Kyron Horman, 7 years old, Portland OR #40 1/01/11 - 1/18/11

[sassifrass]

sassifras -  I think there just isn't any new information in this case right now.  When there's new info, I expect the thread will pick back up for discussion.  I've seen this happen in other cases/threads before.  Unless there is incoming information, things slow down.  I believe many are very, very interested, but we've sort of hashed and rehashed the information we have, and have gone around and around with various theories.  I check for new developments in this case daily, as I'm sure many others do and if there's anything newsworthy, I feel it will get posted pronto.  

Editing my post to add:  It looks like you've brought several items for discussion.  Thank you.   

Thank you Muffy! 

[nicubird]

One other thing I forgot. I think everyone here knows my hinky feelings on the Holm/Villarreal family.

Does anyone have a link to Catarino Villareal's obituary? I looked every where and can't find it. I want to find out who the 5th son is.

Also, didn't realize the he was a soccer and basketball coach at Skyline. Maybe that's why Kim took over, because she use to be the girls soccer coach at Benson in 2008.

http://www.oregonprepsports.net/girls-soccer/2008-schedules/Oregon/1-Benson

The obituary is on page 4 of this link. It lists the names of all 5 children.

http://www.srnpdx.org/sites/default/files/RR1009_color.pdf

[MuffyBee]

sassifras -  I think there just isn't any new information in this case right now.  When there's new info, I expect the thread will pick back up for discussion.  I've seen this happen in other cases/threads before.  Unless there is incoming information, things slow down.  I believe many are very, very interested, but we've sort of hashed and rehashed the information we have, and have gone around and around with various theories.  I check for new developments in this case daily, as I'm sure many others do and if there's anything newsworthy, I feel it will get posted pronto.  

Editing my post to add:  It looks like you've brought several items for discussion.  Thank you.   

Thank you Muffy! 

I don't think any of us want this case to get cold and I surely understand your concern about not much movement in this thread.  We've seen Hailey Cummings case go cold, Lindsey Baum's case go cold and etc. and it's difficult because we want the children found and we want answers and we want justice.  I don't know what it's going to take to bust Kyron's case on open.  Some seemed to feel the divorce hearing might shed some light, but then maybe not.  I believe there is an active investigation going on, and I hope someone will talk, maybe something will be found and the pieces can come together.  Hoping and praying for Kyron to come home.   

[sassifrass]

One other thing I forgot. I think everyone here knows my hinky feelings on the Holm/Villarreal family.

Does anyone have a link to Catarino Villareal's obituary? I looked every where and can't find it. I want to find out who the 5th son is.

Also, didn't realize the he was a soccer and basketball coach at Skyline. Maybe that's why Kim took over, because she use to be the girls soccer coach at Benson in 2008.

http://www.oregonprepsports.net/girls-soccer/2008-schedules/Oregon/1-Benson

The obituary is on page 4 of this link. It lists the names of all 5 children.

http://www.srnpdx.org/sites/default/files/RR1009_color.pdf

Thanks nicu!  That answered my question and left more questions. 

[sassifrass]

sassifras -  I think there just isn't any new information in this case right now.  When there's new info, I expect the thread will pick back up for discussion.  I've seen this happen in other cases/threads before.  Unless there is incoming information, things slow down.  I believe many are very, very interested, but we've sort of hashed and rehashed the information we have, and have gone around and around with various theories.  I check for new developments in this case daily, as I'm sure many others do and if there's anything newsworthy, I feel it will get posted pronto.  

Editing my post to add:  It looks like you've brought several items for discussion.  Thank you.   

Thank you Muffy! 

I don't think any of us want this case to get cold and I surely understand your concern about not much movement in this thread.  We've seen Hailey Cummings case go cold, Lindsey Baum's case go cold and etc. and it's difficult because we want the children found and we want answers and we want justice.  I don't know what it's going to take to bust Kyron's case on open.  Some seemed to feel the divorce hearing might shed some light, but then maybe not.  I believe there is an active investigation going on, and I hope someone will talk, maybe something will be found and the pieces can come together.  Hoping and praying for Kyron to come home.   

BBM

I think we all know what would help this case. For Terri to talk and to be honest. LE is working so hard on this case. If she would just talk to them and tell them the truth, maybe it would bring Kyron home.

[bebecat]

The only way Terri will ever tell the truth, if she hasn't, is if this was some sort of horrible accident and she could somehow prove that, but how could she? Everything we read and hear makes it sound like a big premeditated event. Perhaps 5-6 months ago, LE and others may have believed her if she said it was an accident and she was scared, but no one would now.

