Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 - 12/24/08

[SS]

ENOUGH!  How many forums a person belongs to is nobodys business.  The only time any of that becomes my business is when because of the other forum THIS forum gets disrupted.  It's also a strong possibility that some of the disruptions are intentional.

Right now I don't think anything intentional is going on.  I think we are ALL simply trying to figure out what the heck has been going on.

With that, I'm calling it a night.  GOODNIGHT ALL!

Thank you, Klaas

[Keepthefaith]

If anyone is a member of a private forum can you tell me why be a part of something private?? I didn't expect anyone to answer 

The Natalee Freebirds is a private forum.  Members compile research encompassing a particular topic related to the Natalee Holloway case into a well organized document and ... then that document is posted for all to read on their own blog.  The Natalee's Freebirds also share each of their documents with the SM site.  Klaas posts the Natalee's Freebirds document in the Corruption and Collusion Thread.

I was once a member but made the decision to leave.  I am not a very good team player.  I have my own ideas.  Something akin to what I shared earlier regarding what my eldest son would say to me when he was in his late teens ... "Mom, it is your way or the highway."

Good Night Keepthefaith.

Janet

+++++++

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=615.0

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/






Janet

Thank you Janet.But isn't that defeating the purpose of all Transparency??

I don't think so.  A private research site gives members an opportunity to work together to  create a document by focusing in a one particular topic without any distractions.  The Natalee's Freebirds share the outcome of all their hard work.

I just chose to leave for my own reasons ... it just was not my thing. I like an open forum.

Keepthefaith ... click on the links I provided and ... read some of the Natalee's Freebirds' documents.  I think you will be impressed.

Janet

I have checked it out from time to time and they do have great information!What is the criteria for being a member?Who is the best information organizer?Who controls the Freebirds?

[texasmom]

If anyone is a member of a private forum can you tell me why be a part of something private?? I didn't expect anyone to answer 

The Natalee Freebirds is a private forum.  Members compile research encompassing a particular topic related to the Natalee Holloway case into a well organized document and ... then that document is posted for all to read on their own blog.  The Natalee's Freebirds also share each of their documents with the SM site.  Klaas posts the Natalee's Freebirds document in the Corruption and Collusion Thread.

I was once a member but made the decision to leave.  I am not a very good team player.  I have my own ideas.  Something akin to what I shared earlier regarding what my eldest son would say to me when he was in his late teens ... "Mom, it is your way or the highway."

Good Night Keepthefaith.

Janet

+++++++

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=615.0

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/

Janet

Thank you Janet.But isn't that defeating the purpose of all Transparency??

I don't think so.  A private research site gives members an opportunity to work together to  create a document by focusing in a one particular topic without any distractions.  The Natalee's Freebirds share the outcome of all their hard work.

I just chose to leave for my own reasons ... it just was not my thing. I like an open forum.

Keepthefaith ... click on the links I provided and ... read some of the Natalee's Freebirds' documents.  I think you will be impressed.

Janet

I agree Janet.  And from the work I've seen, the purpose of the Freebird's site is genuine and good.  I think I would have been honored to have been invited there. 
 

[Keepthefaith]

It's all good...No reason to get excited...stay cool Monkeys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCwCBh0z3Hs
Late night...just wanted t lighten things up a bit...
Good night all

As i'm a Seattlelite and Hendrix fan that was a good choice!

[texasmom]

ENOUGH!  How many forums a person belongs to is nobodys business.  The only time any of that becomes my business is when because of the other forum THIS forum gets disrupted.  It's also a strong possibility that some of the disruptions are intentional.

Right now I don't think anything intentional is going on.  I think we are ALL simply trying to figure out what the heck has been going on.

With that, I'm calling it a night.  GOODNIGHT ALL!

Goodnight Klaas!   

[Keepthefaith]

If anyone is a member of a private forum can you tell me why be a part of something private?? I didn't expect anyone to answer 

The Natalee Freebirds is a private forum.  Members compile research encompassing a particular topic related to the Natalee Holloway case into a well organized document and ... then that document is posted for all to read on their own blog.  The Natalee's Freebirds also share each of their documents with the SM site.  Klaas posts the Natalee's Freebirds document in the Corruption and Collusion Thread.

I was once a member but made the decision to leave.  I am not a very good team player.  I have my own ideas.  Something akin to what I shared earlier regarding what my eldest son would say to me when he was in his late teens ... "Mom, it is your way or the highway."

Good Night Keepthefaith.

Janet

+++++++

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=615.0

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/

Janet

Thank you Janet.But isn't that defeating the purpose of all Transparency??

I don't think so.  A private research site gives members an opportunity to work together to  create a document by focusing in a one particular topic without any distractions.  The Natalee's Freebirds share the outcome of all their hard work.

I just chose to leave for my own reasons ... it just was not my thing. I like an open forum.

Keepthefaith ... click on the links I provided and ... read some of the Natalee's Freebirds' documents.  I think you will be impressed.

