Natalee Case Discussion #838 6/12/10 -6/14/10

[texasmom]

Is this Anita?

That is the woman, not sure if it is her or not. 

I don't think it's her.

[Northern Rose]

These people really need to get tripods for these videos of the film festival.  I am getting sea sick looking at them.  Here is one with a lot of familiar characters.  No wonder Aruba has not jumped in the rubber dingy and paddled over to Peru to get the confession that Joran wants to make.  They are really busy with their film festival and fawning over Gere.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gdccreation#p/u/2/X6XobIV7nD4

[Tylergal]

I was just thinking about how Mr. Flores knew his daughter must have been drugged because of her manner of walking and the way she carried her body was and her head hanging down as if not in control. I remember someone in the Mountainbrook group saying Natalee didn't seem like herself.

I would like to know if J got anywhere near Stephany's drink at the casino (which could be possible seen on a security camera), or did he slip it into a coke after they were in her car?

In the video of her father discussing this, he mentioned that her demeanor was not right, that her gait was different and that it had taken them X amount (I cannot remember how much) minutes to get from point A to point B (casino to hostel) and it should have taken less than 5 minutes and there were two soft drink containers in the vehicle, which he alluded to perhaps being the conduit for Joran's drugging her.  It was not said exactly in those words, but that is what I ascertained it to mean.

[Anna]

Can you imagine how embarrassed Aruba is to have Anita there?  Nothing like reminding everybody about Joran and his latest crime spree.

.

[carpe noctem]

These people really need to get tripods for these videos of the film festival.  I am getting sea sick looking at them.  Here is one with a lot of familiar characters.  No wonder Aruba has not jumped in the rubber dingy and paddled over to Peru to get the confession that Joran wants to make.  They are really busy with their film festival and fawning over Gere.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gdccreation#p/u/2/X6XobIV7nD4

Yes, they are having friends over. They are entertaining.

Aruba - the show must go on.

[crazybabyborg]

Bad storm brewing here. I'm going to shut down the computer. It's the heat and humidity.......... thought I'd pass out mowing today!

Have a great night, all!

[Tylergal]

Mark Furhman (I never can remember how to spell that) said the location of the body in the room was such that it wouldn't be visible from someone opening the door. So, was Joran just attempting to establish that he was outside getting coffee at that time or did he see the camera once in the hallway and thought it might have recorded his charade so he didn't get the hotel worker in the room to "discover" Stephany's body?

I'm thinking he wasn't sure about the camera, so he just chucked it all and got the heck out of Dodge!

Was he just lying about eating cake and drinking coffee over Stephany's body? Why would he lie about that to investigators?

In the videos posted here of her father, I gleaned that he thought Joran was trying to set up "she was kidnapped...see, she is gone.."  If the person opening the door just went that far, they would not see her body from where they opened the door, and Joran could say "she was not in the room when I went back...and so and so opened the door and can attest to that..." but the person opening the door did not appear to even look.  I think her family thought she was kidnapped and the father seemed to think the reason Joran deserted her vehicle in the part of town in which he did, was also to make it look like she had been kidnapped.  Just saying, not that I would have thought that...

[Tylergal]

I know I am not a great sleuthing monkey....... Stephany was looking around alot in the casino.   I still have to wonder, did she know about Nat and do something reckless, looking to sleuth Joran out...just makes me wonder.  God bless these girls, I know many of us did foolish things as teen young women......this gives us special pause and wonder.... could we have been in this same       position....

She's a gambler, she was looking for tables and where to sit.

[Anna]

These people really need to get tripods for these videos of the film festival.  I am getting sea sick looking at them.  Here is one with a lot of familiar characters.  No wonder Aruba has not jumped in the rubber dingy and paddled over to Peru to get the confession that Joran wants to make.  They are really busy with their film festival and fawning over Gere.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gdccreation#p/u/2/X6XobIV7nD4

Was Richard Gere the only celebrity to attend this?  All I see are blowsy old Aruban politicians and a very seedy looking crowd.

