Natalee Case Discussion #735 2/24/08 -2/27/08

[Buckeye]

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/misdaadjournalist/2008/02/zondag-24-febru.html

article about Peter R. in yesterdays Volkskrant.

interesting bits:

1. Peter R. wanted to trick Joran in another confession after he released the press statement on thursday to announce the broadcast on sunday. Joran wasn't mentioned in that press statement.

he hoped Joran would call Patrick.

but dutch blog VKmag found that open directory and there it showed the name Joran - so that trick failed.

2. when Peter R. showed the tapes to Hans Mos, Mos said he probably wouldn't arrest Joran because it wasn't murder but disposing of body.
back in the netherlands Peter R. let Mos know that they would do one more car-taping.
Mos really didn't wanted anything to do with it, because his involvement would render the the tapes not admissable. Mos said that Peter R. should have known better.

3. after Peter R. watched the last tapings he saw Joran behaving differently. like that he was fed up with talking about it. so Peter R. decided that this really was the last taping.

Thanks caesu.
 I follow this site but had a hard time translating this posting.  So, Peter's plan was to "air" info about a hidden camera used in the case, without mentioning names.  He hoped Joran would see the announcement and call Patrick.  But the other Dutch site found the transcript of Mos, that was not suppose to be posted (?security breach?) and Joran's name was released?

[Buckeye]

quote author=Buckeye link=topic=2641.msg355009#msg355009 date=1203870075]

Posted at BFN:

From a Dutch poster in the comments section on my hollowaycase.com site:

On tape, but not in the transcript: "I think she's had something in her drink"

In the transcript of the Joran and Patrick tapes Joran is saying, on january 16: Still, still, she's not doing anything. He ['Daury'] says "What happened?" And I said, "I don't know either, man, I don't know either."

At that point Joran is interrupted by Patrick, asking if he tried to resuscitate Natalee. Also there is pretty much noise from the car. But I'm 90%-95% sure Joran is actually saying: I said, "I don't know either, man, I don't know either, I think she's got something in her drink".
That addition was also left out in the dutch subtitles. It can be heard in a clip on the URL that I put as 'homepage' (quod non) at 01'09"

This might shed some light on why Joran called no police or ambulance: he may have been afraid that he would be blamed for that 'something', whether or not he had anything to do with it. However, if things happened as he told in that car, he thought of himself first.

Here's the part he is referring to:

J: So he came to there.  And he says, "Joran, what have you done? But she looks so sweet, you know?"
 
P: And she's just lying still?
 
J: Still, still, she's not doing anything. He says "What happened?" And I said, "I don't know either, man, I don't know either."

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/media/devriestape.htm

The Dutch poster is quoting the 1:09 mark of the following link.  Can any of our Dutch posters hear anything??


I've listened to it many times; I really don't hear anything like "iets" / '" something". This is what I heard (and 4 other people who I've asked without telling what they should hear ...):

"I don't know man, I don't know. I think she's had too much to drink" ("Ik denk dat ze te veel te drinken heeft gehad").

Thanks GBMW (and thanks to your "sleuthy" friends).  The initial talk, on a different blog, was more damaging.  It seems the final consensus, is as you determined.

[GBMW]

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/misdaadjournalist/2008/02/zondag-24-febru.html

article about Peter R. in yesterdays Volkskrant.

interesting bits:

1. Peter R. wanted to trick Joran in another confession after he released the press statement on thursday to announce the broadcast on sunday. Joran wasn't mentioned in that press statement.

he hoped Joran would call Patrick.

but dutch blog VKmag found that open directory and there it showed the name Joran - so that trick failed.

2. when Peter R. showed the tapes to Hans Mos, Mos said he probably wouldn't arrest Joran because it wasn't murder but disposing of body.
back in the netherlands Peter R. let Mos know that they would do one more car-taping.
Mos really didn't wanted anything to do with it, because his involvement would render the the tapes not admissable. Mos said that Peter R. should have known better.

3. after Peter R. watched the last tapings he saw Joran behaving differently. like that he was fed up with talking about it. so Peter R. decided that this really was the last taping.

Anyone want to read the full article? Let me know & I'll mail the article to you....(can't post it now; attachement name will give away personal details of me that I don't want to be online). Or I can post it when I get home tonight...

[Buckeye]

EuroRobert

Great news about Beth's book.  The tape is odd.

Mum

Jossy and statement here:

http://blogsfornatalee.com/2005/08/26/freddie-locoman-pimp-questioned-before-sells-sex-video/


GBMW

Is the summary of the article accurate?  Maybe you could post later.  If it's posted, then it can be run through a translator without having to type it in.  I would like to see it, but if a summary is accurate, I would trust a "real" translation, over the "online" version.

