Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[AZLady]

Kyle said: “- I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head,

to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed.

Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items

The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

Kermit, the above bolded words seem to contradict Kyle's other postings that say only the Aruban's sampled the contents.  When Kyle says "we" he seems inclusive of the American searchers.  This is contradictory.

[AZLady]

So, the family saw the photos around the middle of March.  They've been aware of the trap's pictures and its contents since then. 

[Kermit]

private eye March 20, 2008
Kyle I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made,
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.440


Kyle said: I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

And from what I gather, the FBI did not receive a blue denim sample to test.  They received a sample of a fabric similar to Natalee's blouse, correct?

Correct, and reportedly it took Richardson a long time to send the fabric to Quantico for analysis.  I'm sorry, I don't have a link to give you for that.

Yes it was a sample and then MOS read from the FBI report, if memory serves me verbatim. Which did not say anything about the other things retrieved from the cage by Aruba divers nor the denim looking material.

[Anna]

So what experts said the remains WERE Natalee since the FBI said no match on the fabric?

[SS]

Kermit - I have understood that you gave the photographs of the cage contents to Beth, after Kyle chose not to.  Obviously you have had discussions about the cage contents with Beth and/or the other H/Ts.  Why is Jug so certain that the remains in the cage were not Natalee.  Did they have froensic evaluations done on anything from the cage?

[AZLady]

So, Natalee's body may have been found in that cage and identified last spring.  However, if so, the family has not announced this for their own reasons.  Perhaps they are convinced that by exposing this coverup, justice will be broader and better served.  Does this seem likely?

[Tamikosmom]

I just replaced color, and that really does look like a skull and shoe, to me anyway.

CBB ... you are amazing!

In the name of justice for Natalee Holloway ... ALL ROV images that escaped destruction at the hands of the ALE should have been immediately turned over to the FBI experts to determine what were the contents of that cage.

However ... it is not too late.

Janet

No, it's not too late.  As long as images exist from that exploration, they can be analyzed.

I pray that Kyle has had another change of heart and ... has done what he inititially intended to do ... share ALL the ROV images with the FBI and Natalee Holloway's family ... share all his observations and concerns while he was a crew member of the Persistence with the FBI and Natalee Holloway's family.

It should be all about justice for Natalee Holloway.  It is all about closure for Natalee Holloways family.  Nothing else!

Janet

[AZLady]

By allowing the Arubans to coverup the discovery of Natalee's body in the cage, the net is drawn even tighter around the current and present administration in Aruba, including Han Mos and Richardson and others who were not present at the beginning of the coverup but have perpetuated it to this day.  I'm beginning to see the light, I think.

[Anna]

From Fox News Big Story October 9th, 2005 comes a rather disturbing revelation that should make everyone sit up, take notice and scratch their collective heads. There has been much debate by many as to whether Beth Twitty had been telling the truth or embellishing it as per her statement, “Forensics were never done at the primary residence of the Van der Sloot home“. Many questioned her motives as to this statement and wondered how this could be when the main stream media had reported that items were seized from the home.....

Now last night some four and a half months later after the disappearance of Natalee Holloway we learn from Deputy Police Chief, Dompig, in Aruba in charge of the investigation, that the Van der Sloot home was never searched. The primary home of the suspect, Joran Van der Sloot was never searched. Even after Paul Van der Sloot was arrested as a suspect the home was not searched.
    Reporter: Okay, let me ask you about the search of Joran Van der Sloot house. Apparently this kid lived in an apartment that was connected to or sort of adjacent to his parents house.

    Dompig: That is correct

    Reporter: And the police only searched his apartment, deputy chief?

    Dompig: That is correct. The fact is that we as a law enforcement agency always try to get the maximum. Meaning that we want to search as much places as possible. We were not granted by the judge a search warrant for the complete house, we only received the warrant for the apartment.

    Reporter: But what about after Paul Van der Sloot was arrested, couldn’t you get a warrant to search the house then?

