Natalee Case Discussion #693 11/25 - 11/26/2007

[Helen Back]

Morning monkeys!

Great front-page article SM and thanks to EURobert for continuing contributions. 

Where's Paulus?  Has he been dragged in yet?  There's the heart of the story......with Paulus.
I hope he's being monitored if he's not in custody yet.  Bet the media will keep tabs on him for us.

In addition to the admission that Joran had drugged and raped a girlfriend, and that these guys have a routine of drugging and gang-raping tourists, I thought this portion of front page article was veeeeeeery interesting to see in print:

Gaps

Although earlier it was already clear that the investigation especially in the period shortly after the disappearance had big gaps in it, the new police team also encountered many shortcomings in the initial investigation. “For example, on key points there wasn’t pressed enough for their answers or reports of phonetaps were not fully written down. For instance: on a particular conversation in the transcript was put “it is not relevant”, and therefore not literally written down. Now we have listened to a number of interviews again, we see - in combination with the new research - indeed new suspicions rise up, “says a Dutch detective.

Finally, an admission that the three were never asked any difficult or follow-up questions in their previous "interrogations".  The statements were not accurately recorded in the PV's (lame ass "summaries" they were).  Information from the questioning was not written down or otherwise mentioned because someone made the executive decision that it was not relevant.

Is this how you spell cover-up and Dennis Jacobs.  Thanks to the great work by Natalee's Freebirds, we know that most of the key PV's were taken and recorded by DENNIS JACOBS.

[oldfart]

Good Day Monkeys 

It has been busy here.
This quote from the FP 

Yes, it is true that at this moment we have not yet decided whether we take Joran and the brothers K. to court. This depends partly on what they the coming days will declare on the contradictions. And what if they remain silent? “That would, in this case, not be in their own interest!”

Just does not make since to me..  ???
Not be in whos interest... J2k's.... What would LE do to them if they do not talk ?

i think what he is saying is

the EVIEDENCE is overwhelming, if k2 and joran want to continue to deny, GO AHEAD
but the judge in the trial will see it and the end result will be the same

they are going to jail

they can make it easy on all other people such as parents and friends or they can make if difficult

their choice

the end result is the same

 

Robots
Hope you are correct... but I don't think so... Otherwise why not say we are planning on thaking them to court?  vs "we have not yet decided " ?

[robots]

i guess the reason the people are so happy on the island is because if 80 percent of them are doing CRANK or CRACK they would be happy until the dealer runs out
then they become depressed because they have to switch to ALCOHOL


i can see why they are UNHAPPY at times

[robots]

Good Day Monkeys 

It has been busy here.
This quote from the FP 

Yes, it is true that at this moment we have not yet decided whether we take Joran and the brothers K. to court. This depends partly on what they the coming days will declare on the contradictions. And what if they remain silent? “That would, in this case, not be in their own interest!”

Just does not make since to me..  ???
Not be in whos interest... J2k's.... What would LE do to them if they do not talk ?

i think what he is saying is

the EVIEDENCE is overwhelming, if k2 and joran want to continue to deny, GO AHEAD
but the judge in the trial will see it and the end result will be the same

they are going to jail

they can make it easy on all other people such as parents and friends or they can make if difficult

their choice

the end result is the same

 

Robots
Hope you are correct... but I don't think so... Otherwise why not say we are planning on thaking them to court?  vs "we have not yet decided " ?

good question, my guess is they are hoping the admissions come soon

then no need for trial 

if they want a trial - LETS GO

[blah]

I was thinking last night - is this all just some big game to save Aruba and the Kalpoe's some embarrassment in the Dr Phil case?  I havent really been following whats going on in that case but last I remember, the judge was pressing the Kalpoes to turn over a bunch of documents and they were refusing.  Could this all just be some way to get out of the Dr Phil thing without having to disclose anything damaging to the island?

[klaasend]

Someone really needs to tell Jenna aka Resorttownmom at RU to give it up already.

Is she the one who was on this forum for awhile? Now I can't remember what theory she was pushing LOL!

Yes with the nickname Resorttownmom.  Her theory has always been runaway. She's still at it at RU under the name of Jenna.

[crazybabyborg]

Hiya, Blah! Good to see you!

It's my understanding that Joran has not been able to see either parent, that the suspects are being kept totally separated from each other, K2 isn't allowed to have the same attorney and that their attorneys were not allowed to go to court with them. Also, the chief prospecutor did not give all the content of the gathered evidence to any one of the 3 suspects, in a strategy to withold info that could be supplied by one in regards to another suspect. CORROBORATION supporting the evidence.

Also, re-arresting them at all once again offers Aruba up for world ridicule. They didn't have to do it. There was a meeting in which that was brought up. They chose to "do the right thing". Now, that's a change in attitude!

And, lastly, they planted an "infiltrator" into the group. That took time to develop and we don't know much about that, but that is very solid investigative tactics. While they were at it, they re-analyzed what evidence they had and were able to come up with a different angle. I'm HOPING it's the blood in the car, but I don't know that. The reason I don't know that is because there is solid reasoning not to divulge what they've gathered. They have gone to great lengths to control knowledge of what they hold in hopes it will thwart preparation for interrogation.

I'm hoping, and truthfully I believe, that the effort the chief prosecutor is making is an honest, earnest one. The judge's part is pending..........we'll see. I'm trying to be cautiously optimistic, and so far, there's reason to be, IMO.

