Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/5/2007

[Destiny]

I think the getting Nat to another bar within CnC's was important because that was the process of getting her away from her group and to a more secluded and controlled location so they could provide her with the drugged drink.

And thereafter be able to keep an eye on her and help steer her in the direction the perps intended.

Wonder why they did not steer her right out the back door to the Kalpoe's car....surely there is a back door to the parking lot....(things I think about)....

No - the back door does NOT lead to the parking lot where Deepak's car was.  You have to walk out the front door of CnC and walk all the way to the end of the street then walk back behind the buildings.

Thanks Klaas....I should never assume that there is a back door to a bar in Aruba...I was working on most buildings I have visited....so....they were taking a big risk....knowing that they would have to get her out the front door to a car...no matter where it was located. 

Normally it seems that pimps would take a girl from a smaller group....but these were big risk takers with big egos...or maybe they were just stupid....

My personal *feelings* are that Nat was *chosen* days b4 the final night.  I think Paulus decided whom to seperate from the flock.

Destiny

[Observer]

Not Ben King.  It's the casino that Mike Posner owns.  Posner was pissed the video was released to the media.

Thanks Klaas..........but, I thought Posner is King? Or is that someone else? Wasn't there some type of name change because of legal trouble or am I just totally confused on that issue?

fran

Ben Vocking changes his name to Ben King and Years ago Irv Goldstein changed his name to Mike Posner..Not sure why he changed his name to posner since there are already wealthy posner's on the island.

[2NJSons_Mom]

2nj! Honey, you're shrinking! We can't have that! Here you go:


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/2njbow6.gif

Thanks, CBB...I noticed that, yesterday.  Oldfart observed that the scroll bar for some of us had disappeared.  Figured Dugga may have been tooling around behind the curtain, ya know? 

[Observer]

Hello all...I am reading backwards so excuse me if this has been asked and answered. I never understood why you all kept talking about Lorenzo except he was rumored to be jorans half brother..then the other day I read the lorenzo thread..wow...now I know why you think he was involved. I missed all those early posts about him.

So 1st question...did anyone ever check old newspaper articles to see if his dad committed suicide...and was it really a "suicide" or a suicide. lol you know what I mean.

well that thought had crossed my mind before... but it could have been a suicide...for real...

so many lies... so little time...
[/quote]

I looked for old newspapers and they are not available online. I had asked two Arubans why they thought he killed himself and they said it was a mystery. The rumor is drug abuse..But he is listed as dying on 12/21/01.
[/quote]

you is good!! lol  well...history says..if you're found hanging from a rope somewhere...probably a murder!!
[/quote]

Just in the last year Aruba has had several hangings..The last two it is quite clear that they both had one hand in there pocket. I will also never forget about the reporter who was found hung over a wall with bedsheets over her.

[klaasend]

Need to run to the store, brb

I don't know why she bothers to post her store runs. She's back before the post hits the screen! 

Yep, back now 

[Observer]

Does it seem strange to anyone that a wild donkey would go for a swim in the ocean and drown?

LOL....I was just thinking the same thing.Wasn't 2 sets of bones found?One(or 2)by a male tourist and one(or 2)by a female tourist....the one who got a hold of Tim Miller?

Yes..At least two bones were found in the water in Aruba..One of them had a horrible smell of wrotting meat.

[fran]

Not Ben King.  It's the casino that Mike Posner owns.  Posner was pissed the video was released to the media.

Thanks Klaas..........but, I thought Posner is King? Or is that someone else? Wasn't there some type of name change because of legal trouble or am I just totally confused on that issue?

fran

Ben Vocking changes his name to Ben King and Years ago Irv Goldstein changed his name to Mike Posner..Not sure why he changed his name to posner since there are already wealthy posner's on the island.

Thanks *******

I guess I got confused on who changed their name to what.

fran

[klaasend]

Fran - how is this kitty?  I'm sure CBB is working on something much fancier though 



http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub2/FranKitten.gif

[San]

I think the getting Nat to another bar within CnC's was important because that was the process of getting her away from her group and to a more secluded and controlled location so they could provide her with the drugged drink.

And thereafter be able to keep an eye on her and help steer her in the direction the perps intended.

but Car, it's pretty well established, IMO that CnC's was where she was initally drugged... I think they gave her more once they got her away.... and I also think that since he had been pretending to be a guest of the hotel and on spring break himself that she had no idea what she had done...

edit... I mean she had no idea that she wasn't going on the way to the hotel.... and if she did scream out of the window... it was to scream help only no one could hear her over the roar of the "loud car"

Also in one of the statements Deepak said he had the volume on his radio turn up loud.  It was to hide the fact that Natalee was screaming.  JMO.