[Buckeye]

July & August 2005 Watersports Update


Tattoo Party Boat has a new owner. Perri van Dongen purchased the Tattoo party boat from previous owner Marcus Wiggins (Aruba Adventures). Perri, having worked for Aruba Adventure for a while, moved on to open a broker’s agency and his first client was Tattoo. Aruba Adventures now operate “Mi Dushi” and the party buses, known as Kukoo Kunuku Paranda Tours.


The above is from agents.aruba.com 

Thanks BettyLynn and welcome.  I remember the Tattoo being for sale during everything.  Guess they sold it.

[EURobert]

quote author=Buckeye link=topic=2641.msg355009#msg355009 date=1203870075]

Posted at BFN:

From a Dutch poster in the comments section on my hollowaycase.com site:

On tape, but not in the transcript: "I think she's had something in her drink"

In the transcript of the Joran and Patrick tapes Joran is saying, on january 16: Still, still, she's not doing anything. He ['Daury'] says "What happened?" And I said, "I don't know either, man, I don't know either."

At that point Joran is interrupted by Patrick, asking if he tried to resuscitate Natalee. Also there is pretty much noise from the car. But I'm 90%-95% sure Joran is actually saying: I said, "I don't know either, man, I don't know either, I think she's got something in her drink".
That addition was also left out in the dutch subtitles. It can be heard in a clip on the URL that I put as 'homepage' (quod non) at 01'09"

This might shed some light on why Joran called no police or ambulance: he may have been afraid that he would be blamed for that 'something', whether or not he had anything to do with it. However, if things happened as he told in that car, he thought of himself first.

Here's the part he is referring to:

J: So he came to there.  And he says, "Joran, what have you done? But she looks so sweet, you know?"
 
P: And she's just lying still?
 
J: Still, still, she's not doing anything. He says "What happened?" And I said, "I don't know either, man, I don't know either."

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/media/devriestape.htm

The Dutch poster is quoting the 1:09 mark of the following link.  Can any of our Dutch posters hear anything??


I've listened to it many times; I really don't hear anything like "iets" / '" something". This is what I heard (and 4 other people who I've asked without telling what they should hear ...):

"I don't know man, I don't know. I think she's had too much to drink" ("Ik denk dat ze te veel te drinken heeft gehad").

Thanks GBMW (and thanks to your "sleuthy" friends).  The initial talk, on a different blog, was more damaging.  It seems the final consensus, is as you determined.

Just listened to the video again with my headphones on and the left channel out (to block the traffic-noise out). I agree with what is posted above here. Joran indeed says: "Ik denk dat ze te veel te drinken heeft gehad." (I think she's had too much to drink.) So considder my previous post as not posted....

[Buckeye]

Thanks EuroRobert.

[EURobert]

Thanks EuroRobert.

You're welcome!

[MumInOhio]

Thanks Buckeye...I have saved it....

[MumInOhio]

Can anyone tell me if the picture of a grey car at the back of Freddy’s house is a Toyota, please?..TIA

Aruban Evidence, Places by SunFreak …house shows a grey car
Deepak’s is a Honda.

Scroll down to houses after hotels and casinos….


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=255.0

[Bearlyhere]

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/misdaadjournalist/2008/02/zondag-24-febru.html

article about Peter R. in yesterdays Volkskrant.

interesting bits:

1. Peter R. wanted to trick Joran in another confession after he released the press statement on thursday to announce the broadcast on sunday. Joran wasn't mentioned in that press statement.

he hoped Joran would call Patrick.

but dutch blog VKmag found that open directory and there it showed the name Joran - so that trick failed.

2. when Peter R. showed the tapes to Hans Mos, Mos said he probably wouldn't arrest Joran because it wasn't murder but disposing of body.
back in the netherlands Peter R. let Mos know that they would do one more car-taping.
Mos really didn't wanted anything to do with it, because his involvement would render the the tapes not admissable. Mos said that Peter R. should have known better.

3. after Peter R. watched the last tapings he saw Joran behaving differently. like that he was fed up with talking about it. so Peter R. decided that this really was the last taping.

Thanks caesu.
 I follow this site but had a hard time translating this posting.  So, Peter's plan was to "air" info about a hidden camera used in the case, without mentioning names.  He hoped Joran would see the announcement and call Patrick.  But the other Dutch site found the transcript of Mos, that was not suppose to be posted (?security breach?) and Joran's name was released?

