Shantina"'Kat" Smiley & 8 yo son Azriel, WA Missing 3/13/10(BODY OF BOY FOUND)

[Wyks]

Hi Itaryl, and a warm to you! 

[Wyks]

[Wyks]

I wanted to say that I agree with those who think that Shantina and her son's deaths are not your "typical" accidental drownings.

The weird facts are just too many to ignore.

But, it looks as if her disappearance and the death of her son will never be prodded as it should, and maybe a third party will get away with murder.

Of course, there is no evidence to prove murder, but there are a few details of what happened that night that say "no way!"

No way. She had not told ANYONE that she intended to commit suicide, she left no suicide note, her life was improving and she seemed happy.

The only thing that "could" explain her decision to take her own life and her son's is the disease that her fiance said he thought he had, because of his diagnosing using Google.

She was (or is) an intelligent woman, and she had to know not to take online diagnosis seriously. She herself had gone through thinking she had a terminal disease to knowing that she was fine.

If the drownings happened because she had been drinking, or taking drugs, or because of a sudden bout of migraines or a stroke (or whatever,) she could've left traces and evidence behind. No drug paraphernalia, no more alcohol bottles than a half bottle of wine.

Of course, we may never know if she suffered from a sudden medical emergency, unless her body is recovered and an autopsy done.

I also think that there is a chance that Shantina got lost, again, after talking to the Williams and went on to another house to ask for directions or ask to use the phone.

Maybe someone there decided to take advantage of her and her son? Maybe she caught the eye of some criminal, while she was driving around looking for a phone, who hijacked the car, disposed of both victims and then drove the van to where it was found.

The case of the Olympia rapist last week, who went inside a car while the owner was in the store, and then when she got back to the car he jumped at her and make her drive to a remote location (not far from where Azriel was found) and raped her, comes to mind.

There's always the possibility of the "significant other" being involved, we've seen this in many cases before. In those cases the motives were infidelity, or large life insurance benefits, or children's custody/child support, or spousal control.

Shantina and Azriel's "typical" drownings may have other explanations, including a third party. I hope that the police in the area don't get lazy and ignore facts and fail to ask the right questions in order to really solve the case.

Hi Itaryl, do you by chance happen to have a link to where we can read more about that "Olympia rapist"??  Am hoping that LE is looking into this to see if there may be any connection! 

[Edward]

LOL.. Well we all hope she shows up alive..
She will sure be surprized to only see half of her sons ashes if she does...

He acts like life will be great when she or if she shows up alive..
Her son is dead.. Life will not be OK.

1/2 of the ashes.. I never herd of such a thing.. But that is just me and my opinion and my opinion does not make it one way or the other..

A what if Scenario..
Is it possible a boat came in and took them off and that is how the child ends up drowning ?
What I am suggesting is that a bad guy actually makes the approach by boat maybe even an associate of said rapist who could have been in hiding inside the van the whole time ?..
 The van brought to this location on purpose ?? They throw the child out of the boat and take mom to some undisclosed location.. ??

By the way ..I have never seen the inside of the van and I do not know for positive that there was no water inside of the van.. I was making that determination by what we have been reading.. I have no way of knowing if water was or was not inside of that van but if it was it would sure do damage to any other persons DNA who may have been inside that van along with the mom and the boy..

[Edward]

What a beautiful woman.

[Wyks]

Agreed Edward!  And your 'what if' scenario is very plausible.  Wonder if we'll ever know what happened? 

As to the van, it was reported in one or more news articles that the van 'had water up to the seats'.  Now whether that was just up to the seat cushions or all the way to the top of the seats wasn't made clear.  However in an early report, the one who reported the van in the water that morning said that the van 'was nearly submerged'.  So I dunno who/what to believe, there have been so many different details reported here and there.  Could just be rotten reporting, dunno.  It's frustrating when trying to pin down the actual details.   

From reports by others on different message boards, high tide was about 6 am that morning.  So if they did fall asleep in the van, they could have awoken early to water coming into the van.  It's also been reported that there was hardly any moon out that night, so I'm wondering if it was still totally dark at 6 am when the water came into the van? 

In any case, in one of the latest news articles, LE has said something to the effect that altho they aren't considering foul play, he doesn't believe that those items found 1/4 down the beach 'washed ashore'.  That's because of the differing weight etc of those items.  He believes they were placed there in some way.  And also that those items were found on the beach just below those steep steps leading up from the beach to that home where the pounding/banging was heard in the middle of the night.  The owner of that home said that if anyone fell off those steps they would die. 

