Lively Case Discussion #670 7/31 - 8/01/2007

[San]

Here is Hammer's post:

Blood: Update & Correction

There was important discussion yesterday re: "blood in Kalpoe car" and I had provided info re: hemident testing.  Though it doesn't happen often, I incorrectly posted the blood testing info, which helped throw discussion off-course.  I have posted previously on this subject long ago, and details slipped mind. The implications of the blood testing and what has been reported are important to case, and I bring more accuracy here:

1. Hemident Testing

A procedure used by law enforcement agencies the world over for crime scene identification of substance as "BLOOD".  Hemident test will positively identify a substance as blood BUT this testing procedure will NOT identify a substance as human vs animal blood.  Hemident kits are widely available and can be purchased on-line.  They are inexpensive, about $10.00 per kit and are often purchased in bulk.  Here is an example:

http://www.odvinc.com/hemidentID/hemident.html

2.  Blood in Kalpoe Car

Early reports in case show that numerous LE on the scene indicated Kalpoe car had blood in back seating area and overhead paneling.  These reports are sourced to Oduber to Twitty, ALE to Twitty, FBI to HT Family and others as well and the timing of these reports vary.  It was finally reported, after Kalpoe car was seized and searched that material was sent to NFI Lab in Holland for testing.  The infamous results have been discussed here: the substance in question was chocolate and cleaning fluid.

The main point is that with hemident test, there was no need to send material to Holland and wait for days for results.  A lab test, like the one described, is needed to determine if the blood was human or animal -- NOT WHETHER IT WAS BLOOD, in the first place.  This is extremely suspicious.  NO LE needs to send material to LAB to determine if it's blood.  So what exactly was sent to Holland for testing?

3.  Bloody Mattress 

After noon on June 5, 2005 -- and subsequent to the early morning arrest of Mickey Johns and Abraham Jones on murder charges -- a bloody mattress was found on Grapefield Beach, close to San Nicolas, Aruba, where Johns & Jones lived.  Numerous news reports were made about the discovery of the bloody mattress, creating the impression that quite obviously Natalee had been killed.

By the end of the day on June 5, ALE was indicating that the mattress contained blood, but it was blood from a dead dog found nearby.

Given the information available, it was IMPOSSIBLE for ALE to arrive at this conclusion with needed level of accuracy in murder investigation.  The only way to determine if the blood on the mattress was human or animal was through a laboratory testing procedure as described above, which could never have produced these results in the time given.

This is also extremely suspicious.  Was this mattress ever entered into evidence?

.

[Anna]

Any update on the location where TES will be in CA with the Donna Jou case? Red announce they were coming today.

Love you Klaas, but, gads, I can hardly keep up with one thread but will try my best at the other two.

IBE - sorry I know, having the extra threads is harder on San and I too.  I do think most everything will end up being posted in this thread along with off-topic stuff.

I see if I can find out about TES

Well, that makes the on topic thread rather redundant and useless.  It would only work if there was one thread for Natalee and one for Off Topic. 

JMO
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[Angiex911dsptchr]

Rob Smith replaces Jorge as PRESIDENT of AHATA:

http://www.arubatoday.com/newspaper/August/AT-1-8-07.pdf

 

[KarmaRoundUp]

Rob,
The only problem I have with Papito planting the blood in Deepak's car is how did he make it go away when he returned the car to Deepak.  I certainly don't think ALE is morally above doing just this very thing but can't figure out how they could make it go away afterwards.

Also how could Deepak's Magic Car be at the casino with Joran and also at the Sloot compound as verified by CCroes and kid who wrote down the license plate number at the same time?

I am back to the two very similar cars theory.

.

Anyone know how long it takes to get from the VDS compound to the casinos?
How much time elapsed between when CC saw the Kalpoe car at the VDS's and to when Beth and crew arrived there?

[KarmaRoundUp]

I have my doubts about the coverup being done because Paul was a judge...do any of you think he may be a player in the drug trade and money laundering.....and that the "Big Boys" protected him to protect themselves.....

hi JuJu....I think there were several factors involved....pvds was responsible for contracts on the island...so i think he probably called in some IOU's...but i also think mamasloot has higher/political connections in holland than papasloot....and i think she called on those connections.....look at the people....van stratten.....wouldn't allow the house to be searched. Judge letting the sporter go after sentencing him to more days in KIA....but after a private talk with the sporter and parents he lets him go....KJ...gung ho...until she goes to holland and comes back.....someone very influential got the word out....JMO of course

That is interesting.What influences does Anita have in Holland?And if true or if her influences are powerful enough,what happens now?Would this mean the Dutch investigators sent in is just another part of the game being played out?

In my opinion yes.  They would be foolish not to solve this case but for some reason I think they aren't.

I'm getting that feeling too San,actually,that feeling never left me.

[KarmaRoundUp]

I believe that the coverup took on a life of its own because Aruba failed to anticipated the power a determined mother whose voice would not be silenced ... whose voice commanded media attention in regards to the corrupt investigation which was denying her daugher justice in a attempt to protect a wannabe judge and his son.

By the time the realization set in the Beth Holloway Twitty was not about to be silenced ... it was too late to turn back the clock.  It was no longer just about those within the ALE protecting their own from implication ... it was all about those within the Dutch/Aruban administration who had knowledge or were involved in the coverup.  It was about the sons of the elite.  It was about exposure of Aruba's dirty little secrets in regards to gambling ... drugs ... money laundering ... pornography ... prostitution ...

Janet

 

ITA with this....and now aruba doesn't have a way out.They may think they do,they may think that Beth and Dave and all of us out here supporting them will just fall for that Bill O. story....nope,not going to happen.

