Lively Case Discussion #510 8/11 - 8/12/2006

[the big hammer]

Lone Killer: jvds?

Shizaru writes: "...I suspect either her death or disappearance or both somehow involved going into the ocean near the FH, as Joran's original version of the beach story, told to Deepak that nite..."

As you note later in same post, jvds provides among first story at ISA that Natalee "hits head, drowns, beach" -- and most importantly is saying at the very start of this whole thing that Natalee is DEAD.  This is story which evidently prompts meeting w/ Werner, the headmaster and both pvds and jvds on 5/31.

I have yearned to corroborate "simple" crime, as you later state, perpetrated by stupid, enabled boys.

But, I see the actions of paulus, and his immediate lawyering up for Freddy, and I take pause knowing Arambatzis' charged offenses and previous implications as discussed in the statements.  

I am "from Missouri" on so much of this and searched for some grains of truth in the avalanche of statements posted here.  I think one of the truthful statements uttered was in polis car by deepak: "Freddy has to tell the truth".  

And I take that as meaning that freddy is involved, complicating the perp lineup and parsing of charges/culpability.

[klaasend]

SHIZARU - I did some maps of the construction area and Red did a FP post on it last month.  I'm trying to locate them now.

Here's one of the maps, not one I did but maybe it will help:

[Jerry from Ohio]

Did any one see or hear the Nancy Grace peice last (Fri evening )  she had a woman (sorry I forgot her name )
but she had OlJorans and Paulis's Number from the get go  as Joran tried to put all the Blame on Natalee which is what most Sociopaths  will do  this is also true for Paulis and Anita  they  do Honestly in there perverted way of thinking that THEY have been wronged  because they are now basicaly caught .
  And as for Joran comeing back to the island  that is just plain stuped and rubbing the Familys  H/ T  faces in it.  that is a sad thing .
    Where are the underground avengers when you need them ?      
  and as for Poor Klasse   Hon you sleep as long as you want  you deserve it all .

[klaasend]

Lone Killer: jvds?

Shizaru writes: "...I suspect either her death or disappearance or both somehow involved going into the ocean near the FH, as Joran's original version of the beach story, told to Deepak that nite..."

As you note later in same post, jvds provides among first story at ISA that Natalee "hits head, drowns, beach" -- and most importantly is saying at the very start of this whole thing that Natalee is DEAD.  This is story which evidently prompts meeting w/ Werner, the headmaster and both pvds and jvds on 5/31.

I have yearned to corroborate "simple" crime, as you later state, perpetrated by stupid, enabled boys.

But, I see the actions of paulus, and his immediate lawyering up for Freddy, and I take pause knowing Arambatzis' charged offenses and previous implications as discussed in the statements.  

I am "from Missouri" on so much of this and searched for some grains of truth in the avalanche of statements posted here.  I think one of the truthful statements uttered was in polis car by deepak: "Freddy has to tell the truth".  

And I take that as meaning that freddy is involved, complicating the perp lineup and parsing of charges/culpability.

HAMMER - I agree Freddy is somehow involved and I cannot get the possibility of a video out of my mind.

[Frijole]

Lone Killer: jvds?

Shizaru writes: "...I suspect either her death or disappearance or both somehow involved going into the ocean near the FH, as Joran's original version of the beach story, told to Deepak that nite..."

As you note later in same post, jvds provides among first story at ISA that Natalee "hits head, drowns, beach" -- and most importantly is saying at the very start of this whole thing that Natalee is DEAD.  This is story which evidently prompts meeting w/ Werner, the headmaster and both pvds and jvds on 5/31.

I have yearned to corroborate "simple" crime, as you later state, perpetrated by stupid, enabled boys.

But, I see the actions of paulus, and his immediate lawyering up for Freddy, and I take pause knowing Arambatzis' charged offenses and previous implications as discussed in the statements.  

I am "from Missouri" on so much of this and searched for some grains of truth in the avalanche of statements posted here.  I think one of the truthful statements uttered was in polis car by deepak: "Freddy has to tell the truth".  

And I take that as meaning that freddy is involved, complicating the perp lineup and parsing of charges/culpability.

If Deepak feels that Freddy must tell the truth then is it safe to assume that the truth would either set Deepak free or lessen his involvement?  It would seem so to me.

I would love to see Freddy's statements.    And Paulus'.

[Shizaru]

I can't post just the photo since topic is locked, but in the photo linked below, which road is it where Deepak and Satish said they dropped J and N off?  They said it was the first unnamed side street north of the Marriott.  Would that be the long road just to the left to the Marriott, or the next one down, all the way over by the FH?  If the latter than J and 2K don't agree on the dropoff point. Deepak said they drove about 30 meters down the road, that sounds more consistent with  the shorter road by the FH.    

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=3

According to reports, it's the long road right next to the Marriott, just north of.  The problem is we can't believe anything they've said so it could be any of those roads.

Is that the road running left to right in the photo, parallel to the beach and ending at the Marriott, or the one running top to bottom alongside the Marriott  

What confuses me is that after dropping J and N off they allegedly drove for a short distance and then threw their drinks out the window at the Marriott.  How do they do that if they were already at the Marriott to start with.  It would make sense tho if driving south from the lighthouse they turn off LG Smith onto the road running parallel to the beach, let J and N out somewhere along the beach, then keep driving to the end of the road and toss their drinks  by the Marriott as they are turning left back towards LG Smith.

[nonesuche]

Hi All-

Klaas I can't get the video idea out of my head either, or the fact that the time Joran spent at backseatbangers was 10 minutes, before heading over to nastydollars to buy some more porn to stimulate him? What kind of connection do the VDS' have, I am assuming it's not dial-up? One can upload a video in the span of 10 minutes over high-speed, or even less, I did it myself this week to photobucket.

