Natalee Case Discussion #785 12/13/08 - 12/17/08

[Tamikosmom]

I just feel even if they replace Mos and new Mos will come in and pick up right after the old one did.  Just like Mos did when he replaced Karin Janssen.  I just don't feel like Mos is the one leading this investigation.  He is taking orders from someone.

I agree San.

However ... I do not think there is even an investigation and ... neither does Jossy Mansur and ... neither does Beth Holloway.

I believe Rudy Croes' charade of an "investigation" into the Jan Vander Straaten/Paulus van der Slot connection is nothing but a "dog and pony show" meant to bring a close to the Natalee Holloway case and ... pacify the family.  Prior to closing the case ... Aruba will apologize to the family of Natalee Holloway.  Aruba will concede that wrong decisions made in the first ten days of the investigation by Jan Vander Straaten imply justice will never prevail.

Janet
__________

JOSSY MANSUR
BETH HOLLOWAY

Natalee Holloway's Mom: Aruba Investigators 'Not Following Up on Any Leads'
Wednesday, November 19, 2008

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, that's not all the prosecution is saying tonight, which leads me to the question (INAUDIBLE) prosecution. Are they doing anything to investigate this case, as far as you can see?

MANSUR: As far as we can see in Aruba, absolutely nothing. All they're saying is, and they're sticking to, is that by the end of the year, they will make a decision, a final decision whether to take the man to court or close the case forever.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, what -- they've issued a statement tonight, Hans Mos, the prosecutor, and it says, in part, that they're still trying to investigate every last lead, which, frankly, is a lie. And I'll talk about that in a second. But Jossy, is there any enthusiasm to investigate this case? I know the prosecutor doesn't -- I don't think the prosecutor's doing anything, but what about people on the island? Do they want this case buried or they want this solved?

MANSUR: No, they're indifferent to this case now because so much has gone on in three-and-a-half years and the people are busy with other things, other situations here. So the people of Aruba are not that interested anymore in the case.

<snipped>

VAN SUSTEREN: Karin Janssen was the original prosecutor and Hans Mos took over. When she left Aruba, did she call you and sort of tie up lose ends, or did she just sort of vanish from your radar screen?

HOLLOWAY: No, just absolutely vanished. I had no idea she was even leaving so quickly as she did. So you know, that's always been an issue, just no communication from the prosecuting attorney's office. And you know, it just leaves you wondering, you know, where are you? And you hear all this information coming them, saying that they're following up on every lead. Well, you know, that's just simply not true. They're not following up on any leads.

VAN SUSTEREN: Has there -- now, we said the two prosecutors. Have any of the police officers, anybody from Aruba at all contacted you and said we're doing anything on the case at all? Is there any reason for you to believe it's being investigated?

HOLLOWAY: No, absolutely none. No. Not at all. Not to any degree.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454527,00.html

[wreck]

I still say we should just STOP doing anything with Aruba at all. Expose the corruption and pressure our OWN government to declare Aruba an unsafe travel destination.
The truth will set EVERYONE free. Let's just be done with them. My guess is that our FBI already KNOWS what happened -- let's just call them on it.

Wreck, Our government is not about to lose that Forward Observation Base just 16 miles from Chavez with his courting the Russians and asking for nuclear technology from them.

I guess that is true  -- ............very discouraging.

[BUCKSHOT]

SS:

How, when we can't get anyone to listen?  This is exactly why I didn't jump on the bandwagon and start cheering because the Dutch are coming to save Natalee.  The Dutch Parliament might be addressing corruption issues with the ABCs, but I really don't think Natalee is a very high priority for them, or they would have addressed her disappearance long before now.  The Dutch already know what has happened.  I'm afraid that JQK will get the same treatment that Tim got from Mos last September and the same treatment Greta got recently.

There are too many people involved in Natalee's cover up. They aren't going to arrest just one or two people.  I don't see Urine or Paulass going to jail for anything that was done to Natalee.  I think that we need to figure out exactly where she is, if that is still a possibility, and demand the return of her remains.  I know that Jossy has four witnesses, but nothing is happening with these witnesses.  Mos and ALE aren't paying any attention to the witnesses.  They aren't even paying attention to Greta and Peter deVries.  They are thumbing their noses at us again

.
That's ALL I'm asking for!

