Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #81

[jjayinthemorning]

Wow that picture match up with the book is really great!
It's seeming more obvious that Casey was a party girl who liked her drugs and didn't want to be a mom. She's really dumb.

Did someone verify that Court TV will run the trial? Do we need to start a request process? Or would that risk the chance?

[islandmonkey]

Just watched the "untraceable"  terrible,gory, gross movie.

What was caseys other movie she like to watch about the child that was kidnapped?
Anyone know?

We must have been watching at the same time. I just finished too. Man, that was a sick movie! I believe the other one was Jumper. 

Is that the movie with the duct tape on the man's head. Didn't you say you can watch it on youtube?

Yes, I watched the whole thing on Youtube, it was in 10 parts. Which i kinda like cause I can fast forward thru parts I didn't want to see. There was one part in there that the man being killed (FBI agent) had duct tape wrapped around his mouth, going around his head several times, so he could see but not talk. 

Will it make me sick? Is it gory? Blood and splatter or do you just know what happens and don't see the gore?

I just watched it from amazon.com, and yes it is disgusting and it WILL indeed make you sick...........as I was watching it, I wondered if just maybe Casey was watching it to alleviate herself of any guilt, as these victims died a horrific death and in her backwards way of thinking, she may have felt better about the way Caylee died. No nanner throwing, just an idea to ponder.

edited~forgot to make my d@mn point!

[Nut44x4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6qumnj_WeM
Caylee - Recovery Site - Murdered - Tossed out in Garbage Bag
I am watching this now...a bit blurry w/ strange music. Dramatic...strange.

[flamom]

Wyks,
FWIW, I have always believed Crazy was using drugs.. I do not believe that she didnt know right from wrong, o no, but she always struck me as part of the drinking, ecstasy and xanax crowd.. I worked detox for several years and her pupils looked blown out to me.. also her behavior of not being concerned with consequences may be a combo of sociopathy and drug use
My Monkey friends, could I ask you pretty please to try to shorten the stax? it has been difficult trying to catch up.. Thanks 

[joesamas mama]

Just watched the "untraceable"  terrible,gory, gross movie.

What was caseys other movie she like to watch about the child that was kidnapped?
Anyone know?

We must have been watching at the same time. I just finished too. Man, that was a sick movie! I believe the other one was Jumper. 

Is that the movie with the duct tape on the man's head. Didn't you say you can watch it on youtube?

Yes, I watched the whole thing on Youtube, it was in 10 parts. Which i kinda like cause I can fast forward thru parts I didn't want to see. There was one part in there that the man being killed (FBI agent) had duct tape wrapped around his mouth, going around his head several times, so he could see but not talk. 

Will it make me sick? Is it gory? Blood and splatter or do you just know what happens and don't see the gore?

I just watched it from amazon.com, and yes it is disgusting and it WILL indeed make you sick...........as I was watching it, I wondered if just maybe Casey was watching it to alleviate herself of any guilt, as these victims died a horrific death and in her backwards way of thinking, she may have felt better about the way Caylee died. No nanner throwing, just an idea to ponder.

edited~forgot to make my d@mn point!

No need to edit. I knew what you were saying.

[islandmonkey]

Just watched the "untraceable"  terrible,gory, gross movie.

What was caseys other movie she like to watch about the child that was kidnapped?
Anyone know?

We must have been watching at the same time. I just finished too. Man, that was a sick movie! I believe the other one was Jumper. 

Is that the movie with the duct tape on the man's head. Didn't you say you can watch it on youtube?

Yes, I watched the whole thing on Youtube, it was in 10 parts. Which i kinda like cause I can fast forward thru parts I didn't want to see. There was one part in there that the man being killed (FBI agent) had duct tape wrapped around his mouth, going around his head several times, so he could see but not talk. 

Will it make me sick? Is it gory? Blood and splatter or do you just know what happens and don't see the gore?

I just watched it from amazon.com, and yes it is disgusting and it WILL indeed make you sick...........as I was watching it, I wondered if just maybe Casey was watching it to alleviate herself a bit, as these victims died a horrific death and in her backwards way of thinking, she may have felt better about the way Caylee died. No nanner throwing, just an idea to ponder.

