Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/09 - 2/25/09

[Keepthefaith]

Very interesting pattern's ehh Kermit?Legacy offshore.Another interesting one.ehhh Kermit?

Yes. I've been reading back. Great work Monkeys.

Keepthefaith, always 1, Kermit, casa, johan555, bastibro, Lifesong

[Kermit]

11 Feb 2008 - Kyle asks for donations for the Persistence to continue the search. They are out of funds.
14 Feb  Kyle is in US talking to Executives
Klye said: "I have an ABC (20/20) and CBS (early show) film crew ready and willing to take part in such a meeting should it require press coverage. I've already had a meeting with ABC about this and they are "definitely interested" at the executive level. We met in mid-Feb about this already

[Kermit]

Very interesting pattern's ehh Kermit?Legacy offshore.Another interesting one.ehhh Kermit?

Yes. I've been reading back. Great work Monkeys.

Keepthefaith, always 1, Kermit, casa, johan555, bastibro, Lifesong

ribbit

[Keepthefaith]

What did Schaefer and Koch,take Superior offshore for, in terms of money?Close to 70 million dollars?????   

[Keepthefaith]

Hey Monkeys,

Spoke with Beth today. Nothing of any pressing news, we just had not chatted in a while and it was great to do some catch up with her.

However, I took the opportunity to ask Beth a couple of questions that she was kind enough to answer.

Question: Beth, this may come as a strange question but in light of some people writing misrepresentations regarding stuff that SM has done ... has Scared Monkeys on the FP or in the forum ever made comments, posts or done anything that would have upset you that you were angered or disagreed with?

Answer: Red, are you kidding. Scared Monkeys has done so much good from the beginning how could you even ask that. Are you crazy!

Kermit
"Beth KNOWS what I have been working on.
And I know exactly what Beth wants.
Everyone who wants to doubt or believe whatever someone else is telling them are free to do so.

Those individuals who want to call me names, be insidious will continue to do so, but it won't stop
the good people from bringing the truth out and expose the Aruba cover-up.
I believe the monkeys stand together!"

BUMP

[bastibro]

Very interesting pattern's ehh Kermit?Legacy offshore.Another interesting one.ehhh Kermit?

Yes. I've been reading back. Great work Monkeys.

Keepthefaith, always 1, Kermit, casa, johan555, bastibro, Lifesong

ribbit

Speaking of drive-by`s 

[Magnolia]

11 Feb 2008 - Kyle asks for donations for the Persistence to continue the search. They are out of funds.



Please come beside those who have already given so much to help ensure a proper funeral in Alabama for Natalee Holloway. Please make all donations marked as: “Holloway search”.
To learn more about Texas Equusearch and to help support the search for Natalee Holloway, check out: http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html

Texas EquuSearch Office:
4013 FM 517, Suite B
Dickinson, Texas 77539
P. O. Box 395, Dickinson, Texas 77539

Office: (281) 309-9500
Fax: (281) 534-6719
Toll Free: (877) 270-9500
Email: donate@texasequusearch.org


Bad news on the search.  Persistence has completed the underwater survey/grid.  Have identified 100+ objects and trying to narrow the list.  However, they are totally out of money.  If they can't come up with donations within a week or 10 days they will have to go home.
Dave Holloway has been talking to various officials to help chip in.
Without contributions Persistence is coming home.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2641.480


The RV Persistence to Leave Aruba
« on: March 01, 2008, 01:03:19 PM »
It is with sadness that I am reporting to everyone that the Persistence leaves Aruba tomorrow heading for home.  As you are aware, the side scan sonar search is complete.  There are many many targets for the ROV to look at.  Sadly, this will not happen with the Persistence.  The main reason is the lack of funding.  This combined with the winter rough weather makes it difficult.  John and the crew thank all of your for your help and many blessings and prayers you have provided.  Please continue these prayers until the Persistence and crew makes it back to port in New Iberia.

