Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 - 11/24/08

[Altruist]

Can honestly say that I really don't understand why OE would choose to not post at SM anylonger due to being in disagreement with one poster that being the lover frog, can anybody explain why that type of reaction, just don't understand it.  Agree to disagree, does anybody else find that an odd reaction or is it just me being old & all?

[MumInOhio]

BUCKSHOT has asked Kermit about Caps…My Perceptions…FWIW

Caps led some of us a merry dance around the Shango thread at times. Caps made many off the wall posts…Caps very seldom backed up his posts? Caps “mis-spoke” often, intentionally IMO.  In the beginning, Caps was on posting in Shango all day and night. Think this was until April…Some wondered what he did for a living…lol…He started disappearing for days at a time.

Around April 25th, after being led up the garden path, I was convinced of some things about Caps. My post was misinterpreted…I did not say Caps was a troll.

I do not believe Caps just happened on SM after discussing the Natalee Holloway case. I believe he is part of the plan that has now emerged. You will notice that on a few occasions he revealed the news before it was the news.
 
There are 3 people we have been interested in this case that answers were not forthcoming from Caps.

Caps often took his cue from previous posts…come in a week later with what had been discussed…his posts often echoed the thoughts of other posters. Then if it didn’t fit he would change his mind.

Caps asked questions at times that I felt he already knew the answers to. He exposed much of the corruption in Aruba…All the dirt on all the Ministers and bigwigs.

Both Caps and his friend Carlos Tromp were out to expose that Corruption. Read Caps early posts about the ICC. In the Hague I believe. He said this is the only way for the Family to get Justice for Natalee. I believe this was posted in January.

BTW…Caps posted that he was a Resident Alien, ie US Permanent Resident…his post tells me he is not…

Let me know when to start a new thread…Who is CapsLockWizard and what does he Know?

How am I doing Kermie?

[MumInOhio]

Can honestly say that I really don't understand why OE would choose to not post at SM anylonger due to being in disagreement with one poster that being the lover frog, can anybody explain why that type of reaction, just don't understand it.  Agree to disagree, does anybody else find that an odd reaction or is it just me being old & all?

Good Morning...JMO...This is going to a court in the Hague...Kermit may be upset about what happened to the evidence...There are the FBI and Those taking this to the Hague. The FBI didn't get the evidence.

[Altruist]

Good Morning...JMO...This is going to a court in the Hague...Kermit may be upset about what happened to the evidence...There are the FBI and Those taking this to the Hague. The FBI didn't get the evidence.

Well, don't know quite how to feel about that then.  It didn't seem to do very much for that man who was robbed of everything he had on LieRuba & as far as I know is now in a USA jail or prison for misstating the answer on an immigration form.  The future criminals in LieRuba were provided better accomodations but other than that was there really justice for the complete corruption of his case evidence disappearing on LieRuba?  Didn't get that impression, it is obvious it is alive & well flourishing loudly on the hell hole of a place.

[MumInOhio]

Good Morning...JMO...This is going to a court in the Hague...Kermit may be upset about what happened to the evidence...There are the FBI and Those taking this to the Hague. The FBI didn't get the evidence.

Well, don't know quite how to feel about that then.  It didn't seem to do very much for that man who was robbed of everything he had on LieRuba & as far as I know is now in a USA jail or prison for misstating the answer on an immigration form.  The future criminals in LieRuba were provided better accomodations but other than that was there really justice for the complete corruption of his case evidence disappearing on LieRuba?  Didn't get that impression, it is obvious it is alive & well flourishing loudly on the hell hole of a place.

Alex Mathew...disappeared from the Internet...all the sites and links just went? Maybe the INS told him to shut them down. His arrest was always strange to me...

We looked into him as Shango for a while...

Altruist...please read my previous post...Thanks!

[MumInOhio]

Another thought...

The reason Beth was at peace on February 3rd...the DeVries show was that Natalee's remains had already been Identified.

That would make Robin's posts on whatever that site is called, a diversion. The ones about the DNA made around March, I believe.

Is it possible?

