Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10

[sharon]

WOW WOW WOW

I have to leave the house for the day -- but just caught the news.

WOW WOW WOW

I need to read up tonight before I form an opinion.

My first question however --if he 'hit' her out of anger because she violated his personal space (I watched the Today show) --  when did her pants fall off??

My lingering question is still how could Stephany not know who he was in the casino?

Oh boy. Here we go.

5 years. I hope it is finally unraveling.

I STAND WITH THE GIRLS and their families
Justice for Natalee and Stephany

[Nut44x4]

Yes to MIP6

OMG, I cannot believe that Valentijn is out partying right when they discovered his brother murdered again.  Wonder if Anita and Sabastian are there with him?  Sick.

Thanks Klaas, I thought so too.

The ISA graduation was Saturday and it looks like a lot of the seniors went to the Confessions club to party afterward.  Those are the pictures with Valentijn.  He was at the graduation also....didn't see Anita or Sebastian in that group of pics.

I thought it was said he goes to Emerson College in Boston. What college kid goes back to the graduation parties of the high school "babies"? This is a weird family.

School's Out For Summer! .... must partaaaaaayyyyyyyy!

I suppose Joran thinks by confessing he can't be charged, as we have seen so many times in the past. Me thinks He thinks WRONG, lol.

[Tibrogargan]

This new murder case has been mentioned in our TV and radio newscasts since it happened .  Now the confession has made our newspapers :

Van der Sloot 'confesses to murder of Lima woman'

    * By staff writers
    * From: NewsCore
    * June 08, 2010 5:27PM

JORAN van der Sloot has confessed to the May 30 murder of Lima woman Stephany Flores Ramirez.

A high-ranking Peruvian government official told NBC News that van der Sloot had confessed, following reports in the La Republica newspaper that said he broke Flores' neck after she used his laptop without his permission and found out he was involved in the murder of the American.

According to the newspaper the Dutchman, who is also the prime suspect in US teen Natalee Holloway's 2005 disappearance, explained that his anger exploded and said: "I did not want to do it. The girl intruded into my private life."

Police said van der Sloot met the 21-year-old Flores, the daughter of a Peruvian former race car driver, while playing poker at a casino.

On Saturday, they released security footage of the two of them entering his room but only he left. Her battered body was found in the hotel room two days later with her neck broken.

Van der Sloot was detained in Chile on Thursday, and police handed him over to the Peruvians at the border town of Tacna on Friday.

Investigators said he left Lima the day after the murder for Chile in 1287km taxi ride to the border.

Van der Sloot was also at the centre of another criminal inquiry in 2005, when he was named as a key suspect in the disappearance of Holloway, an 18-year-old US student visiting the Dutch-run Caribbean island of Aruba, who was also murdered on May 30.

In that case, van der Sloot was twice arrested, but charges were never brought against him because of lack of evidence. Holloway's body was never found.

Van der Sloot was later videotaped saying Holloway died after suffering a seizure and that an acquaintance helped him dump the body into the sea.

But later said he had made the comments under the influence of marijuana.

Van der Sloot was charged on Thursday in the US for trying to extort $250,000 from Holloway's family in exchange for disclosing the location of her body and describing how she died.

Peruvian President Alan Garcia said Friday that van der Sloot would first have to be tried for Flores' death before any extradition request could be considered.

The maximum sentence for murder in Peru is 25 years prison.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/world/van-der-sloot-confesses-to-murder-of-lima-woman/story-e6freoox-1225877136823

[crazybabyborg]

In regard to "green" bruises:  a bruise is caused when trauma to an area causes blood to gather at the spot of trauma, initially, the bruise is red for a few minutes; as the blood loses oxygen, the bruise turns blue for a few days; as the blood breaks down, the bruise turns green for a few days and then yellow for a few days before the bruise goes away.

Thanks for the explanation....mine just seem to go from purple to yellow...never seen green...

so those may have been the first blows ? knocking her down of maybe dragging her across something hard...just thinking out loud

I just woke up and am many pages behind...forgive if this has been addressed and I have not seen it yet.....

All of the above (as darleen described) would be from a living person ... but once a person is dead there is no blood flow. The stages of bruising still happen after death?? This seems impossible, but maybe not.

I have some personal experience with this one, Nut. Mom's face was badly bruised, and she was killed instantly (dead on the scene) from a car wreck. When the providers get here, I'll ask how that happens. Blood will stop pumping when the heart stops, but blood can flow from an injury. Generally there isn't much blood unless a person's heart is beating.

