Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

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Everybody make it in OK?   ::MonkeyTongue::

YAY.........we made it here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!fun  and clean cage for now.....YAY

Yes a fresh cage!

Alright have been looking it up and Murt is right.  Decomposition of a body starts almost immediately depending on how the person died, it can start with in moments or hours. 

It would not have to be a strong smell for the dogs to hit, but Murt I think you were right that it was still a "fresh" smell which could be the reasoning for the random hits by both dogs.

DOLCE - right here  ::MonkeyWink::

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http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/dolcetwins.jpg

I believe her body would have had to be left in that backyard for at least one night in order for any smell to have remained up until July 16th.

Klaas, sorry for OT, but can you stop my comments on the front page from going through? I'll tell you why if you can't firgure it out.

OK  Monkeys.......I have to go too work now.......yuk....but I will be back later tonight and try to catch up from here......Justice for Caylee............Thats what we want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where are my Monkey manners...here are some links guys

http://www.shroudstory.com/faq/turin-shroud-faq-11.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/ask_the_doctor/decompositionafterdeath.shtml

http://www.hbo.com/autopsy/baden/qa_2.html

OKAY...not to gross anyone out.. but when my mom died... uh... she was at home... and we are in a rural area... so by the time the coroner got here.... she had been gone for at least an hour..
i held her hand...and sat by her till they got there... and ...honestly...there wasnt anything odorous about it..


okay.. that was nasty to write..

sorry..

I remember seeing the pictures in the backyard, and there were yellow flags and red flags. Could each one of those colors represent a different dog?

Taken care of/deleted.  Your original post and your fp post requesting I delete it.  Email me why, LOL

smklaas@hotmail.com

GA was not at home after he picked up Casey's car.
I believe he was gone from when he picked it up until 10 pm.

Previously being LE, could GA have attempted to rid the Pontiac of the odor
and mess with the chloroform ?

Using it to rid the car of the decomp odor and decomp
is a possibility IMO, due to the high level they found in there ? What do u all think ?

BTW: Hi Murt, nice to see u joined us monkeys !

LATER HH!

I did the same thing 2 years ago. Nothing nasty about it IMO. Be proud, it was a loving and courageous thing to do for your Mom !

just something that makes me go HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

WHY is it that you dont see ANY extended family speaking up for the anthonys? why IS that..  ??

just something that bugs me..

FYI
...... Dogs can sense odors at concentrations nearly 100 million times lower than humans
http://www.nhm.org/exhibitions/dogs/formfunction/smell.html

Whew! Thanks so much.

I can say it here since you deleted them. When it asked for my name, I put my real name, first and last, instead of memphis. I was quite alarmed to see it up there staring back at me while I was awaiting moderation. lol

Thank you so much!

I found this on my first jump

My Unpopular Theory


I think Casey let Caylee get into the pool without supervision.  She found her dead later on.  She made frantic calls to her parents.  She then began to worry about what her mother would say/do and also that she wouldn't be able to see Tony.

She put Caylee in the backyard somewhere, probably the playhouse.

Got herself dolled up for Tony and left the house before mom got home.

I think all of her uncaring behavour since the incident is nothing more than who she truly is; an uncaring person.  She's a textbook sociopath to the nth degree.  She's careless, impulsive, cunning, wicked, and stupid, to be honest.  She's no mastermind in her criminal ways, she had just never gone up against anyone who wanted to hold her accountable. 


BUT.....this might also be unpopular of me having said I think it was an "accident due to neglect"

I believe she should spend the rest of her life in prison!    A sociopath like her scares the bejeezus out of me.  Not only can she move on without a hitch after seeing the death of her own baby, but I think she's capable of so much more horror.

So there you have it!

Creepy! I didn't know this. I peeked over at websleuths and found that the city dump is less than one mile from the Anthony home. "Dad, she's close, she's close".

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69728

Thank you to all the monkeys, new and old who have provided all of the info.
I was going to the FoxOrlando blog, but that seemed to have  deteriorated to a make fun of ppl blog.
It is Canadian Thanksgiving today, we are doing ours family get together tomorrow.
This coming week will bring some new charges, I hope and I am clearing the decks in the cooking and housework dept. today in anticipation of the coming week.
.. I still think about Jessica Lunsford as that one brought me to me knees in the kitchen when they announced that she had been found and where. I thought that maybe one of Mark's friends or someone who saw the family aound had done it and had been watching the house. When he was away that night, they struck. As far as I know, the JessicaLunsford.com website is still open and donations or a purchases of wrist bands are still available.
On a Thanksgiving note, I am going to be grateful today for what I do have in terms of family ( most of mine have passed ) and friends who have passed who I miss terribly.

okay.. i sucked at THAT quote thingy too..:(
sorry gang.. i WILL get it right SOMEDAY!

OH, lolol..I didn't pay attention to that.  I could have simply changed it from your real name to Memphis.  Be sure to change it next time you make a front page post because it will want to use what you used last time.

This has bugged me from the start.....no family and no friends
That is a red flag
Even I have a couple family members and one friend  ::MonkeyCool::

this was MY post..
sorry if i quoted it to the wrong person.. my bad! :(


thanks... i just meant that it was kinda nasty to talk about it in those terms (odor)

anywho... yeppers.. best thing i ever did was have my parent stay with us till the bitter (and i DO mean bitter) end..
mom with cancer... dad with emphasema..

of course... i COULDNT have done it without my darlin honeymoon (husband)... who did the MAJOR caregiving of them both till the end..


OKAY...not to gross anyone out.. but when my mom died... uh... she was at home... and we are in a rural area... so by the time the coroner got here.... she had been gone for at least an hour..
i held her hand...and sat by her till they got there... and ...honestly...there wasnt anything odorous about it..


okay.. that was nasty to write..

sorry..

Thanks soooo much Klaas!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

One of my buddies from another site lives near the Anthony's...now she doesn't know them personally but she drives by whenever we ask her to.  LOL

Anyhow, her son's friend has a good friend right there in the neighborhood of Anthony's....NObody likes them!

They don't HAVE friends.  They didn't have any before this started so that's why we don't see any now.

Was it June 18th when Casey borrowed the shovel?  Did Cindy say she got it to chop bamboo?  ::MonkeyEek:: Why would she return home just to chop bamboo? ::MonkeyNoNo::

Has any of our talented monkeys that are mapping cell tower pings .. checked to see if her "home tower" was used after June 16th.  Like she was at the house making calls ?

A lot a ?'s I know... sorry  ::MonkeyWink::

i KNOOOOOOOOW... i mean C'MON .. where is her best friend (cindys) ??? why isnt SHE coming out and standin up for her friend? where is georges best friend? why isnt HE coming out to stand up for his buddy? no former cop friends that can stand up for them?

makes ya go HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

IMISSTHIRDGRDE~ I agree with you, I think she was initially put in the sandbox, then moved to the trunk and then moved again to where she is waiting for Tim to bring her home...by the way, you mentioned you lived at the beach too~which one??


I think she spent more time in the backyard.  Long enough for some real good decomp to go on.

That ladder being left at pool side....cadaver dog hits in backyard...I have to go with backyard is where death occurred.

I believe it was the neighbor who said Casey said she wanted to cut up some bamboo that she kept tripping on..............

WELL MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYBE casey was gonna BURY caylee UNDER the fast growing BAMBOO...

okay.. probably not..
but i SURE as heck am not buyin whats shes sellin about diggin UP bamboo.. oh HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLL no... not with her track record .... i mean C'MON ! she wasnt even WORKING when she SAID she was WORKING.....


MANUAL LABOR and casey? naw.. those two NEVER met! ;)


[/quote]

I live in Oceanside, CA.   San Diego for those who aren't familiar with the state.

The gas sample that tested positive to chloroform came from the smelly trunk of the car if I remember correctly.  That gas sample also contained other gaseous substances, including the ones responsible for the smell.  The pattern of the other gaseous products help pin point decomposition from a human body.  I am an experienced chemist with forensic history. I like to clarify what has appeared in the press, which I know by experience comes out oddly at times, and uses the vernacular of the lay public. 

Another interesting product of "pure" chloroform is the deadly war gas phosgene COCl2.  I indeed have run into this when opening a virgin lab bottle of chloroform.  A photochemical reaction takes place where light breaks chloroform down to phosgene and hydrochloric acid.  In labs usually a little ethanol is added to the chloroform to attempt to stablize it, but even that does not always work.    So the chloroform in Casey's trunk may have been accompanied by phosgene.  Depends upon if the phosgene has gone on further to react with say the upholstery.

So any stablized chloroform would also contain some ethanol.  If unstablized, then contains hydrochloric acid and phosgene in virgin bottles.  That is unless the chloroform has been stored in ideal conditions in the cold and tightly sealed. 

http://www.bath.ac.uk/internal/bio-sci/bbsafe/chloroform.htm

According to Cindy, George and Lee that Car stunk pretty darn bad
I wonder what that Car smells like now
Jose won motion to test car when Dr Kobie gets that trunk open do anyone know
Does that Small go away? or is Dr Kobie gonna get that horrid wave of smell also?

Hate to quote myself, but does anybody know the answer to this? ::MonkeyConfused::

well.. i dont have a pooop load of "friends"...LOTS of aquaintences... but i KNOW my FAMILY would stand up for me..

or at least drive by if you asked them to...*LOL*

Your theory could be very close to the actual events...with BIG assumption that chloroform was used for another reason before or after Caylee's death...but when and for what reason?

If before her death than chloroform was used on Caylee to make her sleep? for sexual pleasures?...for meth/drug production?...

If after her death than someone use this highly uncommon material to clean the trunk?...to frame KC?...

Chloroform is another mystery. The same as ZG....IMO...

If Caylee is left in the back yard sand box or play house  I fould have thougth the family dog  would have a fit.. trying to find Caylee.
Thoughts on this ?

---

According to Kathi Belich WFTV, as of a week or so ago, the car still smelled bad.

Good question...I mean what's left to test in there?  Maybe more "stain" on matting in trunk, perhaps...but I'd bet the odor is most likely gone.  In many instances I think Kobe is simply going to see who/what/when/how testing was done...sort of to just verifiy and agree with findings.

I like Kobe.

You lost me after "The gas sample"

I do think about the dogs, myself...but not sure.  Do the dogs go outside?