Janet

I agree Janet.  And from the work I've seen, the purpose of the Freebird's site is genuine and good.  I think I would have been honored to have been invited there. 
 

It will take a group effort from everyone to bring the EVIL of the Island to light.Why are people scared to admit that there a part of these private forums?Not that i care.Seems trivial..I do find a concerted effort to discredit Kermit and i,for one,don't know why??

[Tamikosmom]

GOOD NIGHT AND GOD BLESS!!

Janet
11:15 PM PT

[texasmom]

It's all good...No reason to get excited...stay cool Monkeys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCwCBh0z3Hs
Late night...just wanted t lighten things up a bit...
Good night all

   I love it!  Thanks billb!  

[texasmom]

GOOD NIGHT AND GOD BLESS!!

Janet
11:15 PM PT

Good Night Janet, and God Bless you too!   

[Keepthefaith]

GOOD NIGHT AND GOD BLESS!!

Janet
11:15 PM PT

Good night

[MuffyBee]

Hi Spooky

[2NJSons_Mom]

Hi Spooky

   I was tempted to do the same...

[MuffyBee]

Hi Spooky

   I was tempted to do the same...

It's great seeing old friends.   

[Anna]

I went to sleep watching the Caylee Anthony coverage.  Maybe it's just as well, lol.

I don't know what to think and hope something comes of the tapes of the Colombians that Rob told us about.  I have often been accused of having an agenda because I don't subscribe to certain things I consider a diversion.  Never been a freebird but have posted at BFN and even done battle at RU as have others.

AFAIK, it was only speculated Kyle posted anything at Freebirds.  Not said as a fact.  I don't know.

Several of our regular monkeys are not posting lately.  I hope they are just busy with seasonal activities.

We have a tremendous task to get this investigation going again and back on the rails.  I hope all will be helping in that regard no matter what their personal thoughts and theories may be.

Goodnight all and may tomorrow bring us unity in our efforts.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Goodnight, Anna. 

[Mere]

Good Night Monkeys....some of us stay up in the rafters....but we read every word.   

[2NJSons_Mom]

Good Night Monkeys....some of us stay up in the rafters....but we read every word.   

Goodnight, Mere...always good to see you.

[texasmom]

I read Jesse Jackson was in Aruba (with his wife).  I didn't understand enough of what I read to state what the exact purpose of the trip was.  I have some thoughts, but I'll keep them to myself.

 

[finngirl]

I will say this re private forums:
people can be duped into joining ... as I was

we were "reruited" from various NH sites

hindsight being 20/20,
I'm pretty sure the sales pitches
were tailored to each individual

mine followed along the lines of
"no idle chit chat/purely research" and
"open forums do the work for defense attys"
(ie: tipping them to everything discovered)

we were encouraged to choose partners
and research certain topics or persons
on an as-needed/as-asked basis

I met finbar there/some members post here now

human nature being what it is:
turns out there was a group-within-the-group
(unknown to most of us, AFAIK)
which summarized everyone's work
and passed it along to factions w/in the H/T families
(while claiming credit for the research)

then the site closed w/ literally a few hours notice
and all of our research poofed ... or so they tell me

live/learn, I guess 

[texasmom]

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/



Kyle: The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th


May 16 - Kyle posted: I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains. The witness claims to have seen a muddy Joran coming out of the Monserat pond after disposing of her body.
<snip>
The 40+ investigators brought in from Holland never stepped foot in the pond

John Silvetti's email to Kyle: The Polis did not drain that pond and they did not search it, period!

JOHN SILVETTI TELLS CAPS THAT THE TRAP/CAGE IS A POSTOFFICE AND THE CAGE WAS EMPTY.
MARCH 3, 2008 – John Silvetti meets with CapsLockWizard

From an email sent from CapsLockWizard:
“Yes, We did have the meeting today. It was a long meeting and we are all set to start the process of a permit to drain. Witness will gave statement to Lawyer (Helen), Lawyer will motion to drain the pond to OM. If Motion denied, will go to media and expose more dirt. John knows everything now and he will stay behind to help and protect. John state the cage was empty. it was full of these broken plastic bags that shows on the cam like skull, but he said to me it is the water doing tricks when picture was taken. He thinks also it is a postoffice. When I told him the story about the cage, he also understand now some things that he could not have question about. Like why is the Panter allways parked over the spot while there is notting anymore in he cage. The meeting end at 5:00 pm and was very good. About the Pipes. They will be checked. Also John thinks that the signs are there but need to drain the pond. Also Withness is 99% it was some one that came from the pond area that he saw, because it looks like a dutch man and was cover in mud from the chest down.”


Kyle stated: "This is a picture from Natalee standing on the beach and rotated and scaled to the image to matching the body form inside the trap. It matches the end of the skirt identically to what was seen in the cage."