[Sharon/Tx]

Remember when the Kalpoes and Joran were recorded in the police car?  Remember when they mentioned Joran "hitting the girl?"  God, I hope he is stopped. 

[Bearlyhere]

BRUTAL ANIMAL WITHOUT ANY MERCY WHATSOEVER

10 Punches to the face - shattering her nose and mouth.

5 Tennis racquet blows to the head, neck and all over the body

She could only be recognized by her hair.

----

Please do not ever forget this post.

Joran is a monster.

The problem is that our kids and our women are looking for monsters so they can avoid them.  We need to teach them that they are people who act like monsters, are often very charming, appealing, and appear harmless.  Just about everyone is a potential monster.  It sounds crazy, but it's true. 

Don't be alone with anyone who you don't know or who wants to isolate you, taking you away from your surroundings.  Don't leave your friends and always make someone the DD.  Don't let your friends go off with anyone.  They may be angry at you tonight, but they will be alive in the morning.

But then, what about the people that we do know that suddenly act like monsters?  How can you spot a monster, when they look like people?

[crazybabyborg]

Remember when the Kalpoes and Joran were recorded in the police car?  Remember when they mentioned Joran "hitting the girl?"  God, I hope he is stopped. 

I think he's stopped, Sharon. I really do. I don't recall anybody saying Joran hit Natalee in the car recording, but it's been a while since I've looked at it. I remember a reference to Satish hitting a girl with a car. I also remember them saying if they find her, "they'll see that sh*t", which was probably a reference to physical abuse.

Joran broke Stephany's neck with his bare hands, IMO. The bruises around her neck show that......... again, my opinion, but I'm going to make the docs here look at the diagrams when they get to the clinic.

When I think of killing someone like that, I shudder. I believe he'd done it before and liked the power and thrill of it. I think he murdered Natalee similarly. I hate it, but I think it.

[Blonde]

Sorry I jumped ahead and just woke up and saw this

WHAT

Van Der Sloot Confesses To Peru Slaying
Stephany Flores' Battered Body Found In Hotel

POSTED: 12:41 am EDT June 8, 2010
UPDATED: 6:50 am EDT June 8, 2010

LIMA, Peru -- Dutchman Joran Van der Sloot, long the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of a U.S. teen in Aruba, has confessed to killing a young Peruvian woman in his Lima hotel room last week, a police spokesman said.

Peru's chief police spokesman, Col. Abel Gamarra, told The Associated Press that Van der Sloot admitted under police questioning Monday that he killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores on May 30.

The broadcaster America Television reported that Van der Sloot killed Flores in a rage after learning she had looked up information about his past on his laptop. It said it had access to details of the confession but did not cite its source.

Gamarra would not provide details of the confession. Nor would the chief of Peru's criminal police, Gen. Cesar Guardia, when the AP reached him by telephone. Guardia said only police director Gen. Miguel Hidalgo could authorize the information to be divulged. Hidalgo's cell phone rang unanswered.

Asked about the Van der Sloot confession, a brother of the victim, Enrique Flores, told the AP "we are not going to make any comment. This is in the hands of the police, of the justice system."

Van der Sloot's confession came on his third full day in Peruvian police custody, on the eve of a planned trip to the hotel in which he was to participate in a reconstruction of the events leading to Flores' slaying, Gamarra said.

Flores, a business student, was found beaten to death, her neck broken, in the 22-year-old Dutchman's hotel room. Police said the two met playing poker at a casino.

Police released video on Saturday from hotel security cameras that shows the two entering Van der Sloot's hotel room together at 5 a.m. Saturday and Van der Sloot leaving alone four hours later with his bags. Police say Van der Sloot left the hotel briefly at 8:10 a.m., returning to the room with two cups of coffee and bread purchased across the street at a supermarket.

Gamarra said the case would now be turned over to prosecutors to present formal charges and Van der Sloot will be assigned to a prison while he awaits trial. Murder convictions carry a maximum of 35 years in prison in Peru and it was not immediately clear if a confession could lead to a reduced sentence.

Van der Sloot remains the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, then 18, on the Caribbean resort island of Aruba while she was celebrating her high school graduation.

He was arrested twice in the case -- and gave a number of conflicting confessions, some in TV interviews -- but was freed for lack of evidence.

A fixture on true crime shows and in tabloids after Holloway's disappearance, he gained a reputation for lying -- even admitting a penchant for it -- and also exhibited a volatile temper. In one Dutch television interview he threw a glass of wine in a reporter's eyes. In another, he smashed a glass of water against a wall in a fury.