[oldfart]

Helen
Yes ... It sounds like the Dutch investigatiors  found a lot of info in the case files that Aruba just "Overlooked" and even kinda went WTF  was going on there. 

As for Paulis and others...I'm hoping the Dutch have them on the list... just waiting for some other tid-bit from one of the three. 
JMO

[Anna]

I was thinking last night - is this all just some big game to save Aruba and the Kalpoe's some embarrassment in the Dr Phil case?  I haven't really been following whats going on in that case but last I remember, the judge was pressing the Kalpoes to turn over a bunch of documents and they were refusing.  Could this all just be some way to get out of the Dr Phil thing without having to disclose anything damaging to the island?

But it ruins their whole case, Blah.  How can Dr Phil be damaging their reputations when the Aruban Prosecutor is saying what he said and more?

The Prosecutor can't just say he is going to charge them without giving them the opportunity to  respond to charges.  That's basic due process and we have the same thing.

He has to at least give them the opportunity to address his accusations against them before saying he is charging them.

As I understand their strange system, once charges are brought, there is almost always a conviction.  I hope I am right about this. 

.

[Frank]

Coverup

"Finally, an admission that the three were never asked any difficult or follow-up questions in their previous "interrogations".  The statements were not accurately recorded in the PV's (lame ass "summaries" they were).  Information from the questioning was not written down or otherwise mentioned because someone made the executive decision that it was not relevant."

If this isn't a clear admission of a coverup I don't know what is.

[crazybabyborg]

Oh, I almost forgot! Robots got his cigar out and lit it, and we're all reserving spots on the street to watch Angie run nekky down the street, so, as Robots would say, it's over! 

[blah]

I was thinking last night - is this all just some big game to save Aruba and the Kalpoe's some embarrassment in the Dr Phil case?  I haven't really been following whats going on in that case but last I remember, the judge was pressing the Kalpoes to turn over a bunch of documents and they were refusing.  Could this all just be some way to get out of the Dr Phil thing without having to disclose anything damaging to the island?

But it ruins their whole case, Blah.  How can Dr Phil be damaging their reputations when the Aruban Prosecutor is saying what he said and more?

The Prosecutor can't just say he is going to charge them without giving them the opportunity to  respond to charges.  That's basic due process and we have the same thing.

He has to at least give them the opportunity to address his accusations against them before saying he is charging them.

As I understand their strange system, once charges are brought, there is almost always a conviction.  I hope I am right about this. 

.

I was thinking that this provides a way for the Kalpoes to drop the case against Dr Phil without having to hand over documents that would damage the island.  Once they are out of that mess, the prosecutors in Aruba and close the case in Aruba stating lack of evidence or whatever.  Aruba slides out of the whole mess without further damage.

[Sue]

I am kinda curious come Dec 7th cali court case if the brothers are still in jail
wonder if that will have any pull with having that case dismissed??

what do you think

[Observer]

Coverup

"Finally, an admission that the three were never asked any difficult or follow-up questions in their previous "interrogations".  The statements were not accurately recorded in the PV's (lame ass "summaries" they were).  Information from the questioning was not written down or otherwise mentioned because someone made the executive decision that it was not relevant."

If this isn't a clear admission of a coverup I don't know what is.

That has been obvious since the very beginning. So many holes in that first Investigation and they will never ever be able to explain it without confirming that it was a coverup and not idiots at work.

[blah]

Hiya, Blah! Good to see you!

It's my understanding that Joran has not been able to see either parent, that the suspects are being kept totally separated from each other, K2 isn't allowed to have the same attorney and that their attorneys were not allowed to go to court with them. Also, the chief prospecutor did not give all the content of the gathered evidence to any one of the 3 suspects, in a strategy to withold info that could be supplied by one in regards to another suspect. CORROBORATION supporting the evidence.

Also, re-arresting them at all once again offers Aruba up for world ridicule. They didn't have to do it. There was a meeting in which that was brought up. They chose to "do the right thing". Now, that's a change in attitude!

And, lastly, they planted an "infiltrator" into the group. That took time to develop and we don't know much about that, but that is very solid investigative tactics. While they were at it, they re-analyzed what evidence they had and were able to come up with a different angle. I'm HOPING it's the blood in the car, but I don't know that. The reason I don't know that is because there is solid reasoning not to divulge what they've gathered. They have gone to great lengths to control knowledge of what they hold in hopes it will thwart preparation for interrogation.

I'm hoping, and truthfully I believe, that the effort the chief prosecutor is making is an honest, earnest one. The judge's part is pending..........we'll see. I'm trying to be cautiously optimistic, and so far, there's reason to be, IMO.

Hiya cbb!!

I sure hope you are right, its just so hard not to believe there is some other motive here, yanno?

[Anna]

Klass,
Are you going to bring the Poll over to this thread?

[wreck]

I think this scenario is quite likely:
They might not have had incriminating wiretaps against Paulus until this past Wednesday when Joran was re-arrested. It would be VERY interesting to see the content of Paulus' conversations (and with whom) since then!!!

[crazybabyborg]

All three suspects are being held in separate police stations. They are not allowed visitors. Joran's hearing will be at an undisclosed location tomorrow. FOX NEWS

Fox is doing live updates hourly.

[Nut44x4]

Someone really needs to tell Jenna aka Resorttownmom at RU to give it up already.

OMG Klaas...I was about ready to post the same thing!! Pathetic.

[klaasend]

Klass,
Are you going to bring the Poll over to this thread?

I'm not sure I can move it...let me try.