Lively Case Discussion #483 6/29/2006

[spooky112483]

RED
Excellent FP!!!!!!!!!
Two thumbs way up and a standing ovation

[Kat_Gram]

And since when does a bogus witness rate a 2 month media blackout?

Was it just to give the impression that they were working?

Dunno, JQK stated that he thought KJ was really believeing in the witness even though JQK had been sceptical.

Maybe KJ is pretty good at telling JQK believable stories?

KJ probably believes that wrestling is real ! !
What is she goung to do in Holland ?
Sell tulip bulbs door-to-door?
She looks too young to retire, but too stoooooooopid to work !
Sorry, I got her stuck on the stooooooooooooooopid.

[igsigs]

...rant continued

And what was MF's big story that was 'good news'?

A lying, extorting witness is good news for who exactly?

[klaasend]

Flash from the past - what poster said these words in June 2005?

WHO SIGNED THE PAPERS?  WHO MAKES THE DECISION WHETHER TO ARREST SOMEONE?

This poster finally asked it enough times that I started researching Auban law and determined that person was KJ.  That was mid June 2005.

[klaasend]

...rant continued

And what was MF's big story that was 'good news'?

A lying, extorting witness is good news for who exactly?

For closing the case?

[igsigs]

Big Hammer

[klaasend]

Big Hammer

Yep, wasn't it you that also helped gather information for him??

[igsigs]

Big Hammer

Yep, wasn't it you that also helped gather information for him??

No. I wish. I just remember Hammer asking AG and NL that question. Wonder if he ever got the answer?

[Kat_Gram]

Flash from the past - what poster said these words in June 2005?

WHO SIGNED THE PAPERS?  WHO MAKES THE DECISION WHETHER TO ARREST SOMEONE?

This poster finally asked it enough times that I started researching Auban law and determined that person was KJ.  That was mid June 2005.

Yup, door-to-door tulip bulbs ! ! !
Or they will give her a rubber stamp. And a stapler. And put the alphabet up on the wall for filing.
So, it was KJ who signed the papers for the security guards. Wonder who tipped off the media  ?

[Anna]

.
Here are a few things I have come to believe after all this time.  Just
opinions and my speculations, I have no proof of any of this, none:

I think the twenty times this happened before involved various other friends of Joran, not just the K2.  That is why so many were called in as witnesses.  They have participated at one time or another in this same activity, know the drill, etc.  Different times, different friends but they did this all the time and do not even think it wrong at all.

Normally, a hotel would be used but since Anita was away, Joran's apartment would be just fine, neighbors away, more buds to join in located close by.

KJ and Paulus have a VERY special relationship from sharing office space for so many years.  I wish she were really trying but I think she is just not passing on to the judge all the evidence, etc. that she does have.They have made it past the halfway point toward clearing all of even being suspects based on the time limits alone.  

Even if the case is closed, there will not be any cold case investigation as van der Straaten has already stated that no one was going to come behind and check his work, etc.  Participants have to be invited in to re-examine a cold case and that's not going to happen in this one.  Pretty much only the Dutch apply anyway and we know what they will find.  Same deal as all the forensics.  

So, we are really going to need a favorable ruling for the civil action, otherwise, I don't know what else will be done in Aruba.  

[San]

And since when does a bogus witness rate a 2 month media blackout?

Was it just to give the impression that they were working?

Or were they trying to think of a story to pin the murder on him.

[Anna]

...rant continued

And what was MF's big story that was 'good news'?

A lying, extorting witness is good news for who exactly?

JORAN, for one.    

[igsigs]

And since when does a bogus witness rate a 2 month media blackout?

Was it just to give the impression that they were working?

Or were they trying to think of a story to pin the murder on him.

San! Get out of my head! That's exactly what i was thinkin after i posted. They just could not make it work in the end.

[klaasend]

Big Hammer

Yep, wasn't it you that also helped gather information for him??

No. I wish. I just remember Hammer asking AG and NL that question. Wonder if he ever got the answer?

He never got an answer from them, he got one from me.  I found the Government website that said the prosecutor is in charge of the police. The prosecutor would decide who would be arrested/detained and who would not.  The prosecutor gives evidence to the Judge and the Judge desides if they will remain suspects.  We don't know what the prosecutor DOESN'T give the judge.  The Judge can only rule based on what he is given by the prosecutor.

