Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 - 3/25/08

[wreck]

I do not think Steve Croes is the 5th suspect.  He does not fit all the criteria..yet. I at one time thought that too, but not now.

I guess I've just tuned it out for some reason -- but, just what is the significance of the "5th" suspect???? It has been a topic way before "Fin."  Thanks for cluing me in!

[Rob]

Klaas and *******

On the "Dutch" thread, I think johan thinks the photoshopped VDS house picture is the real one and the real picture has "new" houses built.  I tried to explain but I think someone needs to post "the real" picture and the possible date of the shopped one.  Geesh....I thought Shango was hard.....I might just have to travel to the Netherlands to try and practice my new "almost" language, when this is over.   

Klaas can you point me to which is which or post here also please.  I have a long time question that I am trying to figure out.  thanks

The photos are recently posted in the Dutch thead:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.msg367280#new

A little background on the two different Sloot compound pics.  The original picture shows the houses next door to the Sloots, etc.  The photoshopped pic has the neighbor's homes photoshopped out plus some other things.  I believe the photoshopped picture was found on the Judicial Inc website.

OK, taking the picture of the non photoshopped house-
When Beth and Greta arrived unexpectedly at the gate and were invited in to the VDS home, Paul emerged from the bushes and there was a 'front door' behind him.  That couldn't have been the main living area, but for the life of me, I can't figure out which building he emerged from from this shot.  Where is the big gate, is it blocked by the truck in these pictures? The ciruclar driveway? where is it?  I just can't get it in my mind.

[texasmom]

I do not think Steve Croes is the 5th suspect.  He does not fit all the criteria..yet. I at one time thought that too, but not now.

I guess I've just tuned it out for some reason -- but, just what is the significance of the "5th" suspect???? It has been a topic way before "Fin."  Thanks for cluing me in!

It's from the Shango riddle, if no one else posts it first I'll find it for you.

[Dayhiker]

Caesu, I'd like to see what the comments are by the OM in this article. I thought the OM wanted Joran retained and the judge wouldn't allow it.

Would the OM in this case be Hans Mos or Dop Kruimel? TIA for any help you can give.

not sure how this exactly works.
but the OM can keep someone detained for 48 hours.
after that a judge (rechter-commissaris) has to decided wether the detainment can be extended.
this time Hans Mos didn't see enough evidence to ask a judge for a extension of the detainment of Hendrik Croes.

literally is says: "after studying statements of witnesses the OM saw no reason to keep him longer detained".
but it should say i think: "didn't see reason to ask a judge for a extension".

on 24ora Mos said he wasn't sure if Hendrik Croes did hit the policeman.
but he was sure that Hendrik Croes drove off. but that isn't enough to keep him detained.
he might still be a suspect but not a dangerous suspect or someone who might flee.
but i think the police union will keep pressing the case against Hendrik Croes as he is the attorney for the government in the case against the striking state employees (including the police).

My bad Caesu! I thought the article was about Joran but I see now it is about Hendrik Croes. From what I gather Hans is tip-toeing around this one. In the big article they are talking about diverting passenger planes to Curacao and Bonnaire. That's not going to make for happy island vacationers!

[AZSunny]

Klaas and *******

AZSunny - does this help?

Yes, it does, thanks.  So PVDS was emerging from the parents bedroom area.  It appeared in the pictures that this was a longer building. 

[texasmom]

I do not think Steve Croes is the 5th suspect.  He does not fit all the criteria..yet. I at one time thought that too, but not now.

I guess I've just tuned it out for some reason -- but, just what is the significance of the "5th" suspect???? It has been a topic way before "Fin."  Thanks for cluing me in!

It's from the Shango riddle, if no one else posts it first I'll find it for you.

Correction, it was a post/s by Simian; there has been major discussion and investigation of the 5th in the Shango/Simian Thread.  If Lala's or Mum had been here they probably know the posts by heart!