    Dompig: It was also denied, we were a bit disappointed with that. The judge was coming from another island I must point out. He said we didn’t make a good enough case to get a warrant....

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/10/10/beth-twitty-credibility-1-nay-sayers-0/

Then this:

Translation - posted by Lazlo at RU
December 29, 2007

Bob Wit defends himself in Bon Dia

<snipped>

Mr Wit, had to decide in an instant about the search of where Joran's father lived, and made the decision to allow the search of the apartment of Joran van der Sloot and also in the two cars of the family.

At no moment they had (asked?) to search more then that. A Head Commisar cannot do otherwise, because the petition has to be substantial. Another word is by having allowed to search at other places that were not covered by the petition of the OM all evidence eventually obtained would be illegal. This is very significant since dealing with the case ourselves we had to work in a correct manner, Mr Wit says.


Hmmm....somebody's lying....and it's not Beth.

[Kermit]

So, the family saw the photos around the middle of March.  They've been aware of the trap's pictures and its contents since then. 

I am aware that PI saw the photos.
I am aware that Beth & Dave have the photos.
I am aware that the fbi has the photos.

[Blonde]

Kermit, If you are still here, who said the remains or DNA was Natalee?  I understand the FBI said the fabric they received was not her blouse but who said the remains were her?

And worse yet, I thought they compared the denim to her blouse and said THAT was not a match.

I have a headache from this!

I know it is confusing.

I just posted the photo that was done by Kyle with measurements and his expertise in underwater ROV videos who took the screenshot and also did the overlay of the photo from Natalee on the beach. It matches where the denim skirt was found. In his own words.

The material sent to the fbi was sent by Aruba. It did not match. NOTHING was ever said about the blue denim material to my knowledge being tested.

Well of course it didn't match. The material sent to the FBI was sent by Aruba.
They sent them something else.

[Kermit]

I just replaced color, and that really does look like a skull and shoe, to me anyway.

CBB ... you are amazing!

In the name of justice for Natalee Holloway ... ALL ROV images that escaped destruction at the hands of the ALE should have been immediately turned over to the FBI experts to determine what were the contents of that cage.

However ... it is not too late.

Janet

No, it's not too late.  As long as images exist from that exploration, they can be analyzed.

I pray that Kyle has had another change of heart and ... has done what he inititially intended to do ... share ALL the ROV images with the FBI and Natalee Holloway's family ... share all his observations and concerns while he was a crew member of the Persistence with the FBI and Natalee Holloway's family.

It should be all about justice for Natalee Holloway.  It is all about closure for Natalee Holloways family.  Nothing else!

Janet

He did not have a change of heart and has continued to threaten me for posting at SM.

[Kermit]

Kermit, If you are still here, who said the remains or DNA was Natalee?  I understand the FBI said the fabric they received was not her blouse but who said the remains were her?

And worse yet, I thought they compared the denim to her blouse and said THAT was not a match.

I have a headache from this!

I know it is confusing.

I just posted the photo that was done by Kyle with measurements and his expertise in underwater ROV videos who took the screenshot and also did the overlay of the photo from Natalee on the beach. It matches where the denim skirt was found. In his own words.

The material sent to the fbi was sent by Aruba. It did not match. NOTHING was ever said about the blue denim material to my knowledge being tested.

Well of course it didn't match. The material sent to the FBI was sent by Aruba.
They sent them something else.

That is what I think too Blonde.

[BTgirl]

Kermit, If you are still here, who said the remains or DNA was Natalee?  I understand the FBI said the fabric they received was not her blouse but who said the remains were her?

And worse yet, I thought they compared the denim to her blouse and said THAT was not a match.

I have a headache from this!

I know it is confusing.

I just posted the photo that was done by Kyle with measurements and his expertise in underwater ROV videos who took the screenshot and also did the overlay of the photo from Natalee on the beach. It matches where the denim skirt was found. In his own words.