Thanks Island, I didn't make it to blockbuster. Glad maybe now I didn't. But if she was glad Caylee didnt die the horrendous death, why the duct tape? I'm sorry I am really monkey confused. I just got bad news from my best friend and don't know how to comfort him. I really am glad I didn't see this movie. 

I'm sorry to hear about your best friend {{{hugs}}}. My theory on the duct tape is just a theory, I think she truly hated Caylee for being the one that took all the attention away from her, and I believe she was in a rage when she murdered her and truly wanted to eviscerate her from her mind (similar to an overkill when the heat of the crime is directed at someone they perceive did an "injustice" to them as sociopaths blame everyone else for there crimes), I think she wound the duct tape entirely around her head so she wouldn't have to see her face, thereby completely ridding herself of the memory of Caylee. 1-this would account for why the duct tape didn't fall off because your shape of the skull and 2-many killers who know their victim will cover their faces during the murder so they don't have to look them in the eyes. I posted my weird theories about 5 days ago and I had more points, but hell if I can remember them now!!!!!

[joesamas mama]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6qumnj_WeM
Caylee - Recovery Site - Murdered - Tossed out in Garbage Bag
I am watching this now...a bit blurry w/ strange music. Dramatic...strange.

Thanks Nut. It is really sad, not knowing what Caylee's dad looks like she got a lot of her features from Casey. Casey in some pictures was a pretty girl. Why the h*ll couldn't she have left the baby with George and CIndy and gone to party on her merry way.

Oh yeah I forgot. Cindy wouldn't allow it. Cindy was all about appearances and she wanted Casey to "take responsibility", which she never did in her whole lifetime. I BLAME Cindy as much as I blame Casey!

I did like the music though, but that is coming from an ice dancer point of view. Sorry O/T

[joesamas mama]

Just watched the "untraceable"  terrible,gory, gross movie.

What was caseys other movie she like to watch about the child that was kidnapped?
Anyone know?

We must have been watching at the same time. I just finished too. Man, that was a sick movie! I believe the other one was Jumper. 

Is that the movie with the duct tape on the man's head. Didn't you say you can watch it on youtube?

Yes, I watched the whole thing on Youtube, it was in 10 parts. Which i kinda like cause I can fast forward thru parts I didn't want to see. There was one part in there that the man being killed (FBI agent) had duct tape wrapped around his mouth, going around his head several times, so he could see but not talk. 

Will it make me sick? Is it gory? Blood and splatter or do you just know what happens and don't see the gore?

I just watched it from amazon.com, and yes it is disgusting and it WILL indeed make you sick...........as I was watching it, I wondered if just maybe Casey was watching it to alleviate herself a bit, as these victims died a horrific death and in her backwards way of thinking, she may have felt better about the way Caylee died. No nanner throwing, just an idea to ponder.

Thanks Island, I didn't make it to blockbuster. Glad maybe now I didn't. But if she was glad Caylee didnt die the horrendous death, why the duct tape? I'm sorry I am really monkey confused. I just got bad news from my best friend and don't know how to comfort him. I really am glad I didn't see this movie. 

I'm sorry to hear about your best friend {{{hugs}}}. My theory on the duct tape is just a theory, I think she truly hated Caylee for being the one that took all the attention away from her, and I believe she was in a rage when she murdered her and truly wanted to eviscerate her from her mind (similar to an overkill when the heat of the crime is directed at someone they perceive did an "injustice" to them as sociopaths blame everyone else for there crimes), I think she wound the duct tape entirely around her head so she wouldn't have to see her face, thereby completely ridding herself of the memory of Caylee. 1-this would account for why the duct tape didn't fall off because your shape of the skull and 2-many killers who know their victim will cover their faces during the murder so they don't have to look them in the eyes. I posted my weird theories about 5 days ago and I had more points, but hell if I can remember them now!!!!!

That all makes sense, but why not a pillow case or towel. Why duct tape?  I know sexual creeps cover their victims in that way, but you own child for Christ sakes? I guess I just don't think like a killer. Thanks for hugs to my friend. He is a special person that I love dearly (not boyfriend dearly) just friend dearly.

[Fuzzball]

1. Similar case involved a woman who faked a pregnancy. This is common and sometimes involved women cutting a baby out of another woman's belly to prove she was pregnant. Yes, involved the credibility to the baby daddy. This particular woman got the idea of the fake nanny from the news.