The 6-foot-3 (191-centimeter) -tall Van der Sloot had been held at Peruvian criminal police headquarters since arriving Saturday in a police convoy from Chile, where he was captured on Thursday.

He had crossed into Chile on Monday, nearly a day after leaving the Lima hotel -- five years to the day after Holloway's disappearance.

Flores' battered body was found on the floor in the room more than two days later. Lima's deputy medical investigator, Victor Tejada, told the AP on Monday that she was killed by blows with a blunt object, probably the tennis racket found in the hotel room.

Guardia told the AP her body was found face down and clothed with no indication of sexual assault.

In video taken of the Dutchman that was broadcast Sunday by a TV channel, Peruvian police were seen searching Van der Sloot's belongings in his presence. They were shown pulling out of his backpack a laptop, a business-card holder and 15 bills in foreign currency.

Chilean police who questioned Van der Sloot on Thursday said he declared himself innocent of the Lima slaying but acknowledged knowing Flores.

Van der Sloot was represented by a state-appointed lawyer during Saturday's questioning and both a Dutch Embassy official and his U.S.-based attorney told the AP on Sunday that he was seeking to hire his own counsel.

The suspect's father, a former judge and attorney on the Dutch Caribbean island of Aruba, died in February. Van der Sloot has two brothers.

There were indications Van der Sloot may have been traveling on money gained through extortion.

The day of his arrest in Chile, Van der Sloot was charged in the United States with trying to extort $250,000 from Holloway's family in exchange for disclosing the location of her body and describing how she died.

U.S. prosecutors say $15,000 was transferred to a Dutch bank account in his name on May 10. He arrived in Peru four days later, his visit coinciding with the runup to a June 2-5 Latin America Poker Tour tournament with a $930,000 prize pool.

Tournament organizers said Van der Sloot did not sign up to participate in the event.

Van der Sloot is an avid gambler and was known in Aruba to frequent its casino hotels, one of which was lodging Natalee Holloway.

In a lengthy 2006 interview with Greta Van Susteren on Fox News, Van der Sloot described drinking shots of rum with Holloway, whom he said he met while playing poker at an Aruba casino, then taking her to a beach and leaving her there around 3:30 a.m.

Two years later, a Dutch television crime reporter captured hidden-camera footage of Van der Sloot saying that after Holloway, drunk, collapsed on the beach while the two were kissing he asked a friend to dump her body in the sea.

"I would never murder a girl," he said.

That interview prompted authorities in Aruba to reopen the case, but Van der Sloot later said he made up the whole story and he was not charged.

The crime reporter, Peter de Vries -- the victim of the wine-throwing incident -- reported later in 2008 that Van der Sloot was recruiting Thai women in Bangkok for sex work in the Netherlands.

___

Associated Press Writers Carla Salazar in Lima, Frank Bajak in Bogota, Colombia, and Arthur Max in Amsterdam contributed to this report.

http://www.wfsb.com/news/23825980/detail.html

[SunnyinTX]

OHMYGAWD!  Prayers are answered. Justice still lives!!

[Puzzler]

Jean Caseraz (sp?), who's in Peru, says that in Joran's room was found a woman's small white leather purse with jewels on it and in videos of Stephany no white purse is seen.

Who's purse is it?  Has he been stealing purses for money?

[texasmom]

Kudos to texasmom who tracked down Mr. Party Boy...

Living it up la vida loca style - while Jordy takes an F-DUMP in Peru!

Viva Arooba!

These are from the ISA Graduation earlier that evening.



Rand Zeolla, Valentijn van der Sloot, Olivia Zeolla, Natalie van Hamburg, Mashelle and Rick Zeolla.  He is the former GM of the Marriott and long time AHATA board member.  iirc he was President of the AHATA board at one time.  He is now the GM at the Marriott in Cairo Egypt.



Natalie van Hamburg and Valentijn van der Sloot

In 2005 I believe that Natalie was Valentijn's girlfriend.  She and her family left the island in 2007 iirc, but they return often and all of these families are very close even spending holiday's together.

[Nut44x4]

If she saw anything on his laptop, imo...it would be something recent. She didn't have a lot of time to dig for stuff.

Scenerio:
The laptop was on w/ screensaver covering screen...Joran goes out for drinks...she touches laptop and screensaver goes poof and TADA ---
On laptop screen is info re: the new charges brought forth by Alabama/FBI, etc. re: extortion, etc., in Natalee's case.  She knows he is a 'wanted man'. Just then, Joran comes back and catches her reading it and flips out...