But if she was placed in the sandbox with the lid on, I suppose one night might not yield enough odor for the family dog, and untrained cadaver dog, to freak out necessarily.

could be Orchid  or  how "hard" of hit in that spot

WOW  that tells me it was pretty darn strong..
We wont know until trial what Dr Kobie has to say about it
But he is no dummy he will know that smell

It would be wise for Casey to get pregnant with Baez's child - he would protect her to the nth degree.  JMO>

ssshhh...it would help her appeal!

i have a ugly mix of shitzu and blue heeler(yes you read that right..) and a little yorkie... and BOTH of them would have been ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL over any new dug ground or any...uh... spots that might have ...uh.... something not living  under them...


yikes... what a nasty picture... if the DOGS dug up the baby.... maaaaaaaannnnnnn


naw... she wouldnt have dug down deep enough to bury a baby... from the dogs..

like i said....her and mister MANUAL LABOR were NOT good friends...

 ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel:: Finally found it~ this is the molecular weight of PURE chloroform 

 


CHLOROFORM pure


Formula   CHCl3 
 
Molecular Weight   119.38
 
UN/Class Number   6.1/1888
 
Risk and safety phrase   R22,R38,R40,R48/20/22,S2,S36/37
 
CAS Number   67-66-3
 
EEC Number   200-6638
 
Melting point   -64°C
 

---

I may be wrong, but I believe I was once told that once that smell is in a car, it impregnates everything including the metal and there is no getting rid of it.

of course , since cindy and geo did their OWN investigating in the backyard... maybe it was BECAUSE of the dogs goin nuts back there...

Chloroform is a highly reactive solvent, and produces in its own container bad stuff like the deadly war gas phosgene.  It's impossible to have "pure" chloroform, but it is possible to have high concentrations as in Casey's trunk.   In the gas sample from that car there were many substances in addition to chloroform, mostly from the decomposition.

Good afternoon Monkey friends, I have been doing some searching today to determine how long Caylee could have been left in the back yard or sandbox. here is a interesting article of how long it takes for bugs to appear on human cadaver, and the process and time frame of decomp if her body were buried,whick makes me think she did not leave her back there very long before moving her to the trunk. (because ther would still be maggots and mites in the ground or sandbox up to July searches.  I do believe she left her in the trunk for several days before dumping or placing her in the woods. I still believe she placed her in something before disposing of her. ::MonkeyWaa::


NOT FOR A WEAK TUMMY!
http://www.scienceray.com/Forensic-Entomology.225303

Medicolegal entomology can be applied in many different forms.  It can be used to determine time and place of death, mode of death, whether the body was frozen or even wrapped after death.  Specific details such as larval weight, length, and succession are commonly used to narrow down the PMI, or rather Post Mortem Interval, which is the amount of time that has passed since death.  In homicide investigations this is crucial for determining when the individual died in order to track down the victims last moments of life, and last possible encounters.  It is also important to understand that the appearance of insects on a human body is not random.  Insect succession can be one of the best ways to determine a victims time of death.

 The first arrivals, blowflies, can appear within hours, and in some cases, minutes of death.   Blowflies lay their eggs in wounds, on the eyes and lips, and in openings such as the mouth and vagina.  Within eight to fourteen hours, depending on temperature, the eggs hatch, and maggots emerge.  After the maggots leave the body and burrow in the ground for another twelve days until they emerge as flies.  During a murder investigation, it is crucial to dig up earth around the body to detect burrowed maggots and flies in order to determine PMI.  Other insects that play a role in the decomposition of a body include:  houseflies that feed on the decaying flesh; beetles, which enjoy the rotting tissue and maggots themselves; also parasitic wasps, scuttle flies, and cheese skippers' help to break down tissues by feasting on left-over proteins.  After approximately six to twelve months, when there is no liquid matter left, mites will swarm the corpse, followed by hide-eating beetles.  Finally, clothes moths and spider beetles will consume any organic matter left.  Understanding the stages in which insects appear can assist in not only determining the time and cause of death, but its possible location as well.  Specific insects are inherent in different locations, and if those insects are present on the body, it can help to pinpoint the actual location of death.  When using forensic entomology in criminal investigations, it is also imperative that the proper method in handling such evidence is observed because vital information is often found inside the bodies of such insects.

very familair with CA beaches, have been to Laguna Beach and Newport Beach several times and a friend just moved to Del Mar.

Just want to mention... remember during the first bond hearing, (i believe it was), Cindy made a statement to the effect of, 'there is no evidence'.  When she said that, she was looking straight at Casey.  My take on that is she was assuring Casey that whatever evidence there had been, had been taken care of.  Am sure hoping that LE is paying attention to all these little bits of info which can really add up to quite a big picture.

Cindy told that story.... I believe in the Greta interview in the back yard..

oh yeah, that's a silence that speaks volumes! 

I'm a few pages behind here, but as for how fast it takes for a body to smell..  while it may start decomposing immediately, it doesn't necessarily smell immediately. 

I was in the room with my grandfather when he took his last breath... 82 yrs old, he was about 70 lbs, due to Emphysema. He was not a clean person anyway... somebody came to give him a sponge bath twice a week (and the only reason why he let somebody do that is because he liked talking to the guy).  His room smelled of urine, cigarette smoke, body odor, etc..  He was in his bed for maybe 2-3 hours before the mortuary came and picked him up.  I was in and out of his room a few times.. I never smelled anything out of the ordinary- either for him, or his room.  My husband and I (newlyweds at the time) moved into his room very shortly afterward- the only smells that stood out were cigarette smoke (even after cleaning the walls and several coats of paint) and urine from frequent spills of his urinal (even after having the carpets steam-cleaned many times, and the floor beneath painted with Killz paint). There was never any odor of decomp.

I suppose I should have also added..  but I'm not a dog.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I was working on the assumption that the dogs are very sensitive to the unique chemical changes that takes place upon death. If a cadaver dog can smell death underwater, their smell is going to be sensitive enough to smell the remains no matter how brief they were at a location. The smells would certainly not be detectable to humans which would explain why nobody smelled anything in the back yard.

MURT

Dogs love love love anything smelly and dead. Have you seen them run out to the yard and roll in it? They are also very sensitive on so many levels, I highly doubt Caylee was left for any length of time in the Anthony back yard. The dog would have gone nuts and alerted them to the area. It seems very plausible of the lifting and setting down of Caylee to open the trunk with her keys or prop open a door so she could move through the house easily.

I agree...

Yes. I think LE is doing an excellent job of investigating this case. They have lots of evidence that we know nothing about. I truly trust in this group of LE who have been working on this case.

We just have to be patient. It will all come out, I believe!

actually... it IS a PAIN when you keep tripping over the BAMBOO while you are TEXTING everybody on gods green earth...
but i STILL think she would have told GEO or LEE to cut the bamboo if she was tripping over it...

maybe she just wanted to dig up some bamboo to take WITH her to her new home...

oh..i forgot... she planned on DISPOSING of her family and moving INTO the house with amy...

my bad..

I agree with you Brandi.... but this monkey is so impatient sometimes. I cannot wait to see her put away for life.

i agree... my husband had to take a DEER to the dump because my shitzu/heeler mix kept going over there to ...uh..inVEStigate... and would come home smelling like (as my mother used to say) DEATH WARMED OVER..

nasty..

and EVEN after my hubby removed the dead deer.. the SMELL was HORRIFIC for a long time over there....

Could the smell of decomposition come from mearly contacting a dead body....like from an object, clothing, a container, shovel?

This would depend on how sensitive the dogs are at detecting odors that may have been there for some time. It is my understanding that the dogs have an extremely accute sense of smell and that the remains would not have to have been there that long. It may be possible that a body can be placed somewhere for, say 15 minutes or even less and leave an odor behind that would be detectable by a dog, for as much as a couple of months afterward.

This is an area where an expert is needed to clarify just how sensitive the dog's noses are and what the minimum amount a courpse would have to be placed for a smell to be detected by the dogs. The hits by the dogs in the yard seemed to have been borderline, ie: not good enough qualify as a hit that would point to Caylee definately being there but " an indication of a presense." The hit was so minimal that they were dismissed by LE and the area was cleared.

The car is another matter. The dogs hit on the trunk almost immediately and the smell of death, according to the detective who testified at the bond hearing" was obvious to those of who are familar with the smell of death."

MURT

Well, I hope it truly WAS an accident due to neglect AND that she gets life in prison because all I want to do is LAUGH in her face!

And that would be one big hearty howl!


She will never take the stand so she can't ever tell her "accident" story now.  Of course, I think she's told her own family it was an accident, but she can't in court.


And I still want her in prison for LIFE!

haahhahahhhha    hardy har har

something ELSE that made me go HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

odd how caseys voice changed a bit when she told the police officer.. i DO NOT KNOW where caylee is...


almost like she DIDNT know where she was......

but i dont for ONE minute believe she didnt know what ORIGINALLY happened to caylee...



just a thought..

I think the flags have to do with the kinds of evidence present and if an area is cleared or needed to be checked.

MURT

What? You actually think she would have a problem lying on the stand under oath? She would look you straight in the eye and tell you Zannie has her and never blink. Did you see the videos of her shopping and at the bank, cool as a cucumber. just like a pro. She would lie cheat and steal to protect HERSELF not to find her child.

Maybe it did and thats why she was moved, however it would take a desperate and crazy person to bury their own child in their parents back yard.
But then again with this story anything is possible.

I'd be right there with ya on this theory cuz it's exactly what I used to think.  That is, until we heard there was a fight between Cindy and Casey on the night of father's day.  Supposedly with Cindy's hands around Casey's neck, and all.  In that light, it seems (to me anyway) very likely that Caylee ended up dead in a fit of rage. 

From what we've come to know of that whole family, I can see Casey trying to get even with Cindy by doing away with who seems to have been more important to Cindy than Casey - Caylee. 

It might not have been a fit of rage because of their fight, it might not have been revenge, it might have been (as other monkeys have suggested) that Casey slammed out of the house in anger, Caylee kept crying for her gramma, and Casey snapped. 

I keep going back to Casey's words to Cindy, something to the effect of, 'mom, you don't know my involvement in this?' 

Am hoping LE is retracing the steps of both Cindy and George, as well as Lee's, following this past father's day. 

 

The car is another matter. The dogs hit on the trunk almost immediately and the smell of death, according to the detective who testified at the bond hearing" was obvious to those of who are familar with the smell of death."

MURT
[/quote]


Yeah, I think the baby was left to rot in that trunk for at least a week.

I hve to disagree, from all the research I've done on Elsevier and Science direct, there is pure chloroform~CHCl3 (Chloroform, pure); it has a definitively different chemical structure than by products.

wow goofed that quote up

Oh heck no!  But Joser Baez won't let her anywhere near the stand.

I think Casey has told her family it was an accident and has assured them she was properly buried, blah blah blah

And now they are in defense mode, not denial mode.

This is all a game for them now. 

