Natalee Case Discussion #765 7/15 - 7/22

[klaasend]

Weekend full of Extreme violence on Aruba

In the night from Saturday to Sunday were two groups of young people quarrel after the full moon party at Havana Beach Club.  police saw that the young beer bottles to each other were throwing.  It became one of the young people wounded in the face.  The victim was taken to hospital for treatment.  After the fighting agents had met young people from each other, they got the message that there would be a shooting in Dakota.  At the height of the intersection of the Druivenstraat and Tomatenstraat agents were indeed traces of a shooting.  The police found a shell on the ground and kogelgaten in a parked car and the door of a house. . It is suspected that the shooting Dakota in connection with the brawl earlier in Havana.  There are two arrests made.

 Zondagochtend was again reported a steekpartij. For the Royal Plaza shopping mall became one person injured.  The victim was in the abdomen and had to put to the first aid treatment. . What exactly happened and why the victim neergestoken is not yet known.  The criminal investigation into the matter.
havanna club

Yep we posted the gunshot in the abdomen photo yesterday.  Scroll down for all of the stories in Pap

http://www.awe24.com/

[bleachedblack]

Yep I was here for the abdomen vs. butt discussion 

O/T Missing Persons
Jacob Nardo found safe TIA

[KarmaRoundUp]

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1937&Itemid=1

Awor tin indicacion cu tin cintanan cu confesion nobo di Joran for di Tailandia 
Monday, 21 July 2008 



Joran vd Sloot


ORANJESTAD – Tin indicacion cu un biaha mas tin cintanan di grabacion cu ta contene confesion cu Joran vd Sloot lo a haci, pero e biaha aki durante su estadia na Tailandia. Esaki Bon Dia Aruba a compronde di su contactonan internacional cu a informa cu un di e dianan aki e cintanan aki lo ta den nan poder pa cual nan lo por publica esaki.



Manera ta conoci, algun luna pasa a bin e noticia cu Joran vd Sloot lo tabata na Tailandia cu vacacion y  unda cu e lo a papia cu varios turista y te hasta aparece completamente sunu.
Aki pa su ‘mala suerte’ algun persona a saca su potret y a manda esaki pa prensa, unda cu algun revista a publica e potretnan aki na e.o. Hulanda.

E biaha aki ta e revista semanal hulandes PRIVE cu ta devela potretnan riba cual Joran ta dal drinks cu su amigonan nobo na Tailandia. E ta pose, bebe for di un hemchi, y ta aparece completamente sunu riba beach.
E lo tabata festehando den un posiblemente forma anonimo cu otro turistanan riba e isla Koh Samet, unda cu un turista pa malasuerte di Joran a saca su potret. “Mi ta rey di oceano” e tabata grita segun testigonan ocular, mientras cu e tabata bandona e isla cu un speedboat.

E articulo ta sigui menciona cu Joran lo a laga su mes haya tratamento serca un instituto sychiatrico pa haya terapia pa ‘hendenan cu a pega den un bida normal’ y cu tin problema cu ‘comportacion y problema sychiatrico’.
Un noticia anterior riba Joran tambe ta papia riba un amigo di internet di Joran, Martin Bakx cu lo a fie placa pa evita 10 aña di prison na Thailandia despues cu a descubri’e cu soft drugs, aunke no ta haci mencion di cua droga ta papia di dje.
Finalmente, e ‘amigo’ lo a perde 6 mil euro di su cuenta bancario, cu lo mester a bai pa Joran por a paga pa su foutnE interesante di e storia nobo awor ta cu ta for di dos diferente fuente e noticia di e supuesto confesion nobo aki a sali y cu tin un interes grandi riba e asunto aki.

