Natalee Case Discussion #840 6/17/10 - 6/22/10

[msmarple]

@klaasend

Thank you very much, Klaasend.
I myself have no back up.

klassand's backups are backed up.

Which reminds me - should we be getting psychologically and technologically prepared for this new server?

[Anna]

@msmarple--an adult woman was just found in a suitcase in San Francisco a couple of weeks ago.  Evidently it is possible and has been done before.  Suitcase is the term used for what she was in.  There is a thread here somewhere.

[Anna]

Now about 36 hours before Joran goes before the judge.  I share the thought he will not do well an can't wait for the judge to start hearing Joran's nonsense as I think he will be very hard on Joran when Joran starts with his lying and changing his story.

All prisons are filled with people with psychological problems, Anita.  Any murderer has to have them to some extent.  Your little homicidal maniac is nothing special in that regard.  And, no, it doesn't count for anything.

Niters, Monkeys! 

[wreck]

I keep checking the Peruvian websites expecting to see headlines that say:

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT SE SUICIDA

I keep expecting to see that, or that someone murdered him.

I'm posting before I catch up............... I expect that even if he is murdered in prison -- the story will be that he "committed suicide". Either way -- Joran has a short shelf life!

[billb's daughter]

anita knew when she got the call from paulass that urine was involved with Natalee's disappearance....she was in the NL and took a couple days before coming back to ply her contacts for high cover before returning to aruba....
the whole family are heathens...no belief in any God...they were/are out for only themselves. anita played the mother covering for urine in the media...and paulass controlled the legal issues.
anita and paulass never showed real concern about Natalee and Beth/Dave...only their sporter...
they knew what a monster he is (after all - they enabled him). anita led the mis-info machine...
anita knew paulass progressed his career in money laundering, illegal govt contracts, drugs, human trafficking, and used the pimps to bring 'fresh meat' to the local judges/politicians/underbellies on aruba...the dutch in aruba ran the island and felt entitled to whatever they wanted....still do....
I have NO sympathy for anita......paulass is rotting in hell......anita will join him at some point, along with urine....like a family reunion.....
If hell is anything like Castro Castro prison, there will be a cell block of dutch/arubans/american traitors...it is only a matter of time.....

[Jonathan45]

@msmarple

Yes, Dead Daddy P did change his alibi. He brought his own whereabouts the night Natalee vanished back to his bedroom. 'I was asleep " he stated.

 Fact is that Joran logged in onto his computer at 10.30pm. So Dead daddy P didn't picked up Joran at 11.00pm but at 10.15pm by Mc Donalds.
Fact is that Joran logged in onto his computer at around 3.30am the night Natalee vanished. So no Mc Donalds pick up at 4.00am.

Two liars, two 'different' nightstories. Both trying to cover up their own horrorfying actions.
Joran misleading his dad and Dead Daddy P misleading Anita, his wife and helping his oldest son by mixing timeline data to create confusion.

[canoworms]

Thank you so much Klaasend and Jonathon,
I remember some elements of the original disappearance but -wow- stuff I skipped over or missed entirely are really helpful. Those pond pictures really take me back. Thanks so much! all of you! for jarring the old memory bank
Happy Fathers Day to all the dads My own father was murdered around this time, 1976, so I respect the pain of the families that are missing one daughter to hug her own dad.
Sleep well,
Selena

[canoworms]

Oh! you are all still here! Maybe I will make some coffee!

[Tylergal]

Anita has a BS degree. 

Recall from the time Greta went to their house with Beth that she was trying to shine the best light on her family, if only to impress Greta, by calling Paulus "the judge," (and we learned that he was only training to be a judge) and by lying and saying that Joran had "aced" his tests. 

There was no way that even had he "aced" his tests that she could have known that.  He had taken an AP test and any child and any mother of a child (I know that Beth would know) knows that AP test scores are not available for months.  Those tests are taken for college advancement around the end of school year and scores are available to the colleges to which the student requested somewhere in the late summer before entrance in Autumn. 

Another thing, she made it sound as though Paulus had called her and given her a heads-up as to what had happened, so she came home, but later in the conversation made it sound as though some official from Joran's school had called her and asked her to come home because Joran was "talking too much" at school about his evening with Natalee. 

Why would she discuss Natalee's underwear with Beth except to put out Beth's/Natalee's light and make her sporter son's shine a little brighter.  She and Julia Renfro set this up from the very beginning and the powers that be on the miserable ill-educated island were told to go along because they were forcefed some kind of BS indicating that Beth and Natalee were not of upstanding character and were trying to trash the Aruban middle class, which was anything but the truth.

So, Anita has a BS degree, a bullsh*t degree, but my understanding is that she has no college or university degree and she is only allowed to teach art in that little school because she has some training such as an associate degree or trade school work.  Teachers in that school are not required to meet the criteria required of an American school and perhaps many teachers go there to escape a "past" in the US or other countries, i.e., the Netherlands, etc.

[canoworms]

hi Tyler!
I remember the AP test scores discussion because my daughter took the AP's. If Anita was busy making then she probably wasn't doing any teaching at that time anyway....maybe the NL frowns on knocked up teachers who aren't married? I don't know...but by the time she was teaching ..."teaching", PVDS was ensconced in Aruba and that must have helped her land a position. Other than Missionary.
Ha

[msmarple]

I think The Netherlanlds' mediocre go to Aruba. And those who are forced to go there to avoid some kind of problem or embarrassment.

[canoworms]

*if anita was busy making babies*

[canoworms]

I think The Netherlanlds' mediocre go to Aruba. And those who are forced to go there to avoid some kind of problem or embarrassment.

