Natalee Case Discussion #753 5/20 - 5/28

[friend of monkeys]

thanks whiskey

[friend of monkeys]

wow...quiet day...hardly made a page

Hi, FOM.....I think you can get the pages rolling....

Have you heard from MJ?  Wondering if anything new with him.

no..haven't heard from him in a while.
i think his computer is down.  he called a few months ago and wanted me to send him a new cell phone.
Everything is cheaper here i guess.  I never sent it and have not heard from him since

[friend of monkeys]

ipsigs...i see u

[2NJSons_Mom]

wow...quiet day...hardly made a page

Hi, FOM.....I think you can get the pages rolling....

Have you heard from MJ?  Wondering if anything new with him.

no..haven't heard from him in a while.
i think his computer is down.  he called a few months ago and wanted me to send him a new cell phone.
Everything is cheaper here i guess.  I never sent it and have not heard from him since

Guess 'be well' CC couldn't hook him up with a phone??     & don't tell me somebody stole his old one.....I guess I was just wondering if he's working, etc. 

[friend of monkeys]

wow...quiet day...hardly made a page

Hi, FOM.....I think you can get the pages rolling....

Have you heard from MJ?  Wondering if anything new with him.

no..haven't heard from him in a while.
i think his computer is down.  he called a few months ago and wanted me to send him a new cell phone.
Everything is cheaper here i guess.  I never sent it and have not heard from him since

Guess 'be well' CC couldn't hook him up with a phone??     & don't tell me somebody stole his old one.....I guess I was just wondering if he's working, etc. 

he was.
honestly, when I heard he was saying that maybe Natalee RAN AWAY
i began to wonder if it was a worthwhile friendship to continue

[friend of monkeys]

and...i also considered he might be saying that out of ALE inspired "fear"...still, it bothered me.

[Observer]

and...i also considered he might be saying that out of ALE inspired "fear"...still, it bothered me.

I don't know the guy but I doubt that is what he really thinks..Many of the Arubans I have spoken to have that kind of attitude but quickly change after getting to know them. Normally they admit to most of the obvious,but tell us to look at our crimes, government and say they do not want to get involved. The Fear is very real in Aruba,especially those that were warned to shut there mouths. It's amazing that it was Paul Van Der Sloot who sued the Govt and not Micky Johns.

We know that Karin Janssen held back vital information about PVDS and only released it upon appeals,that stopped PVDS from collecting his judgement $$$ and then she left the country. She is the same person that had this info in the beginning,but released PVDS as a suspect and issued him his good conduct card,enabling him to work for the GOVT and practice law.

================================
June 14th Interview with Micky John and his ATTY
Micky says he never got a reason why he was arrested until today. Micky confirms that they were trying to set someone up and he and his colleague were the unfortunate ones.
http://tinyurl.com/3xpjsu

[friend of monkeys]

right....no one really wants to talk about it right off.  and mj prob wants to forget it all together.  unless it gets him something in return perhaps. i had only known him about a year when this happened.  only well enough to believe initally that he would n't do anything to Natalee

[texasmom]

and...i also considered he might be saying that out of ALE inspired "fear"...still, it bothered me.

I don't know the guy but I doubt that is what he really thinks..Many of the Arubans I have spoken to have that kind of attitude but quickly change after getting to know them. Normally they admit to most of the obvious,but tell us to look at our crimes, government and say they do not want to get involved. The Fear is very real in Aruba,especially those that were warned to shut there mouths. It's amazing that it was Paul Van Der Sloot who sued the Govt and not Micky Johns.

We know that Karin Janssen held back vital information about PVDS and only released it upon appeals,that stopped PVDS from collecting his judgement $$$ and then she left the country. She is the same person that had this info in the beginning,but released PVDS as a suspect and issued him his good conduct card,enabling him to work for the GOVT and practice law.