So if we look at Caps' email to Dave and then his posts, MUMinOhio is correct. Caps knew nothing and then he is somehow connected to a witness who magically appears and they go to John Silvetti and it turns John Silvetti from looking at the trap/cage and to looking at the pond, brings the witness to the states for a polygraph test and the evidence is gone from that trap/cage because no one knew except Kyle Kingman and that ROV unit that captured the last photos.
Meanwhile John Silvetti is trying to set up an office in Aruba. And so Aruba masterminded the diversion away from any thing about the person's remains inside that cage/trap in the ocean as well as Joran created a media stir with his sit-down Greta interview that he sold Natalee into sex slavery, then the attention turned to Rudy Croes statement Jan van der Straaten was involved in covering-up but that was also brought out in 2006 Jan v/d Straatten was indeed investigated and had telephone conversations with people about the case that he should not have contacts with, or even talk about the case.
and now as Hero Brinkman pointed out, if he knew of this, why did he wait 3 1/2 years to say something about it?

No body - no case seems to have been the Aruba code word for CORRUPTION!

#1468 on: May 07, 2008, 05:28:28 AM  muminohio
When Caps first started posting in the forum he knew very little about the case, or so it appears from his early posts. He asked us about the family, the friends, the private plane and the pimps. He asked about the suspects and about the people such as Julia and others that continually misinformed us. He needed our help and knowledge with these pieces of the puzzle. There is nothing wrong with that, I personally have spent a lot of time and posts sharing any information I had or could find.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379700#msg379700


NOW LET'S FOLLOW CAPS, THE WITNESS/Shango/Simian, ARUBA COPS, KYLE KINGMAN and John Silvetti:

Kyle said: "My opinion on Simian is that he is a detective/cop involved in the case since the beginning. My understanding is that there is only one of the originals remaining. He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed. The vision was cryptic and actually contained a latitude which from what he claimed could have been anywhere in the world. The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude. Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach. Basically, if you stood on land and pointed straight to the trap and were right on the money... this is what the difference amounts to. Based on this latitude we payed a little more attention to the northern portions of the search grid near that Latitude. The trap was found shortly after, within the original search area, but very close to the provided latitude. I would have found the trap without the latitude, but it was very strange. None of us pressed the two for more information because they clearly were VERY uncomfortable.

The brother of the detective came to us and was very persistent over the information. He was almost in tears and just had to "clear his conscience" about it.

His brother, the detective came with him to 'validate him'.

Personally, I think the detective was Simian. The guy kept his mouth shut for the most part but was obviously intelligent and knew a lot more than he led on. It didn't seem he immediately trusted us but gradually became more comfortable, enough to talk.

I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap. Basically, by using his brother and claiming the information he shared was only based on a vision, it distances the detective from responsibility and makes it hard to point back to him should it be a problem later. I think the whole game was bogus and he knew almost everything but was helping how he was able and felt comfortable. I don't understand why he had to use his brother and claim a "vision".

The implications of this are tremendous. If true, it means that the early investigators knew where and how Natalee was disposed and it was kept secret and covered up. Not wanting to be implicated but still wanting to help, he could shift the information to a vision of his brothers, perhaps still help a bit and claim no-involvement. However, this man was intelligent enough, cared about the case, yet was self implicated to a high enough level to want to be kept his knowledge a secret. He spoke well enough english and knew everything in my opinion. Perhaps I should find out his name. I never got it. We may never have.

Kyle said: "Based on the little I know of Simian, there are striking similarities that stood out after I laid down on the evening I met with the detective and his brother.Perhaps Simian is the detective and Shango is the brother.


Kyle said: "- IF a key detective's brother knew the latitude the trap was disposed at or very near, then it's probable the detective knew the same.

- IF the detective knew the latitude, how did he come to this knowledge?

- Who else knew this information?


Since the trap was only in 90ft of water and the detective knew about the latitude, did the Polis already know if it's location prior to the search?


The detective originally wouldn't meet with us and only wanted us to meet with his brother. We convinced him to meet along with his brother and made him feel as comfortable as possible. He reluctantly agreed but wouldn't talk. The brother did all the talking at first. It seemed to me the brother was acting out the "vision" scenario to protect the detective brother. It didn't feel like the brother was in any way corrupt or connected. Also, he wasn't that bright compared to the detective brother. After a while the detective started asking some questions and loosened up a bit. With the pointed questions he asked he proved he knew a lot, but we didn't press him.


The reason I think the detective is Simian is that:
- he is intimately connected to the case
- forced into silence
- both he and the brother seemed to want the case solved but the whole encounter was so CRYPTIC
- he is condemned if his identity and knowledge were BOTH exposed. One or the other, he's still safe
- He was intelligent and had a good enough command over the english language (not common over the rest of the bunch)


- IF his brother was acting on his behalf with the whole 'I had a vision' act, then the detective's character supports pulling something like Simian off.
- the detective was very internet and computer savy, which was unusual for the bulk of the Polis.
- It seemed he knew who I was when we were introduced, and said something indicating he had been reading the blog.
- his character was very cryptic; the way he moved, spoke, and asked questions was just not normal.

"Caps is not Simian. He has indicated he knows who was either Shango or Simian. The person he thinks it is, is a cop.


it was Clyde Burke that went to the meeting with Helen Lejuz

               JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!!!!