Lively Case Discussion #603 4/21 - 4/25/2007

[Dayhiker]

A little more here from Court TV:

Jury finds nurse Melanie McGuire guilty of husband's murder

Melanie McGuire now faces 30 years to life in prison.


(Court TV) — A jury convicted a well-respected fertility clinic nurse Monday of the 2004 murder of her husband, whose dismembered remains were stuffed in the couple's set of luggage and thrown in the Chesapeake Bay.

McGuire, a registered nurse so beloved that some former patients helped pay for her defense, faces 30 years to life in prison when she is sentenced July 13.

Judge Frederick DeVesa revoked McGuire's bail until the sentencing.

William McGuire, 39, a computer analyst, was last seen alive April 28, 2004, when he and the defendant closed on their first home. In her closing argument, a prosecutor theorized that Melanie McGuire served her husband a celebratory glass of wine laced with sedatives that night and then shot him to death the next day after taking her children to preschool.

McGuire had been carrying on an affair with her married boss at the fertility clinic, Dr. Bradley Miller, for two years. Miller testified that they eventually planned to leave their spouses and marry each other.
 
Prosecutors alleged McGuire killed the victim, her husband of five years, because she feared a divorce would be expensive and her husband would battle her for custody of the children.

Developing story...

[msmarple]

O/T -

(Excerpts:)

Former Russian Leader Boris Yeltsin Dies

By JIM HEINTZ

Associated Press Writer

MOSCOW — Former President Boris Yeltsin, who hastened the collapse of the Soviet Union by scrambling atop a tank to rally opposition against a hard-line coup and later pushed Russia to embrace democracy and a market economy, died Monday at age 76. Kremlin spokesman Alexander Smirnov confirmed Yeltsin's death, and Russian news agencies cited Sergei Mironov, head of the presidential administration's medical center, as saying the former president died Monday of heart failure at the Central Clinical Hospital.

The first freely elected leader of Russia, Yeltsin was initially admired abroad for his defiance of the monolithic Communist system. But many Russians will remember him mostly for presiding over the steep decline of their nation.

Mikhail Gorbachev, the last Soviet president, summed up the complexity of Yeltsin's legacy in a condolence statement minutes after the death was announced. He referred to Yeltsin as one "on whose shoulders are both great deeds for the country and serious errors," according to the news agency Interfax.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates called Yeltsin "an important figure in Russian history."

"No Americans, at least, will forget seeing him standing on the tank outside the White House (the Russian parliament building) resisting the coup attempt," Gates said while on a visit to Moscow.

Yeltsin was a contradictory figure, rocketing to popularity in the Communist era on pledges to fight corruption — but proving unable, or unwilling, to prevent the looting of state industry as it moved into private hands during his nine years in power.

[klaasend]

Just getting info that Taco Joe lost the Melanie McGwire case. She was convicted of 1st degree murder and three other counts. Picked this up from a blog, "Melanie cryed in Joe Tacopina's arms...."

http://www.thnt.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070423/NEWS/70423012



Cop: Wife googled 'How to commit murder'
BY RICK MALWITZ
STAFF WRITER
Tuesday, March 13, 2007

At exactly 5:45:34 on April 18, 2004 a computer taken from the office of the attorney of Melanie McGuire, did a search on the words "How To Commit Murder."

That same day searches on Google and MSN search engines, were conducted on such topics as `instant poisons,` `undetectable poisons,' 'fatal digoxin doses,' and gun laws in New Jersey and Pennsylvania

(SNIPPED)

http://www.dailyrecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703130391

[Tamikosmom]

Hello everyone!!  

thirdstrike

If there is no repentance/remorse ... I have a very small hear when it comes to those who possess an Aruban agenda ... an agenda to uphold Paulus and Joran .... an agenda to uphold the "powers that be" who played a part in the corrupt investigation that has denied Natalee Holloway justice and put her family through a H--- on earth ... an agenda to create smokescreens by discrediting Natalee and her family and ... an agenda to uphold those who discredit Natalee and her family.

