Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 - 12/24/08

[texasmom]

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/



Kyle: The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th


May 16 - Kyle posted: I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains. The witness claims to have seen a muddy Joran coming out of the Monserat pond after disposing of her body.
<snip>
The 40+ investigators brought in from Holland never stepped foot in the pond

John Silvetti's email to Kyle: The Polis did not drain that pond and they did not search it, period!

JOHN SILVETTI TELLS CAPS THAT THE TRAP/CAGE IS A POSTOFFICE AND THE CAGE WAS EMPTY.
MARCH 3, 2008 – John Silvetti meets with CapsLockWizard

From an email sent from CapsLockWizard:
“Yes, We did have the meeting today. It was a long meeting and we are all set to start the process of a permit to drain. Witness will gave statement to Lawyer (Helen), Lawyer will motion to drain the pond to OM. If Motion denied, will go to media and expose more dirt. John knows everything now and he will stay behind to help and protect. John state the cage was empty. it was full of these broken plastic bags that shows on the cam like skull, but he said to me it is the water doing tricks when picture was taken. He thinks also it is a postoffice. When I told him the story about the cage, he also understand now some things that he could not have question about. Like why is the Panter allways parked over the spot while there is notting anymore in he cage. The meeting end at 5:00 pm and was very good. About the Pipes. They will be checked. Also John thinks that the signs are there but need to drain the pond. Also Withness is 99% it was some one that came from the pond area that he saw, because it looks like a dutch man and was cover in mud from the chest down.”


Kyle stated: "This is a picture from Natalee standing on the beach and rotated and scaled to the image to matching the body form inside the trap. It matches the end of the skirt identically to what was seen in the cage."

So if we look at Caps' email to Dave and then his posts, MUMinOhio is correct. Caps knew nothing and then he is somehow connected to a witness who magically appears and they go to John Silvetti and it turns John Silvetti from looking at the trap/cage and to looking at the pond, brings the witness to the states for a polygraph test and the evidence is gone from that trap/cage because no one knew except Kyle Kingman and that ROV unit that captured the last photos.
Meanwhile John Silvetti is trying to set up an office in Aruba. And so Aruba masterminded the diversion away from any thing about the person's remains inside that cage/trap in the ocean as well as Joran created a media stir with his sit-down Greta interview that he sold Natalee into sex slavery, then the attention turned to Rudy Croes statement Jan van der Straaten was involved in covering-up but that was also brought out in 2006 Jan v/d Straatten was indeed investigated and had telephone conversations with people about the case that he should not have contacts with, or even talk about the case.
and now as Hero Brinkman pointed out, if he knew of this, why did he wait 3 1/2 years to say something about it?

No body - no case seems to have been the Aruba code word for CORRUPTION!

#1468 on: May 07, 2008, 05:28:28 AM  muminohio
When Caps first started posting in the forum he knew very little about the case, or so it appears from his early posts. He asked us about the family, the friends, the private plane and the pimps. He asked about the suspects and about the people such as Julia and others that continually misinformed us. He needed our help and knowledge with these pieces of the puzzle. There is nothing wrong with that, I personally have spent a lot of time and posts sharing any information I had or could find.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379700#msg379700


NOW LET'S FOLLOW CAPS, THE WITNESS/Shango/Simian, ARUBA COPS, KYLE KINGMAN and John Silvetti:

Kyle said: "My opinion on Simian is that he is a detective/cop involved in the case since the beginning. My understanding is that there is only one of the originals remaining. He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed. The vision was cryptic and actually contained a latitude which from what he claimed could have been anywhere in the world. The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude. Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach. Basically, if you stood on land and pointed straight to the trap and were right on the money... this is what the difference amounts to. Based on this latitude we payed a little more attention to the northern portions of the search grid near that Latitude. The trap was found shortly after, within the original search area, but very close to the provided latitude. I would have found the trap without the latitude, but it was very strange. None of us pressed the two for more information because they clearly were VERY uncomfortable.

The brother of the detective came to us and was very persistent over the information. He was almost in tears and just had to "clear his conscience" about it.

His brother, the detective came with him to 'validate him'.

Personally, I think the detective was Simian. The guy kept his mouth shut for the most part but was obviously intelligent and knew a lot more than he led on. It didn't seem he immediately trusted us but gradually became more comfortable, enough to talk.

I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap. Basically, by using his brother and claiming the information he shared was only based on a vision, it distances the detective from responsibility and makes it hard to point back to him should it be a problem later. I think the whole game was bogus and he knew almost everything but was helping how he was able and felt comfortable. I don't understand why he had to use his brother and claim a "vision".