[Altruist]

Of course if what I want to believe did happen at some point to establish the corruption would really have thought that complete immunity would have been extended for the endeavor's by our appropriate agencies or would it be treated like it is written about CIA covert actions?  You know, USA knows nothing if the actions are "discovered".  Just trying to understand, obviously having a hard time but if preventative measures were taken & those immunities were not arranged then independant laboratory testing would have been my route probably x 2, certainly not handing it over to the FBI going on record that I had done something for which a corrupt government could come after me for, not knowing definitively that my government was going to protect me & all others.

Guess that is what made me wonder about the parents of Natalee being in agreement about the information & direction of everything involved, cuz if ploys were set in force to divide & conquer that would be devastating, imo.  That's why I just was hoping to find out that both parents are aware of the entire operation or the operations that took place prior to the Persistence arriving on scene, if that is how it was orchestrated as I could see that being done as well.  It was made clear that Tim Miller had a pretty clear idea of the location he wanted to check out & that was known long before the Persistence even filled up the tanks, per se.

[MumInOhio]

This is what I mean...I have one of those cards...That is not how the ID numblers are written...Only looked at mine once in a while, but I knew this was wrong...

Quote Caps...

CAPSLOCKWIZARD USA RESIDENT ALIEN. XXX.XX.XXXX

THE SHANGO – RIDDDLE
CODEBREAKER CAPSLOCKWIZARD
READ ON YOUR OWN BUT DO NOT BLAME THE CODE BREAKER
5 more code to go.

[Altruist]

Thank you Mum.  Yes have been reading all along but just being dense may be the problem.  Alex Matthews, yes that is him, see I couldn't recall his name.

I just don't think that anybody living on LieRuba can believe that any of this is going to really solve the corruption problems there, that has to be addressed by the electorate of same.  That's why I was thinking that the loving frog may be upset that this was not going to be brought out into the light.  Don't get me wrong I believe it should be brought out into the light but with the complete details, I don't know.

[Altruist]

My mind is not capable to follow Caps really.  I have read most if not all of the S&S threads, not discounting sometimes the eyes can go forward without really reading, ya know?  Just too many interpretations available & figure if Caps has documentation then he better get it to someone who can do something with it, we certainly can't, you know what I mean?  Otherwise it is kind of futile.

But in my mind I have great hope that this will all eventually come out into the light & it will happen when the parents of Natalee decide it should be so with public stance & statements.  Not movies or books, although they could come later on if they so chose.

Also the round the round the mulberry bush with Peter deVries, very disappointed, he is certainly no Mike Wallace, that is what I expected not year after year updates for gosh sakes, milking an incident until nobody cares any longer as the tease has ruined the interest quotient.

[MumInOhio]

Of course if what I want to believe did happen at some point to establish the corruption would really have thought that complete immunity would have been extended for the endeavor's by our appropriate agencies or would it be treated like it is written about CIA covert actions?  You know, USA knows nothing if the actions are "discovered".  Just trying to understand, obviously having a hard time but if preventative measures were taken & those immunities were not arranged then independant laboratory testing would have been my route probably x 2, certainly not handing it over to the FBI going on record that I had done something for which a corrupt government could come after me for, not knowing definitively that my government was going to protect me & all others.

Guess that is what made me wonder about the parents of Natalee being in agreement about the information & direction of everything involved, cuz if ploys were set in force to divide & conquer that would be devastating, imo.  That's why I just was hoping to find out that both parents are aware of the entire operation or the operations that took place prior to the Persistence arriving on scene, if that is how it was orchestrated as I could see that being done as well.  It was made clear that Tim Miller had a pretty clear idea of the location he wanted to check out & that was known long before the Persistence even filled up the tanks, per se.

I can't figure out Tim and Dave being taken off the Persistence on that wild goose chase.  Thought I read that the tip came through the Embassy?

I would hope that Dave and Beth were on the same page with this.

[Altruist]

Well agree with you there Mum, for sure.  But earlier when I wasn't being so clear Lala's indicated that her guess is that they probably were not communicating at this point, but again she didn't say that she knows that to be the case.

[Altruist]

I also believe that this can all be brought out into the light to expose those corrupt criminal cowards & not jeopardize the actual identities or timeline of when the evidence came to light & available for the family.