I thought Joran did call Patrick and talk to him for 20 minutes after he heard about the taping. But of course, he knew then.

If it's not ALE spilling the beans to Joran (on purpose?) it's the media to get the bucks.  The idea being not to help Natalee but to help their own cause.  WTH  Why are they cashing in on the girl, don't they have hearts?  Good thing she has a lot of monkeys watching out for her.

I noticed the change in attitude and wondered if he suspected something at that point and then started making things up.  If we could see the tape from start to finish, we may be able to tell when he starts really lying.

[msmarple]

http://www.amigoe.com/english/    02/22/2008

IMF: Aruba more vulnerable due to increasing national debt 

ORANJESTAD – In comparison to other countries in the region, Aruba is economically well off and the prospects are favourable.  But ‘dark clouds are still gathered over the island: Aruba has become extra vulnerable due to the increasing national debt, and without adjusting the General Pension Insurance (aov), the fund will be exhausted in 2020. 

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) concluded this.  The IMF praises Aruba in the report for her promotion of an open economy and ‘market oriented’ policy, which led to an economic growth and stability.  Aruba has nevertheless become more vulnerable for extreme shocks, and now after the heavy dependency on the tourism, the national debt continues to grow.   

IMMEDIATE ACTION

In order to prevent that the debt increases further, IMF thinks that the island has to take ‘immediate action’; like solving the problems with the national insurance company AZV.  “The government has indicated that they are going to cover the 2008 deficit with the intended measures, but considering the extent of the debt, that would be a challenge”, states the report.  IMF also warns for ‘not to slacken the reins again’ after ‘solving the current debt too fast’.  Due to among others the deficit of the AZV, the government has indicated that a balanced budget can only be achieved in 2012 or later.  The IMF presses for 2009, like the government first wanted.  The IMF is of the opinion that to achieve this, the government can better reduce the huge civil service, other than freezing the salaries.  The government told the IMF though that considering the elections in 2009, she doesn’t want extra cut backs on top of the already introduced freeze on the recruitment of staff. 

The IMF finally warns for the exhaustion of the AOV pension fund.  To prevent the fund to be exhausted in 12 years already, Aruba must increase the pensionable age. The government is willing to increase this from 60 to 62, but the government does not have sufficient public support for this.   

[Nut44x4]

Can anyone tell me if the picture of a grey car at the back of Freddy’s house is a Toyota, please?..TIA

Aruban Evidence, Places by SunFreak …house shows a grey car
Deepak’s is a Honda.

Scroll down to houses after hotels and casinos….


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=255.0

I would need to see the front or back in order to be sure it is a Honda, but I can say that it is NOT Deepak's car...for sure.

[Nut44x4]

Can anyone tell me if the picture of a grey car at the back of Freddy’s house is a Toyota, please?..TIA

Aruban Evidence, Places by SunFreak …house shows a grey car
Deepak’s is a Honda.

Scroll down to houses after hotels and casinos….


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=255.0

I would need to see the front or back in order to be sure it is a ToyotaHonda, but I can say that it is NOT Deepak's car...for sure.

Well, I totally effed up that post, lol...and totally misunderstood your question, LOL! 

[msmarple]

http://news.diario-aruba.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1187&Itemid=30

Sugerencia na Merca pa tur mucha muher mira e confesion di Joran       

Monday, 25 February 2008 

ORANJESTAD (AAN): E confesion di Joran van der Sloot, cu a pasa den un programa cu a kibra tur record di rating na Hulanda, cu hasta riba un Dialuna a hala audiencia grandi na Merca pa un edicion special di 20/20 na ABC, di awor en adelante por worde usa como un advertencia pa tur mucha muher rond mundo cu ta prepara pa bay pasa vakantie nan so of cu nan amiganan.

Esey ta loke un publicacion na Merca a divulga den fin di siman. Nan ta haya cu tur mucha muher cu ta prepara pa bay Mexico of otro lugar pa spring break, tin di worde rekeri pa mira e video di e confesion di e macamba Joran van der Sloot.

E macamba Hulandes cu a core bay sconde awor na Alemania, a bira e hoben mas odia rond mundo, y e momento a yega pa e ‘come clean’ y bin dilanti y admiti tur loke e sa.
E hoben studiante aki, kende ta gamble miles di Euro tur anochi den Casino, a revela claramente kico el a haci cu Natalee Holloway na Aruba. Ta parce cu pa e sistema hudicial di Aruba y Antiyas, esey no ta suficiente pa e worde deteni.

