Haleigh Cummings #4 3/04/09 - 3/08/09

[Idgie]

With the front door leading to a screened porch, wouldn't it have been more logical to use that door if the purpose was to nab Haleigh?

The tract from the back door is long, tight, and the back door opens to a wide open space.
No way to see what is going on till you have the door opened up wide, the peep hole is limited.  But the front door, is in the same room as the door to the bedroom, and its near impossible to see in a screened room in the dark.  They would have been able to see if anyone was around before walking out into the yard with her.  I'm kind of leaning, at this moment, that whatever happened to Haleigh, was a side effect of something else.

I have been thinking a good possibility that whoever, possibly more than one person did go there to take something else. They made preparations by blocking the door open before going inside. After they got inside the trailer, Haleigh woke up after hearing them and thought it was her daddy home from work. Maybe she got up and went into the kitchen but it was the intruder rather than her dad and they or him took her on the spur of the moment. I am still suspicious of the cousin. RC knew someone had taken her and then the saying she is not property " She is my daughter " just really makes more sense when I think this scenario. Also the Sheriff made a comment that Haleigh is not where she is suppose to be so just bring her home.

[Rob]

[Rob...are you the same Rob that used to post on the mirror forum when Madeleine was missing ?

I was one of the few Americans posting over there....
I was also one of the good guys....Got into it all the time with HAL on the Natalee Halloway thread over there...

sorry to be off topic...

I guess that was ME after-all.

[Tater]

Then there was the night I was lying in bed reading and had a baby monitor on a litter of pups at the other end of the house and heard a man cough and clear his throat on the monitor.

 

That one must have taken ten years off my lifespan!  But that's another story and it's late here.

Goodnight all Monkeys and I will be praying that this weekend brings a recovery of this child Haleigh to her family.

Oh but Paul Harvey is gone Anna! Care to do a sit in and tell us the rest of the story?

[Rob]

Sometimes I start to get worried that a child may never be found. I think this is one of those times.

I don't know what brings this thought or feeling over me, but I have it again.

lemme try to explain.

I have been thinking that this is an unknown pedophile who committed this terrible and atrocious crime against Haleigh. And I have posted that several times. It's not a secret. I think the person is between 50 and 55 years of age, a white male, possibly living in very close proximity, does not have a girlfriend or wife and may have recently split up with a girlfriend or wife, is not on a SO database and most likely has been molesting girls his whole life. Of course I can be wrong - we are all wrong more often than we are right. I have never viewed missing people and / or children as a game of being "right" or "wrong". I just want the child found - hopefully unharmed - like all of you. That's all I want - children found.

I can't tell you how wrong I really hope I am. I sure don't like thinking these things and I sure don't like that there doesn't seem to be any progress toward a resolution (that we're all aware of anyway).

With 40 registered SOs in the area (that's a much smaller number than the 221 I found in the area in the Adji Desir case and one living in the farmer's village where Adji lives) the police have surely spoken and interview all the KNOWN possible perpetrators. I have to believe that all 40 have an alibi and have been interviewed by now. These individuals are likely to re-offend and we all know that. They are at the top of the list. Getting through 40 registered SOs shouldn't take long and there does not seem to be a correlation here yet.

If there are 40 KNOWN SOs there have to be another 20 to 40 that have not ever been caught. There have to be more out there. It's naive to think that there are not more and children not falling victim to these monsters. This is a small area and there are only so many people living here. This is not a huge metropolis and it's hard to imagine someone has driven to this location in hopes of abducting Haleigh on a blind whim. So, whoever did this - did it with intent and purpose.

When abducting a child at 3+ am the perp always runs the risk that the police may pull over his car and catch him in the act. There have been lots of criminals caught smuggling drugs, people and guns that have simply been caught in a traffic stop. To avoid immediate detection the abductor can abduct someone very local and take that child to a location nearby. When abducting someone local - the criminal risks that someone may accidentally see him and recognize him. There are risks to every type of criminal act. Minimizing those risks is what makes a criminal successful and able to avoid jail. We all  know that.

Children to not vaporize or dematerialize. That doesn't happen... so something happened to Haleigh. At this point with the police and investigators unable to link a parent or family member to this "vanished" missing child - I would have to think that there is an alternative explanation. It's just down right stoopid to think that there is not an explanation for what happened. I admit it is perplexing, but there is an explanation here somewhere.

We have all seen cases where a car has been found in a pond, lake or river. It seems as if that person driving the car just "vanished" only to be discovered years later and the explanation is completely plausible after said discovery. There was a case recently where a woman was found in a 1957 Bel-Air. She was missing for more than 50 years. That doesn't happen often, but it can and does. The very fact that Haleigh is 5 eliminates her ability to care for herself or just "move on" and start a new life. There are only so many plausible explanations.

