Natalee Case Discussion #759 6/18 - 6/22

[2NJSons_Mom]

Thanks Finngirl.

Let's see here, he is flying here to cancel or seek a refund of deposits and his son had not graduated yet?  Heck, even I didn't have to pay anything of any kind before my kid had graduated.  I think I smell another lie...he was here, but not for that.  They would have mailed it back to him. No reason to fly all the way here when he had much bigger problems on Aruba...not buying it.  Thanks again for letting me know...once again...hmmmmm.

NAIL ON HEAD ALERT! Darn right Lalas. All he would have had to do is make a phone call or send a written request to withdraw Joran from school. Plenty of time for that, Goon Child had just gotten out of high school. This was no emergency. If he flew to the States it was to get his evil son out of something much bigger than school.

LOL…$40,000 Scholarship…What refund?…

The $40,000 scholarship figure is the total amount.  It is distributed over four years at $10,000/year if he maintains a specific grade point average.  This is not a particularly large scholarship amount for a private college.

Want to add, per our experience, $10,000 per year can be on the high end for a private college, whether academic or athletic scholarship.  We're still paying loans, here, for the balance.  (of course, this is based on the one private college son attended)

[Rob]

English version of the clip I posted about the other day -

Duijneveld longer in custody
20 Jun, 2008, 17:55 (GMT -04:00)

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_43594.php   
ORANJESTAD – The examining magistrate has prolonged the custody of lawyer Edwin Duijneveld with eight days. Duijneveld was returned to his cell in Santa Cruz after the verdict. Duijneveld is accused of complicity in deceptive bankruptcy.

According to the Public Prosecutor (OM), during the investigation of the Domino-case it became clear that Duijneveld was guilty of acting as the ‘financial man’ of businessman Luis Mansur. Duijneveld’s house and office were searched last week and documents, and computers were confiscated,

The OM had already searched the office of Duijneveld last year after the arrest of Mansur and other suspects in the Domino-case. At that time, the lawyer cooperated voluntarily in this search.

[Rob]

This is the story caesu was talking about yesterday - however, there is still not an English version.


Hendrik Croes en agent Maduro beiden vervolgd.
20 Jun, 2008, 18:43 (GMT -04:00)

ORANJESTAD — Het Openbaar Ministerie (OM) heeft naar aanleiding van de aanrijding van 16 maart op de rotonde te Paradera besloten zowel advocaat Hendrik Croes als politieagent Edgar Maduro aan te klagen.

Beiden worden gedagvaard om op 3 juli voor de rechter te verschijnen. Tijdens het uitgebreide onderzoek zijn diverse getuigen gehoord en hebben rechercheurs van de Landsrecherche alsmede leden van de technische recherche het incident gereconstrueerd. Na onderzoek heeft het OM besloten om Croes een drietal feiten ten laste te leggen. Het zwaarste strafbare feit is poging tot zware mishandeling van de politieagent. Verder wordt Croes verweten dat hij na aanrijding van Maduro is doorgereden zonder dat zijn identiteit behoorlijk kon worden vastgesteld. Justitie verwijt hem bovendien dat hij door zijn rijgedrag de verkeersveiligheid in gevaar heeft gebracht.

Het OM klaagt Maduro aan omdat hij naast zijn aangifte van mishandeling, ook aangifte tegen Croes heeft gedaan van poging tot doodslag. Op dit punt meent justitie dat uit het onderzoek blijkt dat zijn aangifte vals is.

Op de bewuste dag van de aanrijding was de weg van Santa Cruz naar Tanki Flip afgesloten bij de rotonde van Paradera vanwege de protestactie van de ambtenarenbonden (waaronder de politievakbond) tegen de regering. Croes was op dit moment de advocaat van de regering in het kort geding tegen vakbonden om de langdurige ambtenarenstaking te beëindigen.

Het verkeer werd gedirigeerd in de richting van Babijn. Croes had toen hij bij de rotonde kwam haast en wilde naar zijn kantoor rijden in de richting van Tanki Flip. Hij maakte dat kenbaar aan agent Maduro die daar het verkeer stond te regelen. Maduro had op dat moment zijn uniform niet aan en dus niet direct herkenbaar als agent. Toen hij Croes in de richting Babijn dirigeerde, reed de advocaat door. Maduro werd naar eigen zeggen door de auto aangereden en raakte lichtgewond. Croes ontkent dit en dacht dat een onbekende man hem te lijf wilde gaan.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_43552.php

[carpe noctem]

This is the story caesu was talking about yesterday - however, there is still not an English version.


Hendrik Croes en agent Maduro beiden vervolgd.
20 Jun, 2008, 18:43 (GMT -04:00)

ORANJESTAD — Het Openbaar Ministerie (OM) heeft naar aanleiding van de aanrijding van 16 maart op de rotonde te Paradera besloten zowel advocaat Hendrik Croes als politieagent Edgar Maduro aan te klagen.