[Rammstein]

I think the getting Nat to another bar within CnC's was important because that was the process of getting her away from her group and to a more secluded and controlled location so they could provide her with the drugged drink.

And thereafter be able to keep an eye on her and help steer her in the direction the perps intended.

but Car, it's pretty well established, IMO that CnC's was where she was initally drugged... I think they gave her more once they got her away.... and I also think that since he had been pretending to be a guest of the hotel and on spring break himself that she had no idea what she had done...

edit... I mean she had no idea that she wasn't going on the way to the hotel.... and if she did scream out of the window... it was to scream help only no one could hear her over the roar of the "loud car"

Also in one of the statements Deepak said he had the volume on his radio turn up loud.  It was to hide the fact that Natalee was screaming.  JMO.

if she screamed (don't know but it could be possible) then there would be no-one to hear it. After they cleared the hotel sector and drove up North I doubt there will have been anybody around to hear screams to begin with. They said (if I am not mistaken) that they saw a few cars at the lighthouse but not much else in the way of cars or people.

[Carnut]

Welcome to the forum Rammstein

Looks like your first post.

[klaasend]

Ramm - exactly.  Wasn't it in one of Deepak's PV's that he spoke of the porn video near the La Cabana and that Natalee had "had enough" and to turn it off?

[klaasend]

Welcome to the forum Rammstein

Looks like your first post.

Yes, first forum post but has been a member of the forum for over a year and posts often on the front page of SM.

[Auntiem]

I think the getting Nat to another bar within CnC's was important because that was the process of getting her away from her group and to a more secluded and controlled location so they could provide her with the drugged drink.

And thereafter be able to keep an eye on her and help steer her in the direction the perps intended.

     Do you think they realy had to get her to a secluded part of C&C to drug her??  I believe all or most of the bartenders there had the "tourist bottles" ready to drug anybody when asked by a so-called VIP.  I believe this was done to Natalee in Plain Sight, in front of all unsuspecting friends, and unsuspecting Natalee, and she went willingly, out the front door with everyone else, accepting a "cab" ride from another "vacationing student", back to their hotel.
She was a young, innocent girl, her faculties clouded from the alcohol and the drug most likely beginning to take effect, and maybe feeling a little daring doing something really innocent, hopping a cab ride from a "foreign college'' student!!

[Observer]

I think it's a good idea if we can send that picture off to someone who can distinguish between a human and a monkey arm bone..Anyone know what that specialists would be called? Anyone have any ideas? Would be nice to put this to rest once and for all.

[San]

I think the getting Nat to another bar within CnC's was important because that was the process of getting her away from her group and to a more secluded and controlled location so they could provide her with the drugged drink.

And thereafter be able to keep an eye on her and help steer her in the direction the perps intended.

but Car, it's pretty well established, IMO that CnC's was where she was initally drugged... I think they gave her more once they got her away.... and I also think that since he had been pretending to be a guest of the hotel and on spring break himself that she had no idea what she had done...

edit... I mean she had no idea that she wasn't going on the way to the hotel.... and if she did scream out of the window... it was to scream help only no one could hear her over the roar of the "loud car"

Also in one of the statements Deepak said he had the volume on his radio turn up loud.  It was to hide the fact that Natalee was screaming.  JMO.

if she screamed (don't know but it could be possible) then there would be no-one to hear it. After they cleared the hotel sector and drove up North I doubt there will have been anybody around to hear screams to begin with. They said (if I am not mistaken) that they saw a few cars at the lighthouse but not much else in the way of cars or people.

We don't know the exact point she started to scream.  If we are going by the Deepak email he said she screamed something out the window (wahoo Aruba or something like that).  I believe he said this just in case someone did hear her scream.  In my opinion she screamed.

[crazybabyborg]

Fran:


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/kitty9.gif

How's this?

[klaasend]

I think it's a good idea if we can send that picture off to someone who can distinguish between a human and a monkey arm bone..Anyone know what that specialists would be called? Anyone have any ideas? Would be nice to put this to rest once and for all.

You would think that the FBI already has the picture.  It was sent to the family back in August 2005.  I'm sure they have experts in the field.  The problem is the bone was found in Venezuela and probably no way to get in from them back then.  I imagine it's long gone by now.

[Auntiem]

    Well wasn't there some nonsense about her yelling to her friend "Aruba..WOOO             HOOO.."   and Deepak stopping and telling her to get out of the car and go with her friends.   Wasn't this crap in that movie???

[klaasend]

   Well wasn't there some nonsense about her yelling to her friend "Aruba..WOOO             HOOO.."   and Deepak stopping and telling her to get out of the car and go with her friends.   Wasn't this crap in that movie???

Something like that, yes.