SS and Wreck....I'm with You on this but how the hell do We DEMAND Her remains be returned?......

We have to figure out where she is and we need help from people in Aruba because we can't do this on our own.  Was she in the cage - we don't know.  Caps doesn't help us or answer our questions anymore after he told us that she was likely dismembered and/or she is in the cemetery.  Destiny did a beautiful appeal in the newspaper last May - did anyone ever reply?  I am beyond frustration at this point and the fighting is just making it worse because it means that things are crumbling from within the once unified group.

SS...I in no way meant My Question about DEMAND to be Ugly....I just don't know how to find out where Natalee is.....Caps is doing work over there that We don't even know about....I'm sure of it because I believe in Him......Jossy probably knows things also but for whatever reason He and Caps both are not telling Us at this time.....I don't know what happened about Destiny's appeal...maybe if another Monkey knows they can tell Us........  

Hotping - I didn't for a minute think that your question was ugly.  You sound as frustrated as I am right now.  I think Caps is someone who can help us.  He has already given us such an incredible amount of information.  Most of it seems to be pretty accurate.  I have also heard that Caps and Jossy are working behind the scenes, but nothing is happening and Caps hasn't been communicating with us or responding to our questions.  Mos has disregarded the witnesses, Greta, and Peter.  He wouldn't even meet with Tim in September.  Jossy never followed through with Parts 3, 4, and 5 that were supposed to expose Paulass.  I really don't expect anything to happen with the Dutch Parliament.  I feel like we've been set adrift without a paddle.

Think about it...

Jossy Mansur is not filthy rich because of his local newspaper, Diario. It is probably a part time (full time) job. I will not go so far as to say it is a front, because he seems passionate about it and does a pretty good job with it.

Jossy Mansur is up in age. Do not think for one minute that a guy with a cane can not be involved in high level criminal activity. I am not saying he is, only throwing out there that it is indeed possible. Furthermore, it would not be a stretch to speculate that Jossy, through his known past, and shady family members, is involved in high end criminal activity that pays him dividends, kickbacks, bribe money from multiple and various sources. A silent partner, if you will.

Jossy Mansur seems like a very nice guy. Those who know him believe that he is a decent guy, humanitarian. However, if his intentions are not completely above board, and no one knows it but him, it could be an unknown sabotage. The family likes him.

He certainly has influence and clout on the island. I can not see too many people bullying him around on the island. Maybe physically, but certianly not politically. He, like many others in Aruba, wants the heat off of the country. Limelight in Aruba is not good for the businesses, that serve as cover to more nefarious activities. Aruba, as a whole, certianly wishes to have the lights and cameras turned off so as to resume business as normal.

Last, always keep in mind that dogs do not shit where they eat. This is an age old cliche, but certainly holds true. Puppies may be guilty of shitting where they eat, bu bigger, more mature, dogs do not. Same with Jossy and Aruba. Jossy surely walks a thin line in exposing his room mates, so to speak. He probably wants the heat off, too. Again, as nice of a guy as he may be, exposing everything may hurt his pockets, too, so ask yourself...where would his loyalties lie??

Just my humble opinion...Remember, I, too, think Jossy is swell. Probably a great guy to conversate with. Just saying...

[Anna]

It is discouraging but we will think of something.

I don't know what but we just won't let them get away with this.

Who didn't know vd Straten was communicating with and covering for Paulus from the get go?  Everybody even Geraldo knew that.

And we are still here which says something.  Someone will come up with a plan of what we can and should do.  Meanwhile, I am still praying for a miracle.

[truthseeker2]

Buckshot,

We both see this the same way.  The thing that I come back to, though, is Jossy saying that Van Der Straaten is a good man.  That has me perplexed.    We haven't heard much from Jossy since Rudy Croes came out with his state about Van Der Straaten, so I guess i am wondering what Jossy thinks of the current developments in that regard. 