Janet


1 John 1:9
But God is faithful and fair. If we admit that we have sinned, he will forgive us our sins. He will forgive every wrong thing we have done.

Colossians 3:13
Forgive the things you are holding against one another. Forgive, just as the Lord forgave you.

[Tamikosmom]

Motion to quash is pretty routine.  They are just asking that the wrongful death suit be dismissed against them.  Just about every suit at least asks for this because I judge can't even do it unless they ask.  Not that the judge in this case is going to do any such thing but he couldn't even if he wanted to unless they ask.

So never hurts to ask and I am sure their attorney will give lame excuses why they should not be charged with wrongful death and then the judge will reject the motion to quash and the suit will go forward.

Now I am going to reread the post from Atticus at BFN and see what exactly he is saying because I think by adding an attorney they are some how admitting jurisdiction?  I wonder how that works!

.

Thank you Anna.

[Dayhiker]

Just getting info that Taco Joe lost the Melanie McGwire case. She was convicted of 1st degree murder and three other counts. Picked this up from a blog, "Melanie cryed in Joe Tacopina's arms...."

http://www.thnt.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070423/NEWS/70423012



Cop: Wife googled 'How to commit murder'
BY RICK MALWITZ
STAFF WRITER
Tuesday, March 13, 2007

At exactly 5:45:34 on April 18, 2004 a computer taken from the office of the attorney of Melanie McGuire, did a search on the words "How To Commit Murder."

That same day searches on Google and MSN search engines, were conducted on such topics as `instant poisons,` `undetectable poisons,' 'fatal digoxin doses,' and gun laws in New Jersey and Pennsylvania

(SNIPPED)

http://www.dailyrecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703130391

They both look evil.

[adoronron]

adoronrom ... I have been watching for ya.  LOL

I would appreciate if you would expand on the following post that you submitted to the forum the other day.

1.  What pieces of the puzzle fit together to create an image that implies Paulus was not a partipant in the events of that fateful morning?

2.  What pieces of the puzzle convince you that Paulus had a connection with Natalee on the evening of May 29, 2005 at the casino?

Thank you.

Janet


adoronron wrote:

I think when the Holloway's arrived at his door looking for Nat he had not seem Natalee since the Casino and he didn't know she might have been hurt or in bad condition.

I know this is way off from what most think. I'm just putting the puzzle together with the pieces that seem to fit adn throwing away the pieces that don't fit.

Ado

Tamikos,
1.  What pieces of the puzzle fit together to create an image that implies Paulus was not a partipant in the events of that fateful morning?
Answer - I don't think PVS would have allowed the HI story. I think J2K came up with that story on their own. If PVS knew of Natalee's condition/situation, he had nearly 24 hours to do damage control. He would have already come up with a better story for J2K, such as the "left her on the beach" story.
Were it me in PVS's situation and I knew something bad had happened, and I had decided to protect my son by coming up with a story, I sure would not have allowed Joran to be out the night after. I would have him at home making sure he understood every detail of the story we would tell the police. And I certainly wouldn't allow him to be out doing the same routine he had the night before.

2.  What pieces of the puzzle convince you that Paulus had a connection with Natalee on the evening of May 29, 2005 at the casino?
Answer - I'm not sure he had a connection with her at the casino. I should have said "if in fact he may have seen or met Natalee at the casino".

I have to attend a conference call for the next hour or so.

Ado

[Tamikosmom]

adoronrom ... I have been watching for ya.  LOL

I would appreciate if you would expand on the following post that you submitted to the forum the other day.

1.  What pieces of the puzzle fit together to create an image that implies Paulus was not a partipant in the events of that fateful morning?

2.  What pieces of the puzzle convince you that Paulus had a connection with Natalee on the evening of May 29, 2005 at the casino?

Thank you.

Janet


adoronron wrote:

I think when the Holloway's arrived at his door looking for Nat he had not seem Natalee since the Casino and he didn't know she might have been hurt or in bad condition.