E ultimo biaha cu cintanan di confesion a wordo traha, tabata cu asistencia di ciudadano Patrick vd Eem cu a haci henter un storia rond di esaki y a capitalisa financieramente riba e suseso aki tambe.
A bai asina leu di interoga v.d. Eem pa su participacion y tabatin intencion di busca vd Sloot basa riba e declaracionnan cu e lo a haci durante e grabacionnan den un auto, aña pasa.
Aworaki no ta conoci den ki forma e grabacionnan aki lo a wordo haci, ni na ken e lo a haci e confesionan aki. Bon Dia Aruba lo sigui e storia aki di serca y wak kico ta sali for di e asunto aki.
an.

Through pap translator:

now have indicacion cu have cintanan cu confesion new of joran for of tailandia

 monday, 21 july 2008

 joran vd sloot oranjestad – have indicacion cu once more have cintanan of grabacion cu is contene confesion cu joran vd sloot will owing to haci, but the trip here during his estadia at tailandia. this good morning aruba owing to compronde of his contactonan internacional cu owing to informa cu one of the dianan here the cintanan here will is in they power for cual they will can publica this. as is conoci, some month happen owing to come the news cu joran vd sloot will was at tailandia cu vacacion y where cu the will owing to talk cu several tourist y till even aparece completamente sunu. here for his ‘mala suerte’ some person owing to saca his potret y owing to send this for prensa, where cu some magazine owing to publica the potretnan here at the.o. the netherlands. the trip here is the magazine semanal dutch prive cu is devela potretnan on cual joran is strike drinks cu his amigonan new at tailandia. the is pose, drink for of one hemchi, y is aparece completamente sunu on beach. the will was festehando in one posiblemente form anonimo cu another turistanan on the island koh samet, where cu one tourist for malasuerte of joran owing to saca his potret. “mi is rey of oceano” the was bark according testigonan ocular, while cu the was bandona the island cu one speedboat. the articulo is follow menciona cu joran will owing to let his self achieve tratamento serca one institute sychiatrico for achieve therapy for ‘hendenan cu owing to stick in one life normal’ y cu have problem cu ‘comportacion y problem sychiatrico’. one news anterior on joran also is talk on one amigo of internet of joran, hammer bakx cu will owing to fie coin for evita 10 year of jail at thailandia after cu owing to descubri’e cu soft drugs, although do not haci mencion of cua drugs is talk of dje. finalmente, the ‘amigo’ will owing to lose 6 thousand euro of his cuenta bancario, cu will have to owing to go for joran can owing to pay for his foutne interesting of the storia new now is cu is for of two various fountain the news of the supuesto confesion new here owing to leave y cu have one interest big on the asunto here. the ultimo trip cu cintanan of confesion owing to wordo work, was cu asistencia of ciudadano patrick vd eem cu owing to haci all one storia rond of this y owing to capitalisa financieramente on the suseso here also. owing to go so far of interoga v.d. eem for his participacion y had intencion of busca vd sloot basa on the declaracionnan cu the will owing to haci during the grabacionnan in one car, year happen. aworaki do not conoci in what form the grabacionnan here will owing to wordo haci, neither at that the will owing to haci the confesionan here. good morning aruba will follow the storia here of serca y look at kico is leave for of the asunto here. an. come across


I don't think this is anything new, I think it's just that "wee willy" photo and article in the Dutch tabloid Prive
 

Does anyone know what this means:

here for his ‘mala suerte’

[bleachedblack]

I think it means 'bad luck'.

[johan555]

So now Aruba can add gang violence to the tourist brochures.

Well why tourists go to Aruba?
If you look at the website AWE24 there is continuous violence, a kind of war!
The travel agencies have to give the tourists better information  that  there  is so much violence.
A drugs and money laundry war.
Tourists still have the right to know where they go?

[WhiskeyGirl]

snip

I choose to ignore the first sentence in your post here...mainly because I don't give a shit....

The rest of the post I will respond to....

IMO...
Joran is the reason something bad happened to Natalee....
Joran may not have "murdered" her but he sure had a hand in disposing of her body....
She was dead or in a coma for a very short period on land and then was disposed of into the sea....
I am hesitant to send my child to the beaches in Alabama with close neighbors...let alone somewhere as far away as Aruba....there are many places I would rather her go right here in the U.S. that I prefer she visit....