Beiden worden gedagvaard om op 3 juli voor de rechter te verschijnen. Tijdens het uitgebreide onderzoek zijn diverse getuigen gehoord en hebben rechercheurs van de Landsrecherche alsmede leden van de technische recherche het incident gereconstrueerd. Na onderzoek heeft het OM besloten om Croes een drietal feiten ten laste te leggen. Het zwaarste strafbare feit is poging tot zware mishandeling van de politieagent. Verder wordt Croes verweten dat hij na aanrijding van Maduro is doorgereden zonder dat zijn identiteit behoorlijk kon worden vastgesteld. Justitie verwijt hem bovendien dat hij door zijn rijgedrag de verkeersveiligheid in gevaar heeft gebracht.

Het OM klaagt Maduro aan omdat hij naast zijn aangifte van mishandeling, ook aangifte tegen Croes heeft gedaan van poging tot doodslag. Op dit punt meent justitie dat uit het onderzoek blijkt dat zijn aangifte vals is.

Op de bewuste dag van de aanrijding was de weg van Santa Cruz naar Tanki Flip afgesloten bij de rotonde van Paradera vanwege de protestactie van de ambtenarenbonden (waaronder de politievakbond) tegen de regering. Croes was op dit moment de advocaat van de regering in het kort geding tegen vakbonden om de langdurige ambtenarenstaking te beëindigen.

Het verkeer werd gedirigeerd in de richting van Babijn. Croes had toen hij bij de rotonde kwam haast en wilde naar zijn kantoor rijden in de richting van Tanki Flip. Hij maakte dat kenbaar aan agent Maduro die daar het verkeer stond te regelen. Maduro had op dat moment zijn uniform niet aan en dus niet direct herkenbaar als agent. Toen hij Croes in de richting Babijn dirigeerde, reed de advocaat door. Maduro werd naar eigen zeggen door de auto aangereden en raakte lichtgewond. Croes ontkent dit en dacht dat een onbekende man hem te lijf wilde gaan.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_43552.php

Morning Rob!



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   Translation: Dutch » English
       Hendrik Croes and agent Maduro both prosecuted.
June 20, 2008, 18:43 (GMT -04:00)

ORANJESTAD - The Public Prosecutor (OM) responded to the accident on March 16 at the roundabout at Paradera decided both as a lawyer Hendrik Croes policeman Edgar Maduro to complain.

Both are summoned to appear on July 3 for the court to appear. During the extensive investigation, several witnesses heard and have investigators of the Landsrecherche as well as members of the technical recherche reconstructed the incident. After examining the OM has decided to Croes three facts dependants. The most serious offence was attempted grievous bodily injury of the policeman. Furthermore, he accused Croes after collision of Maduro is doorgereden without his identity could be properly identified. Justice accuses him also that he, by his behaviour on road safety at risk has brought.

The OM complains Maduro because other than its declaration of mistreatment, including declaration against Croes has done of attempted manslaughter. At this point Justice believes that the examination reveals that his declaration was false.

On the day conscious of the collision was the road from Santa Cruz to Tanki Flip completed in the rotunda of Paradera due to the protest of the ambtenarenbonden (including the police) against the government. Croes was at this time the lawyer of the government in the interim measures against trade unions to the protracted ambtenarenstaking to an end.

The movement was directed in the direction of Babijn. Croes had when he came to the roundabout hurry and wanted to drive his office in the direction of Tanki Flip. He made this known to Maduro agent who stood to regulate the movement. Maduro had at that time are not uniform and therefore not immediately recognizable as an agent. When he Croes in the direction Babijn conducted, drove the lawyer. Maduro was to say by own car aangereden and became slightly injured. Croes denies this and thought that an unknown man wanted him to tackle.

[Rob]

Morning Rob!



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morning bro bro!!!

thanks for that!

[caesu]

Gloomy political climate
20 Jun, 2008, 17:54 (GMT -04:00)

ORANJESTAD/AMSTERDAM – The leaving acting procurator-general in Aruba, Nico Jörg (62) is of the opinion that the Netherlands neglects her duty. Dutch politics don’t seem to be interested in the island. The Netherlands must also act firmer, but the PG has the feeling that politics The Hague would rather get rid of Aruba and the Antilles. “In the opinion of The Hague, there is always business here and that they also must give the islands a lot of money”.

Jörg says this in an interview with the Volkskrant on the eve of his return to the Netherlands, where he’s going to work again as attorney-general in the Supreme Court. In order to structurally improve the police, immigration, prison system, and tax services, the Netherlands must commit herself politically and financially as long as Aruba and the Antilles do not choose for total independency. “The Netherlands must step in more often; the majority of the population will acclaim that. There is of course a barrier to take actions in semi-independent countries like Aruba. There must be a serious problem, but the Charter allows that, and there are enough serious problems here.”