I liked it.  Especially the hardy har har part.  LOL

without ANY evidence to show that casey was in SOME manner DEVASTATED at the time of caylee going missing... SOME evidence that she was DEVASTATED.... i cannot buy the ACCIDENT theory..


if by ACCIDENT my child was killed... there is NO way... no SHAPE ..no FORM that I could go on dancing and shopping and GIVING THAT S*IT EATING SMILE .....


naw.. t'warnt no accident..

no way

I'll tell you what, if she really did do this with premeditation (not a pool accident but dunked her under and held her) then she's the MOST +++++++ of murderers.

Because all she needed to do was make it LOOK like an accidental drowning!  Toss the kid in, leave for a few minutes....then scream and call 911!

voila!   a terrible tragedy and nothing more!

IMO the Anthony's are desperate and crazy!! I'm just sayin!! ::MonkeyWaa:: I love love LOVE your show Dana!! ::cartwheel::

i find it hard to believe that someone could shoot their own child to be able to clear the way to have time with a bf, but yet DIANE DOWNS made me a believer...

i find it hard to believe that a mother could coldly drown five of her babies... but ANDREA YATES made me a believer..

i DONT want to believe that casey could kill caylee...



i am waiting for the evidence and the trial to make me a believer...

that's because you aren't a sociopath...Casey is.

Its not the same for us.  She doesn't HAVE emotions...they just aren't there.  Its the gratification for here and now. 

I believe a jury will hold this against her, though....and I'm happy about that.  But as a psychology major I understand a bit more about what to expect and not expect from a sociopath.

I remember a segment of mythbusters where they placed a pig in a corvette to determine something that had to do with a dead body being in a car.

At the end of the test, they tried to get rid of the odor which was so bad, they had to wear enviromental suits when working around it. They were never able to get rid of the odor and wound up selling the car to a scrap yard.

MURT

shitzu/blue heeler mix, sorry I can't imagine that. I have a blue heeler and he can sniff out a chicken bone within 500 yards. I am new to this, so I hope I posted this correctly.

*hands kim a few more nanners*

not to worry, you'll get it!   ::MonkeyWink::

hmmmm welll i havent been DIAGNOSED as a sociopath... but the jury is still out..*L*

naw.. i realize she can smile and have fun even IF her daughter is dead by accident or by A DELIBERATE ACT, but what i DONT believe is that it  WAS an accident,,,,


the jury is still out on THAT as well..

[/quote]

---

I may be wrong, but I believe I was once told that once that smell is in a car, it impregnates everything including the metal and there is no getting rid of it.
[/quote]I remember a segment of mythbusters where they placed a pig in a corvette to determine something that had to do with a dead body being in a car.

At the end of the test, they tried to get rid of the odor which was so bad, they had to wear enviromental suits when working around it. They were never able to get rid of the odor and wound up selling the car to a scrap yard.

MURT
[/quote]

I recall a story quite similiar...a man actually died in his car and wasn't found for over two weeks.  The family couldn't GIVE the car away.  Spent a long time on its cleaning and ended up junking it, too. 

Darn MURT  they could have used a Pinto or somthing  besides a Vet ....  ::MonkeyWaa::

Lucky lucky lucky!  I lived in Oceanside for a year (was in the marine corps), just two blocks from the water.  loved it!!  loved the pier.... about halfway down it, there were steps leading down to a little platform that sits just above the water.  wonder if they are still there?  used to be my little getaway from it all.   ::MonkeyWink::

thanks for the vote of confidence! *L*....

keep the nanners tho, LOW CARB here... make MINE sugar free nanner syrup ;)

Welcome to the cage, joesamas mama!!! (You posted fine!)

And any other new monkeys!

I know I have posted this before, but it fits so perfectly with Casey it's truly amazing! She has EVERY point!

Profile of the Sociopath

    * Glibness and Superficial Charm

    * Manipulative and Conning
      They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

    * Grandiose Sense of Self
      Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

    * Pathological Lying
      Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

    * Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
      A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

    * Shallow Emotions
      When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

    * Incapacity for Love

    * Need for Stimulation
      Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

    * Callousness/Lack of Empathy
      Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

    * Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
      Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

    * Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
      Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

    * Irresponsibility/Unreliability
      Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

    * Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
      Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

    * Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
      Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

    * Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
      Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

When a killer says, I do not know where she is, the killer is telling the truth in a way.  If Casey put Caylee in a dumpster, she does not know for sure whether the body ended up in a landfill or an incinerator.  Or she might just be saying that she does not know where Caylee is NOW, as in, probably in Heaven but who knows for sure.  Liars can always justify the lie. 

I would gather that the gas chromatagraph and similar measuring instrument would be able to detect any of the above mentioned chemicals and separate the percentage of the content from the chloroform it'self. I am also wondering if the chemical make up of the gas that remained in the truck is affected by being in a hot trunk for several weeks or if it's atomic structure remains stable.

MURT

Amen, sister.

hmmmmm... i dunno... but it's a great question!  hope someone has an answer. 

Yes, and Casey has a habit of telling just a little truth in each lie, I believe.

Finding those truths is the difficult part.  LOL

amd that was one HUGE WASTE of a corvette..

sorry... i know... HUGE WASTE of that HUGE WASTE remark..:)


i want a TSHIRT that says HUGE WASTE... (please dont have the writing near MY waist tho...)

Good one - Hahahahahahahahahahaha

do you know -- are sociopaths born the way they are, or do they become that way from the way they are raised ?

Let me perhaps be a bit more clear on my thoughts of "accident".  I don't believe she planned this....not for any amount of time, let's say.  Because an "accidental drowning" is really quite easy to pull off, wouldn't you say?  Dunk the kid under the water then call 911.  Even a kindergartener could think that one up.

Now, even the scenario I painted I think requires jail time...neglect is neglect. 

If we find some evidence presented as "premeditation", won't necessarily mean that's exactly what it was....it could be the state attorneys 'cards', if you will.  They pressure her to plea out or something.

Here's the deal...the chick is so incredibly flawed and "wicked" in the eyes of all NON-sociopaths, I don't think there'd be any hesitation in convicting of her Murder 1.  Her attorney, if he's any dang good, will tell her this and recommend they look for pleading this one out.

yep,,, i ABSOLUTELY think that is the case...
whether she had someone ELSE do the disposal..or whether she realizes that NOW she doesnt know where her baby girl is.... i believe THAT is what she meant by " i dont KNOW where caylee is"

jr wrote:

think that the Prosecutor would have the Jury visit the car?  would the odor maintain the strength of putridness?

jr wrote:

would definitely think that would be the case if the part is fiberglass, don't understand if that is possible with metal, maybe staze knows?

imiss3rdgrade wrote:

it was written awhile ago that the dogs had a separate area that they were let out that they weren't allowed in the area Caylee played in.  also had been inferred that the dogs had not been seen at the Hopespring address, does anybody know?

heykim wrote:

I think many actions taken by GA & CA were taken to fool OCSO that they were co-operative.  Like washing the pinstriped pants & telling of this, to me means pants were never in car, like moving the playhouse to see if Caylee was buried in the backyard, like calling 911, the gas cans being reported stolen, there are more

Wkys wrote:

you are joined by others in your observation, another clue that there is complicity present in the family member murder lottery MOTIVE for reporting, CA is communicating with KC to keep her trap shut she will get her out & their plan can proceed

Here is the part about the cadaver dogs from Greta.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/08/15/cadaver-dogs-in-jailed-casey-anthonys-backyard/comment-page-2/

Does anyone know if TES is searching for Caylee today? Is it true that Tim Miller had a five hour meeting Friday with the Anthony's and their attorney? Thanks! ::MonkeyWink::

I believe they are predisposed to becoming one (in a genetic sense).  Also, her environment was extremely furtile ground for severe arrogance.  Have you ever studied 'brain elasticity'?

Look it up one night...its fascinating.  Casey's brain elasticity is already SET in stone, so to speak.  She won't ever change.  There is no cure, hence my wanting her in prison for life. 

just a random thought...

how much more blogging will it take about this case, before it is CASEY ANTHONYs name that comes up, when anyone punches the word WASTE into google...

Sorry Cubbee I quoted off your post by accident.

Someone was asking about the Cadaver dogs.

Here is the part about the cadaver dogs from Greta.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/08/15/cadaver-dogs-in-jailed-casey-anthonys-backyard/comment-page-2/

just guessing here but I have always believed that it is the gasses from the body that the cadaver dog is detecting, would be great if anybody knows

maybe caylee died somewhere else and casey attempted to bury her in her parents backyard to frame them for the death?  heck, i dunno.   ::MonkeyConfused::

Murt - It looks like your are hooked!!!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

This is my experience as a professional chemist.  I have worked extensively with chloroform and other solvents.  The solvent can produce bad stuff just sitting on the shelf.  It can also remain in relatively pure form, esp if a little ethanol added to stablize it.  I have put chloroform samples on the gas chromatograph to monitor the contents.  If too much other substances in it, I have had to redistill it and monitor again.  I am not making this up.

I have also opened virgin bottles to find lots of phosgene with its very charactistic odor.  Best to open unknown bottles in the hood so as to lessen phosgene (a war gas) exposure. 

Whenever something arrives at the lab, its purity must be checked.  Usually, to be useful, one does not want a lot of phosgene in the chloroform.  It's a natural breakdown product.  Most chemists purify their solvents before use if the purpose of the solvent will be altered by the presence of impurities.  The label on the bottle lists the confidence levels of various concentrations of impurities. 

To a chemist, purity is a relative term, as it has a variety of dimensions

What if everyone is looking down and she is up? Like what was mentioned the other night in the monkey cage about the movie that put the victim in a water tower? So KC is laughing and smirking about the ground being torn up or the lake being dragged or the dump being searched, when she knows she is in a place that can't be stumbled upon?

Not sure if they are searching, but I think the meeting on Friday for 5 hours was with NeJame only.  He had not met with the Anthony's yet.  Tim mentioned that NeJame was going to see if he could get the Anthony's to meet with Tim on Saturday.  I don't know if that happened.


But I did see a post, either here or other site, today saying George was standing out on street corners in the neighborhood handing out Caylee fliers.

Thank you Brandi for the welcome. I have tried to post before and it hasn't seemed to work.

welcome!  and gosh, that syrup sounds great!  *hungry for pancakes now*  mwahaha  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I am convinced Casey was planning on doing away with George and Cindy.  What I can't figure out is how she planned on hideing those bodies

Hey Monkeys!  I'm excited my account was finally approved  ::MonkeyDance:: 

I live in Orlando patiently waiting to search for baby Caylee. 