Sadly, even if Kyron is found, LE may never be able to tell how he died. So then, in order to charge 1st degree murder, I think they would have to prove premeditation. They may be focusing on that more than anything. And if he isn't found...I'm still not sure how they can ever prove he is dead.

(All assuming he is not alive, of course, and I don't believe he is, and don't believe LE thinks so either.)

[Tamikosmom]

The only way Terri will ever tell the truth, if she hasn't, is if this was some sort of horrible accident and she could somehow prove that, but how could she? Everything we read and hear makes it sound like a big premeditated event. Perhaps 5-6 months ago, LE and others may have believed her if she said it was an accident and she was scared, but no one would now.

Sadly, even if Kyron is found, LE may never be able to tell how he died. So then, in order to charge 1st degree murder, I think they would have to prove premeditation. They may be focusing on that more than anything. And if he isn't found...I'm still not sure how they can ever prove he is dead.

(All assuming he is not alive, of course, and I don't believe he is, and don't believe LE thinks so either.)

Something akin to the Aruban house of cards which Private Detective Arts Wood refers to.  He implies that it takes only one participant in a coverup to talk in the initiation of a collapse ... a collapse which has the abllity to reveal the truth.  Three years later ... the mother of Natalee Holloway concurs with Woods in her words to Oprah Winfrey.

The words of DeDe Spicher's attorney made me pause and speculate.  Could Terri's friend be the participant who initiates the collapse of the house of cards in the Kyron Horman case?

Janet

+++++


WHEN SOMEBODY TALKS

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for December 1
updated 7:37 a.m. PT, Fri., Dec. 2, 2005

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: ... The reason this case could still be solved is because there are so many people involved in Natalee's disappearance and in the disposal of her body. When somebody talks, they're going to all go down. This is like a house of cards.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/


ANYBODY COULD TALK AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT

OPRAH WINFREY SHOW - January 27, 2008

BETH HOLLOWAY: We've never really relied on an investigative approach to find an answer to Natalee. I think what we've relied on more heavily is that at any given moment something unexpected could happen and we really feel anyone could talk at any moment.

http://www2.oprah.com/world/politics/slide/20080116/politics_284_203.jhtml


DEDE SPICHER'S COOPERTION

Attorney: Spicher shared Terri Horman emails, texts with cops
Posted on July 26, 2010 at 11:09 AM
Updated Wednesday, Aug 18 at 7:05 AM

Stavley also told NBC Dateline Monday that Spicher had been, and planned to keep, cooperating with investigators. He said that she had already shared text messages and emails sent to and from Terri with detectives.

"I would be, frankly, surprised if Terri Horman did not eventually face charges in this case," Stavley said. "I'd be surprised if the indictment didn't come down."

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/DeDe-Spicher-testifies-before-grand-jury-99252004-kyron-horman-missing-portland.html
 

[bebecat]

I don't believe Dede is involved, at least not to the extent that she can tell LE where Kyron is.

[Tamikosmom]

I don't believe Dede is involved, at least not to the extent that she can tell LE where Kyron is.

DeDe could be a link in the chain of participants involved in the disappearance of Kyron ... a link who could identify the preceding link and the following link.

Janet

[hellokitty]

 

Kim Holm probably got the gift cards for Christmas.  They could have been for $10 each from parents that she coaches for all we know.

[fatcatlurker]

JMO but typically the perp does not want the body found because it will show how one died.  There will be evidence if found.   The list of missing found deceased with charges brought before and after found is long and most bodies found even much later tell the tale.

No body cases can be tried;

The United States case of People v. Scott 176 Cal. App. 2d 458 (1960) held that "circumstantial evidence, when sufficient to exclude every other reasonable hypothesis, may prove the death of a missing person, the existence of a homicide and the guilt of the accused".[8]

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1120202
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_conviction_without_a_body
http://www.nobodycases.com/blog.html
http://www.miamicriminaldefenselawyerblog.com/2010/09/prosecutors-get-verdict-on-17.html
Charges brought 17 years after the crime without one shred of physical evidence...wow!

Whoever made Kyron disappear should be held accountable within the evidence of the law regardless of having a body or not.  If circumstantial evidence points to a specific person and the GJ sees fit to bring charges than so be it. 

ITA that if it is one perp alone they have no reason to speak, none whatsoever.  All JMO.

[fatcatlurker]

I don't believe Dede is involved, at least not to the extent that she can tell LE where Kyron is.

DeDe could be a link in the chain of participants involved in the disappearance of Kyron ... a link who could identify the preceding link and the following link.

Janet

 

I'll take all the little chinks in the chain we can get at this point. 

She has that missing time in her timeline the day Kyron went missing.
She won't take a LDT.
Her Boss and Co-Workers from that day cooperating with LE.
She "appeared" before the GJ but was not questioned.