The material sent to the fbi was sent by Aruba. It did not match. NOTHING was ever said about the blue denim material to my knowledge being tested.

Well of course it didn't match. The material sent to the FBI was sent by Aruba.
They sent them something else.

Having fabric NOT be matching fabric would be easy for a place that can magically turn blood into chocolate. 

[Anna]

For the record:

----- Original Message -----
From:
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:24 PM
Subject: Cloth found in crab trap not a match with sample of blouse Holloway, according to FBI Laboratory.


Press release

Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba
Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba

To All media
From The Public Prosecutor's Office
Date February 26, 2007

Pages 1

Cloth found in crab trap not a match with sample of blouse Holloway, according to FBI Laboratory.

The Prosecutors' Office of Aruba has received the results of the comparison tests done by the FBI Laboratory in the United States of America on clothing, cloth or a textile of some type recovered in January 2008 by an Aruban dive team inside a crab trap in about 90 feet of water, off the coast of Aruba. The Aruban dive team was directed to the crab trap by the crew of the vessel "Persistence" that is conducting a sea search looking for the body of Natalee Holloway. The Persistence is searching for a crab trap based on the story that the body of Natalee Holloway was disposed of and placed in a similar device.

The Aruban Police requested the FBI Laboratory to process the cloth, because the Laboratory already had a sample of the exact match of the type of material of Natalee Holloway's blouse. The FBI Laboratory received that material on the 22nd of January 2008.

On the 25th of February 2008, the Prosecutors' Office received the official report from the FBI Laboratory that showed that the two materials were not a match.


FBI Says Fabrics Found in Aruban Crab Trap Not From Holloway
Tuesday, February 26, 2008

ORANJESTAD, Aruba - An FBI analysis of fabric collected from a crab trap off Aruba showed the material did not match clothing worn by missing American Natalee Holloway, prosecutors said Tuesday.

The fabric was recovered in January by divers in about 90 feet of water as they searched for the body of the missing woman, the Aruban public prosecutor's office said in a statement.

Click here for photos from the case.

The FBI compared the material to a blouse worn by Holloway, who was 18 when she disappeared on the final night of a high school graduation trip to the Dutch Caribbean island in May 2005. The results "showed that the two materials were not a match," the statement said.

Special Agent Ann Todd, a spokeswoman for the FBI Laboratory in Quantico, Va., said the lab could not comment on the case.

Holloway, of Mountain Brook, Ala., was last seen leaving a bar in the Aruban capital of Oranjestad with a Dutch college student and two Surinamese brothers. Extensive searches have found no trace of her.

Earlier this month, judges rejected an attempt to arrest the Dutch student, Joran Van der Sloot, for a third time in her disappearance. He was released due to insufficient evidence the first two times he was arrested.

Aruban prosecutors had sought to detain him based on hidden-camera recordings captured by a Dutch TV crime show. In the video, Van der Sloot said Holloway collapsed on the beach after they left the bar and he called a friend to dump her body at sea.

Van der Sloot has said he was lying when he made those statement and insists he had no involvement in her death.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332848,00.html


Fabric found in Aruban crab trap doesn't match Holloway's clothing
Posted by Birmingham News February 26, 2008 3:26 PM

Fabric found in a crab trap off the Aruban coast doesn't match a blouse worn by Natalee Holloway when she disappeared, officials said today.

The fabric was recovered by a dive crew last month and tested by the FBI, which was holding fabric samples matching Holloway's top, according to a release from the Aruban prosecutor's office.

Holloway, then 18, disappeared in May of 2005

[Kermit]

Kermit - I have understood that you gave the photographs of the cage contents to Beth, after Kyle chose not to.  Obviously you have had discussions about the cage contents with Beth and/or the other H/Ts.  Why is Jug so certain that the remains in the cage were not Natalee.  Did they have froensic evaluations done on anything from the cage?

I can only assume because I am not privy to the conversation Jug is having with Idstlou.
I think he is only getting the information that she tells him and I can tell from her posts that she is either confused it on purpose or actually is confused or she might be wanting everyone to focus on anything but that cage. I don't know. I'm just telling the truth of what I know to be.