I don't know what to say! Everyone has tried.  I urge you to continue to try to obtain donations so that a boat and ROV can go back and dive all the targets that the Persistence has collected.  The feelings that John and the crew have are so mixed right now.  I can only imagine... In any event, please continue with trying to get donations for the finishing of this search.  I know I am... I will not give up.

Thanks everyone! You are the best!
Posted at BFN:







Re: The RV Persistence to Leave Aruba
« Reply #57 on: March 01, 2008, 07:08:56 PM »
Quote from: dssm on March 01, 2008, 06:33:50 PM
Quote from: emilyanne on March 01, 2008, 06:30:19 PM
I am going to send out a mass email right now to everyone in my address book looking for donations. By the end of the week, I should have some money gathered. Where should I send it? I will donate $300 and include it in the rest of the money I gather throughout the week. This is NOT over yet.

Texas Equusearch marked "Natalee Holloway Search"

To learn more about Texas Equusearch and to help support the search for Natalee Holloway, check out: http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html

Texas EquuSearch Office:
4013 FM 517, Suite B
Dickinson, Texas 77539
P. O. Box 395, Dickinson, Texas 77539

Office: (281) 309-9500
Fax: (281) 534-6719
Toll Free: (877) 270-9500
Email: donate@texasequusearch.org

you go dssm! This is what we need! Continued requests for donations!


LegallyLex
I am sure TES, Louis, Dave, Robin, Beth and all of us here will continue to seek donations to finish the project.
Posted at BFN


LegalLex posted :
« Reply #59 on: February 23, 2008, 01:34:38 PM »
Do you know if the donations received have been enough to keep the Persistence afloat  for long enough?

Kescah, the answer to that is no.  I wish it were a different answer.
http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=8255.45
LegallyLex


 

http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html.....this link no longer works.
It used to give a list of all of the donors to the Natalee Holloway search...private & personal.
The donations were all listed alphabetically by first name.  I would like to see it now!!
Several businesses in Aruba were listed, as well as a $10,000 donation from AHATA.
My donation never showed up on the list of donors, even though it was deducted from
my bank account.

[nonesuche]

Looks like Tim and Equusearch have a forum now? That link is at the top toolbar on their website now.

http://texasequusearch.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=2fda8e2c3faef2751d36b6029a32d6f5

[Magnolia]

Looks like Tim and Equusearch have a forum now? That link is at the top toolbar on their website now.

http://texasequusearch.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=2fda8e2c3faef2751d36b6029a32d6f5

I saw that earlier today when I was trying to find that list of donors.
I couldn't find much about Natalee on the new site.

[Tamikosmom]

As far as asking for last minute donations, I believe that was in March and if I'm not mistaken they asked for donations to be sent to TES (at that time).

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=7921.msg327458#msg327458

While searching I found this post of Kyles that has always bothered me.  My comments in Red:

Dateline made many grievous mistakes in the broadcast.  To name a few:
 
1) My biggest problem with it --  they failed to mention or include any interview from John Silvetti, the owner of the Persistence and field project manager of the search. He was just as influencial to the project as TM. Really?  See #5.  If it was a TES documentary then why are you mad they didn't intervew Silvetti?

2) They included a statement by Dave H. which said we could find a quarter on the seafloor with our equipment.  We do not have the ability to detect a quarter on the seafloor.  To anyone in the industry, this is silly.  BFD

3) the trap was not found where Tim Miller guessed or had a feeling it would be.

4) the broadcast gave the impression that they knew the type of trap which was allegedly stolen from the fishermen's huts.  They speculated on the missing trap using added file footage. WTF did you expect?  It's TV, they like to over dramatize.

5)  the broadcast was supposed to be a documentary on TES and Tim Miller, not the search for Natalee Holloway.  It seems they used Tim Miller to get the scoop on the search.  Now Kyle, you can't be this stupid.  You think Dateline decided to come along on the ship because they love sailing? 

I do not think you were mistaken Klaas.  I am looking.  I do believe it was a post from BFN.

Thanks for the quotes.