[Kat_Gram]

.
Here are a few things I have come to believe after all this time.  Just
opinions and my speculations, I have no proof of any of this, none:

I think the twenty times this happened before involved various other friends of Joran, not just the K2.  That is why so many were called in as witnesses.  They have participated at one time or another in this same activity, know the drill, etc.  Different times, different friends but they did this all the time and do not even think it wrong at all.

Normally, a hotel would be used but since Anita was away, Joran's apartment would be just fine, neighbors away, more buds to join in located close by.

KJ and Paulus have a VERY special relationship from sharing office space for so many years.  I wish she were really trying but I think she is just not passing on to the judge all the evidence, etc. that she does have.They have made it past the halfway point toward clearing all of even being suspects based on the time limits alone.  

Even if the case is closed, there will not be any cold case investigation as van der Straaten has already stated that no one was going to come behind and check his work, etc.  Participants have to be invited in to re-examine a cold case and that's not going to happen in this one.  Pretty much only the Dutch apply anyway and we know what they will find.  Same deal as all the forensics.  

So, we are really going to need a favorable ruling for the civil action, otherwise, I don't know what else will be done in Aruba.  

I tend to agree. Sprong said something about having Holland look at it, but how is that done ?
I am not convinced that Natalee was at Joran's for any length of time. but it is just an opinion.
The ppl who have the evidence are the ones who participated in the cover up, so how are you going to wring that out of them ? They would shred, burn or flush rather than have legal experts in Holland look at what they did.
A pox on them all !  !      

[Anna]

[
He never got an answer from them, he got one from me.  I found the Government website that said the prosecutor is in charge of the police. The prosecutor would decide who would be arrested/detained and who would not.  The prosecutor gives evidence to the Judge and the Judge desides if they will remain suspects.  We don't know what the prosecutor DOESN'T give the judge.  The Judge can only rule based on what he is given by the prosecutor.

Even after a ruling is made, do we ever get to see what the judge was given?  Or in this case, what he was NOT given??  I just don't think KJ gives them any evidence.  Why didn't she correct the judge who would not issue a search warrant based on one of the younger brothers being home??  Why did she not get that search warrant?  

And couldn't think of any reason why the boys would lie?  I do not believe she is stupid.  She is playing the game and great will be her reward in Holland for doing so.

[igsigs]

The Judge can only rule based on what he is given by the prosecutor.

Great work Klaas. This is the part that bugs me the most. Damn this closed system, if we could see what info KJ presented to the judges that preceeded their confusing rulings i think this whole mess would be a lot clearer.

[spooky112483]

Here's what i'm thinking....we have two contradicting accounts here...
one: "she wanted to see my big house"
two: his lie about being an exchange student
these two can not reconcile because he can not front as an exchange student AND have a big family house on the island. So only ONE of these things actually happened. Now since we have many sources saying that #2 happened and since #1 has only come out of Joran's mouth, why would we believe #1???
We believe #1 because for him to admitt that they went to his house must be because   he knows someone else has placed them there that night and he needs to reconcile that.
So we can safely assume that they stopped outside his house that night and we can also assume that he was saying he was an exchange student.
What if he said to her not "do you want to see MY big house" but "do you want to see my FRIENDS big house"??
And if we believe Nat was drugged, she could have fallen for this and by the time they actually got to the house (after driving around in circles a bit) she would have been so out of it she wouldnt have known the differance.
Just thinking out loud....

[klaasend]

[
He never got an answer from them, he got one from me.  I found the Government website that said the prosecutor is in charge of the police. The prosecutor would decide who would be arrested/detained and who would not.  The prosecutor gives evidence to the Judge and the Judge desides if they will remain suspects.  We don't know what the prosecutor DOESN'T give the judge.  The Judge can only rule based on what he is given by the prosecutor.

Even after a ruling is made, do we ever get to see what the judge was given?  Or in this case, what he was NOT given??  I just don't think KJ gives them any evidence.  Why didn't she correct the judge who would not issue a search warrant based on one of the younger brothers being home??  Why did she not get that search warrant?  

And couldn't think of any reason why the boys would lie?  I do not believe she is stupid.  She is playing the game and great will be her reward in Holland for doing so.

Dompig said that a search warrent for the entire VDS home was requested and denyed twice.  Why was it denyed?  What evidence was the Judge given?

[spooky112483]

Flash from the past - what poster said these words in June 2005?

WHO SIGNED THE PAPERS?  WHO MAKES THE DECISION WHETHER TO ARREST SOMEONE?

This poster finally asked it enough times that I started researching Auban law and determined that person was KJ.  That was mid June 2005.

behind but i wanted to guess...was it Hammer?