One thing I will say for him, he does try to keep the heat on Joran and Paulus.  But are they the only ones that need to feel the heat?  Will Jossy come out and put some heat on Van Der Straaten?

[wreck]

Buckshot:

Think about it...

Jossy Mansur is not filthy rich because of his local newspaper, Diario. It is probably a part time (full time) job. I will not go so far as to say it is a front, because he seems passionate about it and does a pretty good job with it.

Jossy Mansur is up in age. Do not think for one minute that a guy with a cane can not be involved in high level criminal activity. I am not saying he is, only throwing out there that it is indeed possible. Furthermore, it would not be a stretch to speculate that Jossy, through his known past, and shady family members, is involved in high end criminal activity that pays him dividends, kickbacks, bribe money from multiple and various sources. A silent partner, if you will.

Jossy Mansur seems like a very nice guy. Those who know him believe that he is a decent guy, humanitarian. However, if his intentions are not completely above board, and no one knows it but him, it could be an unknown sabotage. The family likes him.

He certainly has influence and clout on the island. I can not see too many people bullying him around on the island. Maybe physically, but certianly not politically. He, like many others in Aruba, wants the heat off of the country. Limelight in Aruba is not good for the businesses, that serve as cover to more nefarious activities. Aruba, as a whole, certianly wishes to have the lights and cameras turned off so as to resume business as normal.

Last, always keep in mind that dogs do not shit where they eat. This is an age old cliche, but certainly holds true. Puppies may be guilty of shitting where they eat, bu bigger, more mature, dogs do not. Same with Jossy and Aruba. Jossy surely walks a thin line in exposing his room mates, so to speak. He probably wants the heat off, too. Again, as nice of a guy as he may be, exposing everything may hurt his pockets, too, so ask yourself...where would his loyalties lie??

Just my humble opinion...Remember, I, too, think Jossy is swell. Probably a great guy to conversate with. Just saying...

Jossy has a few enemies he would stop at nothing to "go after" -the current ruling political party and PERHAPS Paulus Van der Sloot (and/or his family) because he had his brothers extradited. If he can pin the "crime" on PVDS or Joran  --all the better. He "saves the island" and he rids himself an enemy.

[texasmom]

12/16/2008 Bondia page 18a

http://bondia.com

[hotping]

TM I hope You don't mind but I thought this needed to be posted just in case Everyone doesn't see Your sig line...We are here to help Dave to keep His promise to Natalee!


DAVE HOLLOWAY - ARUBA 
"We won't give up on you, Natalee. You didn't give up on us, and we will continue with the investigation until we have all of the answers to your disappearance."
"God be with you, my Natalee!"

[Anna]

The Arubans and the Dutch seem all busy arguing with each other but they both seem to have forgotten about Natalee. 

[texasmom]

TM I hope You don't mind but I thought this needed to be posted just in case Everyone doesn't see Your sig line...We are here to help Dave to keep His promise to Natalee!


DAVE HOLLOWAY - ARUBA 
"We won't give up on you, Natalee. You didn't give up on us, and we will continue with the investigation until we have all of the answers to your disappearance."
"God be with you, my Natalee!"

Of course I don't mind Hotping, I think I needed that reminder too.  Thanks. 

[BUCKSHOT]

Buckshot,

We both see this the same way.  The thing that I come back to, though, is Jossy saying that Van Der Straaten is a good man.  That has me perplexed.    We haven't heard much from Jossy since Rudy Croes came out with his state about Van Der Straaten, so I guess i am wondering what Jossy thinks of the current developments in that regard. 

One thing I will say for him, he does try to keep the heat on Joran and Paulus.  But are they the only ones that need to feel the heat?  Will Jossy come out and put some heat on Van Der Straaten?

Agreed. Maybe he (VdS) was a good man. Maybe everyone liked him.

But, an accident/tragedy happened to a tourist on an island that depends on tourism dollars. Just so happened to involve a very close friend, and his son. Gut check time for VanderStraaten. Prosecute his buddy and son, or cover up for them. We all know which way his morals led him.