To me, the photos speak for themselves. How many skeletons in a fish trap fit the measurements of someone missing and a blue denim material found and blue tarp etc.

[Kermit]

Kermit, If you are still here, who said the remains or DNA was Natalee?  I understand the FBI said the fabric they received was not her blouse but who said the remains were her?

And worse yet, I thought they compared the denim to her blouse and said THAT was not a match.

I have a headache from this!

I know it is confusing.

I just posted the photo that was done by Kyle with measurements and his expertise in underwater ROV videos who took the screenshot and also did the overlay of the photo from Natalee on the beach. It matches where the denim skirt was found. In his own words.

The material sent to the fbi was sent by Aruba. It did not match. NOTHING was ever said about the blue denim material to my knowledge being tested.

Well of course it didn't match. The material sent to the FBI was sent by Aruba.
They sent them something else.

Having fabric NOT be matching fabric would be easy for a place that can magically turn blood into chocolate. 

I was thinking that would be a great title: Aruba turned blood into chocolate.

[Tamikosmom]

private eye March 20, 2008
Kyle I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made,
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.440


Kyle said: I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

And from what I gather, the FBI did not receive a blue denim sample to test.  They received a sample of a fabric similar to Natalee's blouse, correct?

Correct, and reportedly it took Richardson a long time to send the fabric to Quantico for analysis.  I'm sorry, I don't have a link to give you for that.

Obviously ... the ALE did not send the FBI any "denim" to analyze!!  For the purpose of comparing ... it is so important that the FBI must have ALL the ROV images that Kyle can provide.

Janet

++++++++++

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #635 on: November 25, 2008, 10:06:58 PM »

from Kyle: "It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557906;topicseen#msg557906


Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba
Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba

To All media
From The Public Prosecutor’s Office
Date February 26, 2008

Pages 1

The Aruban Police requested the FBI Laboratory to process the cloth, because the Laboratory already had a sample of the exact match of the type of material of Natalee Holloway’s blouse. The FBI Laboratory received that material on the 22nd of January 2008.

On the 25th of February 2008, the Prosecutors’ Office received the official report from the FBI Laboratory that showed that the two materials were not a match.

[Keepthefaith]

I just replaced color, and that really does look like a skull and shoe, to me anyway.

CBB ... you are amazing!

In the name of justice for Natalee Holloway ... ALL ROV images that escaped destruction at the hands of the ALE should have been immediately turned over to the FBI experts to determine what were the contents of that cage.

However ... it is not too late.

Janet

No, it's not too late.  As long as images exist from that exploration, they can be analyzed.

I pray that Kyle has had another change of heart and ... has done what he inititially intended to do ... share ALL the ROV images with the FBI and Natalee Holloway's family ... share all his observations and concerns while he was a crew member of the Persistence with the FBI and Natalee Holloway's family.

It should be all about justice for Natalee Holloway.  It is all about closure for Natalee Holloways family.  Nothing else!

Janet

He did not have a change of heart and has continued to threaten me for posting at SM.

Are the authorities,as well as the families aware of the these threats??

[Edward]

One thought I have on this gal Jalitza
Is the Holiday Inn video showing a gal who looked like Natalee. Beth took a look at the video and discounted it as NOT Natalee..
Was it actually Jalitza on that video ?
Part of an early plan to deceive and then eliminated..
Just a thought.

Edward, I believe the video Beth said was not Natalee was taken in a jewelry store (maybe in a hotel lobby, if I recall).  The video in the Holiday Inn casino of Natalee at the Blackjack table was identified as Natalee, as were videos of her walking into the casino.  Now, which video are you referencing?

The hotel lobby is the video I am referring to. thank you

The way I remember it, Beth said that was NOT Natalee in the Hotel lobby Video.

We all agree on that.. What I am wondering is if this is Jalitza in that video.