Natalee Case Discussion #698 11/30/2007

[cubbeegirl]

Yes, the FBI can still conduct an investigation but unfortunately they just can't do it in Aruba without permission being granted and we know that would never happen.

This is it as far as these perps being brought to justice.  Mos has just got to make it work.

.

I agree Anna.  Only problem is...based on this "new evidence" not being enough to hold the K2's any longer...I'd be willing to bet money the same thing will happen to Joran as well.  As much as that hurts to admit, I am now almost positive the person(s) responsible for Natalee's disappearance will go through this life at least not having to pay for their crimes...

Well, if this has all just been a Aruba blowing smoke, I for one think that it is blatantly cruel to do this to Natalee's family, at any time, but most especially during the holidays....

[Anna]

It is so hard to post on this site - it keeps telling me new replies and won't let my post go thru!!

Dop Kruimel says the Kalpoes weren't detained for manslaughter, but for disposing of the body and for destroying leads in this case. These derelicts don't justify the detaining of the brothers at this point.


THE CHARGE WAS DIFFERENT

Makes perfect sense to me.  They left Joran somewhere with an alive Natalee and get a call sometime later that she is deceased.  They go back to help or are in the middle of assisting in hiding the remains the night when Beth arrives.  No wonder Paulus was sweating.  Bet he knew all about it as well.

All is not lost by far!  In fact, it may just be another step in tightening the noose around the neck of Joran, figuratively only of course.

I hope Beth will meet with Mos and get the low down on it all.  I continue to think they have Joran dead to rights on this.

.

[klaasend]

It is so hard to post on this site - it keeps telling me new replies and won't let my post go thru!!

Dop Kruimel says the Kalpoes werent detained for manslaughter, but for disposing of the body and for destroying leads in this case. These delicts dont justify the detaining of the brothers at this point.


THE CHARGE WAS DIFFERENT

Canary - it was a setting in your profile, I just fixed it for you.  Should be better now.

[Helen Back]

Dana's show tonight should be a classic!

No doubt.  I'll be there!

[Dayhiker]

Lazlo RU



The dossier that now exsists about the two suspects, according to the judge would have severe suspicions against them, but would be to less to hold them any longer.
"Based on these facts, the pre arrest therefor is not allowed acc. to Dop Kruimel. "That was about destroying evidence of a crime, and hiding the body" On these charges is to less punishment to apply pre arrest.

That tells me a lot.
I think this the Dutch equivalent of "out on bail awaiting trial" on charges less severe than perhaps Joran.

Am looking forward to the complete wording on this ruling. It sounds damning in some ways. You're right Wreck, it does not appear they are off the hook.

[Dihannah1]

Lazlo RU



The dossier that now exsists about the two suspects, according to the judge would have severe suspicions against them, but would be to less to hold them any longer.
"Based on these facts, the pre arrest therefor is not allowed acc. to Dop Kruimel. "That was about destroying evidence of a crime, and hiding the body" On these charges is to less punishment to apply pre arrest.

I'm confused as to what this means....  I'm not comprehending, I guess..

[Tamikosmom]

I think was Lazlo is reporting is that hte evidence is only that K2 were not part of the original crime but of coverup and that has less punishment than voluntary manslaughter so they get out of jail because the crime sentence is less for what they did than what Joran did...if that makes any sense to anybody.  Pre trial detention is for more serious crimes with longer terms in jail

Flashback to when Deepak and Satish were released in July, 2005  from custody ... while Joran's detention was extended.  The Kalpoes were rearrest at the end of August, 2005 ... new facts and evidence.  Nevetheless ... when all is said and done ... less than a week later ... in September, 2005 ... Joran, Deepak and Satish were all released without restrictions ... evidence was not sufficient and ... justice for Natalee Holloway did not prevail.

Why is there such a wide gulf between the prosecution's definition of evidence and ... the judges' definition of evidence?

Janet

[klaasend]

[Port Valerie]

This is on the FoxNews site:

"The judge in the case told Van Susteren that supposed new and incriminating evidence presented by the prosecutor in the case "was neither new or incriminating," and that he was preparing to order the release of the brothers."

No way the judge spoke to Greta. Ridiculous.

[Anna]

Yes, the FBI can still conduct an investigation but unfortunately they just can't do it in Aruba without permission being granted and we know that would never happen.

This is it as far as these perps being brought to justice.  Mos has just got to make it work.

.

I agree Anna.  Only problem is...based on this "new evidence" not being enough to hold the K2's any longer...I'd be willing to bet money the same thing will happen to Joran as well.  As much as that hurts to admit, I am now almost positive the person(s) responsible for Natalee's disappearance will go through this life at least not having to pay for their crimes...

I don't have any money right now but OK, I'll just bet ya.  Joran is the one they are after in this as the one responsible for whatever happened to Natalee.  Drug dealers and body disposal are minor players.  It must have happened when Joran was alone with Natalee and the Kalpoes not present.

[wreck]

It is so hard to post on this site - it keeps telling me new replies and won't let my post go thru!!

Dop Kruimel says the Kalpoes weren't detained for manslaughter, but for disposing of the body and for destroying leads in this case. These derelicts don't justify the detaining of the brothers at this point.