Aruba thought this would be an internal matter, one which would go undetected. Swept under the rug.

Noy were they wrong...Two things screwed up their envisioned happy ending...Traction of the story by the international media...A determined mother (and family)... Aruba has been reeling ever since.

Good thing they have Arlene Schippers...She is probably a big help, when it comes to legal matters...Haha...Make up the rules as you go, then explain away to the media that the Aruban legal system is so different and compex than others...What a joke...

In regards to Jossy, maybe we have to accept what little he gives us, as he is not obligated to give his anything. Hopefully, for everyone, what he gives us is honest and above board, void of personal motives or agendas.

[BUCKSHOT]

Buckshot,

We both see this the same way.  The thing that I come back to, though, is Jossy saying that Van Der Straaten is a good man.  That has me perplexed.    We haven't heard much from Jossy since Rudy Croes came out with his state about Van Der Straaten, so I guess i am wondering what Jossy thinks of the current developments in that regard. 

One thing I will say for him, he does try to keep the heat on Joran and Paulus.  But are they the only ones that need to feel the heat?  Will Jossy come out and put some heat on Van Der Straaten?

Agreed. Maybe he (VdS) was a good man. Maybe everyone liked him.

But, an accident/tragedy happened to a tourist on an island that depends on tourism dollars. Just so happened to involve a very close friend, and his son. Gut check time for VanderStraaten. Prosecute his buddy and son, or cover up for them. We all know which way his morals led him.

Aruba thought this would be an internal matter, one which would go undetected. Swept under the rug.

Boy were they wrong...Two things screwed up their envisioned happy ending...Traction of the story by the international media...A determined mother (and family)... Aruba has been reeling ever since.

Good thing they have Arlene Schippers...She is probably a big help, when it comes to legal matters...Haha...Make up the rules as you go, then explain away to the media that the Aruban legal system is so different and compex than others...What a joke...

In regards to Jossy, maybe we have to accept what little he gives us, as he is not obligated to give his anything. Hopefully, for everyone, what he gives us is honest and above board, void of personal motives or agendas.

[cajun miracle]

Hey Janet,

Happy Birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And to all of these great Monkeys, Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!

Cajun Miracle

[texasmom]

12/17/2008 Awe Mainta Page 6

http://awemainta.com/home/



declaracionnan of rudy croes on van der straten can have consecuencianan big for aruba

desaroyo of the caso of natalee holloway y expresionnan of minister of husticia rudy croes owing to achieve atencion of faction avp, cual have they preocupa. member of parliament arthur dowers owing to indica cu owing to cuestiona expresionnan of the minister in parliament, but past owing to deny of contesta questions of parliament on the mature cu sr. van der straten will owing to provoke cu expresionnan haci by of dje y cu expresionnan cu the minister owing to haci was for provoca v.d. straten also. avp is achieve this algo extremely iresponsabel, because they're compronde cu the form cu the minister owing to expresa his self owing to capta atencion internacional. brinckman of the netherlands owing to escoge for ataca again we region y owing to give declaracionnan till at merca basa on expresionnan of minister of husticia of aruba. dowers is indica cu much person is cuestiona cu if the fondonan cu owing to wordo poni available for mercadeo of aruba if this will bay is efectivo mirando cu have much person cu owing to wordo recorda on the possible miss of seguridad of we island. more aleu the is tell cu if the minister had cualkier suspicion the have to owing to haci one investigacion the time yonder, more still teniendo at cuenta cu the time yonder in parliament owing to ask about if have have to of one investigacion adicional y the contesta was cu this do not necesario. also the is indica cu is look like cu the minister do not conciente of the damage cu the is haciendo not only at imagen of aruba y we sistema hudicial, but also the damage economico cu this can have for we country. thing member of parliament of avp is lamenta more is cu hour in parliament owing to haci the questions at the minister y cu the not owing to contesta, none of esnan cu is sostene gobierno owing to cuestiona this, inclusive owing to haci the peticion for chairman of parliament for indica the minister for contesta y past owing to haci as cu the not owing to hear esnan of fraccion of avp.