2. Untraceable. Casey definately got the tape around the head idea here and it was probably post mortum. The tape over the mouth and drug overdose was probably the death causer. jmho. Drug overdose/panic causes vomiting, if it can't get out it causes inhalation and choking.

So you think that she did the tape around the head after she was dead, but she taped her mouth shut also? Either way, makes me sick.

Good morning everyone. Hope all had a great holiday.
I do not think the duct tape was put on post mortem, only because I can't think of a single good reason why someone would do that.  Even if she did hatch the kidnapping story it doesn't make sense cause there wouldn't be a need to do that after she died.  It's all tooo sick....either way

She may have wanted to cover up her face so that she wouldnt have to see her..

Possibly, but why not just cover her face with a towel or pillowcase. Tape is just sick.

I think she did it to keep bugs out, like maybe she saw that on TV or read it or overheard George talking about it one time.

[islandmonkey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6qumnj_WeM
Caylee - Recovery Site - Murdered - Tossed out in Garbage Bag
I am watching this now...a bit blurry w/ strange music. Dramatic...strange.

Thanks Nut. It is really sad, not knowing what Caylee's dad looks like she got a lot of her features from Casey. Casey in some pictures was a pretty girl. Why the h*ll couldn't she have left the baby with George and CIndy and gone to party on her merry way.

Oh yeah I forgot. Cindy wouldn't allow it. Cindy was all about appearances and she wanted Casey to "take responsibility", which she never did in her whole lifetime. I BLAME Cindy as much as I blame Casey!

I did like the music though, but that is coming from an ice dancer point of view. Sorry O/T

I just watched Untraceable and I could almost swear that is is the music from the movie~crap, now I'm going to have to go back and listen again

[flamom]

Boo... how is your dad?

[Fuzzball]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6qumnj_WeM
Caylee - Recovery Site - Murdered - Tossed out in Garbage Bag
I am watching this now...a bit blurry w/ strange music. Dramatic...strange.

Thanks Nut. It is really sad, not knowing what Caylee's dad looks like she got a lot of her features from Casey. Casey in some pictures was a pretty girl. Why the h*ll couldn't she have left the baby with George and CIndy and gone to party on her merry way.

Oh yeah I forgot. Cindy wouldn't allow it. Cindy was all about appearances and she wanted Casey to "take responsibility", which she never did in her whole lifetime. I BLAME Cindy as much as I blame Casey!

That's so unfair IMO because so many people are saying it's Cindy's fault because she DIDn't make Casey take responsibility more. Sooner or later it had to happen that Cindy would demand that Casey grow up. She could not have known that Casey would take that out on Caylee to such an extent. She maybe envisioned a few days of angry sulking, maybe no ice cream for Caylee for a day or two. Or maybe an angry Casey driving around town complaining about her to everyone she'd ever met, but still treating Caylee like a Princess, or at worst leaving Caylee with the Grunds or with a sitter.

Nobody ever imagines their child could possibly hurt their grandchild. And IMO even these people who follow this case, and say to their kids "I would never cover for you if you did something like this," really are talking out of their hats. They don't know what they would do if it happened to them. You really can't know. We know what we HOPE we'd do, but that's it. Emotions are strange things and make people do things they don't think they'd do.

[Fuzzball]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6qumnj_WeM
Caylee - Recovery Site - Murdered - Tossed out in Garbage Bag
I am watching this now...a bit blurry w/ strange music. Dramatic...strange.

Thanks Nut. It is really sad, not knowing what Caylee's dad looks like she got a lot of her features from Casey. Casey in some pictures was a pretty girl. Why the h*ll couldn't she have left the baby with George and CIndy and gone to party on her merry way.

Oh yeah I forgot. Cindy wouldn't allow it. Cindy was all about appearances and she wanted Casey to "take responsibility", which she never did in her whole lifetime. I BLAME Cindy as much as I blame Casey!

I did like the music though, but that is coming from an ice dancer point of view. Sorry O/T

Why couldn't she let Cindy take custody?

[joesamas mama]

1. Similar case involved a woman who faked a pregnancy. This is common and sometimes involved women cutting a baby out of another woman's belly to prove she was pregnant. Yes, involved the credibility to the baby daddy. This particular woman got the idea of the fake nanny from the news.