Certainly wouldn't want any nationality to come to harm as obviously Americans have been on that hell hole of Aruba & it should come to the international press' attention alerting tourists that this is not a safe destination for anybody & will admit that it bothers me very much that Americans still are going there & putting themselves at risk when the treatment of Natalee & her family really does indicate just how dangerous it is for decent folks.

I really think it is a place for perverts.

[finngirl]

BUCKSHOT has asked Kermit about Caps…My Perceptions…FWIW

Caps led some of us a merry dance around the Shango thread at times. Caps made many off the wall posts…Caps very seldom backed up his posts? Caps “mis-spoke” often, intentionally IMO.  In the beginning, Caps was on posting in Shango all day and night. Think this was until April…Some wondered what he did for a living…lol…He started disappearing for days at a time.

Around April 25th, after being led up the garden path, I was convinced of some things about Caps. My post was misinterpreted…I did not say Caps was a troll.

I do not believe Caps just happened on SM after discussing the Natalee Holloway case. I believe he is part of the plan that has now emerged. You will notice that on a few occasions he revealed the news before it was the news.
 
There are 3 people we have been interested in this case that answers were not forthcoming from Caps.

Caps often took his cue from previous posts…come in a week later with what had been discussed…his posts often echoed the thoughts of other posters. Then if it didn’t fit he would change his mind.

Caps asked questions at times that I felt he already knew the answers to. He exposed much of the corruption in Aruba…All the dirt on all the Ministers and bigwigs.

Both Caps and his friend Carlos Tromp were out to expose that Corruption. Read Caps early posts about the ICC. In the Hague I believe. He said this is the only way for the Family to get Justice for Natalee. I believe this was posted in January.

BTW…Caps posted that he was a Resident Alien, ie US Permanent Resident…his post tells me he is not…

Let me know when to start a new thread…Who is CapsLockWizard and what does he Know?

How am I doing Kermie?

thank you!

(and you worded it so nicely)

I've been bewildered by a lot of the conclusions
since march/april or thereabouts

got my thoughts tangled up in one post
and it came out all backwards
but he/Caps started running w/ that, building on it ...
and I was like WTH?

another time, when we were naming our candidates
for who is shango/simian,
he started laying out a theory re shango's ID
by relating research to a quote from ... simian

conflicting information was enlarged upon,
there was lotsa circular reasoning w/o backup
and many questions ignored for long periods of time

so I'll kick back to lurking, but again, thank you

[johan555]

Goodmorning !
At what time is the show this evening ?
Can we follow it here in the Netherlands ?

[Altruist]

Goodmorning !
At what time is the show this evening ?
Can we follow it here in the Netherlands ?

If IIRC, "On the Record" comes on at 10PM EST, the Fox Network.  I don't get Fox but am hoping that poster's will be typing what they are hearing in the thread from the show.

[MumInOhio]

BUCKSHOT has asked Kermit about Caps…My Perceptions…FWIW

Caps led some of us a merry dance around the Shango thread at times. Caps made many off the wall posts…Caps very seldom backed up his posts? Caps “mis-spoke” often, intentionally IMO.  In the beginning, Caps was on posting in Shango all day and night. Think this was until April…Some wondered what he did for a living…lol…He started disappearing for days at a time.

Around April 25th, after being led up the garden path, I was convinced of some things about Caps. My post was misinterpreted…I did not say Caps was a troll.

I do not believe Caps just happened on SM after discussing the Natalee Holloway case. I believe he is part of the plan that has now emerged. You will notice that on a few occasions he revealed the news before it was the news.
 
There are 3 people we have been interested in this case that answers were not forthcoming from Caps.

Caps often took his cue from previous posts…come in a week later with what had been discussed…his posts often echoed the thoughts of other posters. Then if it didn’t fit he would change his mind.

Caps asked questions at times that I felt he already knew the answers to. He exposed much of the corruption in Aruba…All the dirt on all the Ministers and bigwigs.

Both Caps and his friend Carlos Tromp were out to expose that Corruption. Read Caps early posts about the ICC. In the Hague I believe. He said this is the only way for the Family to get Justice for Natalee. I believe this was posted in January.

BTW…Caps posted that he was a Resident Alien, ie US Permanent Resident…his post tells me he is not…

Let me know when to start a new thread…Who is CapsLockWizard and what does he Know?