What we also need to know is what Freddy's online activities were that night to complete at least part of this puzzle.

[klaasend]

I need to get some work done so I'll be lurking and working.  

[klaasend]

Hi All-

Klaas I can't get the video idea out of my head either, or the fact that the time Joran spent at backseatbangers was 10 minutes, before heading over to nastydollars to buy some more porn to stimulate him? What kind of connection do the VDS' have, I am assuming it's not dial-up? One can upload a video in the span of 10 minutes over high-speed, or even less, I did it myself this week to photobucket.

What we also need to know is what Freddy's online activities were that night to complete at least part of this puzzle.

Personally, I've never uploaded a porn video so I have no idea of the time involved.  I have a feeling that many of those videos are not very lengthy though.  

I think there's a video too.

[nonesuche]

well the one I uploaded wasn't porn but it was 17 minutes long, it took about 8 minutes to upload it over roadrunner high-speed to photobucket.

[Buckeye]

Hi All-

Klaas I can't get the video idea out of my head either, or the fact that the time Joran spent at backseatbangers was 10 minutes, before heading over to nastydollars to buy some more porn to stimulate him? What kind of connection do the VDS' have, I am assuming it's not dial-up? One can upload a video in the span of 10 minutes over high-speed, or even less, I did it myself this week to photobucket.

What we also need to know is what Freddy's online activities were that night to complete at least part of this puzzle.

If Natalee did get at 3:30 call off...maybe they were all at Jorans and while the boys were watching their  downloaded clip... she got a call off on Sanders phone...which then disappeared..

[Shizaru]

Lone Killer: jvds?

Shizaru writes: "...I suspect either her death or disappearance or both somehow involved going into the ocean near the FH, as Joran's original version of the beach story, told to Deepak that nite..."

As you note later in same post, jvds provides among first story at ISA that Natalee "hits head, drowns, beach" -- and most importantly is saying at the very start of this whole thing that Natalee is DEAD.  This is story which evidently prompts meeting w/ Werner, the headmaster and both pvds and jvds on 5/31.

I have yearned to corroborate "simple" crime, as you later state, perpetrated by stupid, enabled boys.

But, I see the actions of paulus, and his immediate lawyering up for Freddy, and I take pause knowing Arambatzis' charged offenses and previous implications as discussed in the statements.  

I am "from Missouri" on so much of this and searched for some grains of truth in the avalanche of statements posted here.  I think one of the truthful statements uttered was in polis car by deepak: "Freddy has to tell the truth".  

And I take that as meaning that freddy is involved, complicating the perp lineup and parsing of charges/culpability.

I think what was meant by "Freddy must tell the truth" is that when Joran told Freddy the beach story during the apt meeting on 5/31, Joran told Freddy he walked home from the beach.  And 2K want Freddy to corrorborate that they did not pick Joran up.

[nonesuche]

buckeye-

If they used a digital videocam, the video has to be processed thru software such as Pinnacle, before it's rendered to a format suitable to upload too. But Freddy has the video production operation and therefore since Pinnacle is a tool that costs only about $200, I feel sure he's set up to do this process easily.

Freddy is key, Deepak's statement is quite telling.

[klaasend]

OK, really have to work.  Been putting this off for 2 days!

[nonesuche]

Shizaru-

I would agree if not for the porn visit Joran made online to backseatbangers which operates like youtube.com, except I think you are paid for video for backseat whereas for youtube you are not.

If it had been any site but backseatbangers, I'd be less inclined to think video was done, but as a result of that plus Freddy living closeby and also having video expertise - just have to think there is a connection here.

[Buckeye]

buckeye-

If they used a digital videocam, the video has to be processed thru software such as Pinnacle, before it's rendered to a format suitable to upload too. But Freddy has the video production operation and therefore since Pinnacle is a tool that costs only about $200, I feel sure he's set up to do this process easily.

Freddy is key, Deepak's statement is quite telling.

Maybe they were testing the equipment for the "shoot"...and putting mattresses on floor...and Natalee got a call off...Just because someone was on the computer, does not mean Natalee had been left somewhere.
Maybe Joran signaled he was home because Deepak was outside or in the apt. and Joran was in main house thinking Natalee was passed out in apt.

[Sam]

I agree with Nonesuch here. I believe they uploaded to backseat bangers.

I wonder if the investigators thought of checking out that site and seeing what was there? I also wonder if it could be Freddies enterprise? Meaning who owns backseatbangers?

I do remember, Geraldo saying Freddie had passed around or sold a video of an underaged girl.

Sam

[Anna]

.
Did Paulus make a frantic trip to Florida to buy back the vid?  Was he successful?

Is it Satish who mentions Joran "breathing hard" when he is supposedly walking home and talking to Deepak on the cell phone?  Young healthy male breathing hard just walking?  What happens when he plays tennis if he cannot even walk without breathing hard?

Then later they all watched vid of Satish's school trip?  Unless the school trip was to a bar or casino I find it out of character for Joran to be interested.  Was this the Premier Night viewing of the final product?

Or did they just upload directly to Bangbus and then cash in for the two  porn downloads?  We need Deepak's phone and cell records as well as those of Freddie.

I don't know if they made a vid or photos or not but it does seem like something they might well try to do given the Sloot family's obsession with porn.

Are Val and Joran truly on the same computer at the same time or is Val accessing from the Netherlands where he is with his mother?  Or do the Sloots really have more than one computer in operation at that time?

So many questions and so few answers.

.

[JuJu]

It is possible that Nat was at the house when Pus was looking up the drug info on the computer because they thought she was dead or dying

[cubbeegirl]

With all this going on, I have to wonder when Deepak found the time to purchase more minutes for his phone...