I didn't find the actual text yet, but this is a quote from COLOMBO in discussion a few days ago:

Quote from: COLOMBO on March 17, 2008, 06:08:08 AM

consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day

If you've never been to the Shango/Simian thread there's alot of interesting discussion there about the riddles and cryptic posts of Shango and Simian; just be prepared to get confused.
 

[Lala'sMom]

I do not think Steve Croes is the 5th suspect.  He does not fit all the criteria..yet. I at one time thought that too, but not now.

I guess I've just tuned it out for some reason -- but, just what is the significance of the "5th" suspect???? It has been a topic way before "Fin."  Thanks for cluing me in!

Actually this is only my opinion and nothing more...but to me Simian was trying to place the majority of the blame for what happened that night on this 5th person.  It deflected away from Joran...in my opinion.  In reality, I think it simply means there was another person that was involved in this and has thus far gotten away from being imciminated.  That would fit several people...people that...believe it or not...fit some of the details in each person.  For example, it could be either GVC, Guido, LVR, Freddy, Steve, or Paulus.   This is a hot topic in the Shango thread.  Each one of these have been debated as to being the 5th.  Many think the Shango thread is there for decoding only the Shango posts...it is there for that...but we talk about all kinds of things over there.  There are some very intelligent people that post there and they rarely get any kudos for their efforts.  Lots of info about many other subjects and we are not a bunch of looneys either...well some of us are...but you can look past me and see some really smart monkeys over there.  Colombo has been very persisitent in his thoughts about Simian and Shango as have others.  Mum has done extensive research on several subjects.  She is the one that found so much evidence on Jean Akers for us once.  Capslock has been working on his theory there too...I think some of our newer monkeys are busy working out their ideas as well.  As Sirensong said the other day...we have been hopping over there!

[texasmom]

Yooo hoooo Lala's, tell Wreck about the 5th suspect; please.  You are much better than I at that subject.

 

[Lala'sMom]

I do not think Steve Croes is the 5th suspect.  He does not fit all the criteria..yet. I at one time thought that too, but not now.

I guess I've just tuned it out for some reason -- but, just what is the significance of the "5th" suspect???? It has been a topic way before "Fin."  Thanks for cluing me in!

It's from the Shango riddle, if no one else posts it first I'll find it for you.

Correction, it was a post/s by Simian; there has been major discussion and investigation of the 5th in the Shango/Simian Thread.  If Lala's or Mum had been here they probably know the posts by heart!

I didn't find the actual text yet, but this is a quote from COLOMBO in discussion a few days ago:

Quote from: COLOMBO on March 17, 2008, 06:08:08 AM

consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day
[/b]
If you've never been to the Shango/Simian thread there's alot of interesting discussion there about the riddles and cryptic posts of Shango and Simian; just be prepared to get confused.
 

That is not an original part of the Simian verses.  It has gotten there by mistake.  I tried to explain it tonight in the Shango thread.

[klaasend]

I do not think Steve Croes is the 5th suspect.  He does not fit all the criteria..yet. I at one time thought that too, but not now.

I guess I've just tuned it out for some reason -- but, just what is the significance of the "5th" suspect???? It has been a topic way before "Fin."  Thanks for cluing me in!

Actually this is only my opinion and nothing more...but to me Simian was trying to place the majority of the blame for what happened that night on this 5th person.  It deflected away from Joran...in my opinion.  In reality, I think it simply means there was another person that was involved in this and has thus far gotten away from being imciminated.  That would fit several people...people that...believe it or not...fit some of the details in each person.  For example, it could be either GVC, Guido, LVR, Freddy, Steve, or Paulus.   This is a hot topic in the Shango thread.  Each one of these have been debated as to being the 5th.  Many think the Shango thread is there for decoding only the Shango posts...it is there for that...but we talk about all kinds of things over there.  There are some very intelligent people that post there and they rarely get any kudos for their efforts.  Lots of info about many other subjects and we are not a bunch of looneys either...well some of us are...but you can look past me and see some really smart monkeys over there.  Colombo has been very persisitent in his thoughts about Simian and Shango as have others.  Mum has done extensive research on several subjects.  She is the one that found so much evidence on Jean Akers for us once.  Capslock has been working on his theory there too...I think some of our newer monkeys are busy working out their ideas as well.  As Sirensong said the other day...we have been hopping over there!

