while from Peru and noted that it could use international treaties on extradition to ask the citizens Netherlands return to that country.

http://www.cooperativa.cl/pdi-busca-en-el-norte-al-holandes-acusado-de-asesinato-en-peru/prontus_nots/2010-06-03/122427.html

[SunnyinTX]

Hello everyone!! 

So, they still haven't caught this clown yet?  He's no criminal mastermind or anything.  You'd think he'd be so oblivious to the fact he's now being hunted, and simply wander into a police station asking for directions to the closest Casino.  What's taking so frickin' long?

Seriously though, this guy needs to be taken off the streets ASAP.  The more I've been reading, the more I really do believe he's killed more in between the 2005 dates and now. Maybe one should research unsolved murders on May 30th of each year...

hi TS!!  I was so hoping they would have him when I woke this morning....he can't hide for long.....when the money runs out and he can no longer pay someone will turn his ass in.......I agree....about investigating murders on 5/30 where ever he was.

[Northern Rose]

Premier Velásquez: Leaving Dutchman did not show insecurity at borders

Chef de Cabinet said that before seeking the extradition of Joran Van Der Sloot is expected to start the judicial process against him.

Javier Velásquez Quesquén Dutchman explained that the citizen, alleged murderer of the young Stephany Flores, could leave the country after committing the crime, simply because there was no indictment against him.

On the other hand, the president said Dela PCM "should not be too unfair" to think that there is no security at the borders of the country.

http://www.24horas.com.pe/politica/1275591360.php

[jen3560]

We heard on NG show last night the Joran and Stephany left the casino and went to her car and sat in it for 37 minutes before the car left the parking lot.

I read somewhere this morning that a friend of Stephany's said she would never go off with someone she had just met and that Stephany was very concious about not doing that.

We read that date-rape drug wrappers were found in Stephany's car.

Now...if Joran walked her to her car, got in to talk a few minutes, they had a drink...which he drugged...and he waited for the drug to take effect...wouldn't that take about 37 minutes?  Then Joran could drive the car away and take Stephany into the room.  She was drugged...that's why she went with a guy she just met IMO.

Puzzler, IIRC when I researched GHB 5 years ago, it takes approx 15 - 20 mins to take effect.

Wow...thanks!  So, get her settled in the car...figure out how to put drugs in her drink (oops, forgot, he already has experience do that part), 20 mins. to take effect, a few more minutes for the drug to take effect real good, then you're up to 37 minutes.  Amazing.

After reading further posts, it does seem that getting the $5,000 from Stephany was really important.  BUT...even that desparate need does not call for such a rage killing.  All he had to do was give her enough drugs to knock her out.  Easy to take money from an unconcious person.  No...he wanted to commit this horrible murder.

I think he's crazy.  I think his father's death has made Joran worse.  Remember....Joran always tried to protect this dad (and only his dad) IMO because Joran "knew" that his dad was the only friend and the only person in his life that he could rely on.  With that person gone, I believe Joran's world turned even darker.

I want them to catch him alive.  I want him to realize that he's not smarter than everyone else. I want him to have to spend the rest of his life in prison...he's earned that.  I'm hoping that after a time in prison, he will talk (he loves to talk) and he will finally tell enough about Natalee to give the lead that is needed.  No...I don't think he will ever tell the whole truth.

He and KC have a lot of similar characteristics.  Neither of them are capable of telling the whole truth.  KC went on a "spree" right after killing Caylee - stealing from friends, writing bad checks, shopping on other people's money.  Now that Joran has killed and everyone knows it and dad not around to help any longer...wonder if Joran will go on some kind of "spree"....

YW!  I agree with you words in red above.  No doubt in my mind about it.

As for him going on some sort of spree........If Jaap is correct, and Joran had no money (only the 5K he stole from Stephany), I feel it's highly possible that Joran will kill more people, in order to strip them of their money in his efforts to evade the law.  I think it's highly likely that South America is going to have a killing spree on their hands.