She's got my attention.

[fatcatlurker]

Kim Holm probably got the gift cards for Christmas.  They could have been for $10 each from parents that she coaches for all we know.

IA, seems that is the new gift to give.  I can't figure a motive for her. JMO.

[bebecat]

Maybe if charges are filed against someone like Dede, she would talk openly to LE? Somehow I doubt it, as she already has a lawyer and has said she has told them all she knows. I just don't think we are looking at a group of people here, maybe TH and one other at most, probably as an alibi or a "helper" in some way after the fact. I do not think TH would allow anyone to know where Kyron is, I don't think she trusts people to that extent. So if she keeps quiet, she figures she is as safe as she can be. And she will keep quiet, she's shown that.

[neighbor]

Kim Holm probably got the gift cards for Christmas.  They could have been for $10 each from parents that she coaches for all we know.

IA, seems that is the new gift to give.  I can't figure a motive for her. JMO.

Many parents use SCRIP as part of fund raising for the school.

[Tamikosmom]

Could it be that investigators in their quest for the truth will cut a plea deal with DeDe ... a plea deal that would required that she would reveal ALL that she knows encompassing the disappearance of Kyron without fear of prosecution.

Janet

+++++

DEDE SPICHER'S COOPERATION

Attorney: Spicher shared Terri Horman emails, texts with cops
Posted on July 26, 2010 at 11:09 AM
Updated Wednesday, Aug 18 at 7:05 AM

Stavley also told NBC Dateline Monday that Spicher had been, and planned to keep, cooperating with investigators. He said that she had already shared text messages and emails sent to and from Terri with detectives.

"I would be, frankly, surprised if Terri Horman did not eventually face charges in this case," Stavley said. "I'd be surprised if the indictment didn't come down."

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/DeDe-Spicher-testifies-before-grand-jury-99252004-kyron-horman-missing-portland.html
 

[Tamikosmom]

I don't believe Dede is involved, at least not to the extent that she can tell LE where Kyron is.

DeDe could be a link in the chain of participants involved in the disappearance of Kyron ... a link who could identify the preceding link and the following link.

Janet

 

I'll take all the little chinks in the chain we can get at this point. 

She has that missing time in her timeline the day Kyron went missing.
She won't take a LDT.
Her Boss and Co-Workers from that day cooperating with LE.
She "appeared" before the GJ but was not questioned.

She's got my attention.

 

[Tamikosmom]

Could it be that investigators in their quest for the truth will cut a plea deal with DeDe ... a plea deal that would required that she would reveal ALL that she knows encompassing the disappearance of Kyron without fear of prosecution.

Janet

+++++

DEDE SPICHER'S COOPERATION

Attorney: Spicher shared Terri Horman emails, texts with cops
Posted on July 26, 2010 at 11:09 AM
Updated Wednesday, Aug 18 at 7:05 AM

Stavley also told NBC Dateline Monday that Spicher had been, and planned to keep, cooperating with investigators. He said that she had already shared text messages and emails sent to and from Terri with detectives.

"I would be, frankly, surprised if Terri Horman did not eventually face charges in this case," Stavley said. "I'd be surprised if the indictment didn't come down."

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/DeDe-Spicher-testifies-before-grand-jury-99252004-kyron-horman-missing-portland.html
 

Considering DeDe's silence ... maybe this plea deal has already been negotiated a long while back and ... the past five/six month since her attorney's words to the media has been all about connecting the dots in regards to all the participants involved in the disappearance of Kyron.

This scenario gives my hope that maybe ... just maybe Kyron is alive.

Janet

[Shell]

I don't believe Dede is involved, at least not to the extent that she can tell LE where Kyron is.

DeDe could be a link in the chain of participants involved in the disappearance of Kyron ... a link who could identify the preceding link and the following link.

Janet

 

I'll take all the little chinks in the chain we can get at this point. 

She has that missing time in her timeline the day Kyron went missing.
She won't take a LDT.
Her Boss and Co-Workers from that day cooperating with LE.
She "appeared" before the GJ but was not questioned.

She's got my attention.

Mine too, I think she knows plenty.

[Nut44x4]

sassifras -  I think there just isn't any new information in this case right now.  When there's new info, I expect the thread will pick back up for discussion.  I've seen this happen in other cases/threads before.  Unless there is incoming information, things slow down.  I believe many are very, very interested, but we've sort of hashed and rehashed the information we have, and have gone around and around with various theories.  I check for new developments in this case daily, as I'm sure many others do and if there's anything newsworthy, I feel it will get posted pronto.  

Editing my post to add:  It looks like you've brought several items for discussion.  Thank you.  

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