Trial of George Zimmerman in the Death of Trayvon Martin #5 6/19/13 - 7/2/13

[MuffyBee]

http://www.thepublicopinion.com/news/associated_press/national/us/article_e0880747-0064-5d4b-bfae-819b6a2f1bf7.html
5 key moments from first week of Zimmerman trial
June 29, 2013

 
MARTIN'S PARENTS ON RACE
Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, Martin's parents, held a news conference Thursday in which their attorney said they didn't want race injected into the trial. Some reporters asked why the nation's most prominent black civil rights leaders had been invited to Sanford to demand Zimmerman's arrest if race wasn't an issue. But attorney Daryl Parks said at this stage of the case, it shouldn't be a factor.
 

[flamom]

I would like to get others opinions ...

After the first week of this murder trail of George Zimmerman, who thinks that the Prosecution has put forth a case that has not only proved "reason doubt" but also may have proved that Travon was the aggressor and GZ's story of self defense is believable as he was being pummeled by TV? I do not doubt that GZ followed TV, but once the two came in contact and the altercation started, GZ was getting is butt whooped.

I would actually go so far as to say that if GZ was not carrying a gun and had shot and killed TV, that it may be Martin on trial for beating Zimmerman senseless.

Would like to see how others think the prosecution's case went this weeK

If this is all they have, GZ will be found not guilty...

[grace-land]

http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2013/06/29/2453439/former-tri-city-man-to-testify.html

Former Tri-City man to testify in George Zimmerman trial
Published: June 29, 2013 

A key figure in the trial of George Zimmerman, charged with murdering Florida teenager Trayvon Martin, has a Mid-Columbia connection.

Dr. Shiping Bao performed Martin's autopsy and is expected to testify before a national TV audience this week.

Bao lived in the Tri-Cities from 1995 to 2004, and was an important member of the team at Washington State University's U.S. Transuranium and Uranium Registries in Richland.

"He was an outstanding researcher," said the program's former director, Ron Kathren. "I used to say that if anybody in our group was going to be a candidate for a Nobel Prize, it was going to be him."

Bao was born and raised in China, where he earned a medical doctorate and a graduate degree in radiation medicine. He came to the United States as a young man, working as a researcher for three years in Tallahassee, Fla., before Kathren recruited him.

 
The big case

In August 2011, Bao took his current job with Volusia County's medical examiners office, near his home in Daytona Beach, Fla.

The office also is responsible for autopsies in nearby Seminole County, which would become the site of one of the country's more controversial shootings in recent years.

On Feb. 27, 2012, Bao performed an autopsy on Martin, 17, a day after the unarmed black teen was killed in Sanford, Fla. Bao determined that Martin died of a gunshot wound to the chest from intermediate range. He ruled the shooting a homicide.

At the time, Bao thought the autopsy was routine. He had no clue the young man he was looking at would, in death, become a worldwide figure, discussed by President Obama and numerous celebrities.

"It was just another case," he said. "I finished the autopsy in one-and-a-half hours. I typed it up in one hour."

 
Based on pre-trial questioning, Bao said Zimmerman's attorneys are likely to try to attack his credibility when he takes the stand in the trial, which he's been told will happen either Wednesday or Friday.

He expects the defense to question why he left the Tarrant County Medical Examiner's Office in Fort Worth after three years there.

The reason he moved was simple -- he fell in love with Daytona while interviewing for the job of associate medical examiner, he said. He remembers staying in a high-rise hotel overlooking the beach.
 

[sailcat]

A question I posted on the blog: I don’t understand the double standard. George Zimmerman had the right to self-defense, but Trayvon Martin didn’t? He was in a place he had every right to be in, and was minding his own business. He was being chased by a man with no uniform and no badge. I personally don’t believe he jumped GZ. But what if he had? He didn’t have the right to “stand his ground” or defend himself?

[flamom]

A question I posted on the blog: I don’t understand the double standard. George Zimmerman had the right to self-defense, but Trayvon Martin didn’t? He was in a place he had every right to be in, and was minding his own business. He was being chased by a man with no uniform and no badge. I personally don’t believe he jumped GZ. But what if he had? He didn’t have the right to “stand his ground” or defend himself?

  

[Red]

Although Zimmerman is not using "stand your ground" as a defense, instead using "self-defense", read the following. It is an interesting read.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/09/jn.aspx

The location: Florida. The victim: an unarmed black youth. The suspect: an older Hispanic male. The confrontation: an argument escalates between the men, leaving the black youth dead. The result: no charges are filed against the suspect.