A "vanishing" is only a vanishing until the explanation becomes clear. Does that make sense? There is always an explanation but the clues sometimes remain elusive. Sometimes a person takes a person from a bar after drugging them and pretends a deathmobile is a taxi and takes the victim to their home - assaults the victim along with a few of his deranged friends and then "something bad" happens and then they dispose of the body along with help from the goonchild's father. So even though there doesn't seem to be an explanation in the beginning when the "vanishing" occurs - sooner or later the truth emerges after most of the possibilities have been exhausted.

Simply having the police say, at some later date, we have exhausted all possibilities and hope that someone phones in THAT tip that helps us kinda doesn't wash with me. Time goes by and memories fade. People die and they move. To solve this case time is and has been of the essence. It always is when a child or adult is missing.

To solve the crime committed against Haleigh the police and LE need to look toward some of the more viable candidates. And by that I am not suggesting that anyone's civil rights be violated. I am simply suggesting that maybe the FBI profilers should start to be taken a little more seriously and maybe the LE should look to who fits a possible profile in the immediate area.

 - jmo -

[cookie]

[Rob...are you the same Rob that used to post on the mirror forum when Madeleine was missing ?

I was one of the few Americans posting over there....
I was also one of the good guys....Got into it all the time with HAL on the Natalee Halloway thread over there...

sorry to be off topic...

I guess that was ME after-all.

thought so.... enjoyed your posts over there as well as here...

[cookie]

from one newbie to the other newbies...you all bring a lot to the table in discussions just as any other posters on here do...Welcome to all...this is a nice bunch of posters here...just as you all seem to be...

[theboyzmom]

Rob - you are so right - that was a wonderful post. If you go and look at the FBI site there are lots of people that have been found but no one knows who they are. there are people missing that no one know what happened to them. Wonder how many match but nobody has noticed.

I have a fear that we may never know what happened in this case.

I do have a question about the house - when I was watching NG last night the GM said that they cleaned up the house after the search. I wonder what it looked like before LE came in - I know that I tend to have a few toys laying around - and step on one on occasion when I get up in the middle of the night - were there toys laying around in this house? Would make it harder for a bad guy to come in without making noise.

[ospainter]

Good morning

Daniel Snodgrass trial set for June 22, 2009

http://www.putnam-fl.com/clk_apps/crim_dkts/frame.php

UCN: 542007CF002375XXAXMX
File Date: 2007-12-19 Judge: EDWARD E HEDSTROM   
Defense Atty: MOYER, JEAN DESROSIERS 

Defendant
SNODGRASS, DANIEL E 
Alias
SANGRASS, DANIEL E

2009-03-05 109 PRE TRIAL MINUTES: DEFT PRES, ATT BY JEAN MOYER 

2009-03-05 109 STATE AND DEFENSE ANNOUNCED READY FOR TRIAL 

2009-03-05 109 CASE SET FOR JURY TRIAL 06/22/2009 

2009-03-06 110 NOTICE TO ATTORNEY (06/22/2009) 

2009-03-06 111 NOTICE TO BONDSMAN (06/22/2009

OS

[Blink34]

Maybe someone was hiding in the abandoned car waiting for everybody to go to sleep.

Lots of possibilities but all speculation until there is some kind of break in this investigation.

Yep.  I was wondering if anyone lives on boats around there too.

This is what I think also, sadly. Cadaver dogs in the area did not hit, so Im willing to say she left that immediate area alive and based on the k9 trail, I think it points to leaving on the water.

[dsntslp]

If she were removed from the home immediately
(or within  around the first 2 hrs)
there would be no cadaver scent for the K-9's to follow or alert on.

From what I understand, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong, it takes approximately 2 hours for the scent of death to become discernible to the dogs.

What bothers me is that when someone dies their bodily functions release and they urinate and sometimes their bowels release.  Urine at this point would not give off a decomp scent imo.

[cookie]

quote:  I think the confusion comes in when some posters are not reading back on the thread?  I think I am old school and like to read everything before I go off half cocked with a post. 

And I've noticed some newbies ask questions that could easily be answered if they just read back a couple pages.  Just what I'm noticing lately.  unquote....

with respect, I have noticed that some "oldie" posters do the same thing ....

[cookie]

the tracking  dogs stopped at the railroad tracks and at the waters edge....correct?
are they in the same proximity of each other?  how far are these areas from the dumpster that the  cadaver dogs hit on?

[lilymarie]

Morning All! I'm new - started yesterday - but I've been reading your forum for a while. I'm one who tends to agree with Rob's theory of a pedo snatching Haleigh. I just can't decide if its a person known to the family or a stranger who saw Haleigh and has been stalking the situation. My gut tells me that in order to watch the family's habits - someone would have noticed a stranger out of place in that small community but I suppose its possible. So -imo- the steps as I imagine them are:

1. Perp knows (maybe vaguely) about the layout of the house.
2. Parks car in a close but not conspicuous place - or lives close enough to the house.
3. Props screen door open with a cinder block. Leaves items to restrain Haleigh near back door. Plans to escape through the back door in order not to be seen coming out with Haleigh in his arms.
4. Enters the house through front door either with key or it was unlocked or picks lock.
5. Clears a path for his escape out the back. Unlocks back door and props it open with whatever is convenient (laundry on the floor?)
6. Goes to bedrooms looking for Haleigh. Probably believes the kids sleep in a separate bedroom and was maybe confused at first when he didn't find Haleigh on the other end of the house? Maybe that is why the kitchen light is turned on - so he can light enough to peek into rooms.
7. Finds Haleigh in master bedroom - evaluates whether or not he can snatch her without waking Misty. They are sleeping heavily so it must be at least a couple of hours after Misty went to bed...around 12:00 or 1:00?
8. Gets Haleigh out the back of the house and then manages to restrain and keep her quiet somehow (puts her in a duffle bag?).
9. Perp is long gone and trail is cold by the time Ron gets home.

Ok. That's just my theory. I want to believe it wasn't someone in the family but I suspect it was someone connected to the family. Thanks for reading - what are your thoughts?

[dsntslp]

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=satsuma+florida&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=29.716225,56.25&ie=UTF8&ll=29.556809,-81.655197&spn=0.031806,0.054932&z=14&iwloc=addr

[lilymarie]

quote:  I think the confusion comes in when some posters are not reading back on the thread?  I think I am old school and like to read everything before I go off half cocked with a post. 

And I've noticed some newbies ask questions that could easily be answered if they just read back a couple pages.  Just what I'm noticing lately.  unquote....

with respect, I have noticed that some "oldie" posters do the same thing ....

With all respect to long-time posters to this forum - just because we're new here doesn't mean that we're new to posting on forums. I notice that most people enter the forum and take quite a bit of time to read back several pages. I do. It's not logical to expect new posters to read the entire forum on a subject this big. I will say that for the most part the long-timers here have been great. I also have been reading that "other" <cough> forum and am so glad that I didn't register after seeing what happened over the last couple weeks! I'm very glad to be here because there a several people here that have made some great points and well thought-out theories.

[lilymarie]

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=satsuma+florida&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=29.716225,56.25&ie=UTF8&ll=29.556809,-81.655197&spn=0.031806,0.054932&z=14&iwloc=addr

Thanks dsntslp! I was looking for this when I was trying to figure out where a perp might have parked a car or how someone might have escaped on foot without being noticed.

[dsntslp]

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=satsuma+florida&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=29.716225,56.25&ie=UTF8&ll=29.556809,-81.655197&spn=0.031806,0.054932&z=14&iwloc=addr

Not sure why my pins did not post, they had the addresses marked, my grandson  (almost 2, woohoo) just got here so I have to go, can someone else fill in the addresses please? BBL "IF"  he takes a nap, lol.

[cookie]

quote:  I think the confusion comes in when some posters are not reading back on the thread?  I think I am old school and like to read everything before I go off half cocked with a post. 

And I've noticed some newbies ask questions that could easily be answered if they just read back a couple pages.  Just what I'm noticing lately.  unquote....

with respect, I have noticed that some "oldie" posters do the same thing ....

With all respect to long-time posters to this forum - just because we're new here doesn't mean that we're new to posting on forums. I notice that most people enter the forum and take quite a bit of time to read back several pages. I do. It's not logical to expect new posters to read the entire forum on a subject this big. I will say that for the most part the long-timers here have been great. I also have been reading that "other" <cough> forum and am so glad that I didn't register after seeing what happened over the last couple weeks! I'm very glad to be here because there a several people here that have made some great points and well thought-out theories.

I also try to read back several pages as well..
I think that sometimes posters are excited to get in on the latest news, may not have a lot of time to go back and just simply want to know what if anything there is that is new...it is impossible to keep up on everything...I am on here a lot and I can never catch up as hard as I try.
I am very glad to be here as well...I feel like one of the crowd and hope that others do/will as well....it has been a very easy blend with the posters on here...

[Today]

If she were removed from the home immediately
(or within  around the first 2 hrs)
there would be no cadaver scent for the K-9's to follow or alert on.

From what I understand, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong, it takes approximately 2 hours for the scent of death to become discernible to the dogs.

What bothers me is that when someone dies their bodily functions release and they urinate and sometimes their bowels release.  Urine at this point would not give off a decomp scent imo.

You are correct on the bodily function release.  There is also a lot of gasses, thus the stories you hear about moaning and sitting up after death.

Also, a dog can distinguish one live person from another.  However, they cannot distinguish decomp smells (one dead person smells just like another). 

[Today]

quote:  I think the confusion comes in when some posters are not reading back on the thread?  I think I am old school and like to read everything before I go off half cocked with a post. 

And I've noticed some newbies ask questions that could easily be answered if they just read back a couple pages.  Just what I'm noticing lately.  unquote....

with respect, I have noticed that some "oldie" posters do the same thing ....

I will admit to doing that.  During slow periods there is lots of miscellaneous postings.  So I skip.  If no one wants to answer my stupid questions because I have not read back far enough, well they don't have to .