================================
June 14th Interview with Micky John and his ATTY
Micky says he never got a reason why he was arrested until today. Micky confirms that they were trying to set someone up and he and his colleague were the unfortunate ones.
http://tinyurl.com/3xpjsu

This conversation is reminding me that I still have a lot of questions about Judge Kuiperdal and the extent of his involvement in the coverup of the crime.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/08/national/main700290.shtml

Judge Keeps Aruba Suspects In Jail

ORANJESTAD, Aruba, June 8, 2005
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(CBS/AP) An Aruban judge ruled Wednesday there was sufficient cause to continue holding two former hotel security guards arrested earlier this week in connection with the disappearance of an Alabama honors student.

Judge J.S. Kuiperdal decided that authorities may hold suspects Nick John, 30, and Abraham Jones, 28, while prosecutors investigate them on suspicion of first- and second-degree murder and capital kidnapping, said their respective court-appointed defense lawyers, Noraina Pietersz and Chris Lejuez. Capital kidnapping is a charge brought when an abduction victim is killed. The two suspects have not been formally charged.

Attorney General Caren Janssen confirmed the judge's decision in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.

"They are accused of, first of all, murder. Conspiracy to commit murder homicide, conspiracy to commit homicide and capital kidnapping," Lejeuz said Wednesday on CBS News' The Early Show.

Both suspects, whom he initially represented, told Lejeuz "they've never seen Natalee Holloway, and they've never spoken to Natalee Holloway," he told co-anchor Hannah Storm.

The suspects were first identified publicly Wednesday by friends and relatives. Pietersz and Lejuez confirmed their identities following the judge's closed-door hearing, which took place at a police station where the men are jailed, outside the capital of Oranjestad.

The former security guards worked for a hotel two blocks from the Holiday Inn where 18-year-old Natalee Holloway had been staying. Their work contracts had expired on May 29, one day before Holloway disappeared, said authorities close to the case who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Investigators have not found any solid proof of Holloway's death, however, despite extensive land and water searches, which continued Wednesday. Holloway's parents were holding out hope that she was still alive.

The parents said they had not received any request for ransom or any other evidence that she had been kidnapped or murdered.

"As far as I know, there's no evidence of that, so that gives me hope that Natalee is still alive," stepfather Jug Holloway told Early Show co-anchor René Syler. "That's what we're here to do, is find Natalee."

Judge Kuiperdal will review the former security guards' case again next Wednesday and every eight days after that until there is a final resolution, the defense lawyers said. Aruban law allows authorities to hold the two suspects, who were arrested Sunday, for a total of 116 days without filing formal charges.

In an interview following the hearing, Pietersz said the prosecutors had asked that the defendants be kept in jail at least until next Wednesday, when they hope to conclude their investigation.

Under Aruban law, only serious suspicions from investigators — not solid evidence — are needed for a judge to rule that the suspects can continue to be held, Pietersz said.

"I do believe my client is innocent, that's all I can tell you," she added.

Lejuez asserted earlier Wednesday that there is "no evidence whatsoever" to indicate the suspects had anything to do with Holloway's disappearance.

At least one of the two men had a reputation of trying to pick up women at tourist hotels on the Dutch Caribbean island, police said. But both men insist they never met Holloway, Lejuez said.

Jones' common-law wife, Cynthia De Graaf, said she and her husband were together continuously both on May 29 and May 30.

"He was home. He was even sick," De Graaf said, breaking down in tears as she waited for the hearing to start. "They ruined everything. My daughter has been asking for her father."

Jones' mother, Cynthia Rosalie Jones, 64, added that the only way her son knew about Holloway was from seeing the news on television.

"They have my son there for something he knows nothing about," Jones said emphatically. "My son is innocent."

Police last week questioned and then released three men whom they referred to as "persons of interest." The three told police they took Holloway to a beach and then dropped her off at her hotel the night she vanished.

"Those guys saw her last," said 33-year-old Alvin Cornett, a man who identified himself as a friend of Jones. He added that the case against the former security guards "is like a frame."

"Those other three guys are rich."