Although these facts resemble the confrontation between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla., on Feb. 26, this incident actually took place in Tampa, Fla., on Nov. 21, 2011, when Wathson Adelson fought with Alcisviades Polanco over a traffic incident. Feeling threatened by the unarmed Adelson, Polanco repeatedly stabbed Adelson with an icepick. Adelson died three weeks later. Charges were not filed against Polanco, with the State Attorney's office determining that they could not adequately refute Polanco's "Stand Your Ground" claim of self-defense, a law that gives suspects a legally viable defense to kill first and ask questions later.
 

[Red]

A question I posted on the blog: I don’t understand the double standard. George Zimmerman had the right to self-defense, but Trayvon Martin didn’t? He was in a place he had every right to be in, and was minding his own business. He was being chased by a man with no uniform and no badge. I personally don’t believe he jumped GZ. But what if he had? He didn’t have the right to “stand his ground” or defend himself?

   

The 2012 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI
CRIMES

Chapter 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

View Entire Chapter
  
776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.012.html
 
All Justifiable use of force: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776ContentsIndex.html&StatuteYear=2012&Title=%2D%3E2011%2D%3EChapter%20776

To answer both of your questions, see the Florida law above.

The reason why both sides are trying to determine who was on top and the aggressor makes a difference. It is George Zimmerman who is on trial, not Trayvon Martin. It has been proved by multiple witnesses that TV was on top and as John Good testified TM was straddling GZ and "ground & pound" him MME style.
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2013/06/29/george-zimmerman-murder-trial-prosecution-witness-john-good-delivers-major-blow-to-states-case-against-george-zimmerman-state-witness-says-trayvon-martin-on-top-zimmerman-yelled-for-help-video/

If there had been testimony that TM on the phone with Rachel Jeantel that if he had said he was afraid, GZ had a gun, etc, then you might have a point. Right or wrong, it is difficult for a "reasonable" person to believe that a larger individual (TM) was in fear of GZ without the fact that he knew Zimmerman had a gun. In fact, TV just referred to him as a racial slur, a "creepy ass cracker" which makes most every one believe he was being dismissive of Zimmerman.

Now, if TV was 13 years old like the picture that the MSM put forth to falsely present to facts of the case to the American public and he was that much smaller and younger than GZ, than maybe, you could claim TM's self defense.

I will go one step further. Had TM pulled the gun away from GZ and/or the gun went off and killed GZ instead, I believe and I 100% think the jury would say that Martin acted in self-defense.

However, just being followed when you are the larger individual is not grounds to assault someone. Without knowing what was said between the two prior to the deadly confrontation, we are left to eye and ear witness testimony and all of it makes TM the aggressor on top of GZ.

Folks, what a reasonable person would have done would have been to walk to a public area, called 911 themselves if they were afraid, instead of Rachel and asked, what do you want? You don't stop and confront someone with attitude and then get into a fight with them. That is a recipe for disaster.

Thant is why I say, whoever had been killed in this sad and tragic case, could have been able to defend themselves legally claiming "self defense". There are no winners here.

[flamom]

Good points Red and I do agree somewhat. But just supposee... a reasonable person would have called 911 and waited for the police to arrive rather than follow a suspicious person into a poorly lit or dark area. I do not think either one of these guys acted reasonably after the confrontation... but TM is not here and the other reactor sits in court. I am glad I am not on this jury..

[flamom]

BTW, I believe GZ felt emboldened somewhat because he was carrying. Betcha he would not have followed if he was unarmed..

[Red]

BTW, I believe GZ felt emboldened somewhat because he was carrying. Betcha he would not have followed if he was unarmed..

It is a difficult case and I believe both acted unreasonable; however, in the heat of the moment when the confrontation occurred, GZ was getting his butt kicked by the larger TM.

I am not sure if I buy the emboldened argument. Being a gun owner and carrier, a gun only works when there is distance between you and your assailant. Had he been, he would have pulled the gun on Martin before the struggle. If he had, I do not believe TM would have attacked him, he would have run or froze.

What I would be interested to hear is how this situation was different from the other 911 calls that GZ made when as he had previously stated that they always get away. How did they previously get away? Did he stop following or did the other individuals never stop and kept walking away. Is was the confrontation that lead to this volatile situation and two people that should never have come in contact with one another.