So with all that in mind, my thinking is that Shantina/Azriel didn't just fall asleep in the van and get washed out to sea.  The above seems to place them both 1/4 a mile down the beach from the van, near those steep steps.  This could be the point where Azriel gets washed out to sea somehow.  My own thoughts on this are that they were being chased by someone, either on/near those steps, were throwing those items at their pursuer, one or both fell, and when high tide came in, washed the body/bodies out to sea. 

See pic of those steep steps in next post.

[Wyks]

[Wyks]

Here's the link to that map/pic of the steep steps above.  On the map at this link you can scroll around and see the area where the van was found, a 1/4 mile southwest of these steps. 

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rvsh5k4rtn5v&scene=4850557&lvl=2&sty=b&where1=Zangle%20Rd%20NE,%20Olympia,%20WA%2098506

[Tracygirl]

hmmm interesting. No idea about this case anymore. I do know however, if I went missing and god forbid my son....(cant say it) and my husband, the kids step dad had his ashes split up, well I would pretty much want to split him up. Sorry but I find that very disturbing and to be honest, selfish of any parent who would want to do that in order to have the ashes. Some things you just cant divide, a child's ashes is one. jmo

[Tracygirl]

Here's the link to that map/pic of the steep steps above.  On the map at this link you can scroll around and see the area where the van was found, a 1/4 mile southwest of these steps. 

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rvsh5k4rtn5v&scene=4850557&lvl=2&sty=b&where1=Zangle%20Rd%20NE,%20Olympia,%20WA%2098506

I can't tell where a 1/4 mile would be. Would you mind doing a map that shows where the van was to where this house is? Sorry, I am directionally challenged.

[Edward]

Very upper end homes.

[Tracygirl]

O/T
If any monkey has time, would you mind checking out the thread for Jacob Cabinaw under the missing persons folder? Thanks

[MuffyBee]

I can't tell from here, but those don't look like steep steps as much as they do a tram.  I've lived in recreational lake areas and some of the homes have trams to get up and down something that steep to get to a dock/boat house and etc..  Usually if there are stairs, they are zig zagged and or with landings every so often.  jmho

[AmandaReckonwith]

I searched (via Bing) and at the time that satellite map was made, there's only 1 set of stairs up the cliff. But I don't think that is the Grimmer home.

[AmandaReckonwith]

Using Wyks link you can maneuver the map to see just how steep it is from these particular homes down to the beach, almost a straight drop, no slope.

This set of stairs leads up to a deck first.

Does anyone know the addy of the Grimmers? I'd like to know for sure if that is their home.

[AmandaReckonwith]

Found it.

The big home with stairs to beach is not the Grimmers. They do live right nearby but not on the beach.

On the map, Grimmer home might not have been built yet? It shows trees, lots of trees. But it would be right near where IV Ct and IV Dr intersect.... and Grimmers are on Island View Drive.

[Tracygirl]

Thank you for posting the map. It doesn't seem far from the steps. Now are the grimmers the same people who had a 3AM knocking at their door? Do we know where that house is?

[labubske]

8520 Island View Dr...@ Amandareckonwith

[Itaryl Moosee]

I mentioned the story of the rapist as something to be thought of when developing all kinds of theories of what could've happened... not as fact.

Here's one of the news articles about the rapist thing. It is actually in Tacoma, but he made her drive South towards Olympia. I figure the guy knows the area and maybe it wasn't the first time he got into a woman's car and made her drive away to rob her or assault her.

http://www.nwcn.com/news/Attacker-hid-in-womans-car-89086777.html

Man hides in car, assaults woman near Tacoma park
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STACEY MULICK; Staff writer
Published: 03/25/1012:05 am | Updated: 03/25/10 2:49 pm

Tacoma police were searching Wednesday for a man who hid in a woman’s car and sexually assaulted her Tuesday near Wapato Park.

The woman told police she didn’t know the man, officer Andrew Hankins said.

The incident was reported at 12:14 p.m. The woman told officers she got into her unlocked car in the 6200 block of South Wapato Street and the attacker was already inside the vehicle.

“She heard something in the rear of the car, turned around and he was there,” Hankins said.

The man told her to drive away, Hankins said, and when she stopped near Wapato Park off South 72nd Street he sexually assaulted her. He got out of the car and was last seen running north.

Officers and a police dog searched the area but did not find the attacker. He was described as white and in his mid-30s. He wore blue jeans and a black hooded sweatshirt.

Stacey Mulick, staff writer
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/03/25/1122558/tacoma.html?storylink=rss

[Itaryl Moosee]

The knocking on the garage door is one of the most puzzling facts about this case.

Had it been Shantina or her son knocking, the dogs should've picked up the scent the next day... but they didn't.

So, we can assume it weren't them knocking on the guys garage door. And, if it weren't them knocking in the wee hours of the morning, who was?

My opinion only.