Welcome MonkeyBrains!  And thank you for searching!

hmmmmm i dunno,... maybe the CLOROFORM was for THEM... or a little itsy bitsy accident of a fire set... (oh dear dear... NOW i have to buy a NEW home to live in amy.... such a tragedy)   


hard to say... bet the officer FRIENDLYs have more info on OTHER searches on the puter casey might have had....;)

Welcome, MonkeyBrains!

Looking forward to your posts here.

ahhhh great question!  i've read recent discussions on this, because of so many high profile cases lately.  some psych docs say that there is a difference between a sociopath and a psychopath, that one is born that way and the other is influenced by the environment.  problem is, there has been argument as to which is which and if it's true or not. 

sorry, guess that wasn't very helpful.  lol   ::MonkeyConfused::

Welcome to the cage and God bless you and all the others who are willing to give up their time to go out in Lord knows what conditions and search.  If I was physically able I would be out there myself. 

Ok, I want to ask a really dumb question.  If Casey does follow novels for her plans, and that story had the body in a water tower on the top of an apartment, why are water towers on top of apartments and does Florida have those???

not trying to be disrespectful, and maye i shouldve read previous posts, but what is the point of that explanation?

I've never heard the words brain elasticity before - will look it up, thanks.  I also have trouble sorting out how you're not mentally ill if you're sociopathic or psychopathic, instead you're deemed just evil.  But it seems to me like not having a conscience or emotions would equal mental illness, I don't get where the line is drawn between the two. 

I do remember hearing a judge one time explain why the death penalty is really not a deterrent for murderers who are sociopaths or psychopaths/ without a conscience; they just don't fear it like the normal person would.

Welcome MonkeyBrains!

Welcome Joesamas Mama!

Sorry, I'm trying to get use to this.  Anyway, I wanted to add that there is talk going around town that Caylee was found at the GP's house in Mt. Dora.  This is the first "real life" rumor (as opposed to online) I've heard since the case broke.  I don't think it could be true---wouldn't be announced on tv???  Anyway, this person that I work with "claimed" to know someone close to the investigation.

she is most definitely a sociopath and her brain elasticity is set now.  She will never ever ever change. 

I'm gonna run off to the store and enjoy the afternoon sunshine.

See you monkeys later.  And remember, NO JUMPING ON THE BED!

I screwed up that quote.  The question was: Does her grandma's house have an attic?

What if Casey is laughing at searcher's doing all this wood,water searching and caylee is in the yard?

welcome new MONKEYS one and ALL!

Well, when the cat's away ....

Hurry back, 3rdGrade. I enjoy your posts!

 ::MonkeyHaHa::

We've heard that same rumor.  We have also been told by others "close" to the investigation this is not true.  I have no idea what to believe.

I can not say that there are any water towers on top of apartment buildings here in Florida, but we do have a lot of water towers, like town water towers.  I find the comment interesting, the one about looking up when we are looking down.  I do not give Casey much credit for being very crafty though.  She does not seem the type to want to get her hands dirty, but if it was someone else hiding the body (such as Lee) then that would make a little more sense.

Or is a water tower really like an old fashioned cooler???  And if so, how would you get a body in it?????

Just a stupid thought, but maybe she was planning to chloroform her parents, then burn the house. But then she/Lee would end up splitting insurance $$, so I guess that is a stupid thought because the house would be gone. Duh!

Whether they are born that way or were raised that way the end result is the same, they're EVIL, pure EVIL!

I don't think she was in the sandbox, and here's why - in the pictures of LE searching the back yard, you can see where they took the top of the sandbox, flipped it over, and put mulch in it.  If the sandbox were evidence, I don't think they would contaminate it with mulch.

My own opinion is that Caylee's body was placed in the trunk very soon after she died.  She was driving Tony's Jeep to Chris Stutz's house on the 17th.  I think she was avoiding her car because Caylee was in it.

After a couple of days, the odor forced Casey to deal with it, so she borrowed a shovel and tried to bury Caylee in the back yard.  The dogs hit on the spots where Caylee's body lay.  Since the task of burying her proved too difficult, Caylee went back into the trunk for several more days until Casey came up with a better solution.

I am with you on that Klaas.  I feel as if I am in an ongoing game of "Monkey in the Middle" with no end insight at the moment. 

Definitely the chloroform in Caseys hot trunk could have experienced decomposition.  My main suspicion is the photochemical reaction where chloroform decomposes to phosgene (a reactive substance in its own right) and hydrochloric acid.  The chloroform may have been completely shielded from the light, though, in which case the photoreaction would have less chance.  Any preexisting photobreakdown product like hydrochloric acid and phosgene can each react with fibers in the car, becuse each byproduct is reactive in its own right.

  Sometimes it doesn't take much light to start the photoreaction.  I myself have opened virgin dark brown glass bottles of chloroform only to smell the mess.  Certainly it is good lab practice to store solvents in the cold.  I myself used the coldroom for this purpose.

As a chemist I have not consulted general descriptive literature for chemical info.  There are trade journals and peer reviewed literature that cover that aspect of useful (at the time) info.  Also colleagues.

The decomposition starts very soon, but the odor doesn't begin right away. It takes several hours, I've heard at least 12, for that to be noticeable. Way back in the early 1900's, it was not a law that a body had to be embalmed, and many people had wakes in their homes with the dead body laid out in the casket, for as much as 2 days and nights before they were buried.
As for the hits in the backyard, I read something by a trainer who worked with cadaver dogs. She said that it might not have been the body itself that was in the yard, but something that was nearby the body in the trunk, long enough for the smell to permeate it, like an article of clothing, a blanket, or maybe the gas cans. She also said that if the body had been buried in the yard, the dogs would have gone crazy, rather than just giving an alert. But it could have been buried temporarily and moved very quickly. It made sense to me. Also, an interesting tidbit... she says that properly trained cadaver dogs can detect that odor through anything except metal.... plastic, wood, or fabric, for example.

I'm no chemist Murt so I dig around until I find something that correlates in some fashion to this case. I found this article about a train wreck in 1990 where chloroform was spilled and the concentration of chloroform in ambient air yrs later. Interesting:

BACKGROUND AND STATEMENT OF ISSUESIn October 1990, a CSX train derailed in Marshall County. 15,443 gallons of chloroform and3,660 gallons of styrene were spilled into a region underlain by a karst bedrock setting. Styreneis no longer a contaminant of concern. Data from 1998 indicates that dissolved chloroformconcentrations of 2,000 to 4,000 milligrams/liter (mg/L) are still present in the groundwater. The greater part of the dissolved chloroform discharges at Wilson Spring, which is a few feetfrom Big Rock Creek (Remedial Investigation Report, 1998).The discharge from Wilson Spring is collected and pumped to a carbon treatment system beforebeing discharged to Big Rock Creek. This current discharge point is approximately 100 feetdownstream of the original point of discharge [personal observation, 1998]. The spring area issurrounded by large rocks to form a small pond and is fenced. In 1998, CSX and its consultant,Ogden Environmental and Energy Services Company, Inc., requested permission to stop thecarbon treatment and, instead, channel the discharge from Wilson Spring to Big Rock Creek viaa system of rip rap or other method to increase volatilization of the chloroform from the water. IfCSX was allowed to stop the treatment, the rocks would be removed. This action wouldeliminate the pond and allow the spring water to flow directly to Big Rock Creek. The Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation (TDEC), Division of Superfund(DSF), previously asked the Tennessee Department of Health (TDH) if this proposal would posea threat to beef cattle drinking water from Big Rock Creek. After viewing the area, TDH drewthe following conclusions in a previous health consultation (which are not limited to the threat tobeef cattle): •The risk to humans is unknown from inhalation exposure to air in the vicinity of thepathway from Wilson Spring (untreated water) to Big Rock Creek.•The risk to humans should be the driving factor in this scenario. If humans, especiallychildren, are protected, then the cows should in all likelihood be protected, also.The recommendations in the previous health consultation were as follows: •Determine the potential concentration of chloroform in the air surrounding the pathwayfrom Wilson Spring to Big Rock Creek, if the spring water is no longer treated, butallowed to flow directly to the creek over rip rap or other method to increasevolatilization.•Determine the potential risk to humans, especially children, in the vicinity of the pathwaybetween Wilson Spring and Big Rock Creek [Public Health Consultation, 1998].The consultant for CSX Transportation, Inc., AMEC Earth & Environmental, Inc. (formerlyOgden Environmental and Energy Services Company, Inc.) prepared an addendum to theRemedial Investigation of 1998 in which they addressed the issues raised in the consultation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Page 5
Public Health Consultation – Update to Wilson Spring Site Page 2 of 8[Remedial Investigation Addendum, 2002]. DSF has now asked TDH to comment on the airsampling portion of the addendum.DISCUSSIONWilson Spring is located on a private farm. This spring is less than 1/4 mile from the Wilsonresidence. A cow path which leads to the creek is evident beside the fence around the spring. The walk from the house to the spring and then to the creek is very easy; therefore, WilsonSpring and Big Rock Creek are easily accessible to people, including children.Ambient Air SamplingOn April 23, 1999, AMEC sampled the ambient air at and near Wilson Spring and the rock-walled pond. Results are summarized in Table 1. More recent samples at Wilson Spring aresummarized in Table 2. Table 1Concentrations of Chloroform in Ambient Air as Measured by a Drager TubeWilson Spring Area, Lewisburg, Marshall County, TennesseeApril 23, 1999StationSample Height (feet) Concentration (mg/m3)A-15>1.3 1A-250.12A-350.045A-450.084A-55Not DetectedA-650.005A-75>0.73 1A-73>1.5 1A-73 (duplicate)>1.2 1A-73 (Summa canister) 25QCEquipment BlankNot Detected1possible tube saturation, results may be artificially low2sample collected with a Summa canister rather than with sorbent tubes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Page 6
Public Health Consultation – Update to Wilson Spring Site Page 3 of 8Stations A-1 through A-4 and A-7 are next to the pond; station A-1 is closest to the spring andstation A-7 is at the spring. Station A-5 is upwind of the spring (background); station A-6 isdownwind from the pond. Samples were taken with sorbent tubes, except at A-7 where a samplewas taken with a Summa canister because the chloroform concentrations exceeded thecalibration range of the sorbent tubes.Table 2Concentrations of Chloroform in Ambient AirWilson Spring, Lewisburg, Marshall County, TennesseeDate SampledConcentration (mg/m3)April 26, 20012.68June 1, 20012.61June 29, 20013.01July 31, 20014.26August 31, 20013.07September 27, 20012.78November 1, 20011.67November 30, 20011.41January 3, 20021.89The periodic air sampling data confirm that chloroform from Wilson Spring continues tovolatilize into the ambient air.The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) has published a unit riskfactor for excess cancer risk of 2.3x10-5per :g/m3(this is, also, the United States EnvironmentalProtection Agency slope factor) for a life time exposure to chloroform. It is unlikely that anyonewould spend a lifetime next to the spring. Children might spend a few hours several days a weekplaying in Big Rock Creek during warm weather. Access to the spring and collection pond iscontrolled. ATSDR also has published an acute minimum risk level (MRL) for chloroform of100 parts per billion (ppb). The concentrations at A-1 and A-7 vary between >1.2 mg/m3(>246ppb) to 5 mg/m3(1,024 ppb). However, the concentrations drop off quickly with distance fromthe spring, with concentrations ranging from 1 ppb to 25 ppb as one walks away from WilsonSpring and along the pond.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Page 7
Public Health Consultation – Update to Wilson Spring Site Page 4 of 8Remedial Investigation Report AddendumThe original report and the addendum, prepared by AMEC, are well written. The data ispresented clearly and interpreted appropriately. The consultant concluded that realistic cancerrisk scenarios did not indicate an unacceptable risk and that acute exposures did not represent ahazard, except in the immediate vicinity of the spring. As long as access is limited to the spring,there is no apparent risk. However, if the configuration of the spring discharge were changedand the fence was removed, a significant hazard could exist, especially to children playing at thespring. Chloroform was used as an anesthetic during surgery before its harmful effects were recognized.Breathing large amounts of chloroform and drinking liquids that contain large amounts ofchloroform can affect the central nervous system, liver, and kidneys of humans. People areexposed to low levels of chloroform every day in their drinking water and in the food they eat.Whether liver and kidney cancer could develop in people after long-term exposure to chloroformin drinking water is not known. Also, whether chloroform causes birth defects or harmfulreproductive effects in people is not known (ATSDR 1997b).ATSDR Child Health InitiativeIn 1996, ATSDR launched an initiative to place a special agency-wide emphasis onenvironmental hazards to children’s health and to emphasize child health in all agency programsand activities. The initiative was begun because of the special vulnerabilities children havewhen exposed to hazardous substances (ATSDR, 1997a; ATSDR 1998).Children are at greater risk than adults from certain kinds of exposure to hazardous substances atsites with environmental contamination. Children engage in activities such as playing outdoorsand in hand-to-mouth behaviors that increase their exposure to hazardous substances. Childrenare shorter than adults, which means they breathe dust, soil, and vapors close to the ground. Their lower body weight and higher intake rate results in a greater dose of hazardous substanceper unit of body weight. The developing body systems of children can sustain permanentdamage if toxic exposures are high enough during critical growth stages. Exposure pathways involving small children were evaluated during the development of thishealth consultation. In evaluating this data, careful attention was paid to ensure that the health ofsmall children was protected.CONCLUSIONSNo apparent public health hazard exists as long as control measures limit access. Thisconclusion is based on the following:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Page 8
Public Health Consultation – Update to Wilson Spring Site Page 5 of 8• At Wilson Spring, concentrations of chloroform in ambient air exceed the ATSDRacute MRL of 100 ppb.• A few feet away from Wilson Spring, the concentrations of chloroform drop quickly tolevels well below the ATSDR acute MRL.• Control measures limiting access to Wilson Spring mitigate the risk at the present time.RECOMMENDATIONSContinue to control access to Wilson Spring until remedial options that include methods ofeliminating potential exposure to chloroform vapors are decided upon.PUBLIC HEALTH ACTION PLANA copy of this health consultation will be provided to the property owner of the Wilson Farm. The Tennessee Department of Health is available to comment on future data as well as on theappropriateness and efficacy of future actions at this site. PREPARED BY:Bonnie BashorDirector, Environmental Health Studies and ServicesCommunicable and Environmental Health ServicesTennessee Department of Health
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Sorry, it's very long!!!! ::MonkeyEek::