Not sure I believe the laptop confession, but the above could have happened (or something similar), if true.

[Ono]

So, when Anita gets to Peru, she will be greeted with the fact that Joran has already confessed.

Do we know "when" Anita is due to arrive in Peru?

The shriek heard round the world.  If that doesn't plug up that oil leak, nothing will!


LOL!   

[Blonde]

Glenda Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:47 pm       

JoJoe wrote:
He came back into the room after getting the coffee, saw her on his comp and flipped. he had private stuff about Natalee on his comp, maybe he kept journals on there about what had happened and what he had done. She saw it and he couldn't let it get out into the public so he had to shut her up, he just didn't plan on getting caught. But now that he did there gonna see whats on the comp anyways, He has no other choice but to confess. I see it happening the way he said. But thats just a thought from me on how this confession could makes since. IDK



Then he gave up his computer to the Chilean Authorities .... who gave it to Peru... Sorry, but the only way you can delete something from your computer is to burn it and throw it in the ocean, otherwise, the FBI can see everything you've ever done, written or messaged and JORAN KNOWS THIS, and SO DOES THE DUTCH AUTHORITIES who have had access to the suspects computer all along... Will they step in? JMO he set them up to help him.

Hmmm  this may be right he opened the door to the Netherlands. He rather take the his prison time in Netherland for the Death of Natalee instead of Peru for Stephany 

[seemeatthebeach]

If she saw anything on his laptop, imo...it would be something recent. She didn't have a lot of time to dig for stuff.

Scenerio:
The laptop was on w/ screensaver covering screen...Joran goes out for drinks...she touches laptop and screensaver goes poof and TADA ---
On laptop screen is info re: the new charges brought forth by Alabama/FBI, etc. re: extortion, etc., in Natalee's case.  She knows he is a 'wanted man'. Just then, Joran comes back and catches her reading it and flips out...

Not sure I believe the laptop confession, but the above could have happened (or something similar), if true.

Natalie's dad might have been correct when he threw out his theory.....
May 30th, the 5 year anniversary of Natalie's disappearance/murder, many media websites had coverage of this...started about 8am US time. Joran went for coffee at 8:15am Peru time (9:15am US time)
So it is possible if she googled Joran, the latest news would come up first......poor girl couldn't run fast enough to escape the clutches of the monster murderer!

MURDERER!!!!!!!  YES, ANITA, JORAN IS A MURDERER!!

[Ono]

OHMYGAWD!  Prayers are answered. Justice still lives!!

Ditto !!!!!!

[Blonde]

Glenda Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:27 am       

darleenofalabama wrote:
Well, Glenda, I think we all know he knows quite a bit about throwing things in the ocean. That said, I've heard that you actually made a twisted statement blaming Beth, indirectly, for his being able to be in Peru, therefore available to murder Stephany. If that's true, you can just take that back. That's a sick thing to say and you know it's not true, so do the decent thing and apologize; apologize even if you didn't mean it to sound that way because plenty of people think you did.



I apologize, even though your accusation is not accurate from this post. Bottom line, Beth is not responsible for what happened to Natalee or Stephany.[/color]

[Puzzler]

IMO she didn't see anything on Joran's computer

I can't imagine all the "bad" stuff he has on it

With all that bad stuff I just believe he would have a "password"

Stephany wouldn't know his password

Neither would Peru LE....as soon as they had to ask for the password...I hope the lightbulb came on and they realized Joran is lying about Stephany and the computer.

Of course he would say he left it up, but I wouldn't believe that for one second.

[Puzzler]

WOW WOW WOW

I have to leave the house for the day -- but just caught the news.

WOW WOW WOW

I need to read up tonight before I form an opinion.

My first question however --if he 'hit' her out of anger because she violated his personal space (I watched the Today show) --  when did her pants fall off??

My lingering question is still how could Stephany not know who he was in the casino?

Oh boy. Here we go.

5 years. I hope it is finally unraveling.

I STAND WITH THE GIRLS and their families
Justice for Natalee and Stephany

There's been reports that Stephany's sister had talked to her about Joran....some time before the poker tournament time

[Port Valerie]

Jean Caseraz (sp?), who's in Peru, says that in Joran's room was found a woman's small white leather purse with jewels on it and in videos of Stephany no white purse is seen.

Who's purse is it?  Has he been stealing purses for money?

Earlier it was said that Stephany had a small white purse with "Flower Power" on it.