[hotping]

Thanks Cajun Miracle and Merry Christmas to You!

[hotping]

The Arubans and the Dutch seem all busy arguing with each other but they both seem to have forgotten about Natalee. 

You're Right Anna.....That's why We need to keep Natalee's case front and center so they can't forget about Her...... 

[truthseeker2]

Buckshot,

We both see this the same way.  The thing that I come back to, though, is Jossy saying that Van Der Straaten is a good man.  That has me perplexed.    We haven't heard much from Jossy since Rudy Croes came out with his state about Van Der Straaten, so I guess i am wondering what Jossy thinks of the current developments in that regard. 

One thing I will say for him, he does try to keep the heat on Joran and Paulus.  But are they the only ones that need to feel the heat?  Will Jossy come out and put some heat on Van Der Straaten?

Agreed. Maybe he (VdS) was a good man. Maybe everyone liked him.

But, an accident/tragedy happened to a tourist on an island that depends on tourism dollars. Just so happened to involve a very close friend, and his son. Gut check time for VanderStraaten. Prosecute his buddy and son, or cover up for them. We all know which way his morals led him.

Aruba thought this would be an internal matter, one which would go undetected. Swept under the rug.

Noy were they wrong...Two things screwed up their envisioned happy ending...Traction of the story by the international media...A determined mother (and family)... Aruba has been reeling ever since.

Good thing they have Arlene Schippers...She is probably a big help, when it comes to legal matters...Haha...Make up the rules as you go, then explain away to the media that the Aruban legal system is so different and compex than others...What a joke...

In regards to Jossy, maybe we have to accept what little he gives us, as he is not obligated to give his anything. Hopefully, for everyone, what he gives us is honest and above board, void of personal motives or agendas.

I get that, and agree.

The accident part is a stretch for me.  I just do nto think there was an 'accident'.  An accident could have easily been explained...or they could have even explained, in their own way, that Joran was not to blame.  But, no body, no case?  For an accident?  I can't buy into that. Something bad did happen.

You are right about Arleen, too.  She just made this worse and showed the world how unprepared Aruba was to be questioned by outsiders.  She looked like a fool, but thanks to her we were able to see just what we were dealing with very early on.

True, he is not obligated to do anything.  But he did involve himself in investigating this.  I just hope he is on the up and up.

[hotping]

TM I hope You don't mind but I thought this needed to be posted just in case Everyone doesn't see Your sig line...We are here to help Dave to keep His promise to Natalee!


DAVE HOLLOWAY - ARUBA 
"We won't give up on you, Natalee. You didn't give up on us, and we will continue with the investigation until we have all of the answers to your disappearance."
"God be with you, my Natalee!"

Of course I don't mind Hotping, I think I needed that reminder too.  Thanks. 

Thanks TM...I hoped You wouldn't mind! 

[BUCKSHOT]

A very difficult task to go to Aruba (from Holland) and investigate police corruption...Where the hell would one even start?...Demand Rudy Croes and Oduber thoroughly investigate/review the investigation all the way back from the beginning?...Where and how would Croes and Oduber even start?...Summon VanderStraaten into their office(s) to be questioned?...Ask Jacobs where all the evidence and case files are located?...Ask the judges why they denied search warrants of the entire VDS property?...Better stop...Almost fell out of my chair laughing...What a joke!!!

Sincerely, good luck with that!!! Will need a large courtroom...

End result:
(1)Apogy campaign to family, country, Holland, US, and world.
(2)Investigation into Aruban police corruption that goes nowhere. Promise, revision, and enactment of certain laws.
(3)Dog and pony show - Publicly reprimand/demote involved players.
(4)If charges brought against ANYONE (corrupted official,suspect,peripheral accomplice), they will be minor, insignificant, and will involve minimal jail time, if at all. Process will take many, many years.
(5)Aruba will forever work on restoring tourism.

The script is being written as we speak...Many authors and consultants involved...

[klaasend]

Hey Janet,

Happy Birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And to all of these great Monkeys, Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!

Cajun Miracle

Janet?  It's your birthday?  HAPPY BIRTHDAY!