Hey Klaas!  I work at Sun Pass and the rumor is going around there.  I'm sure it's just that, a rumor.  I think that LE would be chomping at the bit in reporting they found her.  I don't believe it.  It seems all these "sources" are coming out of the woodwork.

What is Sun Pass???

Thank you Klaasend. I'm not sure, but are you the person that can give me an avatar? I would like a picture of my dog if possible? Thank you so much and THANKS to ALL you monkeys!!

It's like E-Pass, EZ-Pass.  It's a device you put on your windshield and it's attached to your credit card so you can go through tolls without stopping.  There are 2 main companies in the area.  Sunpass and Epass.

Why don't you email me a photo of your dog and I'll fix it so you can use as your avatar:

smklaas@hotmail.com

Found this interesting posted on a the MyFoxOrlando blog.....

OtownNick  read my blog  view my photos
Oct 12, 2008 | 4:46 PM

More tid bits---

The TES guy that was with us (with the cadaver dog) said that George Anthony had been calling him a lot (as recently as last wek or 2) wanting to know where they are searching. This PROVES he knows Caylee is dead cause he knows TES is searching for REMAINS.

I know that Mark NeJame has talked to or has been meeting with Tim Miller with TES. Also, Tim's been tied up a LOT with LE for some hush hush reason and I heard some grumblings form my "source", but he was not allowed to divulge what all that is about. Somethings weird about Tim being her, but not organizing a search. Perhaps he IS here to be prepped to testify before the GJ??

I was assured by my source at TES that another search WILL be organized. I'm hoping next weekend. I think that TES and LE are spending a lot of time reviewing time lines, and matching up the cell tower pings to the search areas.

If TES searches next weekend, the small strike force will just join them. Otherwise, we will be searching again next Sunday, getting more areas to search form Tim Miller.

Weird....while reading the doc dump from last week Amy states that Casey dropped her at the airport at 18:40 hours(6:40 PM) on 7/8/08.Casey was at the first Target store,writing the first check at 11:59 AM on 7/8/08.
Amy states that all the money thefts occured between 18:40(7/8/08)to 13:45(7/15/08).....how could Casey be at Target's writing a forged check at 11:59 AM when Amy didn't leave for PR until 6:40 PM on 7/8/08?This info is in part 4 of the document dump.

http://www.local6.com/download/2008/1008/17656318.pdf

What's this with Yuri being taken off the case because of blogging?  Is that true??

Since Amy was going to let Casey use her car for the week she would be gone, maybe Casey asked to use it earlier that day to run a few errands.  It does sound like something that should be checked into and probably already has.

I know amy went in the am not pm..The police taking amy's statement made a comment about how early she left and her getting up that early to loan a friend a car and fill it up with gas for casey

Karma, I think there's a mistake somewhere. IIRC, Amy stated she left early in the morning for PR and only a good friend would drive her that early.

Good point!  I betcha that's when Amy "thought" Casey stole her checkbook.  It had to have been earlier.  If Amy keeps it in her glove box all it would take would be for both of them in the car and Amy running in the store, Casey opening the glove box, boom---gone!

What's this with Yuri being taken off the case because of blogging?  Is that true??
[/quote]

I post on WS as well and they had a thread for Yuri. I just checked and the tread is gone.

Yeah I remember that too I think it was like 6 or 7 am she left for the airport

It was 6:40 AM

Plus i remember le saying something about amy filling the car with gas that early in the morning...I guess either way amy would have paid for the gas...Casey would have just wrote a check

I post on WS as well and they had a thread for Yuri. I just checked and the tread is gone.
[/quote]

OMG!  That's crazy!!!! Man, I love YURI~~~~~~~~~~~ ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo::

http://crimsonshadows.net/content/view/168
here is a link to character and personality of KC.
Go way down to the end to the addendum. Interesting theory, that there was a " kidnapping " plan in the family ( I read Cindy & Casey ) that went bad. 

OMG!  That's crazy!!!! Man, I love YURI~~~~~~~~~~~ ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo::
[/quote]


It's still there.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71041

Where did you hear that, please do tell.  I read that entire thread & Yuri Melich did post in that thread but it was about personal stuff & that he did read message boards looking for clues but that was it, he NEVER made any statements about the case.  There were words of encouragement from posters directed at him but he didn't comment on them.  I hope that is just a dirty rumor cuz that would be ridiculous.

I used to read that thread for Yuri... he did not talk about the case, and refused to answer questions about it, so I don't think it is fair if he was taken off the case because of that. But he had to know it was risky. And I bet I know who did the complaining to his superiors!!!! CINDY!!!! She reads there too.

I post on WS as well and they had a thread for Yuri. I just checked and the tread is gone.
[/quote]



WASNT gone when i was there a moment ago...

but i didnt take it ... i swear... if its GONE i absoLUTEly did NOT take it!

yuri thread on ws:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2702777#post2702777

OOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Bad bad MONKEY LOL

It's still there.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71041
[/quote]

Yes but I do not believe he has been on it lately.

I read it off the myfoxorlando blog.  I also just read it on Websleuths. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72798&page=5

I post on WS as well and they had a thread for Yuri. I just checked and the tread is gone.
[/quote]

It's still there, they just moved the sticky threads:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=233

Hi Everyone!
I finally make it to the new cage only to find myself still 10 pages behind.    It's GOOD to see everyone. 

PJ :flower:

I hope so....it just looks like Amy either didn't know Casey was already into her account or she gave Casey permission to use her check book.

It started out as a support thread when he broke his leg, and just praising him along with all who worked on the case. He sounds like a generally nice guy. I get amused at the posters who claim to have a big crush on him.... I don't get it, he is just an ordinary guy... not particularly handsome, IMO. But... who knows? And he is not the only detective on the case, there are dozens, I am sure.
Anyway, he made it clear from the start that he would NOT talk or answer questions about the case, and he did not.

Must just be a(another)typo then.Thanks MrsRocko.

I think if the decomposition starts, anything it touches will have the death smell.
 Even the air .
 In a Motorcycle accident man got  beheaded.Very sad but I could smell him for weeks in the air.
I'm sure it was because it was hot outside.

I did a bit of reading last night at W/S, the thread regarding mental illness & if CA had any, am fascinated by the testimonials of people who have dealt with the personality disorders within their families & life experiences.  But anyway there was one poster who was posting outright misinformation, some truth but lots of complete fabrications, he was claiming to be a sociopath himself & I thought ok, now it was obvious a few weeks back that some posters were coming out of the woodwork as we've all seen before in these type of high profile cases, but man this one was off the hook.  Like KC tiny bits of fact & then LOADS OF CRAP.  Personally I think those type of posters should just be ignored cuz I do think it's a game to them where they are being rewarded with attention.

Just an observation thought I'd share.

I couldn't help myself. Ssshhh.. Don't tell!