[carpe noctem]

Bad storm brewing here. I'm going to shut down the computer. It's the heat and humidity.......... thought I'd pass out mowing today!

Have a great night, all!

Good night CBB... pleasant dreams.

[pinkbanana]

Good night CBB

God BLESS.

pb

[texasmom]

Bad storm brewing here. I'm going to shut down the computer. It's the heat and humidity.......... thought I'd pass out mowing today!

Have a great night, all!

Good night CBB!

[Tylergal]

I know I am not a great sleuthing monkey....... Stephany was looking around alot in the casino.   I still have to wonder, did she know about Nat and do something reckless, looking to sleuth Joran out...just makes me wonder.  God bless these girls, I know many of us did foolish things as teen young women......this gives us special pause and wonder.... could we have been in this same       position....

I doubt it.  I think she was very familiar with the casino and may have been looking around to see if anyone she knew (other than Joran) was there.

May be and Klaas, know I bow to your superior knowledge.....I have been reading since Nat, but only posting since Caylee....I always wish there was something I could do to resolve these cases......I am a sideline player.....just know, I support you all and wish I could do something more concrete....I try to hold up the cases....with nothing more than....... prayers

What stronger foundation for holding up someone than prayer?   I say, "none."

[Shell]

I was just thinking about how Mr. Flores knew his daughter must have been drugged because of her manner of walking and the way she carried her body was and her head hanging down as if not in control. I remember someone in the Mountainbrook group saying Natalee didn't seem like herself.

I would like to know if J got anywhere near Stephany's drink at the casino (which could be possible seen on a security camera), or did he slip it into a coke after they were in her car?

In the video of her father discussing this, he mentioned that her demeanor was not right, that her gait was different and that it had taken them X amount (I cannot remember how much) minutes to get from point A to point B (casino to hostel) and it should have taken less than 5 minutes and there were two soft drink containers in the vehicle, which he alluded to perhaps being the conduit for Joran's drugging her.  It was not said exactly in those words, but that is what I ascertained it to mean.

X=14 minutes

[carpe noctem]

Mark Furhman (I never can remember how to spell that) said the location of the body in the room was such that it wouldn't be visible from someone opening the door. So, was Joran just attempting to establish that he was outside getting coffee at that time or did he see the camera once in the hallway and thought it might have recorded his charade so he didn't get the hotel worker in the room to "discover" Stephany's body?

I'm thinking he wasn't sure about the camera, so he just chucked it all and got the heck out of Dodge!

Was he just lying about eating cake and drinking coffee over Stephany's body? Why would he lie about that to investigators?

In the videos posted here of her father, I gleaned that he thought Joran was trying to set up "she was kidnapped...see, she is gone.."  If the person opening the door just went that far, they would not see her body from where they opened the door, and Joran could say "she was not in the room when I went back...and so and so opened the door and can attest to that..." but the person opening the door did not appear to even look.  I think her family thought she was kidnapped and the father seemed to think the reason Joran deserted her vehicle in the part of town in which he did, was also to make it look like she had been kidnapped.  Just saying, not that I would have thought that...

That`s precisely what he was doing. His plan took a dump when he had no way to get her out in his luggage.

Possible original plan:

- Take her out in luggage

- Toss her in the sea

- Lose the car

- Scram

Later, the police come speak to Joran.

Police: what happened, where is she?

Joran: I don`t know... I left her at the hotel and checked out. I`m a ladies man, maybe you haven`t heard? I love em and leave em fast. Someone must have kidnapped her. Have you checked the door knob for prints? 

[Tylergal]

What I am trying to figure out is where is all this extra time coming in for
a shower, biscuits/danish/pannakoeken and coffee?


It all goes so fast. He hauled bucket and ran.

Breakfast on the go?