I know this is way off from what most think. I'm just putting the puzzle together with the pieces that seem to fit adn throwing away the pieces that don't fit.

Ado

Tamikos,
1.  What pieces of the puzzle fit together to create an image that implies Paulus was not a partipant in the events of that fateful morning?
Answer - I don't think PVS would have allowed the HI story. I think J2K came up with that story on their own. If PVS knew of Natalee's condition/situation, he had nearly 24 hours to do damage control. He would have already come up with a better story for J2K, such as the "left her on the beach" story.
Were it me in PVS's situation and I knew something bad had happened, and I had decided to protect my son by coming up with a story, I sure would not have allowed Joran to be out the night after. I would have him at home making sure he understood every detail of the story we would tell the police. And I certainly wouldn't allow him to be out doing the same routine he had the night before.

2.  What pieces of the puzzle convince you that Paulus had a connection with Natalee on the evening of May 29, 2005 at the casino?
Answer - I'm not sure he had a connection with her at the casino. I should have said "if in fact he may have seen or met Natalee at the casino".

I have to attend a conference call for the next hour or so.

Ado

Ado ... thank you for responding.

However ... we will have to agree to disagree.

Janet

[Anna]

That same day searches on Google and MSN search engines, were conducted on such topics as `instant poisons,` `undetectable poisons,' 'fatal digoxin doses,' and gun laws in New Jersey and Pennsylvania

(SNIPPED)




They both look evil.

Yes, and they resemble like twins.  Both twins evil looking.  You could break ice cubes on that woman'a face!  Taco Joe seems to lose quite regularly or is it that he only represents the guilty?

.

[San]

That same day searches on Google and MSN search engines, were conducted on such topics as `instant poisons,` `undetectable poisons,' 'fatal digoxin doses,' and gun laws in New Jersey and Pennsylvania

(SNIPPED)

They both look evil.

Yes, and they resemble like twins.  Both twins evil looking.  You could break ice cubes on that woman'a face!  Taco Joe seems to lose quite regularly or is it that he only represents the guilty?

.

You know Anna I was looking at that picture and was saying to myself they look like twins. I'm so happy that POS lost.

[adoronron]

Ado ... thank you for responding.

However ... we will have to agree to disagree.

Janet[/quote]


Janet,
The conference call is over now.

I have no problem at all with differing points of view. And I am open to differing points of view and ideas that could change my mind.
So, why do you disagree?

Ado

[bleachedblack]

That same day searches on Google and MSN search engines, were conducted on such topics as `instant poisons,` `undetectable poisons,' 'fatal digoxin doses,' and gun laws in New Jersey and Pennsylvania

(SNIPPED)




They both look evil.

Yes, and they resemble like twins.  Both twins evil looking.  You could break ice cubes on that woman'a face!  Taco Joe seems to lose quite regularly or is it that he only represents the guilty?

.

I agree Anna I don't know at what moment in the trial this photo was taken, but you can bet the farm no jury is going to have an iota of simpathy for an alleged murderer who sits next to her lawyer....both wearing those angry poker faces. She obviously is another sociopath who
feels she is being wronged........charge up the chair.....

[bleachedblack]

Page 8 of Bon Dia I think is stating that the murder of Pitbull is going to get 8 years? Anyone here who can read Pap?

http://www.cspnv.com/archivo/pdf/April/17/A-17-4-07.pdf

[bleachedblack]

...sorry 7 years, if this is true it sure is not much for the pre-meditated "overkill"  we heard of in this case.

[Anna]

Ado,
I'm not Lalas or Tamikos but Beth stated that Natalee met BOTH Joran and his father at the casino.  At least she has that impression.

How about if Paulus did not anticipate the arrival of the Alabama Delegation so soon and was still in only the planning stages?  He likely thought he had until the next day when the first commercial flight from the Southeast arrived for he did not likely anticipate the use of a private jet arriving at eleven p.m.