Thanks MrsKub.....must be another typo.I hope all of these typos don't mess up the case against Caseface.

But Amy stated that all the money thefts occured after she left for PR at 6:40 PM while in Amy's statements given to LE she says she left early in the morning lol
I think it's a typo(but Amy herself wrote the 6:40 PM leave for PR in the documents)  ::MonkeyConfused::

OK get them monkeys of the bed so they don't hit there head!!!!!

That's what Amy said in her statements to LE but in the documents for the money thefts,Amy writes she left for PR at 18:40.18:40 is PM  ::MonkeyConfused::

LOL! ::MonkeyHaHa::

Yeah, there are errors in the documents. I have seen a lot.

I am sure Amy left for PR in the morning, though.

http://www.msnusers.com/CayleeMarieAnthonyCase/msgattachments/99

Here is Amy's written statement to LE and she worte 6:45 AM   when Casey dropped her at airport

Thank you Monkey Brains for providing the W/S link, I did read it & after it was relayed by one of the posters that moles were noted as being around & CA was probably starting some of the BS rumors that were sufacing recently, LOL.

CA is orchestrating this, the look in the bond hearing at KC while uttering on the stand "there is no evidence", the pass that some give this creature cuz she has a title of grandparent I will never understand other than to say that these nice people I hope never run into this type of creature cuz they will be preyed upon.

Thanks you all.It just really bugs me when things don't match up properly.  ::MonkeyCool::

I thought Cindy did her own posting in the "Caylee is alive thread?"  Some of those "theories" about Casey being framed by OCSD could have only come from her! ::MonkeyRoll::

Lisa

.......it was probably the blood / tissue on the ground that you could smell? Even after a washing down some remains behind.

OK, I have a question and forgive me if I have this wrong.
The GJ is to be on Tuesday, right? And the judge said he would get back to the 3 held motions by Monday right? And as of right now, Tim has not been able to resume the search?
And as far as we know, there has been no Body recovered thus far, so I am wondering what is going to happen tomorrow as far a the Judge's decision. I mean I am pretty confident he will tell her NO as to the "searching key points of interest" but I do not understand WHY he decided to wait until tomorrow?
I am so confused because if he some how knows they found something last time, he would have told her NO on Friday .

Forgive me for being so  ::MonkeyConfused:: about this. My allergies have been so wacked up with sinus pressure and all that good stuff, I can barely think straight.

evening monkeys - how is everyone

Evening Joy all the monkeys dissapeared lol

Hi Joyjoy, I'm new and get scared to post. How are you?

seems very quiet - never this quiet   ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo::

No, we didn't.

And greetings Monkeys!
 :smt039

Good evening Monkeys
It sure is quiet, can anyone tell me if my above questions are correct? TIM
psst. first post on this page  ::MonkeyWink::

hello joesamas welcome- I am fairly new and was hesitant at first - but everyone is very nice and welcomes all new members.  dont' be afraid.  I am good tonite - the mokeys are quiet tonite.  i wonder everyone is???

I post on WS as well and they had a thread for Yuri. I just checked and the tread is gone.
[/quote]

Curious, it's still there.  It's designated as a "stickie" so it doesn't get discarded.  Look at the top of the first page for the link.

 ::MonkeyDance:: Welcome new monkeys!

I have been woundering the same thing been here all day and been going from page to page maybe they had to grab something to eat!!

thank you for the welcome, I have been lurking since this all began. I just wish I could do something to help find Caylee.

i agree if they had found something ... he would have told her no.  i do not know why he decided to wait until tomorrow....

1.  Yes, GJ is Tuesday
2.  The judge said he'd have his answer on the last 3 requests BY Monday. My guess is Casey will NOT be allowed to search on her own.  I forget what the other 2 are.
3.  I really doubt anything at all will happen tomorrow
4.  Tuesday, the GJ could have their decision and Casey could be back in jail by Tuesday or Wednesday. 

I think we all feel the same frustration- I think it helps to come here and discuss with others.  I have been very emotional about baby Caylee- I can never get her off of my mind.  i tend to go over and over everything

back to jail would be great - she should not have her freedom - Caylee no longer has her life

klaassend- why so quiet tonite?  I have only been a monkey for  a short time but this seems unusual   ::MonkeyRoll::

Welcome all new Monkeys!

Lisa

OK, I have a question. What would Tim Miller be testifying before the Grand Jury about? He didn't know the Anthony's before hand and came in to search later on. I'm wondering this b/c could he be testifying about something he found?
I really have no idea about GJ testimony. If they are only going to have a "few" people testify and not the whole 85 plus roster, the better people would be her family and friends, not someone who organized a search.  Thoughts please?

::MonkeyEek::Florida only holds a grand jury for capital cases, any crime for which the maximum punishment is death.


WOW~i knew that a grand jury had to convene in a capital case, but according to Central Florida News 13, they ONLY convene for a capital case...interesting ::MonkeyConfused::

Sorry, the yellow color just does not look right!

Lisa

I guess this the calm before the storm.....  lisa, joesamas, deep, everyone still here??

I have a nephew a year older than her and it would kill me if something happened to him or his older brother. I don't understand Casey's mom taking up for her. It blows my mind. If my dog went missing I would totally freak, but I know where he is 24/7. If he isn't up my rear end, he is at doggy day care.

Thank you Klass and Joy, So I am hoping Strickland will post pone his decision past tomorrow, he never Promised Baez an answer by Monday, right.
Joy, I have been on the same emotional rollar coaster where Caylee is concerned. I care deeply about all missing children but I agree this case is SO different. Too bad the Monkeys cant be th e GJ, then she'd for sure be put away

hello boo - sleep well??  I agree the better people would be family and friends who knew her and caylee well and are part of the timeline

BooMonkey said:

Personally, I doubt Tim will be a witness for the Grand Jury.

I think most of the witnesses will be there to testify about forensic evidence that has been discovered in this case. Like chloroform, DNA .. etc.

That's just my opinion, though.

(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w74/sylvieann49/monkeyhello.jpg)

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: I know what you mean, I am a marketing person for an elite doggie day care and my boy (see avatar) is attached to my hip. I know that protesters sign pissed a lot of people off about how she wouldn't go a day w/o searching for her dog, but it hit home with me. I would be out until I dropped if my dog was gone. I helped search teams look for a little Boston Terrier that escaped from a pet shop in the middle of winter and lots of people showed up to search the woods to look for him. If it was my daughter, I would be screaming at the police, I would go down to the station for my polygraph before being asked and they would have to drug me to get me to sleep. I couldn't function and would be insane until I found her.   ::MonkeyConfused::

lol about your dog - i know what you mean my dog is the ssame way.  My daughter is  22 years old and her and my 2.5 year old grandson live with me.  I watch him all the time - I can't imagine living this nightmare.  i believe Cindy is in deep denial and to believe Casey is to believe their baby Caylee will be found alive- the alternative will be devastating

NFL football (go Cowboys!)

How did you know I took a nap? Unless you are overall talking about last night?! Man, I slept very well last night (this morning) lol. That was sooooo much fun to let loose and have no one censor us! I bet we left that cage a total mess!

This is a bit o/t but These cases really tug at my heart because a friend of mine from school age was abducted and murdered and it is still a unsolved crime here in FL. This happend in 1993, she would now be 28 if she were still with us. Atleast her body was found and given a burial BUT still no closure as to what happened to her and who did it and why, and that iswhat I am so afraid of with precious Caylee... Will we ever know the TRUTH?

here is a link to my friends page: Jennifer
http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/osi/Unsolved/odom.asp

I agree -she wouldn't stand a chance- i think anyone in their right mind will come to the same conclusion.  Baby caylee has touched my heart - I am kinda of obsessed

OK if he is NOT here to testify to the GJ that has been speculated and he is NOT going to do a major search for Caylee, why is he here? Surely not to hold the Anthony's hands and tell them it will be OK!

love the cowboys   ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

 ::MonkeyHaHa::  House stuff, husband stuff and now dinner stuff.  I'm here  ::MonkeyHaHa::

(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/skyler9969/respectthestarDallasCowboys.gif) ::MonkeyDance::

I worry about the same thing - not ever knowing- and if she is found not knowing what Casey did to her..... ::MonkeyNoNo::

::MonkeyNoNo:: lost in "Off Topic"

That was so much fun- I have not laughed that hard in a long time.  u r too funny- we tore that cage up last nite.   ::cartwheel:: ::cartwheel::

I believe he said he was there to check the area conditions and see if they were ok for resuming the search for Caylee. He also said, he was not happy with the conditions yet.

I also think he said he is there to do a search for Jennifer Keessee (spelling?) another missing person.

That's what I heard.

SOrry Wreck...Back on topic now ::MonkeyWink::

Ive heard of that team- where are they from???  Lawrence, Kansas????

Just thinking about Tim Miller's experience with missing person's family's & their interactions with him & TES I think would be quite eye opening in relation to this case.  I would be willing to BET that this is the FIRST TIME he has ever ENCOUNTERED DEMAND(S) for a SEARCH FOR ONLY AN ALIVE VICTIM, WHERE THE FAMILY OFFERRED NO SUPPORT FOR ACCOMODATIONS OR WILLINGNESS TO PARTICIPATE AT THE COMMAND CENTER, where the MOTHER of the missing person INTERACTED WITH HIM NOT AT ALL OTHER THAN TO SAY HELLO & it probably goes on from there.  Tim Miller has an incredible knowledge base in these area's sadly, even his own personal life experience of tragedy.

My guess is that there probably is not even one AVERAGE response that he encountered from this clan of ghouls.

Tim keeps saying that he is there to check conditions. I have never heard anything "officially" about him testifying, and unless they did find her I don't think he would.  But the Orlando Sentinel did quote him as saying they may look Sunday night or Monday. (This was late last night.) I will look to see if I can find the link.

 i am wondering the same thing- maybe he came to see if conditions were right and found they weren't and that is all there is to it...Maybe they are doing searching in areas that they can.....???

Edited for spelling Jennifer's name.

Come on Lurking MONKEYS, we see your name at the top of the thread, we know you are there. Give us your opinion!!!!

Was Caylee moved several times?

Is the slore Casey pregnant again?

Is she wearing the stolen push up bra under that tight shirt she wore the other day?

Does Cindy wear the pants in the family or George?

Does anyone else find it strange that the Anthony family's home has not been repossessed yet? Are these people still going to work everyday? Wear is the family dog? I've never seen a picture of the dog! What's his name? I want to see his vet records!!!   ::MonkeyHaHa::

Post da*m it!