2. Untraceable. Casey definately got the tape around the head idea here and it was probably post mortum. The tape over the mouth and drug overdose was probably the death causer. jmho. Drug overdose/panic causes vomiting, if it can't get out it causes inhalation and choking.

So you think that she did the tape around the head after she was dead, but she taped her mouth shut also? Either way, makes me sick.

Good morning everyone. Hope all had a great holiday.
I do not think the duct tape was put on post mortem, only because I can't think of a single good reason why someone would do that.  Even if she did hatch the kidnapping story it doesn't make sense cause there wouldn't be a need to do that after she died.  It's all tooo sick....either way

She may have wanted to cover up her face so that she wouldnt have to see her..

Possibly, but why not just cover her face with a towel or pillowcase. Tape is just sick.

I think she did it to keep bugs out, like maybe she saw that on TV or read it or overheard George talking about it one time.

Oh Gosh that makes sense Fuzzball. So she did it after she was dead? That makes me sick. I truly don't believe George had anything to do with all of it, but I bet Cindy knows more than her big mouth is saying.

[flamom]

And IMO even these people who follow this case, and say to their kids "I would never cover for you if you did something like this," really are talking out of their hats. They don't know what they would do if it happened to them. You really can't know.  Fuzzball
 .............................................................................
I DO know I wouldn't cover for either of my children because I am certain of what my values are. However, if they stood up and admitted to what they had done and faced the music, i would be beside them, my love is unconditional and my values are for certain...

[islandmonkey]

JSM~That all makes sense, but why not a pillow case or towel. Why duct tape?  I know sexual creeps cover their victims in that way, but you own child for Christ sakes? I guess I just don't think like a killer. Thanks for hugs to my friend. He is a special person that I love dearly (not boyfriend dearly) just friend dearly.




IMO a pillow case or towel could easily fall off and the duct tape wouldn't, plus to me it shows more anger, many times when say a man kills his wife and covers her face it is more for them, and I think she hated Caylee at this point and she wanted to forget she ever existed-duct tape won't fall off. Again just an opinion that hit me like a lighting bolt several days ago.....I could be way off and there may just be duct tape around her mouth, but I feel it is wrapped all over her face, sick biatch

[Wyks]

Okies.. It's been a bit slow on news in this case cuz of the holidays, am thinking.  For those of you waiting for something to sink your teeth into, here ya go.     I'm no psych doc, yet have agreed with many others that Casey is very likely a sociopath/psychopath.  On further study of Casey and the way she relates with family and others, am now thinking that it's likely that she is a 'malignant narcissist' instead.  Maybe tendencies of each.  See how much of this describes Casey:

-----

Otto Kernberg described malignant narcissism as a syndrome characterized by a narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), antisocial features, paranoid traits, and ego-syntonic aggression. An absence of conscience, a psychological need for power, and a sense of importance (grandiosity) are often symptomatic of Malignant Narcissism. Pollock wrote: "The malignant narcissist is presented as pathologically grandiose, lacking in conscience and behavioral regulation with characteristic demonstrations of joyful cruelty and sadism."  Kernberg claimed that malignant narcissism should be considered part of a spectrum of pathological narcissism, which he saw as ranging from the Cleckley's antisocial character (today's psychopath) at the high end of severity, to malignant narcissism, to NPD at the low end.

Kernberg wrote that malignant narcissism can be differentiated from psychopathy because of the malignant narcissists' capacity to internalize "both aggressive and idealized superego precursors, leading to the idealization of the aggressive, sadistic features of the pathological grandiose self of these patients." According to Kernberg, the psychopaths' paranoid stance against external influences makes them unwilling to internalize even the values of the "aggressor," while malignant narcissists "have the capacity to admire powerful people, and can depend on sadistic and powerful but reliable parental images." Malignant narcissists, in contrast to psychopaths, are also said to be capable of developing "some identification with other powerful idealized figures as part of a cohesive 'gang' ... which permits at least some loyalty and good object relations to be internalized."

Malignant narcissism is highlighted as a key area when it comes to the study of mass, sexual, and serial murder.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant_narcissism

Can you elaborate more on this? I don't quite get the connection yet. She's not a mass murderer, or a serial killer, nor was this murder part of a sexual act.
She didn't kill Caylee for her own sexual gratification.