Jones and John "are just regular guys," Cornett said.

Holloway vanished while on a five-day trip with more than 100 classmates celebrating their high school graduation. Seven chaperones accompanied them.


 

[Observer]

Nice find TM! It makes me wonder why the shuffling of judges so early in the case? Did he go from a Judge to working in the law firm of Helen Lejuez? When they reviewed this case how did the Dutch even move on past the first week? Heck what were there impressions about the events of June 10th and 11th? They can't explain any of it and this nightmare has reached epic status for being utterly ridiculous.

[WhiskeyGirl]

and...i also considered he might be saying that out of ALE inspired "fear"...still, it bothered me.

I don't know the guy but I doubt that is what he really thinks..Many of the Arubans I have spoken to have that kind of attitude but quickly change after getting to know them. Normally they admit to most of the obvious,but tell us to look at our crimes, government and say they do not want to get involved. The Fear is very real in Aruba,especially those that were warned to shut there mouths. It's amazing that it was Paul Van Der Sloot who sued the Govt and not Micky Johns.

We know that Karin Janssen held back vital information about PVDS and only released it upon appeals,that stopped PVDS from collecting his judgement $$$ and then she left the country. She is the same person that had this info in the beginning,but released PVDS as a suspect and issued him his good conduct card,enabling him to work for the GOVT and practice law.

================================
June 14th Interview with Micky John and his ATTY
Micky says he never got a reason why he was arrested until today. Micky confirms that they were trying to set someone up and he and his colleague were the unfortunate ones.
http://tinyurl.com/3xpjsu

I wonder why the two security guards aren't devoting the rest of their lives to filing compensation claims agains the government? 

I wonder where they are after three years?

[texasmom]

Nice find TM! It makes me wonder why the shuffling of judges so early in the case? Did he go from a Judge to working in the law firm of Helen Lejuez? When they reviewed this case how did the Dutch even move on past the first week? Heck what were there impressions about the events of June 10th and 11th? They can't explain any of it and this nightmare has reached epic status for being utterly ridiculous.

Good questions *******, and I'd really like to know the answer to the bolded one when it comes to this Judge.  Very strange in my opinion.  I smell something rotten...
 

[2NJSons_Mom]

right....no one really wants to talk about it right off.  and mj prob wants to forget it all together.  unless it gets him something in return perhaps. i had only known him about a year when this happened.  only well enough to believe initally that he would n't do anything to Natalee

Understand where you are, and rightfully so....you shared, so very early on the friendship....now, at this juncture, I pushed the envelope a little....does the bolded mean that you have a little doubt?  If so, why? 

[friend of monkeys]

right....no one really wants to talk about it right off.  and mj prob wants to forget it all together.  unless it gets him something in return perhaps. i had only known him about a year when this happened.  only well enough to believe initally that he would n't do anything to Natalee

Understand where you are, and rightfully so....you shared, so very early on the friendship....now, at this juncture, I pushed the envelope a little....does the bolded mean that you have a little doubt?  If so, why? 

no, 2NJ, never had a doubt.  i still don't think he would ever hurt anyone .
i don't know why he never sued.  maybe no lawyer in aruba wanted to touch his case? i don't know.
i think he tried.   

[Observer]

and...i also considered he might be saying that out of ALE inspired "fear"...still, it bothered me.

I wonder why the two security guards aren't devoting the rest of their lives to filing compensation claims agains the government? 

I wonder where they are after three years?

My guess would be the same as all the others. It's because they have to live there! These two men and there Family's are extremely vulnerable if they did anything to oppose that Government. They are immigrants and the visas lie in the hands of Mr Rudy Croes. It's not like MJ and the other security guard live in Aruba alone as they have others to think about as well. I am sure that has crossed the minds of many of the witnesses in this case. I can only imagine how ugly things could get for someone in Aruba if they cross that Govt..Heck Natalee is a total victim and look what they did to her and her Family.