The implications of this are tremendous. If true, it means that the early investigators knew where and how Natalee was disposed and it was kept secret and covered up. Not wanting to be implicated but still wanting to help, he could shift the information to a vision of his brothers, perhaps still help a bit and claim no-involvement. However, this man was intelligent enough, cared about the case, yet was self implicated to a high enough level to want to be kept his knowledge a secret. He spoke well enough english and knew everything in my opinion. Perhaps I should find out his name. I never got it. We may never have.

Kyle said: "Based on the little I know of Simian, there are striking similarities that stood out after I laid down on the evening I met with the detective and his brother.Perhaps Simian is the detective and Shango is the brother.


Kyle said: "- IF a key detective's brother knew the latitude the trap was disposed at or very near, then it's probable the detective knew the same.

- IF the detective knew the latitude, how did he come to this knowledge?

- Who else knew this information?


Since the trap was only in 90ft of water and the detective knew about the latitude, did the Polis already know if it's location prior to the search?


The detective originally wouldn't meet with us and only wanted us to meet with his brother. We convinced him to meet along with his brother and made him feel as comfortable as possible. He reluctantly agreed but wouldn't talk. The brother did all the talking at first. It seemed to me the brother was acting out the "vision" scenario to protect the detective brother. It didn't feel like the brother was in any way corrupt or connected. Also, he wasn't that bright compared to the detective brother. After a while the detective started asking some questions and loosened up a bit. With the pointed questions he asked he proved he knew a lot, but we didn't press him.


The reason I think the detective is Simian is that:
- he is intimately connected to the case
- forced into silence
- both he and the brother seemed to want the case solved but the whole encounter was so CRYPTIC
- he is condemned if his identity and knowledge were BOTH exposed. One or the other, he's still safe
- He was intelligent and had a good enough command over the english language (not common over the rest of the bunch)


- IF his brother was acting on his behalf with the whole 'I had a vision' act, then the detective's character supports pulling something like Simian off.
- the detective was very internet and computer savy, which was unusual for the bulk of the Polis.
- It seemed he knew who I was when we were introduced, and said something indicating he had been reading the blog.
- his character was very cryptic; the way he moved, spoke, and asked questions was just not normal.

"Caps is not Simian. He has indicated he knows who was either Shango or Simian. The person he thinks it is, is a cop.


it was Clyde Burke that went to the meeting with Helen Lejuz

bump

[hotping]

Yesterday Kermit posted the long post from Kyle about the cop
and the brother......was Kyle talking about Clyde Burke as the
cop who was with his brother?
I have read it several times and can't get the sense of it.

Good question Magnolia.  I'm not sure either.  Maybe I'll go bring it forward so we can look at it some more.

I for one would appreciate that TM! Thanks! 

[Magnolia]

Yesterday Kermit posted the long post from Kyle about the cop
and the brother......was Kyle talking about Clyde Burke as the
cop who was with his brother?
I have read it several times and can't get the sense of it.

Good question Magnolia.  I'm not sure either.  Maybe I'll go bring it forward so we can look at it some more.

Please do.  I think the main point is that the cop knew where the
body was and passed it off as his brother's "vision".

[texasmom]

"Kyle said: "My opinion on Simian is that he is a detective/cop involved in the case since the beginning. My understanding is that there is only one of the originals remaining."

That is Clyde Burke, right?

"He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed. "

Yes, I think that is what Kermit was telling us, Magnolia. 

[hotping]

"Kyle said: "My opinion on Simian is that he is a detective/cop involved in the case since the beginning. My understanding is that there is only one of the originals remaining."

That is Clyde Burke, right?

"He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed. "

Yes, I think that is what Kermit was telling us, Magnolia. 

I think so too!

[cajun miracle]

I have a question....Did the Gab&Grumble site exist before
Kermit made his revelations or did it start shortly after that time?

Yes, from all indications ChatnGrumble was started more as an offshoot of the Caylee Anthony case in the beginning and it's inception has nothing to do with Kermit's revelations. 

Can this site be accessed, to read, or is it NOT available?

[Red]

Wreck,

I saw that you asked a question a while back and I will give you a more detailed response over the weekend. As much as I can.

Please know that there is always things going on behind the scenes that the media does not know about and would only report when is made public. The media does not investiagte ... they do things for ratings. Now more than ever.