I agree, Brandi. Unless Tim found evidence, I wouldn't think he would be called to testify before the grand jury. My guess (like yours) is that the grand jury will be presented with the test results from the FBI, body farm, etc.

All the prosecutors need to do is convince the grand jury that there is enough evidence to have a trial. That should be easy to do with the forensic evidence available. That's why I think they could get an indictment tomorrow.

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

My husband and I are not big football fans, but my dad has thoroughly indoctrinated my son as Cowboys fan.  He can't go anywhere without wearing his Romo jersery!

Lisa

NP.  Ya, that bond hearing testimony was something!~  I've never seen anyone like that in my life.  I'm sorry to admit that I don't have any compassion for CA.  I feel sociopathic towards her, LOL.

totally agree! 

 ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh:: ::MonkeyLaugh::  All very good questions Boomonkey

ONly one I think I can answer is Cindy wears the pants.... well atleast she thought she did until Slore came along.

The search for Jennifer I can understand, but to fly in to check weather conditions? Hmmmm, don't think so. Has he heard of a phone? Internet? Weather channel? He's got people here that could do that for him, it's too expensive to fly in to check weather conditions. There is more to this than meets the eye.

Meanwhile, Tim Miller, founder and director of Texas EquuSearch, said the group plans to resume searching areas near Orlando International Airport for Caylee, possibly by Sunday. Miller said he is concerned that recent rains might have saturated search areas but hopes to call for volunteers by Sunday.

While in Orlando, he and a group of experienced searchers also plan to look for Jennifer Kesse, the Orlando woman missing since January 2006.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey1108oct11,0,1967380.story (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey1108oct11,0,1967380.story)

The last information I had was that TES was going to concentrate on Jennifer Kesse this weekend and resume the search for Caylee next weekend.

MURT

i think it's Las Vegas!   ::MonkeyCool::

Well, for the love of God I hope she isn't pregnant.  That chick should have been sterilized after having Caylee!  And since she sleeps with anything that has a penis and does not use protection, I bet she has a few crotch critters.  I do think Casey is wearing everything from the Target Theft Collection (hat tip to a W/S poster).  Cindy IMO, definitely wears the pants in the family.  I think George fears Cindy.  I do find it strange that the house has not been foreclosed on, but I bet they are living off of donations.  And I had no idea they even had a dog!

Lisa

hope i did this right  ::MonkeyTongue:: ::MonkeyTongue::

And was Caylee moved several time?  Possibly once.

Lisa

Me too!  I can't stop thinking about her.  It doesn't help that I live right in the middle of all this.  Every time I go out I have to pass something that will remind me of baby Caylee.  I just got dinner with my boyfriend, while passing AMSCOT he pointed out the dumpster where KC parked her car.  Also traveling down university blvd passing AL's place.  All these landmarks around me, I will never get her out of my head until she's found.  Even just going outside my home to water my flowers, I think of Caylee.  It's such a creepy feeling she could be right near me--I could cry  ::MonkeyNoNo::

George is set up in the parking lot of an abandonded building on Goldenrod road. He hands out fliers and I think they are also selling/giving out Caylee t shirts.

MURT

Sorry Boo, I was trying to change the colors of my answers, and well uh... ::MonkeyConfused:: I guess I messed it up.

I wonder if they found bones or other evidence with Jennifer's DNA when they were here before.

The DA could want Tim to tell the Grand Jury that he did not get full cooperation from the family.  If what was said about them not providing items for the dogs to sniff before searching is true, that would be a tidbit the GJ should hear.

I think tomorrow will be the last day for passing out flyers!

i heave seen the dog in videos of Caylee - he does look like Toto

Will be very surprised if the Orlando Sentinel or one of the other local media outlets doesn't have a reporter covering the Court House Tuesday where the Grand Jury(s) convene to report who they SEE GOING INTO THE COURT HOUSE from this case.  The media outlets usually do that when they are covering a current story that involves the Grand Jury, will be disappointed if they don't.

I think way back when I read that the ghoul family had two dogs at Hopespring, but then it was said that they weren't there & haven't read of any sightings since.

Not "weather conditions." I said "area conditions." The ground was too wet to search without possibly harming any remains in some areas when he was there last. They said they would be back when the ground conditions were better.

I sure hope so Monken!  Praying hard We will hear something new soon

So Tim met with Najeme on Friday for three hours and received a donation from Never Lose Hope Foundation (the same Foundation that is paying for Najeme) to help search for Caylee. Has he ever talked with the Anthony's?

I'm so sorry about your friend, how sad.  ::MonkeyNoNo::

your doggy day care has marketers? Wow, mine should put me on the payroll.

Perhaps Casey 'pulled a Joran' and killed them  ::MonkeyCool::

::MonkeyNoNo::I am sorry also !
What is with our world ?
So many idiots floating arround, doing bad stuff ! ::MonkeyNoNo::

omg i can't imagine living there - i am far away but i feel i know caylee

LOL...OK, I'm coming out from 'lurking'....
1. Was Caylee moved several times? - IMO yes, first she was placed in backyard of her home until KC found and make the 'right' burial place. I believe it was the seond move as well for whatever reason (maybe KC decide that her first choice wasn't safe enough). It's hard to say without additional information. So, it's the pure speculation at this time;
2. Is the slore Casey pregnant again? - Who knows?:)...with her non-protected sextual activities - everything is possible....:);
3. Is she wearing the stolen push up bra under that tight shirt she wore the other day? - Who cares!!!!:)....
4. Does Cindy wear the pants in the family or George? - Absolutely!!! I couldn't imagine her in skirt:)...

::MonkeyDance::Urine did not do it !
His Mother said so !

I'm surprised it did not burn her!  Being that she IS evil.

Lisa

<a href="http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/cal58/?action=view&current=chucky.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h102/cal58/chucky.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Casey without the makeup....

I totally agree - she makes me sick - i can hardly stand to look at her - smiling- omg how can she smile...... ::MonkeyNoNo:: ::MonkeyNoNo::

The Slore's pants have a velcro flap ::MonkeyHaHa::

I lurk at W/S and they have members of the Casey Anthony fan club!  This guy takes the cake! ::MonkeyHaHa::


Dude!  Stop drinking the bong water! ::MonkeyConfused::

Lisa

lol

Heh!

Lisa

Message to the SLORE:

Well ya know what? At least George is doing SOMETHING! You gotta give the guy credit for beating this thing to death despite all the signs pointing to little Caylee being deceased. Where is Cindy? Has ANYONE seen her search? We all know KC never searched unless you count bar hopping as doing a search.

Murt,

Is George still taking donations at that Goldenrod location?  I still can imagine who would want to give them money!

Lisa

Thats the kinda psychos we live in the world with everyday- just think someone like that could be in the jury pool

yup i feel so sorry for George -  he probably feels so helpless- he loved that baby

I think George does it to get away from those two psychos!  George reminds me of the bumbling office clerk in that movie "Office Space".  Maybe George is socking away the donation money to start a new life in a tropical paradise! ::MonkeyHaHa::

Lisa

LOL, Lisa!!!  My gosh, is CA on WS again????  Where do people come up with these things?  Crazy, IMO!

that is horrible monkey deep, how sad.  I wonder if they still have the forensic evidence & if now that the technology has been improved upon whether that could lead to her murderer.  I know that my state when a high profile case was being covered a number of the cities/towns identified that they had tons of rape kits that had not been processed & one town raised $30,000 to have the 600 backed rape kits processed, that comes out to $50 a rape kit.  The citizens went crazy when they found out these tests were not being done in a timely manner allowing these criminals to reoffend due to not being identified.  I am so happy that there are now Cold Case Units growing in numbers through out the country due to the progress that forensic criminology has made in the last few years & sometimes interest in these cold cases takes hold of the investigator's & starts the ball rolling when time permits.

I have never been called to jury duty, although I think I would like to.
As far as people being pulled for jury, there are a lot of people who have not followed this case like we monkeys have. I try to talk to people I know and get their opion and they have no idea so all I have is monkeys in the cage  ::MonkeyCool::

I know they always ask if they know the suspect etc but do they make them take lie detector test to make sure they are in no way involved with her?

---

Cindy used to search from the back seat of a limo when the cameras were watching

KC never intended to search, she was to busy stealing and shopping, and who knows what else.  It is sickening to see her in Caylee T shirt, 

I posted this days ago but wanted repost-

There is no question that casey is a monster for whatever did or did not happen to caylee.  The sort of monster that no one could ever imagine-does exist. In regards to her baby Caylee there aren't words- whether she killed caylee or whether it was an accident ...her behavior after the fact is horrifying to say the least. I am not defending her in fact I wish her no peaceful moment for the rest of her life for what she has done.  But as for George and Cindy (and I am sure my opinion is not popular), I believe them to be victims.  I know, i know....

After watching video of Caylee's life - it is obvious that they loved that baby girl with all of their hearts- these were private moments never meant for the public viewing but we are voyeurs and what we see is LOVE.  They are guilty of not wanting to believe that their beautiful baby girl will never be back in their arms again, never seeing her smile, dance, celebrate another birthday.....  They want to believe Casey because to believe Casey means they have hope they will see their Caylee again.  My heart truly breaks for them.  In my opinion there is no conspiracy with Casey - only blind love and deep denial.  They will have to face something very soon that will change the rest of their days on this earth.  They will have to face the loss of their beautiful granddaughter and what they thought was their daughter (only a monster remains).  We will never know what it has been like for them these past four months.  I cry for them and for others who have to face the same heartbreak.  My prayers are with them and hopefully their misery of not knowing will end soon.   

Sorry after months and months, I just had to state my peace - hopefully i didn't offend anyone. I also think George is seeing the light....

thanks for listening

No.

HOPE THIS CLEARS UP SOME 4-LEGGED QUESTIONS

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(http://a582.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/21/l_0e92d092f29c867ca27aca06f49c2775.jpg)

I have the same problem Monkeydeep and to get someone caught up takes so freakin long I usually just say forget it.  ::MonkeyTongue::

It's a little yorkie!

My gosh,  is Cassie really that pigeon toed?  LOL

Was Caylee moved several times? I believed she was moved 2 times.

Is the slore Casey pregnant again?  IF she is I would be looking right at JB!! *puke*

Is she wearing the stolen push up bra under that tight shirt she wore the other day?  Yes, I'm sure she is right along with the sunglasses.

Does Cindy wear the pants in the family or George?  Cindy def. wears the pants!