What isn't clear, is whether she was sacrificing Caylee to be with Tony, sort of killing the part of herself she saw as standing in the way, or whether she did it to hurt Cindy. If she's a malignant narcissist, are you saying that she identifies with her father and LE? Who are the powerful people she admires and is obedient to? The personality type you're describing is kind of like those people who kill their kids while performing exorcisms, or who kill people to show loyalty to their gang or their church or their "superior" race.

Casey is without conscience, and presents a mild danger in that she'll lie to or steal from anybody. But nobody's ever complained about violent behavior from her at all, until now. She's not a Jeffrey Dahmer or a Ted Bundy. She more fits the Diane Downs and Susan Smith type profile, where she's justified in her own mind in killing her child because it's hers. Although there's some small evidence to suggest that this was on the way to becoming a mass murder, that's really just a theory. We don't have proof yet that she was going to do that.

Ok, I'll try, it's hard to explain this concept in full in a forum, which is why I provided the article, and then in my next post after that a link to a longer much more detailed report.  http://tinyurl.com/7kudn3  At this link, I sure wish I could copy portions, especially near the end, because it describes Casey spot on, IMO.  You can also google ---> malignant narcissism <--- for further explanations. 

Before I begin to explain what I see so far, just want to mention that I did not say or mean to imply that Casey is a mass murderer, serial killer, or that this was part of a sexual act.  As you say, whether or not she was on her way to becoming or taking part in any of these, is purely speculation, not fact, at this time. 

I think if you step back and look at the bigger picture, you may see that Casey's relationship with Cindy and her relationship with men seem to parallel each other.  It appears that Casey needed to be the princess, the adored one, and that she seems to have gone out of her way to achieve this, despite the cost.  With Cindy, Caylee seems to have replaced Casey as the adored little princess.  With men, at least with Jesse, the same thing happened.  Casey seems to have kicked Jesse to the curb when she may have realized how very attached to Caylee he was.  On the other hand, it seems that just after Tony reportedly made a comment that he preferred having male children, Caylee ended up missing.  Seems that for Casey, having Caylee around was a liability.  In this respect, it's likely that to hurt Cindy to the core (revenge) as well as to ensure herself her own place in a man's heart, Casey put things in motion for the disappearance of the liability, her daughter.  I don't think it was just because of one or the other, but both.  Cuz she evidently had plans for Caylee's demise before she met Tony, even tho Caylee went missing just after Casey supposedly slept with Tony the first time.  At that same time she was either moving out of her home or being kicked out by Cindy.  Also happening at the same time was the reported 'big fight' between her and Cindy.  It's hard to seperate these things out, and maybe we don't have to, because they do seem to be linked. 

No, I don't think Casey identifies with her father and LE.  IMO, she sees him as weak.  I believe that there has been a love-hate thing going on between Casey and Cindy, that they are VERY much alike, that Casey may have tried her whole life to please Cindy, and in some aspects not only identifies with her, but also tries to one-up.  Cindy has shown herself to be very controlling, and in that sense Casey may have seen her as an 'all-powerful' person.  Casey may have wanted this spot for herself, and the battle was on.  May have wanted both the roles of cherished princess at the same time wanted to be THE big bad boss, making the decisions of her own life and of others.  Both being repelled by Cindy and fascinated by her at the same time.  Casey and Cindy both seem to have their own seperate 'realities' and at least one in common.  They certainly do seem to have created their own sense of being 'superior' to all, in and of themselves.  It's possible that in a weird sense, the characters in their realities are 'the gang', or their 'superior race'.  I don't know that Caylee was killed because of any loyalties to a gang, but likely more because Cindy and Casey's 'realities' collided, and Caylee was in the way of what Casey wanted for her life.  For several reasons, as mentioned above.  Again, that's IMO. 

You're right in that we don't know of anyone yet who has complained about Casey being violent.  That doesn't mean that she hasn't been tho.  Think back to the interviews, where when Cindy was asked if there was violence in the home, she hesitates and replied with a soft, 'no'.  I call BS on that!!  There HAS BEEN violence in that home, that was one very clear indication, given the fact that Cindy has expounded at length on every other detail and then some.  The thing we do not know for sure is WHO has been violent in that home.  It's been reported that Cindy had her hands around Casey's throat during that fight and was choking her.  What hasn't been explained is what appears to be a wound on Cindy's nose and what could have been two black eyes.  Was Cindy's nose perhaps broken in that fight, causing black eyes?  Or was it just a pimple or something, and circles under her eyes due to lack of sleep.  We don't know.  I'm saying it's very likely that Casey was violent with her parents, just as it's likely they were violent with her.  Where is Caylee in all this?  Dead.  And not as the result of an accident either. 