All the above is MO only....

If she was sick or in a coma, why didn't someone call 911? 

If she was sick or in a coma, why didn't someone call a responsible person to help?

Why would someone choose to just dispose of a body?  Living or dead?

Why didn't someone just leave her to be found by a responsible person?  Outside the hospital?  Police station?  Hotel?

Did she cry out for help and no one dialed 911?  Why not?

[klaasend]

Observation only:

Jon/Shizaru - formerly Admin at Scrux appears to longer be Admin at Scrux or posting at Scrux.   He has posted some at BFN but hasn't posted at Scrux.

His website where he has compiled his information can be found here.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/

[Pita]

I think it means 'bad luck'.

Yes, it does.

[bleachedblack]

snip

I choose to ignore the first sentence in your post here...mainly because I don't give a shit....

The rest of the post I will respond to....

IMO...
Joran is the reason something bad happened to Natalee....
Joran may not have "murdered" her but he sure had a hand in disposing of her body....
She was dead or in a coma for a very short period on land and then was disposed of into the sea....
I am hesitant to send my child to the beaches in Alabama with close neighbors...let alone somewhere as far away as Aruba....there are many places I would rather her go right here in the U.S. that I prefer she visit....

All the above is MO only....

If she was sick or in a coma, why didn't someone call 911? 

If she was sick or in a coma, why didn't someone call a responsible person to help?

Why would someone choose to just dispose of a body?  Living or dead?

Why didn't someone just leave her to be found by a responsible person?  Outside the hospital?  Police station?  Hotel?

Did she cry out for help and no one dialed 911?  Why not?

Because someone would see all that chit.

[KarmaRoundUp]

I think it means 'bad luck'.

LOL...probably correct
Anything joran=bad luck and bad karma

[KarmaRoundUp]

So now Aruba can add gang violence to the tourist brochures.

Well why tourists go to Aruba?
If you look at the website AWE24 there is continuous violence, a kind of war!
The travel agencies have to give the tourists better information  that  there  is so much violence.
A drugs and money laundry war.
Tourists still have the right to know where they go?

LOL....kinda OT but seeing as they like showing these butt pics I was wondering if it's a requirement in ale to wear your uniform pants like 2 sizes too small?
officer:I need some uniform pants please.
uniform distributor:OK,what size do you wear?
officer:14 to 16
uniform distributor:OK,size 12 it is.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Karma.....

[johan555]

Psychologist Bram Bakker Joran is a psychopath!



Joran van der Sloot has no  conscience '

A psychiatric report of Joran van der Sloot would psychiatrist Erik Gerretsen very interested. "I am sincerely interested to hear a report on that boy," said Gerretsen, who works at the Forensic Psychiatric Service of the Ministry of Justice. "Because everything is incomprehensible. That lie, for example, what is it? It suggests that the boy lives in different realities." Van der Sloot leads to an antisocial personality disorder, believes psychologist Bram Bakker.
Bakker: "I do not diagnosis, but I say what strikes me at that boy. What still does not want to say that Joran is not responsible for his deeds. He simply has no conscience and act only from self-interest. He wanted nota bene still earn money in the affair. "
According to Bram Bakker act there is very little people like Joran. "You voost with a girl on the beach, which gets convulsions and death seem to go, and then you do not call the doctor but you dumped her into the sea. That is not typical. Fortunately, there are not many of those types." Psychiatric disorders are a combination of genetic and environmental factors. Bakker: "It is tempting to think that you Joran issue again when the father, who also wanted to save from the currency situation. From the conscience of man that I am not really impressed."

Also Gerretsen father believes that Van der Sloot a "remarkable role 'plays. Which, said he would not speculate. "You would first have to go after how that family structure is ."