He says that the politicians are looking in the eyes of the voters and promise them jobs. “After the elections, the civil servants are replaced by loyal voters, friends and family members, whether they are suitable for the position or not. The dismissed civil servants are then sent home, and they keep their salary. It doesn’t matter which party takes office; the same thing happens in the next change of government.”

Also tenders do not always go transparently. “The investigation on this by the national detective appeared to be laborious. The island was too small when it was decided to actually prosecute former politicians after an investigation. This decision was taken purely professionally, thus being accused of ‘political persecution’ comes down very hard.”

He says that the investigation service that must work under difficult circumstances are doing pretty good work but not as much as is necessary. “I am under the impression that the OM comes up against a wall of resistance if they do more than just combating street criminality and get actively involved in investigation of the upperworld. It starts with a smear campaign in the media, nourished by politics. Corruption control is important for the country, because corruption slows down economic growth.”

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_43593.php

http://antilliaans.caribiana.nl/aruba/car20080620_jorg-vertrek
http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article1033266.ece/Procureur_Jorg__naargeestig_politiek_klimaat_op_Aruba
http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article1033290.ece/Ik_heb_het_gevoel_dat_Nederland_het_liefst_van_de_Antillen_af_wil

[SS]

Thanks Finngirl.

Let's see here, he is flying here to cancel or seek a refund of deposits and his son had not graduated yet?  Heck, even I didn't have to pay anything of any kind before my kid had graduated.  I think I smell another lie...he was here, but not for that.  They would have mailed it back to him. No reason to fly all the way here when he had much bigger problems on Aruba...not buying it.  Thanks again for letting me know...once again...hmmmmm.

NAIL ON HEAD ALERT! Darn right Lalas. All he would have had to do is make a phone call or send a written request to withdraw Joran from school. Plenty of time for that, Goon Child had just gotten out of high school. This was no emergency. If he flew to the States it was to get his evil son out of something much bigger than school.

LOL…$40,000 Scholarship…What refund?…

The $40,000 scholarship figure is the total amount.  It is distributed over four years at $10,000/year if he maintains a specific grade point average.  This is not a particularly large scholarship amount for a private college.

Want to add, per our experience, $10,000 per year can be on the high end for a private college, whether academic or athletic scholarship.  We're still paying loans, here, for the balance.  (of course, this is based on the one private college son attended)

I can empathize with you.  I've been there.  The small, noncompetitive, parochial colleges like St. Leo's are notorious for offering these scholarships to average students.  Urine was not a great student and I think his SATS were in the 500 range.  St. Peter's here in NJ almost always offers $5K to $10K a year to a student like this.  I think that they do this to compete with State college tuitions and to encourage attendance.

[wreck]

Thanks Finngirl.

Let's see here, he is flying here to cancel or seek a refund of deposits and his son had not graduated yet?  Heck, even I didn't have to pay anything of any kind before my kid had graduated.  I think I smell another lie...he was here, but not for that.  They would have mailed it back to him. No reason to fly all the way here when he had much bigger problems on Aruba...not buying it.  Thanks again for letting me know...once again...hmmmmm.

NAIL ON HEAD ALERT! Darn right Lalas. All he would have had to do is make a phone call or send a written request to withdraw Joran from school. Plenty of time for that, Goon Child had just gotten out of high school. This was no emergency. If he flew to the States it was to get his evil son out of something much bigger than school.

LOL…$40,000 Scholarship…What refund?…

The $40,000 scholarship figure is the total amount.  It is distributed over four years at $10,000/year if he maintains a specific grade point average.  This is not a particularly large scholarship amount for a private college.

Want to add, per our experience, $10,000 per year can be on the high end for a private college, whether academic or athletic scholarship.  We're still paying loans, here, for the balance.  (of course, this is based on the one private college son attended)

I can empathize with you.  I've been there.  The small, noncompetitive, parochial colleges like St. Leo's are notorious for offering these scholarships to average students.  Urine was not a great student and I think his SATS were in the 500 range.  St. Peter's here in NJ almost always offers $5K to $10K a year to a student like this.  I think that they do this to compete with State college tuitions and to encourage attendance.

Of course! Simply inflate your tuition by $10,000/yr and then give a $10,000 scholarship!

[Destiny]

My only child...is in grad school at a major university...whe has been on *full scholarship* since the day she grauated from high school...

the university she attends, the same since first day of college...pays her to attend school there...right now in her grad school program...they provide full medical/dental..on campus housing, not a room a house...and pay her $25,500.00 a year...plus what she makes being a teaching assit....now that's what I call a FULL scholarship Anita!