Although it was not allowed into evidence, we know that TM was no choir boy. The only glimpse into TM's mindset was his comment that GZ was a "creepy ass cracker". Which, had GZ called TM a "N" word the death penalty would have been asked for and he would have been charged with a hate crime as well.

But the answers to all of your questions regarding self defense rests on who has to defend themselves in a court of law.

[iluvmua]

Someone said that the prosecutors have shown GZ' mugshot. Is this true? I'm SO hoping they bring up GZ's past history so the defense can bring up Trayvon's.

A LOT of people think that TM's Facebook & Twitter are irrelivent BUT it goes to the frame of mind of Trayvon and it shows that he is not the innocent 13 year old child his family want people to believe.

As for the case, I Hope the judge does not throw it out (although she should) I want to see the defense go after every single person (Tracy, Crump, Darryl, TM's mother) etc. who from the VERY begging turned this into race.

And I totally believe Tracy Martin knew what was on his son's phone, which is why (IMO) he never helped police with the password and had them go to his lawyer.

I feel sorry for their loss but I believe they are no better than George & Cindy Anthony.

This prosecution team is the WORST I've seen.

Did anyone notice Angela Corey sitting in the front row?

[sunshine12]

BTW, I believe GZ felt emboldened somewhat because he was carrying. Betcha he would not have followed if he was unarmed..

where is the proof that GZ continued to follow Trayvon after the non emergency dispatch told him not to and he said 'Ok"  evidence suggests that trayvon double backed to get to zimmerman as he was almost at his dads girlfriends home based on testimony so far

[grace-land]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/01/us/in-zimmerman-trial-prosecution-witnesses-bolster-self-defense-claims.html?_r=0

In Zimmerman Trial, Prosecution Witnesses Bolster Self-Defense Claims
Published: June 30, 2013

SANFORD, Fla. — As the trial of George Zimmerman enters its second week on Monday, it appears that the prosecution is struggling to meet the burden of proving him guilty of second-degree murder, legal analysts said.

The first week of the trial featured testimony from prosecution witnesses that in many instances bolstered Mr. Zimmerman’s argument of self-defense rather than the state’s case, the analysts said.
 
The prosecution’s case could get stronger this week. The state is expected to delve into inconsistencies in Mr. Zimmerman’s statements to the police.

Mr. Zimmerman, for example, said that Mr. Martin had scared him, yet he got out of his car and followed the teenager. He initially told the police that Mr. Martin had popped out of bushes, but there are no bushes near that spot. And Mr. Zimmerman said he got out of his car because he could not tell the dispatcher the name of the street, even though the housing complex has only three streets. Defense lawyers will probably try to minimize inconsistencies by saying their client had experienced a traumatic episode.

The prosecution is also expected to call Chris Serino, the Sanford police officer who was the lead investigator in the case. Mr. Serino, who said Mr. Zimmerman had a “little hero complex” and felt his statements sounded “scripted,” recommended a manslaughter charge.

But that testimony could get complicated. Mr. Serino later told the F.B.I. that he had been pressured to make an arrest. He told the federal agents that he did not think there was enough evidence for a manslaughter charge.

High-ranking officials in the Sanford Police Department and the original state attorney in the case agreed: they decided not to arrest or charge Mr. Zimmerman in February and March because they felt they lacked enough evidence to rebut self-defense.

Mr. Zimmerman was arrested six weeks after the shooting, and only after a special prosecutor from Jacksonville was appointed by the governor. By then, the shooting had set off protests and turned into a civil rights issue.

Mr. Zimmerman’s actions after the shooting could also pose a problem for prosecutors this week. Immediately after the shooting, Mr. Zimmerman cooperated with the police, admitted to shooting in self-defense and gave days of statements without asking for a lawyer.
 

[sailcat]

I guess I'm taking this case way too personally, but here is the reason why: In my teens and early 20's, I made Trayvon Martin look like a choir boy. Sorry to say that I was pretty crazy way back then. I did a lot of things I'm not particularly proud of. One day a fellow told me that he came within a couple of seconds of killing me the night before. He told me about "almost" shooting me when he thought I was trying to break into his place. He said at the last second I turned away and he could see my face and knew that I wasn't up to any mischief. I laughed it off at the time, but over the years it has bothered me more and more.