[msmarple]

Diario's 07/22/2008 story re. the Havana/Dakota incidents late Saturday/early Sunday (07/19-07/20 2008):

http://news.diario-aruba.com/content/view/3614/30/

VARIOS ARMA USA DILANTI DI HAVANA DIADOMINGO MARDUGA 

Tuesday, 22 July 2008 

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Polisnan no a para keto riba e investigacion relaciona cu e caso di tiramento cu a tuma lugar diadomingo marduga banda di Havana y despues tambe den Dakota.

Te awor aki tin dos detencion caminda esnan deteni ta bisa di no sa nada. Asina mes polis tin un forma di haci nan investigacion pa saca afor si esnan deteni ta esnan cu a los tiro.

Dialuna polis a bay cu varios miembro haci un investigacion den e area pafor di Havana y aki a bin haya un cantidad di hulls di bala procedente di arma di candela. Ta resulta cu e hullsnan aki ta di diferente caliber. Esey ta indica cu tabata tin mas cu un tipo di pistol usa den e tiramento pafor prome cu e caso despues den Dakota.

Berdad un rato prome polis a bay pura tambe dilanti di Havana unda a drenta informacion cu tin bashamento di bala. Ora cu polis a yega nan no a mira nada y e momento ey ta solamente tres auto tabata tin para eydilanti.

Un rato despues e melding di Dakota a drenta y aki si a pone man riba dos sospechoso y a haya hulls di un arma cayente di un caliber mas chikito.

E cantidad di arma ilegal riba nos isla ta alarmamente y esaki ta den man di hobennan cu ta move rond busca problema cu otro hobennan den e area di clubnan nocturno.

Ban spera cu e dianan cu ta bin polis sa di haci un limpieza den e areanan druk. Polis mester cana rond na civil pa asina purba pone man riba esnan cu ta cana cu arma y bira un peliger pa clubnan nocturno hopi frecuenta.

Vacacion a cuminsa y mayornan mester papia cu nan yiu tambe pa evita cu nan lo bay bira victima na man di e loconan cu ta buscando manera di bay sera djis pa hunga tof usando arma di candela.

Online Papiamentu tranlsation:

several arm using fast of havana diadomingo marduga

tuesday, 22 july 2008

oranjestad (aan): polisnan not owing to stop keto on the investigacion relaciona cu the caso of tiramento cu did take lugar diadomingo marduga near of havana y after also in dakota.

till now here have two detencion caminda esnan deteni is tell of not know nothing. so self police have one form of haci they investigacion for saca afor if esnan deteni is esnan cu owing to los tiro.

monday police owing to bay cu several acolyte haci one investigacion in the area abroad of havana y here owing to come achieve one cantidad of hulls of ball procedente of arm of candela. is resulta cu the hullsnan here is of various caliber. esey is indica cu was have more cu one type of pistol using in the tiramento abroad first cu the caso after in dakota.

berdad one rato first police owing to bay pura also fast of havana where owing to enter informacion cu have bashamento of ball. hour cu police owing to arrive they not owing to see nothing y the instant ey is only three car was have stop eydilanti.

one rato after the melding of dakota owing to enter y here if owing to place hand on two sospechoso y owing to achieve hulls of one arm cayente of one caliber more diminutive.

the cantidad of arm ilegal on we island is alarmamente y this is in hand of hobennan cu is actuate rond busca problem cu another hobennan in the area of clubnan nocturno.

as wait for cu the dianan cu is come police know of haci one limpieza in the areanan druk. police have to march rond at civil for so try place hand on esnan cu is march cu arm y become one danger for clubnan nocturno much frecuenta.

vacacion owing to cuminsa y parents have to talk cu they child also for evita cu they will bay become victima at hand of the loconan cu is buscando as of bay close immidiately for play tof usando arm of candela.

* * *

[msmarple]

OMG.  Need Moderator help!

In the M&C thread - the post I did just now re. Diario's story today about the Havana/Dakota incidents (same as what I just posted here) - I somehow made the Diario article a "list item" instead of a "quote". Can someone fix that? THANKS!