Sinembargo e video ta potente! E columnista Kathy Gibbons di e corant Traverse City Record na Michigan, a bay asina leu, di exigi pa tur mucha muher na Merca mira e grabacion ey!
El a mustra con Joran tabata arogante, y no tabatin ningun compasion pa Natalee. Tur cos tabata importante solamente pa Joran.

Segun Gibbons, e ta djis pensa riba mucha muhernan cu ta bay pa springbreak, cu ta sali di Merca y ta yega na otro paisnan unda nan ta bebe hunto cu amigonan. Nan ta bay pa lugarnan cu no ta familiar, y ta bebe, y pensando cu “nada lo por pasa cu mi”, y asina ta bebe bay goal.

Mucha muhernan Mericano cu ta bay riba Springbreak, ta keda excita cu nan por bay clubnan tur anochi. E mayornan mes ta preocupa, pero muhcanan no. Pues kizas e video aki lo por yuda nan habri nan wowo, pa evita cu cosnan asina ta sigui ripiti. Ken por a pensa? Joran su confesion por bira un “Educational Video”?

Online Pap translation:

sugerencia at merca for all child muher see the confesion of joran

monday, 25 february 2008

oranjestad (aan): the confesion of joran van der sloot, cu owing to happen in one declaration of policy cu owing to break all record of rating at the netherlands, cu even on one monday owing to wing audiencia big at merca for one edicion special of 20/20 at abc, of now provided that adelante can worde using because; one advertencia for all child muher rond world cu is prepara for bay happen vakantie they only or cu they amiganan.

esey is thing one publicacion at merca owing to divulga in end of week. they're achieve cu all child muher cu is prepara for bay mexico or another lugar for spring break, have of worde rekeri for see the video of the confesion of the macamba joran van der sloot.

the macamba dutch cu owing to core bay sconde now at alemania, owing to become the young more hate rond world, y the instant owing to arrive for her ‘come clean’ y come fast y admiti all thing the know.
the young student here, that is gamble thousand of euro all night in casino, owing to revela claramente kico past owing to haci cu natalee holloway at aruba. is seems cu for her sistema hudicial of aruba y antiyas, esey do not sufficient for her worde deteni.

sinembargo the video is powerful! the columnista kathy gibbons of the corant traverse city record at michigan, owing to bay so far, of exigi for all child muher at merca see the grabacion ey!
past owing to show con joran was arrogant, y not had none compasion for natalee. all cos was important only for joran.

according gibbons, the is immidiately think on child muhernan cu is bay for springbreak, cu is leave of merca y is arrive at another paisnan where they're drink together cu amigonan. they're bay for lugarnan cu do not familiar, y is drink, y think cu “nada will can happen cu mi”, y so is drink bay goal.

child muhernan mericano cu is bay on springbreak, is stay excita cu they can bay clubnan all night. the parents self is preocupa, but muhcanan not. then kizas the video here will can help they open they eye, for evita cu cosnan so is follow ripiti. that can owing to think? joran his confesion maybe one “educational video”?

* * *

[MumInOhio]

Can anyone tell me if the picture of a grey car at the back of Freddy’s house is a Toyota, please?..TIA

Aruban Evidence, Places by SunFreak …house shows a grey car
Deepak’s is a Honda.

Scroll down to houses after hotels and casinos….


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=255.0

I would need to see the front or back in order to be sure it is a ToyotaHonda, but I can say that it is NOT Deepak's car...for sure.

Well, I totally effed up that post, lol...and totally misunderstood your question, LOL! 

That's OK Nut...there are two entries in the Dr Phil log about a Toyoto on 6/28, I think, so they are not referring to Deepak's car.

In the pic of Freddy's house is a gray car...and I am wondering if it might be a Toyoto?

LOL...I know the car at Freddy's is not Deepak's....

[GBMW]

Patrick of of the Eem Thursday morning (local time) have been heard as a witness for the research in the case Natalee Holloway. Police force and judicial authorities on Aruba have confirmed that. According to the Public Prosecution Service (OM) he has discussed voluntarily the invitation closer give explanation concerning the undercoveroperatie in which he closed at Joran of of the consents could elicit. Speculation earlier communicated will consider that of of the Eem be fixed, it Public Prosecution Service now as a plain nonsense. Even if after crime report donor Peter R. de Vries the prerecordings of the infiltrant involved by him at Public Prosecution Service had handed in, of of the Eem it had been prepared talk. The declaration which has taken off of of the Eem, is added to the file and uses for a possible lawsuit. Or that, communicates justice comes there after locking of the research. Tips would come in still almost daily at Public Prosecution Service. Twenty inspectors examine that.