Please know that there are things going on ... I will try and see what can actually be mentioned. Do not ever think that Beth gives up, she is too strong a woman to ever go that.

[wreck]

I have a question....Did the Gab&Grumble site exist before
Kermit made his revelations or did it start shortly after that time?

Yes, from all indications ChatnGrumble was started more as an offshoot of the Caylee Anthony case in the beginning and it's inception has nothing to do with Kermit's revelations. 

Can this site be accessed, to read, or is it NOT available?

you have to be registered and approved to read or post. I am neither - no desire.

[wreck]

Wreck,

I saw that you asked a question a while back and I will give you a more detailed response over the weekend. As much as I can.

Please know that there is always things going on behind the scenes that the media does not know about and would only report when is made public. The media does not investiagte ... they do things for ratings. Now more than ever.

Please know that there are things going on ... I will try and see what can actually be mentioned. Do not ever think that Beth gives up, she is too strong a woman to ever go that.

Thank-you -- I appreciate that. I would never ask that you reveal anything priveliged.  But a "reassurance" every once in awhile would be great!

[hotping]

The mention of a Vision reminded Me of this post...

Monkeys, I tried to go to sleep, because i waana get up tomorrow and see what we hear. Something kept me awake though. It was a post on the internet From March 2006. I know we discussed it here long ago, and I also brought it back here to the forum On December 9th. But now I really DO believe that someone who knew what happened was trying to tell us . I wonder if this is what we will hear tommorow?    I give you the post again....Left on a blog called    Joranvandersloot.com, in the comments........................

8:41 pm  anonymous said...
It was high tide and sea water covering the beach slope, Koen's boat stayed out at a distance in the water and he didn't want the boat got stuck in the beach sand dunes. Joran didn't want his shoes get wet and he took them off. He and Deepak together carried Natalee's body and walking through the water towards Koen's boat where Koen kept the boat's motor running and positioning, it was high tide and high wind, the sea waves were strong and rough. For some unknown reasons Joran got some blood into his shoes when the suspects were trying to fit Natalee's body into the
crap cage. They might have to do some cuttings of the body in order to get all the body parts into the cage. The cage was not a coffin shape, it was square in shape, not long enough to fit a body of 5'4. So Joran put his bloody shoes into the square crab cage as well. Together the suspects dropped cage to the deepsea bottom and got rid of the forensic evidence.[b/] If Tim Miller can locate the crab cage, Joran's shoes are there. Joran is the murderer.

[cajun miracle]

Wreck,

I saw that you asked a question a while back and I will give you a more detailed response over the weekend. As much as I can.

Please know that there is always things going on behind the scenes that the media does not know about and would only report when is made public. The media does not investiagte ... they do things for ratings. Now more than ever.

Please know that there are things going on ... I will try and see what can actually be mentioned. Do not ever think that Beth gives up, she is too strong a woman to ever go that.

Thanks Red!!!!!!!!! Yipppeeeeee & Merry Christmas.

[klaasend]

I have a question....Did the Gab&Grumble site exist before
Kermit made his revelations or did it start shortly after that time?

Yes, from all indications ChatnGrumble was started more as an offshoot of the Caylee Anthony case in the beginning and it's inception has nothing to do with Kermit's revelations. 

Was ChatnGrumble started by disgruntled Monkeys who were posting on the Caylee Marie forum.  I was wondering where some of original posters from that forum disappeared to.

Maybe I was the underlying reason for the formation of ChatnGrumble.  My uncompromising speculations.  Hey ... maybe I was the main reason for its formation.

My ears were not ringing as a forged onward in my speculations but ... sometimes it takes me a while to clue in.

Anyways ... I was not afforded an invitation.  I was not afforded the opportunity to decline.

 

Janet

I would say yes

[texasmom]

Wreck,

I saw that you asked a question a while back and I will give you a more detailed response over the weekend. As much as I can.

Please know that there is always things going on behind the scenes that the media does not know about and would only report when is made public. The media does not investiagte ... they do things for ratings. Now more than ever.

Please know that there are things going on ... I will try and see what can actually be mentioned. Do not ever think that Beth gives up, she is too strong a woman to ever go that.

Thanks Red!   

And thanks Wreck, for asking!   

[MuffyBee]

Wreck,

I saw that you asked a question a while back and I will give you a more detailed response over the weekend. As much as I can.

Please know that there is always things going on behind the scenes that the media does not know about and would only report when is made public. The media does not investiagte ... they do things for ratings. Now more than ever.

Please know that there are things going on ... I will try and see what can actually be mentioned. Do not ever think that Beth gives up, she is too strong a woman to ever go that.