[yuknomenot]

Considering I can't decide for myself where Paulus currently resides, it might be interesting to see who else was playing at the table with that psycho freak of nature and poor Stephany.

IMO Paulus resides in hell and Joran is soon to follow

Is it wrong for me to hope that you are correct and that the trip there will be extraordinarily long and excrutiatingly painful.

[can]

I think what's important now is to get him tried and convicted for this latest killing.  Understanding the importance of justice for Natalee and her family, being able to use this latest case to get him off the streets (unable to hurt anyone ever again) would be the ultimate justice anyway!  And like someone said last night...who knows?  Maybe faced with spending the rest of his days in a Peruvian jail will finally make him talk TRUTHFULLY about what happened to Natalee.  I guess that's my only real hope here...

I agree about getting him off the streets.  Quickly and in the hand of the Peruvian authorities.
I'm afraid that Anita may have called on her influential relatives and others to pull out all the stops to get Joran back to Aruba and convince him to really confess, provide info. as to where Natalee is and/or evidence of the crime and have jim incarcerated in Aruba, safe from Peruvian authorities for a time. 

 

[caesu]

Joran is arrested
http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article1386189.ece/Joran_van_der_Sloot_aangehouden

[Northern Rose]

Joran van der Sloot told poker friend about murder"

Joran van der Sloot would have known earlier this week by telephone that he is guilty of the murder of 21-year-old Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez. Various sources report that the friends of Joran, says The Telegraph.

The Peruvian Tatiana Flores Stephany Ramirez was found dead Sunday in a hotel room - which was the name of Joran - from hotel Tac in Peru Miraflores. The girl was murdered with stab wounds. Joran pathological need for media attention would have been the reason for the murder of Stephany. Sunday was exactly five years ago in Aruba Natalee Holloway disappeared.

'Something terrible'
Van der Sloot, now fled to Chile, on Tuesday would have been in contact with a Dutch poker friend. Joran would have told him that he "something bad" would have done.

A few weeks ago, Joran also contact Jaap Amesz. At that time he would still have existed in Venezuela. An insider said: "Joran was done properly by that time. Jaap He told that he had plans to move from to kill." In addition, Joran in financial distress because he had a lot of money gambled. (DDH)

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/1113842/2010/06/03/Joran-van-der-Sloot-vertelde-pokervriend-over-moord.dhtml

[Northern Rose]

Van der Sloot was arrested in Santiago
The Dutchman was intensely sought in Chile, where he fled after the murder of the young Stephany Flores in Lima.

http://peru21.pe/noticia/489285/van-der-sloot-fue-capturado-santiago

[Northern Rose]

Detectives caught in Santiago PDI fugitive Perú13 Netherlands: Joran Van Der Sloot 12 was intensely searched Putre sector in the North, following confirmation was admitted for Chacalluta border.

 
SANTIAGO .- Effect of Police Investigations (PDI) arrested in Santiago in the last hour citizen Joran Van Der Sloot Netherlands (23), who is wanted in Peru for the death of 21 year old daughter of the famous race car driver and employer of that country, Ricardo Flores, "rifle", on 30 May.

 The young foreigner is accused of being the author of the death of Stephany Ramirez Flores, 21, after contacting the Atlantic City casino in Lima, and then go together to a hostel of the Republic of Panama Avenue, where hours later he published his lifeless body.

The efforts of the detectives focused on Putre sector in the highlands and the desert, after confirmation that he had entered through the border crossing Chacalluta.

http://www.estrellavalpo.cl/prontus4_noticias/site/artic/20100603/pags/20100603130600.html

[thirdstrike]

Van der Sloot was arrested in Santiago
The Dutchman was intensely sought in Chile, where he fled after the murder of the young Stephany Flores in Lima.

http://peru21.pe/noticia/489285/van-der-sloot-fue-capturado-santiago

That is Fan-f'ing-tastic!!!  It's a great day already!!!