Message from ANP (translated via Babel Fish); it says here that 20 people are working on the case? Does anyone know what happened to the other 5? Or are 20 people looking into the tips & 25 people working on the case itself?

I can imagine a lot of tips are coming in after the show and to check everything would take a lot of people....but I'm afraid it's just 20 people working on the case in total...

[Nut44x4]

A couple of interesting comments at the 24ora.....

posted by:penduchinan
the berdad one sun person have the. the maniatico psicopata owing to rape the child, the know with the child will denuncie. the la kill the child. is jama papie, papie is jega look at situation, is bise go home y look for kontacto with amigonan matty. at waystreet is msg amigonan for they sende the computer for chat on one situation with owing to go left. 4or is chat is jega at one date for 10or of morning for work one verklaring, fast advocate. with another word daddy or duary owing to stay with body. the jeep of daddy ever owing to wordo konfiska y wordo listra for algo, then eyden the answer of all enigma is. punt uit. everybody know with the body owing to wordo gedump in sea, talvez have to look for in cost of panama or serka cost colombia, depende of the stroom the day ey. punt is, joran of, the is go cemetery with the name with esun with owing to jude. for that will do you sakrifica so????????? come across


posted by:cienfuegos
the body of nathalee, if the is dead, is bury behind the "duinen" east of lighthouse blanco, california. they owing to hanja one cellular of family van der sloot ey slow, one month after with nathaly owing to desaparese. is now the news owing to leave at ready. father van der sloot self, 'in person' owing to look for the cellular serka the person with owing to hanje. om is at height of this, but have the tip skondi for prensa y people. as wait for they throw up algo afor for place full the gang of yoran behind tralie. the father also. the owing to go look for the cel, dus achterhouding van bewijsmateriaal in one affair penal. y still om is lag'e walk ront? come across


And of course there are some that are still holding onto the Med-Jet story .....unbelievable.
http://www.24ora.com/content/view/3913/1/

[GBMW]

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/misdaadjournalist/2008/02/zondag-24-febru.html

article about Peter R. in yesterdays Volkskrant.

interesting bits:

1. Peter R. wanted to trick Joran in another confession after he released the press statement on thursday to announce the broadcast on sunday. Joran wasn't mentioned in that press statement.

he hoped Joran would call Patrick.

but dutch blog VKmag found that open directory and there it showed the name Joran - so that trick failed.

2. when Peter R. showed the tapes to Hans Mos, Mos said he probably wouldn't arrest Joran because it wasn't murder but disposing of body.
back in the netherlands Peter R. let Mos know that they would do one more car-taping.
Mos really didn't wanted anything to do with it, because his involvement would render the the tapes not admissable. Mos said that Peter R. should have known better.

3. after Peter R. watched the last tapings he saw Joran behaving differently. like that he was fed up with talking about it. so Peter R. decided that this really was the last taping.

Thanks caesu.
 I follow this site but had a hard time translating this posting.  So, Peter's plan was to "air" info about a hidden camera used in the case, without mentioning names.  He hoped Joran would see the announcement and call Patrick.  But the other Dutch site found the transcript of Mos, that was not suppose to be posted (?security breach?) and Joran's name was released?

I thought Joran did call Patrick and talk to him for 20 minutes after he heard about the taping. But of course, he knew then.

If it's not ALE spilling the beans to Joran (on purpose?) it's the media to get the bucks.  The idea being not to help Natalee but to help their own cause.  WTH  Why are they cashing in on the girl, don't they have hearts?  Good thing she has a lot of monkeys watching out for her.

I noticed the change in attitude and wondered if he suspected something at that point and then started making things up.  If we could see the tape from start to finish, we may be able to tell when he starts really lying.

His attitude probably changed because he told the story a couple of times already; he got tired of talking about it for the ... time. Peter R. de Vries mentioned this also in several interviews. That & the fact that Patrick found it more and more difficult made them decide to stop filming. If they continued Joran probably would have figured out something was up. If he was really suspicious he would have asked Patrick about it / made some comment.

It's too bad most people on this forum don't understand dutch...hearing Joran and understanding everything is a lot different than interpreting Joran with english subtitles. For instance you can hear / see a bit that Joran is lying when he mentions the name Daury; he's just saying the name to have given a name to Patrick so he can continue his story.

 

[Nut44x4]

I do not have to understand Dutch to know how to read and understand facial expressions or hear tones of a voice . It was as clear as day for me...as it was for many of us here.