IMO, we can see Casey in this, from the above article:
""The malignant narcissist is presented as pathologically grandiose, lacking in conscience and behavioral regulation with characteristic demonstrations of joyful cruelty and sadism."

You're right in that we don't have proof yet what Casey's intent was.  And yet, we are gathered in this forum to discuss the possibilities, and this has been my opinion.  Anyone is welcome to disagree with me, it's my own opinion, not fact. 

If you have a chance to read that info at the above link, you may see areas that seem to fit Casey.  Not every area, no.  But a good majority, IMO.  It's a long read, but worth it in trying to understand this concept, especially near the end of that article/chapter.  Again, IMO.   

[joesamas mama]

JSM~That all makes sense, but why not a pillow case or towel. Why duct tape?  I know sexual creeps cover their victims in that way, but you own child for Christ sakes? I guess I just don't think like a killer. Thanks for hugs to my friend. He is a special person that I love dearly (not boyfriend dearly) just friend dearly.




IMO a pillow case or towel could easily fall off and the duct tape wouldn't, plus to me it shows more anger, many times when say a man kills his wife and covers her face it is more for them, and I think she hated Caylee at this point and she wanted to forget she ever existed-duct tape won't fall off. Again just an opinion that hit me like a lighting bolt several days ago.....I could be way off and there may just be duct tape around her mouth, but I feel it is wrapped all over her face, sick biatch

That makes a lot of sense. It is really hard to even think like Casey so that makes a lot of sense to me. I just don't understand the tape. Keep her quiet maybe, but after she is dead. Crazy, but makes sense she hated Caylee with a passion. But why the Bella Vida tattoo? Maybe she was living in a fantasy land, I don't know. Makes me sick just to think about what all she did to that poor baby.

[NO1ZMONKEY]

Found this at another forum, think it's interesting all pulled together like this:

---------

I believe that it is common knowledge that among kc and her friends there was alot of alcohol being consumed. But just in case you disagree with that statement, refer to tone r's interview with le on 7/24, before he resigned (he resigned immediately after being interviewed)he stated that he saw jesse have to carry kc out of a bar he thinks it was 11/07 "I'm assuming she was pretty tanked."
I believe that kc was doing serious drugs and had been since at least 2006, probably longer. Below are drug references.

1. new docs, part 10, pg 31 jesse has to call 911 for kc she has a seizure, this occurred on 11/18/07 kc had been drinking heavily the night before per jesse.

2.new docs, part 8, my space of kc post from the devinator on 4/5/08 just want to let you know how Xdrunk I am hahaha laugh at me tomorrow. posted by the devinator on 4/7/08 p.s. that text was hilarious, then the next morning mah bad. ( reference to X or ecstasy)

3.new docs, part 1 and 8 Xanax conversation with jesse (note that kc spells xanax correctly, even though most people mis-spell it zanax. kc "you want me to hit up my friend annie for some xanax? we'd be a good time."

4.new docs, part 10 kc's searches for chloroform habit. this tells me she had a bad habit very addictive stuff, not good as a babysitter would only knock you out for short period of time. Xanax would be much better.

5.w/s images only sticky thread post #66 halloween party 2006 , adults sucking on lollipops while drinking alcoholic beverages, ecstasy makes you grind your teeth and something to suck on helps this side effect.

6. new docs, part 6, pg 13 listing in kc phone for someone named "special k" refernce to ketamine. Two psychological difficulties which seem to come up for those who use Ketamine regularly are paranoia and egocentrism. There are many reports of regular users starting to see patterns and coincidences (synchronicities) in the world around them which seem to indicate that they are somehow more important or integral to the world than others. This same sense of the world focusing on the user can also feed into a sense of paranoia. A main characteristic of Ketamine is a stupor similar to extreme drunkenness. This is commonly known as "being in the K-hole."

7. images only. kc clover tat on backside/sean d 2 clovers, 3 stars and at least one heart. the following is an excerpt from the DEA website.
"The arrests are the result of a one year investigation called "Operation Green Clover," named after a specific type of Ecstasy tablet.