[WhiskeyGirl]

What about Helen?  This old post from BF at RWV seems to suggest that Helen would be a lawsuit target some day.  I wonder if anything has been filed against her?

Gang rape is a motive. The suspects' statements are evidence whether you agree or not.


Posted by: CateKelly | Monday, May 22, 2006 at 06:48 PM
++++++++++++++++++++++

The "gang rape" thing was created by BHT and her infertile imagination and propogated by Helen Lejuez. Poor Helen. I would imagine she's going to have several lawsuits pending against her shortly. YooooHoooo Helen. Or should we call you Jane Doe. LOL

BF

Posted by: Bigfish | Monday, May 22, 2006 at 06:53 PM

[Observer]

What about Helen?  This old post from BF at RWV seems to suggest that Helen would be a lawsuit target some day.  I wonder if anything has been filed against her?

Gang rape is a motive. The suspects' statements are evidence whether you agree or not.


Posted by: CateKelly | Monday, May 22, 2006 at 06:48 PM
++++++++++++++++++++++

The "gang rape" thing was created by BHT and her infertile imagination and propogated by Helen Lejuez. Poor Helen. I would imagine she's going to have several lawsuits pending against her shortly. YooooHoooo Helen. Or should we call you Jane Doe. LOL

BF

Posted by: Bigfish | Monday, May 22, 2006 at 06:53 PM

Why? She only relayed to us what the OM told her and the documents she read. Steve Cohen did the same thing and Dompig made some claims on video.

[2NJSons_Mom]

right....no one really wants to talk about it right off.  and mj prob wants to forget it all together.  unless it gets him something in return perhaps. i had only known him about a year when this happened.  only well enough to believe initally that he would n't do anything to Natalee

Understand where you are, and rightfully so....you shared, so very early on the friendship....now, at this juncture, I pushed the envelope a little....does the bolded mean that you have a little doubt?  If so, why? 

no, 2NJ, never had a doubt.  i still don't think he would ever hurt anyone .
i don't know why he never sued.  maybe no lawyer in aruba wanted to touch his case? i don't know.
i think he tried.   

Thank you, fom....when you don't have the resources, it's hard to fight back.  You may be right about lack of interest by law 'professionals' in Aruba.

[2NJSons_Mom]

and...i also considered he might be saying that out of ALE inspired "fear"...still, it bothered me.

I wonder why the two security guards aren't devoting the rest of their lives to filing compensation claims agains the government? 

I wonder where they are after three years?

My guess would be the same as all the others. It's because they have to live there! These two men and there Family's are extremely vulnerable if they did anything to oppose that Government. They are immigrants and the visas lie in the hands of Mr Rudy Croes. It's not like MJ and the other security guard live in Aruba alone as they have others to think about as well. I am sure that has crossed the minds of many of the witnesses in this case. I can only imagine how ugly things could get for someone in Aruba if they cross that Govt..Heck Natalee is a total victim and look what they did to her and her Family.

Good point, *******...I wasn't thinking of national status when I asked FOM about MJ....

[friend of monkeys]

What about Helen?  This old post from BF at RWV seems to suggest that Helen would be a lawsuit target some day.  I wonder if anything has been filed against her?

Gang rape is a motive. The suspects' statements are evidence whether you agree or not.


Posted by: CateKelly | Monday, May 22, 2006 at 06:48 PM
++++++++++++++++++++++

The "gang rape" thing was created by BHT and her infertile imagination and propogated by Helen Lejuez. Poor Helen. I would imagine she's going to have several lawsuits pending against her shortly. YooooHoooo Helen. Or should we call you Jane Doe. LOL

BF

Posted by: Bigfish | Monday, May 22, 2006 at 06:53 PM

wow whiskey.....where'd ya find that????   you monkeys are amazing. 

the only thing i know is it took A LONG time for mj to be taken off the suspect list.
And mj said he could not sue til he was off the list.
his lawyer seemed to be co#k blocking him tho....taking forever....i thought he should get a different one, but he was confident he had a great lawyer.