THE CHARGE WAS DIFFERENT

Makes perfect sense to me.  They left Joran somewhere with an alive Natalee and get a call sometime later that she is deceased.  They go back to help or are in the middle of assisting in hiding the remains the night when Beth arrives.  No wonder Paulus was sweating.  Bet he knew all about it as well.

All is not lost by far!  In fact, it may just be another step in tightening the noose around the neck of Joran, figuratively only of course.

I hope Beth will meet with Mos and get the low down on it all.  I continue to think they have Joran dead to rights on this.

.

I think you're right on Anna!!   

[klaasend]

REMINDER

JOSSY WILL BE ON THE DANA PRETZER SHOW TONIGHT.  PLEASE POST ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE FOR JOSSY IN THIS THREAD AND I'LL FORWARD TO DANA PRIOR TO THE SHOW:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2404.0

[the big hammer]

Kalpoe Charges

Canary writes: "Dop Kruimel says the Kalpoes werent detained for manslaughter, but for disposing of the body and for destroying leads in this case..."

Really?

That's not what the original news reports said.

This is starting to have that old Aruban 3 card monte feeling.  Where nobody can report or recite actual facts about actual factual happenings.

But if this is true, then it is sloot alone who is held for involuntary manslaughter and the Kalpoe's were essentially acessories after the fact.  This might be bad news for sloot.

.

[nonesuche]

This is on the FoxNews site:

"The judge in the case told Van Susteren that supposed new and incriminating evidence presented by the prosecutor in the case "was neither new or incriminating," and that he was preparing to order the release of the brothers."

No way the judge spoke to Greta. Ridiculous.

I agree PV

I have to say that I don't like the idea of Beth being on Aruba or meeting with anyone without a bodyguard or JKelly at her side. Sorry, but I do not trust she is safe on that island. She's in my prayers for safety first, then heaven help her heart and what it's been through just today one more time.

[Anna]

REMINDER

JOSSY WILL BE ON THE DANA PRETZER SHOW TONIGHT.  PLEASE POST ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE FOR JOSSY IN THIS THREAD AND I'LL FORWARD TO DANA PRIOR TO THE SHOW:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2404.0

OK, Klaas,

Jossy said duct tape and Joe T so here he goes!

[klaasend]

Posted by Lazlo at RU:

From the AD:

Dossier
Het dossier dat nu over de twee verdachten bestaat, bevat volgens de rechter-commissaris ernstige verdenkingen tegen hen, maar zou te weinig om het lijf hebben om hen vast te houden.
,,Op basis van deze feiten is voorlopige hechtenis volgens hem niet toegelaten'', licht officier van justitie Dop Kruimel toe. ,,Daarbij ging het om het vernietigen van sporen van het misdrijf en het wegmaken van het lijk. Op deze delicten staat te weinig straf om voorarrest te mogen toepassen.''

The dossier that now exsists about the two suspects, according to the judge would have severe suspicions against them, but would be to less to hold them any longer.
"Based on these facts, the pre arrest therefor is not allowed acc. to Dop Kruimel. "That was about destroying evidence of a crime, and hiding the body" On these delicts there is to less punishment to be allowed to apply pre arrest.

Source: AD (link see other thread).

Sorry for typos, have to run!

http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/article1863776.ece?nscategory=topStoryA

[Buckeye]

Kalpoe Charges

Canary writes: "Dop Kruimel says the Kalpoes werent detained for manslaughter, but for disposing of the body and for destroying leads in this case..."

Really?

That's not what the original news reports said.

This is starting to have that old Aruban 3 card monte feeling.  Where nobody can report or recite actual facts about actual factual happenings.

But if this is true, then it is sloot alone who is held for involuntary manslaughter and the Kalpoe's were essentially acessories after the fact.  This might be bad news for sloot.

.

Hans Mos gave a graphic description of charge and I believe it is Voluntary Manslaughter.

[cubbeegirl]

Kalpoe Charges

Canary writes: "Dop Kruimel says the Kalpoes werent detained for manslaughter, but for disposing of the body and for destroying leads in this case..."

Really?

That's not what the original news reports said.

This is starting to have that old Aruban 3 card monte feeling.  Where nobody can report or recite actual facts about actual factual happenings.

But if this is true, then it is sloot alone who is held for involuntary manslaughter and the Kalpoe's were essentially acessories after the fact.  This might be bad news for sloot.

.

I hope it is bad news for ditch boy,,,

[truthseeker2]

This is on the FoxNews site:

"The judge in the case told Van Susteren that supposed new and incriminating evidence presented by the prosecutor in the case "was neither new or incriminating," and that he was preparing to order the release of the brothers."

No way the judge spoke to Greta. Ridiculous.

I agree PV

I have to say that I don't like the idea of Beth being on Aruba or meeting with anyone without a bodyguard or JKelly at her side. Sorry, but I do not trust she is safe on that island. She's in my prayers for safety first, then heaven help her heart and what it's been through just today one more time.

I agree.  I think Beth needs to leave that island right now.  Let the prosecutor communicate through JQK. 

[Anna]

Hammer,

No, not involuntary manslaughter but VOLUNTARY according to explicit details from Hans Mos in the Greta interview.

And he used graphic violent examples for this such as hitting a person on the head with an ax.

.