Janet

[nonesuche]

Looks like Tim and Equusearch have a forum now? That link is at the top toolbar on their website now.

http://texasequusearch.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=2fda8e2c3faef2751d36b6029a32d6f5

I saw that earlier today when I was trying to find that list of donors.
I couldn't find much about Natalee on the new site.

I didn't either Magnolia, but I will also say when I reviewed all the recent missing persons they are searching for, it never ceases to amaze and dishearten me just how many go missing. Adults too, not just children, at a time crime is increasing due to this economy it's very concerning.

[Magnolia]

Thanx again VMS!

I think I finally get it.

 

Janet

VMS provided some good information.Unintentionally i believe?

I prefer to stay away from speculation, hearsay, and opinion. I would rather deal with facts, wherever they may lead.  I have been praying for justice for Natalee since June of 2005. Do not make assumptions about me or what my intentions are, Keepthefaith.

CapsLockWizzard's  facts?

[Lifesong]

Hey vms - THANK YOU for posting that article about Silvetti and Legacy.

Guys - check out this link, and compare it to the list of boat's owned by Superior Offshore.

See anything interesting????????? 

Boats owned by Superior Offshore:

Superior Endeavour Vanuatu Own 2004 (2) 10/2004 265 8,600 61 Yes(3) 50
Gulmar Falcon Panama Charter(4) 2006 04/2006 220 9,235 73 Yes(3) 30
Gulmar Condor Marshall Charter(5) 2006 07/2007 341 10,764 128 Yes(3) 120/70
Islands
Adams Surveyor Bahrain Charter(6) 2007 03/2007 228 5,084 54 No(7) 45
Toisa Puma Liberia Charter( 2007 - 253 4,672 60 Yes(3) 25
Seamec III India Charter(9) 2007 07/2007 304 5,124 90 Yes(3) 50/10
Four-Point Vessels:
Gulf Diver III U.S. Own 2003 09/2003 165 1,034 36 No 10
Gulf Diver IV (10) U.S. Own 2005 - 168 2,880 43 No 15
Gulf Diver V U.S. Own 2005 03/2006 180 3,330 23 No 15
Gulf Diver VI U.S. Own 2006 09/2006 166 2,890 38 No 15
----------

Boats in Trinidad as of November 2007:

Gulmar Condor, Seamec III, and the Crossmar 14
-----------------------

Boats owned by legacy:

Gulf Diver V

Gulmar Falcon

Sun River

Ocean Veritas

Here you go Jen3560

Superior Offshore International sells PSV, offers DSVFiled from Houston
4/15/2008 6:11:54 PM GMT




 
USA/GULF OF MEXICO: Financially troubled Superior Offshore International has closed the sale of platform support vessel (PSV) Gulf Diver V and selected onboard diving equipment to Legacy Offshore for US$4 million. Under the purchase agreement, Superior Offshore has the option to repurchase the vessel and equipment for the same price on Oct. 1, 2008. Legacy Offshore provided a deposit of US$1.8 million in late March, which Superior Offshore used to make a scheduled payment on the charter of the diving support vessel (DSV) Gulmar Condor, which Superior Offshore would not have been able to make without the deposit.

http://www.energycurrent.com/index.php?id=4&storyid=9981

I'm still 4 pages behind, but I cannot believe what I am reading!!

[Tamikosmom]

Looks like Tim and Equusearch have a forum now? That link is at the top toolbar on their website now.

http://texasequusearch.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=2fda8e2c3faef2751d36b6029a32d6f5

I saw that earlier today when I was trying to find that list of donors.
I couldn't find much about Natalee on the new site.

Thank you.

I have the old link somewhere.  I copied and pasted a couple pages of donors from sometime at the beginning/middle of December.  Give me a minute/a lifetime ... I may find it.

 

Janet

[klaasend]

Looks like Tim and Equusearch have a forum now? That link is at the top toolbar on their website now.

http://texasequusearch.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=2fda8e2c3faef2751d36b6029a32d6f5

Right but it doesn't look like it's being utilized yet nor is it really being moderated.  All good intentions I'm sure. Their new website is more like a blog set up rather than a website set up, I don't care for it but that's just me.