[2NJSons_Mom]

Psychologist Bram Bakker Joran is a psychopath!



Joran van der Sloot has no  conscience '

A psychiatric report of Joran van der Sloot would psychiatrist Erik Gerretsen very interested. "I am sincerely interested to hear a report on that boy," said Gerretsen, who works at the Forensic Psychiatric Service of the Ministry of Justice. "Because everything is incomprehensible. That lie, for example, what is it? It suggests that the boy lives in different realities." Van der Sloot leads to an antisocial personality disorder, believes psychologist Bram Bakker.
Bakker: "I do not diagnosis, but I say what strikes me at that boy. What still does not want to say that Joran is not responsible for his deeds. He simply has no conscience and act only from self-interest. He wanted nota bene still earn money in the affair. "
According to Bram Bakker act there is very little people like Joran. "You voost with a girl on the beach, which gets convulsions and death seem to go, and then you do not call the doctor but you dumped her into the sea. That is not typical. Fortunately, there are not many of those types." Psychiatric disorders are a combination of genetic and environmental factors. Bakker: "It is tempting to think that you Joran issue again when the father, who also wanted to save from the currency situation. From the conscience of man that I am not really impressed."

Also Gerretsen father believes that Van der Sloot a "remarkable role 'plays. Which, said he would not speculate. "You would first have to go after how that family structure is ."

Johan...is this a current article?  We aren't doctors of psychiatry but Bakker isn't saying anything that hasn't been said here.

[bleachedblack]

Psychologist Bram Bakker Joran is a psychopath!



Joran van der Sloot has no  conscience '

A psychiatric report of Joran van der Sloot would psychiatrist Erik Gerretsen very interested. "I am sincerely interested to hear a report on that boy," said Gerretsen, who works at the Forensic Psychiatric Service of the Ministry of Justice. "Because everything is incomprehensible. That lie, for example, what is it? It suggests that the boy lives in different realities." Van der Sloot leads to an antisocial personality disorder, believes psychologist Bram Bakker.
Bakker: "I do not diagnosis, but I say what strikes me at that boy. What still does not want to say that Joran is not responsible for his deeds. He simply has no conscience and act only from self-interest. He wanted nota bene still earn money in the affair. "
According to Bram Bakker act there is very little people like Joran. "You voost with a girl on the beach, which gets convulsions and death seem to go, and then you do not call the doctor but you dumped her into the sea. That is not typical. Fortunately, there are not many of those types." Psychiatric disorders are a combination of genetic and environmental factors. Bakker: "It is tempting to think that you Joran issue again when the father, who also wanted to save from the currency situation. From the conscience of man that I am not really impressed."

Also Gerretsen father believes that Van der Sloot a "remarkable role 'plays. Which, said he would not speculate. "You would first have to go after how that family structure is ."

I am glad to see that Jorans psychiatric condition is being recognized by more people to be a completely abnormal one. For someone to be devoid of conscience is to eliminate what separates humans from animals. Joran has crossed the line.

[klaasend]

OMG.  Need Moderator help!

In the M&C thread - the post I did just now re. Diario's story today about the Havana/Dakota incidents (same as what I just posted here) - I somehow made the Diario article a "list item" instead of a "quote". Can someone fix that? THANKS!

Fixed 

[msmarple]

TY klaas - you're the best ever. (I don't know how you put up with all of us, not to mention THEM ... )

[johan555]

Joran told the True
Psychologist Corine the Ruiter



The public prosecutor wants know what happend when he was under the influence of narcotics during the conversations in the car. „
This is  not so  important. Narcotics will to slow down someone a bit , but it is not this way that you will tell all kinds of fantasia tales under the influence of cannabis.

trans via google ( i try to find a better translator ha ha )