Lala's I agree with everything you just said about the Shango/Simian thread, some great minds and research.

[Lala'sMom]

Let me try this again....ooops!!! This is the part of Simian's post that was a comment from another website...it has nothing to do with the original post.  Sorry.


Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day

[dennisintn]

 Mum has done extensive research on several subjects.  She is the one that found so much evidence on Jean Akers for us once. [/quote]

mom, can you steer me to this info. on jean akers?  i couldn't find much, but i'm really interested in her association with the sloots and people like renfro.  way too many american politicos were swayed way off course in this case, and should have known better than to believe what they were told by somebody.
dennisintn

[texasmom]

I do not think Steve Croes is the 5th suspect.  He does not fit all the criteria..yet. I at one time thought that too, but not now.

I guess I've just tuned it out for some reason -- but, just what is the significance of the "5th" suspect???? It has been a topic way before "Fin."  Thanks for cluing me in!

Actually this is only my opinion and nothing more...but to me Simian was trying to place the majority of the blame for what happened that night on this 5th person.  It deflected away from Joran...in my opinion.  In reality, I think it simply means there was another person that was involved in this and has thus far gotten away from being imciminated.  That would fit several people...people that...believe it or not...fit some of the details in each person.  For example, it could be either GVC, Guido, LVR, Freddy, Steve, or Paulus.   This is a hot topic in the Shango thread.  Each one of these have been debated as to being the 5th.  Many think the Shango thread is there for decoding only the Shango posts...it is there for that...but we talk about all kinds of things over there.  There are some very intelligent people that post there and they rarely get any kudos for their efforts.  Lots of info about many other subjects and we are not a bunch of looneys either...well some of us are...but you can look past me and see some really smart monkeys over there.  Colombo has been very persisitent in his thoughts about Simian and Shango as have others.  Mum has done extensive research on several subjects.  She is the one that found so much evidence on Jean Akers for us once.  Capslock has been working on his theory there too...I think some of our newer monkeys are busy working out their ideas as well.  As Sirensong said the other day...we have been hopping over there!

Thanks, Lala's.  If I'd have seen you here, I would not have even attempted.  I respect all of you that spend so much time over there, very interesting investigation in my opinion!
 
In my opinion SGC is not the 5th either, but I do agree with the possibilities that you've listed.
   

[wreck]

I followed shango pretty closely while in the EARLY RWV days -- but I just got away from it as nothing new had come from it since the first month. I DO respect those who have kept up and discuss it here -- never a problem with me at all!
My frustration is that SOMEONE knew what was happening and apparently was on the "inside." It really steams me that this person doesn't have the morals to just come out and say what he means.

[Lala'sMom]

Mum has done extensive research on several subjects.  She is the one that found so much evidence on Jean Akers for us once.

mom, can you steer me to this info. on jean akers?  i couldn't find much, but i'm really interested in her association with the sloots and people like renfro.  way too many american politicos were swayed way off course in this case, and should have known better than to believe what they were told by somebody.
dennisintn
[/quote]

I tell you what...Muminohio has the goods on her.  I just emailed her and I bet she will post it all for you in the early AM.  She has it in a file all nice and neat...with links and such.  Check back tomorrow I am sure she will be happy to do it.  It's one of her fave topics.