[Keepthefaith]

Thanx again VMS!

I think I finally get it.

 

Janet

VMS provided some good information.Unintentionally i believe?

I prefer to stay away from speculation, hearsay, and opinion. I would rather deal with facts, wherever they may lead.  I have been praying for justice for Natalee since June of 2005. Do not make assumptions about me or what my intentions are, Keepthefaith.

CapsLockWizzard's  facts?

You think Magnolia?

[johan555]

Aruba
Lethal violence in Rancho Street
24 Feb, 2009, 14:18 (GMT -04:00)

ORANGE CITY - A quarrel between two persons in the Rancho Street in the night from Saturday to Sunday completely out of hand. Was allegedly the victim around four o'clock in the morning are so abused, that the victim in the hospital declared brain dead. The exact circumstances of the incident is still unclear and is examined by the police.
Earlier the same night another person reported to the police with gunshot wounds in his left arm. He stated that in the Rancho Street was shot by a HS also known as "Matador." The victim was removed by ambulance to the hospital

[Tamikosmom]

Thanx again VMS!

I think I finally get it.

 

Janet

VMS provided some good information.Unintentionally i believe?

I prefer to stay away from speculation, hearsay, and opinion. I would rather deal with facts, wherever they may lead.  I have been praying for justice for Natalee since June of 2005. Do not make assumptions about me or what my intentions are, Keepthefaith.

I agree.  VMS ... you must be as frustrated as I am in regards to Kyle Kingman's own words as they relate to John Silvetti.  No speculation required.  No theorizing required.  A revelation from somebody who was there on board the Persistence in an official capacity ... somebody who observed all.

Janet

++++++


THE PERSISTENCE DECEPTION

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

John Silvetti

Kyle:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.
 
Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.  John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.

Kyle: Mr. Red Shirt came on the Persistence along with Dolf, Mos, et al for the meeting on the 30th."

Kyle:   This is certainly NOT John Silvetti. I do not know this man. He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.

Kyle:   John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.

Kyle:   He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle:   The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.
 
Kyle:  They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle: Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days. (05/08/08)

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that. (06/10/08)


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Fabric - Tarp - Vertibre - Skull

Kyle:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: In my opinion that last pic from Jan 7th should be absolutely intriguing and flip your mind from what you thought you knew. In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric.

Kyle: Notice the blue fabric swayed in the current.

Kyle: The blue tarp piece was found approx 6-10 ft away from the trap opening.

Kyle:  The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both.

Kyle: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle:   … John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand

Kyle:  I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form.  Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle: The bag that is above the denim bag looks to me as though it contains pieces of  vertebrae.

Kyle: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle:  The contents of the trap were being actively investigated. The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample. Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle:  In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand.  Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle: I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains.

Kyle:  … Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.
 
Kyle: The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both.

Kyle: In my opinion that last pic from Jan 7th should be absolutely intriguing and flip your mind from what you thought you knew.  In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric.
 
 
Kyle Kingman’s Summary

Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:
 
Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464

[bc73]

I know most readers and posters have already watched "Final Hours of Natalee Holloway", but it is on at 8pm tonight on E!. I just consider it a refresher course to get pissed off at Aruba, and the BS that those animals have caused the family to suffer through.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Magnolia,

http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html.....this link no longer works.
It used to give a list of all of the donors to the Natalee Holloway search...private & personal.
The donations were all listed alphabetically by first name.  I would like to see it now!!
Several businesses in Aruba were listed, as well as a $10,000 donation from AHATA.
My donation never showed up on the list of donors, even though it was deducted from
my bank account.

I noticed this and posted about it a while back.  It still seems the sponsor page is under construction, but I have noticed that they highlight specific sponsors on the right side toward the bottom of the page.  I remember the list you are talking about.

Having had sponsors for a scholarship fundraiser we've had here for 10 years, it's common to use the sponsor's businesses or promote them as best we can.  The fact that TES calls upon Stilletti, or Legacy is not unusual or a surprise to me.