How am I doing Kermie?

thank you!

(and you worded it so nicely)

I've been bewildered by a lot of the conclusions
since march/april or thereabouts

got my thoughts tangled up in one post
and it came out all backwards
but he/Caps started running w/ that, building on it ...
and I was like WTH?

another time, when we were naming our candidates
for who is shango/simian,
he started laying out a theory re shango's ID
by relating research to a quote from ... simian

conflicting information was enlarged upon,
there was lotsa circular reasoning w/o backup
and many questions ignored for long periods of time

so I'll kick back to lurking, but again, thank you

Finn..please don't lurk! We need all the Monkeys to work though this mud!

[MumInOhio]

Goodmorning !
At what time is the show this evening ?
Can we follow it here in the Netherlands ?

If IIRC, "On the Record" comes on at 10PM EST, the Fox Network.  I don't get Fox but am hoping that poster's will be typing what they are hearing in the thread from the show.

It is on at 10 and replayed at 12 or 1AM...Not sure how to stay up...go back to bed now I guess!

Johan...I am not sure you can get it. The transcript and video should be out early in the morning, though I am sure the Monkeys will give a play by play...Some are very good at that.

[teacat]

Not lurking Al, just trying to catch up on the posts.

I think Ree is on to the nub of the matter. I tried posting a long missive yesterday that disappeared and I didn't have the strength to rewrite it but it had to do with something Kyle wrote yesterday in the heat of the moment. (and yeah Kyle I know I said I would back off but here goes, first)

He said he found a target on the early morning of the  25th and was asked if he had more he was interested in for the ROV on the 29th. So my BIG questions start there.

1. Was he ASKED the question on the 29th or
2. Did the team determine DAYS before the 29th that the ROVs would do a dive on the 29th? (following me here, ya'll?)
3. WHY KYLE, Why did you say that the people on board knew better than to ask questions of you when YOU seem to be the one with answers? Is this because even on the 25th, 26th, 27th  and 28th, there were people on board that were IN ADDTION to the original team? Like Dateline filming over your shoulders?
4. Kyle never mentioned Dateline being on board in his weblog so how did they get on board, how did they get involved in the first place? Did they offer to help fund the search in exchange for some exclusive? Remember TMiller REALLY REALLY thought Natalee would be found right there, so much so that he made a phone call to Dave H 99.9% certain.
5. I don't recall Dateline mentioning ANYTHING about cloth or items being found and sent off to labs? Anyone else remember this??

SO as a result, I wake up this morning and read REE and think "oh man, this makes most sense."

THEY DID find something big, huge. THEY DIDN'T want the media, the polis, the authorities, no one to know til they recovered "items" themselves for analysis. Did anyone else find it strange that the "shoe" and the "skull" were ON TOP of the open cage door? Not inside, well inside, but on top of the cage door, laying open, like they were tossed in. Who knows how long any of that stuff had been there. But Kyle went off on the posters when he saw the photos on this website. I guess I would too if I were trying to get closure for the family without alerting the very people they didn't want knowing stuff.

And about that same time comes PDV with his undercover footage. Didn't we all think finally, that little jerk will get his! (ok he didn't but I can't think of a nicer place for him than a Thai prison.)

So there's Beth, she believes she knows what the monsters have done. She looks spent and ready to learn to cope and move on. THere is no "discovery of remains" for the media to turn any private burial into a circus and I tell you what, that would have been a nightmare for this poor family. What they have been thru is unbelieveable.

Everything drops off the radar. The FBI releases nothing of importance. Mos is gliding into retirement (have a nice life, get some good rest and comtemplate the misery you leave behind) Anita, think of your son in a Thai prison...... think of his brothers wondering for the rest of their lives jsut what you people did to their home and future.

THere are many mysteries in the past that "we" never learn the finality of, this one is probably going to join the rest. I'm ok with that.
I think I am , at least.

[teacat]

Another thought...

The reason Beth was at peace on February 3rd...the DeVries show was that Natalee's remains had already been Identified.

That would make Robin's posts on whatever that site is called, a diversion. The ones about the DNA made around March, I believe.

Is it possible?

Oh yes Mum I agree....