[wreck]

My only child...is in grad school at a major university...whe has been on *full scholarship* since the day she grauated from high school...

the university she attends, the same since first day of college...pays her to attend school there...right now in her grad school program...they provide full medical/dental..on campus housing, not a room a house...and pay her $25,500.00 a year...plus what she makes being a teaching assit....now that's what I call a FULL scholarship Anita!

Telecommunications, perhaps???

[2NJSons_Mom]

My only child...is in grad school at a major university...whe has been on *full scholarship* since the day she grauated from high school...

the university she attends, the same since first day of college...pays her to attend school there...right now in her grad school program...they provide full medical/dental..on campus housing, not a room a house...and pay her $25,500.00 a year...plus what she makes being a teaching assit....now that's what I call a FULL scholarship Anita!

Exactly, Destiny.  It's highly doubtful that St. Leo's offered Joran anything close academically or for athletics.  jmho

[Destiny]

My only child...is in grad school at a major university...she has been on *full scholarship* since the day she graduated from high school...

the university she attends, the same since first day of college...pays her to attend school there...right now in her grad school program...they provide full medical/dental..on campus housing, not a room a house...and pay her $25,500.00 a year...plus what she makes being a teaching assit....now that's what I call a FULL scholarship Anita!

Telecommunications, perhaps???

LOL...no.. neurobiology ...she's my lab rat...gonna clone me some day...so one of me can take a vacation...

[Rob]

My only child...is in grad school at a major university...whe has been on *full scholarship* since the day she grauated from high school...

the university she attends, the same since first day of college...pays her to attend school there...right now in her grad school program...they provide full medical/dental..on campus housing, not a room a house...and pay her $25,500.00 a year...plus what she makes being a teaching assit....now that's what I call a FULL scholarship Anita!

Telecommunications, perhaps???

good one LOL

[Destiny]

My only child...is in grad school at a major university...whe has been on *full scholarship* since the day she grauated from high school...

the university she attends, the same since first day of college...pays her to attend school there...right now in her grad school program...they provide full medical/dental..on campus housing, not a room a house...and pay her $25,500.00 a year...plus what she makes being a teaching assit....now that's what I call a FULL scholarship Anita!

Exactly, Destiny.  It's highly doubtful that St. Leo's offered Joran anything close academically or for athletics.  jmho

How right you are 2NJS...all that St. Loe's was offering Joran, imo...is a place to continue partying..and the Aruban *powers that be*  would pick up the tab...as long as the money kept coming in...Urine would be a perpetual student there...

[always 1]

Thats something to really be proud of in this day and age Destiny.  My only only son is getting his PHD and Im a Proud Rat, er Monkey!

[Destiny]

Thats something to really be proud of in this day and age Destiny.  My only only son is getting his PHD and Im a Proud Rat, er Monkey!

Always...we as parents are truly blessed...my child looks like Natalee...I think that is what got me so hard in the beginning of this case...It could so easily have been my child...Natalee was heading to her own bright future in academics....so sad...

[always 1]

Yes but God allows children to die for a reason.  Maybe Natalee's "cause" was to clean up Aruba so that another girl wouldnt suffer the way she did.  Natalee doesnt care if we find her body or not.  She wouldnt come back to earth if she could.  You know, "No Tears Up There".  And in the grand scheme of it all, you have helped Natalee in her cause by doing what you do.

[Destiny]

Yes but God allows children to die for a reason.  Maybe Natalee's "cause" was to clean up Aruba so that another girl wouldnt suffer the way she did.  Natalee doesnt care if we find her body or not.  She wouldnt come back to earth if she could.  You know, "No Tears Up There".  And in the grand scheme of it all, you have helped Natalee in her cause by doing what you do.

Natalee has brought us all together for a reason...

[Destiny]

So...doing some follow-up on the Eagle Beach assault case...the person I just spke with at the Oranjestad ALE...told me he has been told he cannot talk about the case...my contact there is scheduled to be in late tonight...so I'll call back then...see if I can pry someing out of that person...

[Maggie]

lala's.
And the fact that the trip to Miami was done very quickly. There was no notice, no one knew he was gone, then he was back very quickly before he was missed tells me there was something he had to "carry" and "deliver" in person. He didn't "take the boys" to Miami, or that would have been obvious and verifiable (Plus someone would have noticed all 3 at either airport or moving around together). It would not have been as quick and clandestine as it was. It had nothing to do with Joran's school, since anything related to do with that could be done by phone or mail (plus someone at the school would have mentioned it to someone-the case was all over the television in Miami as well).
To my knowledge, there has been no mention of him going to Miami since then.
Who was in Miami that he needed to meet?
What did he need to deliver in person?
What was going on directly before and after he went?
Did anything permanently disappear at that time?