Does anyone else find it strange that the Anthony family's home has not been repossessed yet? No, they are raking in donation money/blood money!! Are these people still going to work everyday?  I thought GA went back to work.   Wear is the family dog? I've never seen a picture of the dog! What's his name?  I don't have the link but there was a pic of their dog on Cindy's cellphone that LE got, it's on one of the sites somewhere.  Also, I saw the dog on the Greta interview.  Also, there was another interview with Cindy where she was laughing at the reporters (made me sick) and I heard the dog barking like crazy in the background. I want to see his vet records!!! LOL

Hi Muffybee!

(http://a159.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/95/l_e4539d8073be115b1deb09580345fff6.gif)

OMG! Is this guy for real???? The only thing I can say to people who support murders is sit down in a quiet room, close your eyes and picture Caylee. Picture her laughing, dancing, singing, smiling. Imagine her reaching up for a hug and her little body snuggling close to you for comfort. NOW picture KC doing something to that little girl. Picture her dumping her body somewhere and then going shopping. Picture that poor little body decaying somewhere and her mommy out dancing, partying, drinking and having sex. Close your eyes and see that smirk she had on her face in the court room.
Still support her? Come on! I can picture Mother Theresa screaming from the crowd with a rope to hang her from the closest tree!!!  ::MonkeyShocked::

(http://a98.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/34/l_4e4c6b4486f6206969a50e9c129bfc49.gif)

That is very kind of you to feel that way Joy but I'm waiting til after tuesday to decide whether or not I feel sorry for any of them. But that's just me.

Isnt the names to the dogs Tinker and Tilly??

I agree  - i was telling a good friend at work about this --- she only knew like nothing about this- after i told her - she just looked at me like i was some kinda of freak for obseessing and knowing as much as i do..... then she as most people felt bad for caylee and probably me for obsessing

Hey AZ!  Good to see you.  It will be interesting to see what the GJ comes up with, won't it? 

This poster says he is a cousin of Susan Smith. ::MonkeyEek::

Lisa

Thanks Dolce, I have never seen some of these pics before... what a precious angel. Make me  ::MonkeyWaa::

Hey Dolce can you make me a Avatar like that of Caylee pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?

Yes the two Yorkies are named Tinker and Tilly, as per George.

Yes, that would be coorect. You know a lot about a lot of things!!

poor poor baby- so sad  ::MonkeyWaa:: ::MonkeyWaa::

Oh man why do I no that???

 ::MonkeyWaa::

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::
there you are!!!

I would say ask Klaas to use the link from the post with the animated picture and impose it into your avi.

amen - well said boo

LOL, Lisa!!!  My gosh, is CA on WS again????  Where do people come up with these things?  Crazy, IMO!
[/quote]

This poster says he is a cousin of Susan Smith. ::MonkeyEek::

Lisa
[/quote]

Cousin of Susan Smith? Ha, that explains it!  CREEPY!

No water towers on apartments. Our water sources are either municipal water supplies or well water.  We do have vary large water towers operated by the cities but not the smaller water towers seen in other locations. The reason for the water towers on the roof of individual apartments was to gravity feed the water to the residents of the apartments.

MURT

I do feel bad for George I think he is going to heave a sigh of releif when Casey is arrested, I think this is killing him, I think he really loved that little girl, plus it's a way for hime to get out of that nut house, Cindy and Lee another story, they will be defensive till the end....I think the dog's name is Tilly or something like that.
Finally got caught up where it is a little quiet. don't like to post when I am way behind
LOL  I find myself laughing outloud at some of your posts, you guys are to funny!!

Dang it is so hard to see pics of Caylee! ::MonkeyWaa::  At two they really start to become their own little person.  It brings tears to my eyes!

Lisa

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(http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/2/l_0459c8019ff24bed83a53a94345b37d9.gif)

There are a lot of great shots of Caylee out there.  I hope they haunt Casey for the rest of her days.

TThank you Murt.

If they want a jury that has no contact with KC, you can bet your bippee that it will be an ALL WOMAN JURY!!!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

I agree.  I was glad to see that she wasn't wearing it the other day.  It's nothing but a big slap in the face to her daughter and an insult to the intelligence of LE and the general public.   She's not fooling anyone - except maybe herself, if she thinks anyone believes her b.s.

Is the source that has reported Lee's pregnant GF leaving him a reliable one, or do any of us know who the actual source is?

I wonder how things are between he and his parents now - I guess his absence speaks volumes about it.   They sure seem to be a house divided now.  From what we've seen lately, Lee's never around and George is staying out of the house a great deal.  I can't imagine how it is with just Cindy and Casey in that house.   I really do feel that Cindy is motivated by guilt more than anything in the whole cover-up effort.  I think she feels guilty for enabling Casey during her entire life and for putting her hands around her neck that night.   She knows she had a hand in helping to create The Perfect Storm.   

Remember how when the DNA results were first in, Cindy, Casey and Lee were all brought in together and given the results?  I still want to know why that was - did they fear that George would do something to Lee?   That was one of the bits of info that made me lean more toward someone other than Lee (like possibly George) being Caylee's father.  Any thoughts?

I don't even bring it up anymore because I don't know anyone around me that keeps up with it like I do. My husband gave up weeks ago trying to get me off the computer. Now he asks me all the time what's going on! I think he would secretly be "elated" if my computer went down though. But, it would probably cause me to have a nervous breakdown! I've been obsessed from the beginning!  ::MonkeyTongue::

I know it!!!  It makes me want to reach my hand through the picture and choke Casey up against the fence!!!  I will never understand WHY someone would or could do such a thing.

Every time I see pics of Caylee, I can't believe that such a beautiful, adorable child is gone.  ::MonkeyWaa:: ::MonkeyWaa:: ::MonkeyWaa:: ::MonkeyWaa::

Sweetie, did you get my email message????

I have a feeling that the Kool-Aid drinking fool posting that Casey and Jesse gave Caylee up for adoption is either an Anthony or some loon in need of attention.  (Actually, I guess the two overlap a bit, don't they?)  Interesting how he lumps Jesse's name in there and throws a little responsibility onto him.   Idiot.

Nope...to the nanner basket!!!!!!!!!

I was just reading on another site and learned two things I never knew before.  Someone said Amy has known Casey since she was 5 years old.  If that is true, wouldn't Amy know that Casey is a thief and can't be trusted?
They also said that Casey called Amy (not sure of the date) and asked Amy if she still had a storage unit?
Anyone know about these things?

I am really hoping there is a change of venue and my county is picked!!  Either way I will be there every day.  I just got fired from my job because of my obsession with this case.  Husbands aren't easy to work for!!  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Tim did know about the Anthony's before the case...when I talked with him on the phone about doing Dana's show...Tim told me that he was just waiting for a call from the Anthony's...and that even a good friend of his from ABC-TV had contacted the Anthony's about TES's services in missing person cases....still no call from the Anthony's....TES does not contact the families of missing persons...they only respond to requests from the families....I honestly and really believe...that it was social pressure that finally made the Anthony's contact TES...but then the stipulations that Cindy tried to put on Tim....for ONLY SEARCHING FOR A LIVE CAYLEE...started the rife between TES and the Anthony's...Cindy basically got very pissed at Tim...fired him...and it took LE taking over the roll of the *requesting* organization to keep TES on the job....this is what I've been told by several ppl in the loop....Des

Weird, i sent one to you and Wreck and someone else.  I have received no emails today????   What is wrong with my email?????

Kristin - let me know which one you want.  It needs to be resized like I resized this one:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/CayleeBookKristin.gif)

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub4/CayleeBookKristin.gif

According to the documents, Amy knew Casey for 6 months.

JoyJoy,
I tend to think that you are more right than most. I truly believe that the Anthony's were duped by Casey. But after the all the document dumps, they are having to come to terms with it, and it is really too much for them to handle. They are losing (especially Cindy) any composure they once had.

Earlier today I said:
There have been very few families who have been able to stand up to this kind of scrutiny without being decimated. Some of them come out on the other side to be our greatest heroes. There are laws and procedures named after their precious children and their memories are forever remembered. Just like Jessica's law and the Amber alert.

None of us really knows how we would handle the pressure, the media, the fear, the anger unless we have "walked a mile in their shoes." But what those families have that this one lacks is sincerity, grace, and honesty.

I truly think they just don't know how to handle it, and a soon to graduate PR person, and an attorney like Baez obviously aren't doing any good. Hopefully they trust NeJame, and Tim Millers several hour meeting with him will somehow change things.

I can't even imagine living in that house with Casey. Can you? Living with all of Caylee's toys, books, clothes, and knowing that everything that comes out of  Casey's mouth is a lie. Personally, she would have been going to court black and blue, and begging NOT to be let out on bond. "Please don't let me out, my momma is gonna beat me!"

I think in Lee's phone calls with her in jail you could hear the frustration, and although he didn't directly say it, you could tell that he knew she was lying at least about some of it.

So JoyJoy, don't think you are the only one out there who thinks like this. I just think we are so angry that we are having a hard time finding any compassion.

Thanx; I should of known not to wander into strange places.

Hi Murt - do you know if they have a search plan worked out for Jennifer?  For Caylee, they are following Casey's cell phone activity, but do they have much at all to go on for Jennifer?  Have they made any progress in identifying the person on the video?

Not certain about that one. It depends on the style of the house. I have not had a chance to pass by and see what the place looks like.

MURT

I think something may be up with Yahoo/Ymail.  It just kicked me off and I froze up then had to re-boot.  Nutzo!

I wasn't aware that Casey could get her knees that close together.  ::MonkeyHaHa::

Morning all.

I have to say this as it's been on my mind for a while....
Lee doesn't act like you would expect him to.
He has been playing amateur cop from the beginning...I don't know if this is to get the info before LE or not but it just seems odd.
Any sane individual would not believe what has been said by KC thus far...and yet he is protecting her.

If this were my sister I would not be acting/doing what he is....thoughts?

KC does not even deserve to be called a Mother.  I dont think she ever loved Caylee.  I dont think that she is even capable of real love.  KC has destroyed her entire family.  Their lives will never be happy, and all she can think about is saving herself.  I do kind of feel sorry for her mother and father, but they have created a lot of their own grief.  They are still enabling her instead of standing up to her..........She does not care about any of them, they just cant bring theirselves to believe that, because she is their daughter and they dont really want to believe it.  Reality will hit them hard, but the saddest thing is that Caylee is gone, and I do believe she was the happiest thing in their lives.  I dont know how they even can look at KC without thinking of little Caylee.  That would send me over the edge with her.  Caylee is with angels now, but her little body deserves to be found , and I have faith that will happen soon.  KC used being Caylee's mother as another tool to manipulate her Mother.

Keeps crotch crickets in place.

Her stance does not match her reputation that it for sure!  A-1 nanner!

Hey , there are 2 bad monkey avatars!!  I am so confused now!!  ::MonkeyConfused::