Also in I think his last statement pre arrest he stated that he knew Joran was out.  Was this to give the appearance of normalcy?  Was Joran really even at the casino?  Do we only have the word of Pimps for that and friends for life types who would lie?

I tend to think Joran and Deepak were home until Charles Croes went by and saw the car there and only then did they leave.  I don't think Joran had been at the casino all evening as alleged.  He may have made an appearance to establish an alibi and appear business as usual but remember he is wearing his flip flops.  Beth also said not dressed for casino.  I wonder what she meant by that but I must conclude old clothing and flip flops as in doing some sort of dirty work instead of playing cards.

If this has not been verified by somebody other than pimps, that Joran was even at the casino, I have to wonder.  I do believe he walked the route they drove the night before from the racquet club but think he was looking for something maybe thrown from the car.  I guess you could say I question how long he was at any casino and would like to know the exact times.

Yes, Paulus would have had a better story in line by the next morning but I think he was totally taken off guard by the fast arrival of Beth and Jug and friends.  

JMO and I am not sure at what point Paulus first became aware of the problem or if he was a part of it.  My theory still, after all this time, has many alternatives.

I have lots of "if this happened" then "thus and so" but if the other happened, then something else.

All I do know is that J2K and Paulus all know what happened and at least one or more of them have to know what happened next because they caused it to happen or did it themselves.

.

[dkpen]

Hi everyone!

I Haven't posted in awhile due to illness but wanted to check in to see how things are going or if any new news out of Aruba on the Dutch investigators. Doesn't seem to be anything reported as of yet.

I think the Dutch team are simply there to close the case, as they were in the first place, to just check over the Dossiers to see if there was anything more that was missed to bring to a possible trial. Ofcourse we all know they could start a trial based on substantial evidence but I don't foresee that ever happening. The Dutch team has come to a conclussion we all don't want to see or hear, but we all know it was bound to happen. I don't have much faith in the Dutch or the Arubans.

Keeping Natalee and her family always in my thoughts and prayers.

God bless~

[Anna]

BB,

Old Sparky!

You'd think this is what Joran was facing from the way they scurry about to cover up and protect him.  Remember Anita saying that everybody wants to "hang" Joran.  I found that a very odd word for her to use.  Maybe Tamikos can find that exact quote but I think it was her speech when he was released from jail, not sure.

She used the word "hang" which is so odd considering they have no death penalty and the sentence for a minor is next to nothing compared to what a person in this country would receive.

Then when all those suicides by hanging cropped up, her words came back to me and I had to wonder if it meant anything.  I guess not but she is for sure the head Drama Queen with her claims of a death penalty where there is none.  That is why The Netherlands refuses to honor treaties they have signed with us, claiming it is because we have the death penalty.

Well, they should have thought of that before agreeing to the treaties in the first place and now should keep their word regardless of their unentitled opinion of our judicial system.

You see, they don't respect our system.  

Back to . .. Working. . . . Lurking. . . mostly lurking. . .

[Dayhiker]

They both look evil.

Yes, and they resemble like twins.  Both twins evil looking.  You could break ice cubes on that woman'a face!  Taco Joe seems to lose quite regularly or is it that he only represents the guilty?

Couldn't have said it better Anna. Ice cubes indeed. Taco has a way of attracting birds of a feather.

[Dayhiker]

Ado,
I'm not Lalas or Tamikos but Beth stated that Natalee met BOTH Joran and his father at the casino.  At least she has that impression.

And according to the last court session where Paulus lost his award money he is suspected of having two contacts with Natalee that night and morning. One would be the casino and the other... rape/disposal?

[igsigs]

Per Tjeerd on FOB

Joran will be interviewed on 24 April in the daily Dutch programme De wereld draat door. The PBS programme is mainly watched by high educated viewers who are interested in culture, politics and media.

This interview can be watched at this website on 25 April,

http://dewerelddraaitdoor.vara.nl

It has around 700.000 viewers daily.