Psychologist Corine the rider recognises the pattern which shows of of the ditch immediately. Much suspected show this behaviour. But Joran do it complete consistently. By Joke measured Corine the rider. Corine the rider. * Nieuwsthema - the disappearance of Natalee Holloway Utrecht, 6 febr. Also Corine the rider saw the `bekentenis' of Joran of of the ditch in zaak-Natalee the Holloway, Sunday evening for the hidden camera of godfather R. freezes. And the rider, professor forensic psychology within a couple minutes recognised from the university Maastricht, a pattern at the young man who blowend drunk to talk in the driver's mate chair. „Macho behaviour, the arrogance, the disrespect for frequently see the police force, them it at suspected which she examines as getuige-deskundige in criminal matters. „But here it was no slip or the tongue, was consistent. That was for me shocking. Whereas I have nevertheless seen a lot of these types. On its rag top the link of the retransmission twists. „Will find them its, Joran, say to entrepreneur Patrick of of the Eem. „No, say Joran. The rider: „How he looks at there, hè. Almost contented. `I have the control. That macho attitude, also that moment, which feeling-false-driven. It does not concern Natalee. It concerns him. He has not been caught. He counts on damages because he has been stuck undeserved. You see also a type lachje for its mouth. Joran: „I that agent has looked at right in its face. No word said. The rider: „That are possible them, this type chilly boys. Them is able someone gone stare. Joran: „Deepak and Satish. Stupid boys. The rider: „Joran let lie those boys for him. He looks at when he can use people. But he has no link with them. Your praat not this way denigrating concerning people who are your friends. What is the picture which you got? „The picture of a considerably antisocial boy. Very self-centred. A blown up feeling of eigenwaarde. A instrumentele relation with others. Lack of empathy. He talks concerning Natalee as if she is an use object. Vele smoking dope, gambling, little girls score, a certain fascination with the onderwereld. It tends to an antisocial life style and has appetites of psychopathy. Of course can you put no diagnosis on the basis of a television broadcast, emphasise the rider. For that much more knowledge is necessary concerning one's context. Everything what you see in the retransmission, you must verify. Not only the facts, also the behaviour. „But the picture are a lot persuading. Lying, playing on are appropriate the recherche, it all at each other. And if he not this type had characteristics, he have been differently handled the situation around Natalee. Cover-up are very calculating. He the next day has simply gone to school. YOU see never suspected yourself in these setting. How weet you what that with someone does? „I have, however, some faith that this truth Joran am. He says litterally of of the Eem: „I trust you. This, someone who trusts easily others would not be. He is on its qui vive, because he does not do be probably solicit that in order. Can it be that he lay to make impression on of of the Eem? „That must examine you. But it is more probable that he tells truth to nú, or sharing truth, then in a police force politieverhoor. On the baffle Joran describe the mangrove shrubs where he Natalee against have laid and the small boats which lie at the marriott hotel in sea. He zoekt to words. „That happen very truthful. It is a sign that he is in its memory for zoeken. But what I find incomprehensible, is that he says here that he is in panic. Why would you be in panic if someone becomes indisposed? Then the question comes on: he has not done nevertheless something as a result of which Natalee have died? But why he would that conceal whereas he talks this way freely? „It is a distrusting boy. He puts down a façade. It is possible something do has with deviante (derogatory) sexual operations. That is speculative, but those ideas rise at me. And thereby the tale of its shoes which have disappeared. And the fact that he says: If the lijk is found, then I hang. The public prosecutor wants know hoezeer he was under the influence of narcotics during the conversations in the car. „Nou, which are not this way important. Narcotics ontremmen a smattering, but it is not this way that you will tell all kinds of fantasia tales under the influence of cannabis. Do we have to be  have be frightened for Joran of of the ditch? „That he makes such a chilly impression, bears me, however, look. This way calculating institution is a risk factor for violence. Because he is thereby this way fool, he is also considerably krenkbaar. At the farewell she repeats that you no diagnosis can put on the basis of a television broadcast. And that she hopes that she has it wrong. „I hope that he is not what he seems be.

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