Good research and good observations, IMO. Wonder if the clovers are a way to signal that she's in the market for some, or if perhaps she was just getting into dealing and the clovers signalled that? Casey's life makes so little sense unless there is some kind of mental illness or drug activity going on from the start.

Also remember how quick tony was to say his roomate took xanax? That same roomate, on his myspace has a picture were his pupils look outta this world, and there is a comment that says, "how many rollers are you on?" So yeah they are being meek about how much drug useage was going down in that apt. it had to be enough to get caseys mind on a tailspin. could also explain all her sleepless nights *we all know guilt probably wasnt a factor, since she has none*

[joesamas mama]

Okies.. It's been a bit slow on news in this case cuz of the holidays, am thinking.  For those of you waiting for something to sink your teeth into, here ya go.     I'm no psych doc, yet have agreed with many others that Casey is very likely a sociopath/psychopath.  On further study of Casey and the way she relates with family and others, am now thinking that it's likely that she is a 'malignant narcissist' instead.  Maybe tendencies of each.  See how much of this describes Casey:

-----

Otto Kernberg described malignant narcissism as a syndrome characterized by a narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), antisocial features, paranoid traits, and ego-syntonic aggression. An absence of conscience, a psychological need for power, and a sense of importance (grandiosity) are often symptomatic of Malignant Narcissism. Pollock wrote: "The malignant narcissist is presented as pathologically grandiose, lacking in conscience and behavioral regulation with characteristic demonstrations of joyful cruelty and sadism."  Kernberg claimed that malignant narcissism should be considered part of a spectrum of pathological narcissism, which he saw as ranging from the Cleckley's antisocial character (today's psychopath) at the high end of severity, to malignant narcissism, to NPD at the low end.

Kernberg wrote that malignant narcissism can be differentiated from psychopathy because of the malignant narcissists' capacity to internalize "both aggressive and idealized superego precursors, leading to the idealization of the aggressive, sadistic features of the pathological grandiose self of these patients." According to Kernberg, the psychopaths' paranoid stance against external influences makes them unwilling to internalize even the values of the "aggressor," while malignant narcissists "have the capacity to admire powerful people, and can depend on sadistic and powerful but reliable parental images." Malignant narcissists, in contrast to psychopaths, are also said to be capable of developing "some identification with other powerful idealized figures as part of a cohesive 'gang' ... which permits at least some loyalty and good object relations to be internalized."

Malignant narcissism is highlighted as a key area when it comes to the study of mass, sexual, and serial murder.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant_narcissism

Can you elaborate more on this? I don't quite get the connection yet. She's not a mass murderer, or a serial killer, nor was this murder part of a sexual act.
She didn't kill Caylee for her own sexual gratification.

What isn't clear, is whether she was sacrificing Caylee to be with Tony, sort of killing the part of herself she saw as standing in the way, or whether she did it to hurt Cindy. If she's a malignant narcissist, are you saying that she identifies with her father and LE? Who are the powerful people she admires and is obedient to? The personality type you're describing is kind of like those people who kill their kids while performing exorcisms, or who kill people to show loyalty to their gang or their church or their "superior" race.

Casey is without conscience, and presents a mild danger in that she'll lie to or steal from anybody. But nobody's ever complained about violent behavior from her at all, until now. She's not a Jeffrey Dahmer or a Ted Bundy. She more fits the Diane Downs and Susan Smith type profile, where she's justified in her own mind in killing her child because it's hers. Although there's some small evidence to suggest that this was on the way to becoming a mass murder, that's really just a theory. We don't have proof yet that she was going to do that.

Ok, I'll try, it's hard to explain this concept in full in a forum, which is why I provided the article, and then in my next post after that a link to a longer much more detailed report.  http://tinyurl.com/7kudn3  At this link, I sure wish I could copy portions, especially near the end, because it describes Casey spot on, IMO.  You can also google ---> malignant narcissism <--- for further explanations. 

Before I begin to explain what I see so far, just want to mention that I did not say or mean to imply that Casey is a mass murderer, serial killer, or that this was part of a sexual act.  As you say, whether or not she was on her way to becoming or taking part in any of these, is purely speculation, not fact, at this time. 