[jackb]

Hendrik (H. S.) Croes has studied law.
he must have, because he is landsadvocaat (attorney for the government).
around 1979 he was justice minister for the Dutch Antilles (before 1986 aruba was part of the country Dutch Antilles.)
http://www.reclassering.org/index.php?page_id=27&style_id=0  "toenmalige minister van justitie, mr. H.S. Croes"

so now we have justice minister rudy croes and landsadvocaat hendrik croes.
doesn't sound right to me. in some countries it isn't even allowed to have next of kin to the 2nd degree being member of parliament.
seems to me that hendrik croes gives rudy croes directions.

also found that hendrik croes is named in the cargo-affair.
http://ikregeer.nl/static/pdf/KVR3597.pdf dutch parlaiment asked questions about this in 1996.
this is related to the irt-affair. major drugs smuggling affair by the police themselves.
in an earlier article investigators were asked by then dutch-aruban procureur generaal Zwinkels not to question Rudy Croes because he might became justice minister again. i doubt they questioned his brother Hendrik either...
http://www.groene.nl/1996/49/Braaf_aruba
http://www.groene.nl/1996/39/De_aruba-affaire

here is a report by the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (CPT) visiting Aruba to check on news of mistreatment in KIA.

A. Governmental authorities

    Mr. J.H.M. Zwinkels - Attorney General

    Mr. B. Vocking - Deputy Director, Aruba Correctional Institute

    Ms. C. van den Berg - Head of the Rehabilitation and Child Welfare Council

    Ms. Y. Spellen - Director, Guardianship Board

    Mr. J. van de Straten - Head of the National Bureau of Investigations

    Mr. L. Rasmijn - Police Commissioner

    Mr. E. Bennet - Head of the Airport Immigration Authorities

    Mr. R. Martus - Inspector of Police

    Ms. A. Peterson - Department of Foreign Affairs Liaison officer to the CPT

Rasmijn en Zwinkels were involved with IRT / Cargo-affair. (see both groene amsterdammer-articles)
also note J van de(r) Straten. didn't know he was already there around that time???
but it is a very common name. but as Head of the National Bureau of Investigations
he must have been involved too with IRT/Cargo-affair.
does this mean he has stuff on Rudy/Hendrik Croes? or on eachother? or even Hirsch Ballin? (had to resign because of IRT-affair.
i repeat this IRT-affair was huge.

i've got a few books and websites bookmarked still to read/scroll through.
but same names keep popping up constantly.
this book seems especially interesting:
http://www.aup.nl/do.php?a=show_visitor_book&isbn=9053564675&l=1

zwinkels was prosecutor under resort 's hertogenbosch - procureur generaal there was gonsalves.
but then i think i am getting way to far. because gonsalves is a very shady person.
he 'supposedly' butchered many people of the Dani-tribe in papau-new-guinea in the 50s. killed people on the spot.
he was called 'godshelves' or 'gunsalvo'. but never got convicted for this.
there is even a gonsalves-price awarded each year now for people who did good work for justice.
after hirsch ballin resigned because of irt-affair the gonsalves-murders came up due to research of a tv-program.
the next justice minister kosto didn't see reason to take action.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolph_Gonsalves
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Gonsalvesprijs
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aad_Kosto

 

Wonder if the C. Vandenberg is kin to Martin Van den burg now living in Thiland.  He was on the BOD of some relevant organizations up until about the NH time.  It has been awhile since I fooled with that.  How I got wind of this man is he kept posting his room pics on the I-net in Tickle web site where some of the perps were put down as friends (i.e)  Depak Kalpoe as King of Bling, maybe friends of friends.
Anyway I got to enhancing his room photos and lo and behold (for effect) there was what appeared to be a statue of a girl bound and tied to what looked like a ship mast or something with NH clothing on.  I kept finding out stuff on this Martin Van den Berg or burg, whatever and it seems he is into young teens, computers and was keeping a running diary of sorts on the case.  Very pro Vandersloot.  I have not been, as I said messing with this in months.  Also, this picture, is very strange after being enhanced, the ones of his room.  There are various computer and picture taking equipment, etc. in it.  He is in his 50s or so.  Got married, he says here while back to a very young woman.  Has a collection of serial killer books in his room picture and had pictures of Jug and Beth on tv.  He is a strange bird and is connected somehow to all of this.  I may have given the pic to Klass, if not I will if she wants it to post.  I am unable to figure out why he had this.  It was almost unseen on the floor as a statue and a doll house, but the fabric caught my eye and I started resizing and enhancing it.   Jackb  (now you all know why I am nuts.)   