I don't think things went as fast as it appears.  I don't think anyone knows the time of her death.  It is impossible to give an exact minute of a death from an autopsy.  You can get an approximate time but that is not even within the hour.  It is always good information for a pathologist/coroner to have information about the last meal, but not vital.  Also positioning of the body, any a number of things, but about the discoloration of her legs and feet, blood drains down and it recirculates and goes back up but if the body has ceased to live, it has ceased to circulate the blood and it stagnates sotaspeak.  In other words, things drain down, not up.

[TURBOTHINK]

[quote author=carpe noctem

Something tells me Julia has gone back to a few MOTEL rooms with strange men at 4 in the morning.   She knows it. She needs to stop. (one time it was behind a gas station?)
[/quote]

Has anyone ever considered she protests so much because she was a part of it?

[Tylergal]

They keep saying that Joran asked the lobby clerk to not disturb his girlfriend. The video doesn't show that. You can see someone, presumably a hotel worker come in behind Joran in the lobby but it doesn't show any conversation.

There also has been no video, yet, of Joran going to get coffee. If he brought old coffee cups from the room out for his charade, and did not go get breakfast as he told investigators, then IMO, he had formulated a story where he would get a hotel worker to open the door and discover Stephany's body. He would say it must have happened while he was out. He was in the process of carrying that charade out when he spotted what might be a camera outside of the hotel door and chucked it and ran. Later, when he was caught, he stuck with the story hoping that what he saw in the hallway was not, indeed a camera.

That still does not explain why he would tell investigators he ate breakfast over Stephany's body, does it?

I just typed all that out and even though it explains nothing, it took too long to type so I'm posting it!  LOL!

I hunt and peck, guys! Should have taken typing.............

I saw the videos on Great (I think it was Great, might have been Nancy G) of the coffee charade.

[Shell]

These people really need to get tripods for these videos of the film festival.  I am getting sea sick looking at them.  Here is one with a lot of familiar characters.  No wonder Aruba has not jumped in the rubber dingy and paddled over to Peru to get the confession that Joran wants to make.  They are really busy with their film festival and fawning over Gere.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gdccreation#p/u/2/X6XobIV7nD4

Was Richard Gere the only celebrity to attend this?  All I see are blowsy old Aruban politicians and a very seedy looking crowd.

I was wondering the same. Wasn't he there before? Do any other actors besides him attend their film festival? It certainly wasn't the A list..or even the B...lol Richard Gere, who in my opinion is kind of a nut, not highly respected by me, sorry Rich

[Kat_Gram]

Does anyone know when the trial is ? I have done alot of reading, but I don't remember seeing that tid bit. It is in Peru's best interests to keep him alive until the trial.
He has one last chip left and damn it, he might just be willing to use it, but it won't be until after he is sentenced. What I am talking about is giving up the location of Natalee's remains and the truth in exchange for serving his sentence elsewhere, in the NL. Peru and the NL do not have any transfer treaties, ( he is not an Aruban citizen, but a citizen of NL ) and there would have to be some serious negotiations.
These things take ages to work out. We have had Canadians arrested in other countries , mostly on drug charges, a few have come back here, but the families had to do alot of political work and it took years, if it happened at all.
..
BTW I bought the People mag and they went too light on him, IMO. The dye was cast with Joran way before Miss Holloway ever knew there was an Aruba, he would have turned out the same, as he was heading in that direction for a few years. We all read his friends' statements about what type of low life scum bag behaviour they all engaged in. His friends did not desert him over the Holloway case, they deserted him later , maybe because he crapped on them too.  Plus the fact that he left Aruba, left Holland went to Thailand, went back to Holland and never finished what he started due to his drug and alcohol problems, coupled with whatever mental disorder he has.
..
Been quite a week, sad that Miss Flores is dead, happy that Joran is in Castro Castro prison. Have friends that went on a trip to Peru for cultural reasons, they did not find it to be a barbaric place, maybe it's just the prisons. The people are friendly and good hearted.
Long post, guess I was saving it up.  Thanks for all the updates and links.