I straightened up soon after that incident - not because of it, but because I just wanted to change my life. Since then, I have led a good life and have been a reasonably good man and good citizen. If the timing of things had gone the other way a couple of seconds, I would have had my brains spattered all over a place far from home, and the shooter would have been "justified" and I promise you that given the place and time and circumstances, he would never have been charged with anything. But I would never have been married. I would never have held my babies or my grand-babies. I would not have influenced - or been influenced by - the thousands of students I've been in contact with over the years.

Trayvon Martin will never have the chance to live a good life - or any life at all - because it was taken from him. Not because of anything he said or did or thought. But because a knucklehead with a history of violence and a gun stuck in his pants decided that Trayvon shouldn't be in a place where he had every right to be. I don't know... I'm just having a lot of trouble understanding how people think a guy like George Zimmerman should be able to take away this young man's future and not pay a price for it.

[flamom]

Thank you for sharing that sailcat! I have been carefully reading postings and see alot of transference and projection and anger going on in this case. Personal experiences do count in formulating the way we view the world.

[iluvmua]

I guess I'm taking this case way too personally, but here is the reason why: In my teens and early 20's, I made Trayvon Martin look like a choir boy. Sorry to say that I was pretty crazy way back then. I did a lot of things I'm not particularly proud of. One day a fellow told me that he came within a couple of seconds of killing me the night before. He told me about "almost" shooting me when he thought I was trying to break into his place. He said at the last second I turned away and he could see my face and knew that I wasn't up to any mischief. I laughed it off at the time, but over the years it has bothered me more and more.

I straightened up soon after that incident - not because of it, but because I just wanted to change my life. Since then, I have led a good life and have been a reasonably good man and good citizen. If the timing of things had gone the other way a couple of seconds, I would have had my brains spattered all over a place far from home, and the shooter would have been "justified" and I promise you that given the place and time and circumstances, he would never have been charged with anything. But I would never have been married. I would never have held my babies or my grand-babies. I would not have influenced - or been influenced by - the thousands of students I've been in contact with over the years.

Trayvon Martin will never have the chance to live a good life - or any life at all - because it was taken from him. Not because of anything he said or did or thought. But because a knucklehead with a history of violence and a gun stuck in his pants decided that Trayvon shouldn't be in a place where he had every right to be. I don't know... I'm just having a lot of trouble understanding how people think a guy like George Zimmerman should be able to take away this young man's future and not pay a price for it.

Do you honestly think that George wanted to take his life? He did it to save his own and I would have done the exact same thing George did.

George was acting in self defense, period.

JMo

[alagary]

Martin was far enough ahead to go into the apartment. He could have called 911 or his father. He decided to go back and confront Zimmerman. We will never know the reason why but his phone pics, tweets, and backround suggest his intention.
Enough for reasonable doubt. 

[alagary]

On the Today Show this morning Jose Baez said ;
"The key issue is who was the initial aggressor because it was a completely avoidable incident, Baez said. "Who turned it into an unavoidable incident?" Baez asked.

Does agreeing with bozo get me kicked off of Scared Monkeys?

[grace-land]

July 1, 2013 Tweets

https://twitter.com/yamiche

Yamiche Alcindor ‏@Yamiche  17s 
The state just called Dr. Hirotaka Nakasone to the stand. He's the FBI voice expert who testified for the defense at the Frye hearing.

Yamiche Alcindor ‏@Yamiche  1m 
The family of Trayvon Martin is here again with their attorney, Daryl Parks.

Yamiche Alcindor Yamiche Alcindor ‏@Yamiche  2m 
Court is back in session. #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin

Yamiche Alcindor Yamiche Alcindor ‏@Yamiche  35m 
Court was supposed to begin at 8:30 a.m. today but the lawyers have worked out their issue so the trial will resume at 9 a.m.

[alagary]

https://twitter.com/JeffWeinerOS

Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 31s Nakasone was unable to identify the screams in the 911 call. Testified for the defense at the Frye hearing.

Rene Stutzman ‏@renestutzman 1m Jurors enter the c-room. State calls FBI sound expert who tried but could not ID source of screams. #Trayvon, #ZimmermanRetweeted by Jeff Weiner
from Sanford, FL       

 Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS 1m State calls Hirotaka Nakasone, FBI forensic audio expert. #ZimmermanTrial #GeorgeZimmerman #TrayvonMartin