Thank you for the encouragement Red. 

[hotping]

Wreck,

I saw that you asked a question a while back and I will give you a more detailed response over the weekend. As much as I can.

Please know that there is always things going on behind the scenes that the media does not know about and would only report when is made public. The media does not investiagte ... they do things for ratings. Now more than ever.

Please know that there are things going on ... I will try and see what can actually be mentioned. Do not ever think that Beth gives up, she is too strong a woman to ever go that.

Thank You Red! 

[Tamikosmom]

<SNIPPED?

When Caps first started posting in the forum he knew very little about the case, or so it appears from his early posts. He asked us about the family, the friends, the private plane and the pimps. He asked about the suspects and about the people such as Julia and others that continually misinformed us. He needed our help and knowledge with these pieces of the puzzle ...

<SNIPPED>

It is not just Caps lack of knowledge of the Natalee Holloway case and the main players in his initial posts ... it was also his attempt to portray that he did not have a grasp of the English language.

I hate deception and ... in my mind ... Caps was deception personified from the getgo.

The time spent attempting to interpret Caps cryptic words and ... the time following his flawed research ... told me that he had placed himself or ... was placed by higher ups to distract from the contents of that cage.

Janet

______

CAPS - JANUARY, 2008

CapsLockWizard
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #384 on: January 27, 2008, 02:51:39 PM »

need to know 2 things

Did Natalee travel somewhere before he come to Aruba

and

and the parents tree   Natalee is the doughter of  -----  and --------- etc.

I know that probably Dave Holloway has notting to do with this Case but the Twitty

Wat is twitty to natalee?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332978;topicseen#msg332978


CAPS - DECEMBER 13, 2008

CapsLockWizard
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #784 12/8/08 -
« Reply #925 on: December 13, 2008, 06:18:09 AM »

To seek Justice it has to come from the UN. No other place. it has to be done with the vigil eyes of either to Interpol or the FBI. This has to be resolved first.

Te reaon for this is that The Justice Ldy is standing one leg in the US Law system and one leg in the Dutch Law System.
But the Dutch Law and the US Law doe not meet eye to eye in terms of what is allowable or permissible in court.

E.g. Drinking in the US is 21, Drinking in Aruba is 18.
Driving us is 16 yr (student license), in Aruba is 18.

in the criminal law there are differance to be resolved. What is not possible in the US is possible in the Dutch Law.

To arbitraite between these two courts has to come form both side. If Aruba let the dutch Investige a Dutch Polis, how can they be fair...Now Aruba ALE can investige but in Aruba Court the Judge is a Dutch and the Prosecuters are Dutch...How fair can that be...

If we look at Bonaire case. The Dutch girls was a victim of a crime and the Dutch came down in storms to defend the Girls and seek Justice and where happy to acuse the Locals.

In the Case of Natalee , the process is reverse, this time we have a Dutch Perp...and a US girl Mising, What they did is to rotect this time the Dutch Perp at all Cost, by twisting the law to accomodate their own system to secure a safe haven for the boy.

Now haw fair is that, If I use the Term " Cacho no ta come Cacho" meaning Dogs do not eat Dogs.

The only way that it will work is that Natalee case go to the UN and there request a resolution to the facts and by this request an independant Body of Justice to do the Investigation...

I did wrote this in February 2008 already. The is a provision in the International in the UN for that type of checkmate between to law despute.

Even if Aruba do his own investigations, it can not be parcial since the OM are all Dutch and the police chiefs are all Dutch.

the checkmate lock has to be broken by an independed UN appointed court.

No other way,

Rudy Croes can request that, but that also means goodby to his whish to have the New BES island cout in Aruba. eventough it is a lost case already. The dutch has spoken allready.

CAPS

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4227.msg580535#msg580535

[texasmom]

The more I read, the more questions I have! 

[hotping]

The more I read, the more questions I have! 

Ain't that the truth! 

[texasmom]

Could it be that the detective knew the truth, wanted it to come out; so sends "brother" to the Persistence crew to tell about the "vision".  But knowing how close attention is being paid to the Persistence search by the monkeys; asks a "friend" to come here and distract the attention away from the ocean? 

[hotping]

Could it be that the detective knew the truth, wanted it to come out; so sends "brother" to the Persistence crew to tell about the "vision".  But knowing how close attention is being paid to the Persistence search by the monkeys; asks a "friend" to come here and distract the attention away from the ocean? 

Friend Equals Caps?