I think if you step back and look at the bigger picture, you may see that Casey's relationship with Cindy and her relationship with men seem to parallel each other.  It appears that Casey needed to be the princess, the adored one, and that she seems to have gone out of her way to achieve this, despite the cost.  With Cindy, Caylee seems to have replaced Casey as the adored little princess.  With men, at least with Jesse, the same thing happened.  Casey seems to have kicked Jesse to the curb when she may have realized how very attached to Caylee he was.  On the other hand, it seems that just after Tony reportedly made a comment that he preferred having male children, Caylee ended up missing.  Seems that for Casey, having Caylee around was a liability.  In this respect, it's likely that to hurt Cindy to the core (revenge) as well as to ensure herself her own place in a man's heart, Casey put things in motion for the disappearance of the liability, her daughter.  I don't think it was just because of one or the other, but both.  Cuz she evidently had plans for Caylee's demise before she met Tony, even tho Caylee went missing just after Casey supposedly slept with Tony the first time.  At that same time she was either moving out of her home or being kicked out by Cindy.  Also happening at the same time was the reported 'big fight' between her and Cindy.  It's hard to seperate these things out, and maybe we don't have to, because they do seem to be linked. 

No, I don't think Casey identifies with her father and LE.  IMO, she sees him as weak.  I believe that there has been a love-hate thing going on between Casey and Cindy, that they are VERY much alike, that Casey may have tried her whole life to please Cindy, and in some aspects not only identifies with her, but also tries to one-up.  Cindy has shown herself to be very controlling, and in that sense Casey may have seen her as an 'all-powerful' person.  Casey may have wanted this spot for herself, and the battle was on.  May have wanted both the roles of cherished princess at the same time wanted to be THE big bad boss, making the decisions of her own life and of others.  Both being repelled by Cindy and fascinated by her at the same time.  Casey and Cindy both seem to have their own seperate 'realities' and at least one in common.  They certainly do seem to have created their own sense of being 'superior' to all, in and of themselves.  It's possible that in a weird sense, the characters in their realities are 'the gang', or their 'superior race'.  I don't know that Caylee was killed because of any loyalties to a gang, but likely more because Cindy and Casey's 'realities' collided, and Caylee was in the way of what Casey wanted for her life.  For several reasons, as mentioned above.  Again, that's IMO. 

You're right in that we don't know of anyone yet who has complained about Casey being violent.  That doesn't mean that she hasn't been tho.  Think back to the interviews, where when Cindy was asked if there was violence in the home, she hesitates and replied with a soft, 'no'.  I call BS on that!!  There HAS BEEN violence in that home, that was one very clear indication, given the fact that Cindy has expounded at length on every other detail and then some.  The thing we do not know for sure is WHO has been violent in that home.  It's been reported that Cindy had her hands around Casey's throat during that fight and was choking her.  What hasn't been explained is what appears to be a wound on Cindy's nose and what could have been two black eyes.  Was Cindy's nose perhaps broken in that fight, causing black eyes?  Or was it just a pimple or something, and circles under her eyes due to lack of sleep.  We don't know.  I'm saying it's very likely that Casey was violent with her parents, just as it's likely they were violent with her.  Where is Caylee in all this?  Dead.  And not as the result of an accident either. 

IMO, we can see Casey in this, from the above article:
""The malignant narcissist is presented as pathologically grandiose, lacking in conscience and behavioral regulation with characteristic demonstrations of joyful cruelty and sadism."

You're right in that we don't have proof yet what Casey's intent was.  And yet, we are gathered in this forum to discuss the possibilities, and this has been my opinion.  Anyone is welcome to disagree with me, it's my own opinion, not fact. 

If you have a chance to read that info at the above link, you may see areas that seem to fit Casey.  Not every area, no.  But a good majority, IMO.  It's a long read, but worth it in trying to understand this concept, especially near the end of that article/chapter.  Again, IMO.   

Good Job Wyks. I have always believe Cindy was the catalyst for the murder. Whether she and Casey got into it Father's day, I truly believe she pissed Casey off so badly she killed Caylee out of revenge. Casey was a bad mom, Casey did this Casey did that, blah blah blah. Cindy egged it on and I blame her as much as I do Casey. If I were on the jury Casey would not get sympathy from me, but I can see why she did it. Cindy is a control freak and Casey was sick of being controlled.

Maybe that's why she did it, so Cindy had no control over Casey or Caylee. Sorry for the rant.