[Dihannah1]

{{edit - removed and posted in the LIVELY DISCUSSION thread - no O/T here please}}

[Easywriter]

Why is the name Rob Smith so familiar? 

[truthseeker2]

Where did everyone go?

[KarmaRoundUp]

San,
It could have gone just as you said or the opposite~Paulus sending Joran out to try to give the appearance of normalcy.  I do think Joran walked the route they had driven the night before looking for the cups or something they threw out the car window or went there to plant the shoes, some reason he did that walk.

Maybe looking for something of Natalee's they lost...like ear rings or wrist band?I wonder if he was all muddy that night and what he was wearing to make Beth say Joran was not dressed like he just came back from a casino?

[truthseeker2]

Why is the name Rob Smith so familiar? 

I think some monkeys were looking into a Rob Smith and his hotel connections a long time back.  Don't know what ever came of that.

[KarmaRoundUp]

I believe that the coverup took on a life of its own because Aruba failed to anticipated the power a determined mother whose voice would not be silenced ... whose voice commanded media attention in regards to the corrupt investigation which was denying her daugher justice in a attempt to protect a wannabe judge and his son.

By the time the realization set in the Beth Holloway Twitty was not about to be silenced ... it was too late to turn back the clock.  It was no longer just about those within the ALE protecting their own from implication ... it was all about those within the Dutch/Aruban administration who had knowledge or were involved in the coverup.  It was about the sons of the elite.  It was about exposure of Aruba's dirty little secrets in regards to gambling ... drugs ... money laundering ... pornography ... prostitution ...

Janet

 

All that and more.  Remember the article in Diario about the elders having sex at hotels with underaged girls?  Or just underaged children?
I think if the truth came out about this happening to Natalee, the drugged and raped routine they had down to a fine art, it might also come out that not just these PIMPS had been doing this and for some time.

I read about a guy putting roofies into those little cardboard containers of orange juice with a hypodermic syringe for example.

They couldn't expose Joran and crew without the same light shining on many of that island and not just kids who had been doing this for some time.

Whatever happened about Jossy's article anyway?  Not one thing that I have seen.  Now how can that be?

.

Whoa,I don't remember reading that.I used to only read Diaro when Lesley would post them.

[klaasend]

Posted by Dihannah in the CASE DISCUSSION only thread:

Little O/T, but just read in Missing forum that TES will be coming to Columbus for missing OSU student.  That is my city, so will be contacting them to help.

In case any other Buckeyes living close and want to be involved, I can let you know what I find out, like when and where.

[Easywriter]

 

[Angiex911dsptchr]

Why is the name Rob Smith so familiar? 

 Check out SSROB1  on aim 

[KarmaRoundUp]

San,
It could have gone just as you said or the opposite~Paulus sending Joran out to try to give the appearance of normalcy.  I do think Joran walked the route they had driven the night before looking for the cups or something they threw out the car window or went there to plant the shoes, some reason he did that walk.

We are not dealing with a person who can act normal.  If Joran was in fact with someone it would have been with someone of authority.  He would have never left him with Deepak alone.  Especially after what happened in his home.

There are several witnesses who state Joran was in fact at the casino earlier.  I am not sure how many people would be willing to lie for PVDS about something that would be on tape and could be verified.

Sociopaths mimic the behavior of others often quite well.  But I think you are correct that Paulus would be very nervous about allowing Joran out of his sight with Joran's big mouth.  I still think he was forced to risk it as in Joran being at the Racquet club, etc.  I also think many of his actions were based on his fear of Anita as much as anything.
.

Anna, they are still lying about the casino tape and that being Paulus next to Natalee so why not lie about a video of Joran being at the casino the night after.

Paulus is placing himself with Joran by saying he dropped him off at the Racquet club.  I believe Paulus never went home and he stayed with Joran.  Someone saw Paulus with Joran and that's why he had to put himself there at the Racquet club.  I refused to believe a liar like Paulus that he went home afterwards.  All they would have to do is present a video from that evening of Joran being in he casino.  They won't because there is none.

This is just my opinion on how the Sloots think Anna.  I refuse to believe a bunch of liars like the Sloots.

Plus didn't they also tell Beth and Jug that witnesses had seen Joran WITH Natalee at the casino the night after she disappeared?I don't believe a word coming out of aruba period.

[Easywriter]

Earlier I got a breaking news story from 24ora.  Anyone else see that and figure it out?

[klaasend]

Why is the name Rob Smith so familiar? 

 Check out SSROB1  on aim 

Not sure why we would want to check him out, his AIM anyway.  He's just another AHATA person, always has been and is covering up like the rest.

[Anna]

Well, Karma, it was there, an article about elders having sex in hotels with under-aged.  I wonder if the PIMPS decided to expand their videoing efforts and just happened to catch a bit of this action and used it as a sort of Get Out of Jail Free Card, too.

Might be posted on GetaGrip site but believe it was since then.  In fact, since the sixteen year old girl was raped and recorded on cell phones, around that time if I recall correctly.

But then absolutely nothing ever came of it.  One would expect massive arrest of these people but nothing.

So I think this in some way relates and the lack of follow up seems to sort of verify that this is at least one major secret Aruba doesn't want the world to know.
.

[klaasend]

Earlier I got a breaking news story from 24ora.  Anyone else see that and figure it out?

I didn't see it when it was breaking news.  I see 4 police actions today, don't know what they are about:

http://www.24ora.com/content/blogcategory/6/8/

One is a suicide ATTEMPT