[Lala'sMom]

I followed shango pretty closely while in the EARLY RWV days -- but I just got away from it as nothing new had come from it since the first month. I DO respect those who have kept up and discuss it here -- never a problem with me at all!
My frustration is that SOMEONE knew what was happening and apparently was on the "inside." It really steams me that this person doesn't have the morals to just come out and say what he means.

I agree!  That is why I spent weeks calling them out on this thread and the FP.  I think they should get back to the FP and tell us the real truth.  Then again, you had other posters that were subtle also in what they said...hoping to say something without being discovered.  The fear mentality on Aruba is widespread and it is well known the consequences.  I have little sympathy for Shango in this regard since I know he posted from the USA and was safe at the time from retaliation.  Cloak and dagger is necessary at times..although it is frustrating.

[Lala'sMom]

I almost forgot...Texasmom...you did good!

[texasmom]

I almost forgot...Texasmom...you did good!

Thanks Lala's!   

[klaasend]

Polis a gara grupo di ladron cu a horta mas di 100 mil florin        
Thursday, 20 March 2008 


Diahuebs anochi banda di un 9:10 pm polis a gara un grupo di 4 persona cu tabata hortando tur rond di Aruba. E grupo aki tabata proffesional di horta cartera di hende y nan tabata liher den horta. Nan a horta mas di 10 mil den Price Smart di cliente pero camara a wak nan y tambe den Certified nan a horta di cartera di hende unda cu camara tambe a gara nan.  Nan tabata traha den team y polis a cuminsa sigi nan pa 2 dia caba. Nan a muda Diaranson anochi banda di 11or na un motel den caya betico croes den camber 10 y camber 11. Nan tabata move den e auto V-2059. Awe nan a haci e fout di horta un joyeria den caya grandi unda cu polis a siginan te na e motel. Polis a warda pa nan drenta nan camber y asina gara nan. Tur a wordo deteni y tambe tur loke nan a horta a wordo confisca cu ta mas di 100 mil florin. Tambe e auto nan a bai cune pa asina investiga tur cos. Nan ta venezolano, peruano y tambe mexicano. Te hasta nan a horta un mama di un Polis un suma grandi y tambe ruman di un periodista conoci. Click read more pa mira e antisocialnan aki.
 

Through translator:

police owing to grab are of thief cu owing to steal more of 100 thousand guilder
thursday, 20 march 2008

diahuebs night near of one 9:10 pm police owing to grab one are of 4 person cu was hortando all rond of aruba. the are here was proffesional of steal cartera of person y they was liher in steal. they owing to steal more of 10 thousand in price smart of cliente but camara owing to look at they y also in certified they owing to steal of cartera of person where cu camara also owing to grab they. they was work in team y police owing to cuminsa sigi they for 2 day end. they owing to muda diaranson night near of 11or at one motel in caya betico croes in camber 10 y camber 11. they was actuate in the car v-2059. today they owing to haci the aberration of steal one joyeria in caya big where cu police owing to siginan till at the motel. police owing to keep for they enter they camber y so grab they. all owing to wordo deteni y also all thing they owing to steal owing to wordo confisca cu is more of 100 thousand guilder. also the car they owing to go cune for so investiga all cos. they're venezolano, peruvian y also mexicano. till even they owing to steal one mother of one police one suma big y also brother of one journalist conoci. click read more for see the antisocialnan here. come across

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/4250/8/