EXACTLY....the Island of Exile. I said this, too. what a dump!

[msmarple]

Oh! you are all still here! Maybe I will make some coffee!

That sounds like a plan. Stay up all night and diss them all.

[canoworms]

Hahaha.
Seriously, I hope the judge doesthe right thing come Monday.

[canoworms]

Ok Ms M,
I bid you adieu.
S

[msmarple]

Tyler - You do know that you are Hemingwayesque, right?

I do mean that as a compliment, but I would hate to try to diagram some of your sentences!

[Tylergal]

PUBLIC LIVES; A Tough Guy Who Calls His Snarl a Purr
By JOYCE WADLER
Published: August 7, 1998

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THE day is warm, the news conference regarding a mother and son who are suspects in a potential murder case is dying down, and on a bench opposite State Supreme Court in Manhattan a wino is dozing.

It's the time of day, in short, for the private investigator to make an admission.

''I've been told -- not by my kids -- that I'm not as warm and affectionate and demonstrative as they would like me to be,'' says Les Levine, the lead defense investigator in the Kimes case, chatting on a park bench. ''I'm not a flowery guy. I don't squeeze people and tell them I love them. But people who know me refer to me as a rough, tough pussycat.''

A pussycat? A guy who hunts down drug dealers and roots through garbage to find evidence and wears a wire? Pussycat?

''That's the rough, tough part,'' Mr. Levine says. ''I've been known to sit there in the courtroom and have tears streaming down when the guilty verdict comes in. I was very upset when Marv Albert made his guilty plea. Very upset, very upset.''

It is perhaps this tenderness that explains some of Mr. Levine's remarks regarding Sante and Kenneth Kimes, the mother and son who are the prime suspects in the disappearance of Irene Silverman, a wealthy New York widow. Mr. Levine, retained by their lawyer, Mel A. Sachs, has suggested that there are other suspects the police have overlooked and that he will find them. He has also been telling the press that ''everybody has enemies.''

''Mrs. Kimes is very pleasant, very personable, a very caring mother,'' he said outside the courthouse this week, where mother and son pleaded not guilty to credit card fraud. ''Her son appears to be a very decent kid. There are other people that my office is looking to, that perhaps have much greater motive.''

Why did the Kimeses have Mrs. Silverman's passport in their possession at the time they were arrested?

''Oft-times people who work for me or my lady friends have my passport in their possession -- that's one scenario,'' Mr. Levine says.

There are a handful of private detectives whom the city's top crime lawyers turn to in a high-profile case. Les Levine -- who refuses to reveal his age (he looks as if he's in his late 50's) or his fee ($150 or $175 an hour, depending on the case, according to a lawyer he has billed) -- is one. A firm believer in the importance of image, he drives a white Jaguar with a phone, a billy club and LES PI plates. Mr. Levine has worked for the defense teams of Marv Albert, the art dealer Alec Wildenstein, and a Columbia graduate student, Oliver Jovanovic, who was convicted of sexually abusing a Barnard student he met on the Internet. Mr. Levine's work on the Peter Gatien case, which resulted in the nightclub owner's acquittal on drug charges, has been praised by defense lawyers around town.

''Part of it is the gift of gab, getting people to confide in you,'' says Benjamin Brafman, who defended Mr. Gatien. ''Les is a likable person, he has good people skills. He can be what you what him to be: tough, creative, talented, soft-spoken.''

OTHERS feel Mr. Levine gabs too much.

''There are some slimeball private investigators,'' says Beau Dietl, a former New York homicide detective who now has his own investigation company. ''Les does not have a slimeball reputation. But you got to do a full investigation on somebody before you can say they're innocent. To say this old lady had a lot of enemies -- she's 82, how many enemies can she have? Her grocery delivery boy if she didn't give him a tip?''

This is not the sort of remark likely to bother Mr. Levine, who seems to have been cheerfully immune from criticism since his youth. Raised in Manhattan Beach, Brooklyn, the son of a jeweler and a housewife, Mr. Levine graduated from New York University but was never particularly interested in school: ask him what he majored in and he cannot remember.

Mr. Levine spent five years in his father's jewelry business, because he did not want to disappoint him, but then fled because he could not bear working behind a desk. He joined a collection agency owned by two private investigators, and stayed with the company as it expanded into an equipment-recovery firm. There was money in, say, tracking stolen shipping containers, but not much satisfaction. Mr. Levine took the test for a private investigator's license and went into business.

One of his first assignments was to investigate the credibility of the model Marla Hanson, whose face had been slashed on the order of a man she had rejected.

''Repugnant as this sounds, I looked into Marla Hanson's background to see if she was not the image she portrayed,'' Mr. Levine says, in a rare admission of the rough nature of his work.

How does he live with that sort of thing?

''It's what I do,'' Mr. Levine says. ''I would much rather go after the background of the victim than say I didn't give everything to the client and the attorney.''

Mr. Levine has told reporters that he intends to find out what has happened to Mrs. Silverman, the missing widow. Is Mr. Levine aware that people are comparing that remark to O. J. Simpson's statement that he would find Nicole Simpson's killer?

''That's not true,'' Mr. Levine says. ''Twelve people believed it. That's not a slight factor.''

Photo: Les Levine knows the whole repertory of private investigator tricks. (Librado Romero/The New York Times)

[Jo-An]

I think The Netherlanlds' mediocre go to Aruba. And those who are forced to go there to avoid some kind of problem or embarrassment.

This is true.

[msmarple]

Is this guy - Les Levine - Anita's private investigator?

Let me guess. The answer to Stephany's murder lies in Mountain Brook.

Yawn.