Natalee Case Discussion #835 6/6/10 - 6/8/10

[Northern Rose]

Van der Sloot is eligible to be held in Piedras Gordas, say
Former head of INPE said Wilfredo Pedraza Ancon's penalty ensures the personal safety of the Dutchman. He said he can not go to the Castro Castro prison overcrowding said.

The Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, the alleged murderer of Stephany Flores Ramirez (21), who remains the last Saturday held in the lockup of the Division of Criminal Investigation (Dirincri), eligible to be detained at maximum security prison in Piedras Gordas Ancon, as the case meets the criteria.

This is considered Wilfredo Pedraza former head of the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE), an entity that will decide what prison should be conducted abroad. He explained that come to carve three considerations: the seriousness of the offense, the history of Van der Sloot and his vocation to escape.

In his opinion, there are other factors that lead to the INPE opt for this decision, one of them to ensure the personal security of the murder charge.

"There are versions abroad who say they do not have the conditions to guarantee the life of this man, which would be ruled out taking him to a prison as Piedras Gordas," he said told the newspaper La República.

Pedraza said that in the screening stage of the prisoner taken into account if the Dutchman had other income to prison for crimes he was accused before and analyze their psychological profile.

He said the alleged murderer could not be held in Lurigancho because there are no security conditions that are required. San Jorge also ruled out, considering that the crime of which he accuses Van der Sloot is of "extreme gravity."

As recalled, a day before the press reported that the citizen has put up a cell in the Miguel Castro Castro prison and that his neighbor would be the Colombian hit man Trujillo Alejandro Ospina, a key element in the crime of Jewish businesswoman Myriam Fefer.

On this prison in Castro Castro stated that there is a problem of internal insecurity and overcrowding.

"The committee classifier takes into account all these factors and decide the penalty, and in this case I will be Ancon segurote" he said.

http://www.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-07-van-der-sloot-califica-para-ser-recluido-en-piedras-gordas-afirman-noticia_270465.html

[texasmom]

Did anyone recognize this as a map for Santiago?  Or maybe it's just a brochure of some type?



Does anyone know where on Hwy 68 iirc that Joran was captured?

Would it be of any interest if one of the friends of Anita had visited Santiago, Valparaíso, and Vina del Mar?  Maybe just coincidence?  Not quite sure of the timing but maybe in the past year?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi%C3%B1a_del_Mar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valpara%C3%ADso

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Santiago+Chile&sll=-33.065363,-71.555672&sspn=0.142422,0.220757&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Santiago,+Chile&ll=-33.360356,-70.977173&spn=1.135546,1.766052&z=9

The closest village was Curacavi. It's on your map.

Thanks msmarple!

http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/

Can someone please bring this over for me? Everytime I try to read it my browser shuts down. TIA

snip

JORAN’S  EXCITEMENT KICKS IN  WHEN ON THE RUN

But he taxi drivers to whom Joran paid $640 to transport him from Lima to Vinya de Mar Chile where he was apprehended, reported that they noticed that their passenger showed signals of nervousness.

snip

Thanks Roxibalboa and Northern Rose!

VERY interesting!

[Puzzler]

I don't think the cover up will fall like a house of cards at all because no matter what is found to have happened, Aruba/Netherlands won't do anything to anybody no matter how badly the may have deliberately obstructed justice.

Aruba will say they are conducting an investigation and then do nothing or even say mistakes were made, what a shame and not do anything at all.  Not to anybody even if they participate to the extent of disposing of remains.

The only way I think anything would ever actually be done is for Interpol to do it and they have to be "invited" and we know Aruba will never do that nor will the Dutch order it done.  I wonder if the U.S. could ask for an Interpol investigation into corruption now with Aruba allowing Joran to sneak off the island with the extradition warrant due any day?

Anna, I think you're absolutely correct.  I had mentioned earlier about things falling like a house of cards; however, I wasn't thinking about legally and the authorities of Aruba doing anything about it.  What I was thinking of is that little bits and pieces of information start flowing out from all sorts of people about happenings at the time.  I believe many, many people are actually involved in the cover-up and/or have been told about it from those who were involved. 

I gave up long ago on Aruba handling anything responsibly and hold zero hope.  I still have a little hope that since Joran's been captured and once it's realized he's not getting out, that tidbits will start coming out...more and more...from others (other than Joran, etc.).

[SunnyinTX]

Joran wants a Dutch Lawyer
   
   
 (AP) - The murder suspect Joran van der Sloot wants a Dutch lawyer.  This reports the newssite Peru21 using information from his Peruvian lawyer.
 
 It is unclear whether his lawyer in the Netherlands, Bert de Rooij, will assume his defense in Peru.  De Rooij was right not respond Monday.  According to the Peruvian lawyer Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid, Joran is looking for contact with his mother, whom he spoke by phone Thursday.  If the counselor to make way for a Dutch colleague, is unclear .
 De Rooij said last week that he tried to advise Joran, but did not heard from him.  Van der Sloot mailed him Thursday after his arrest in Chile from a police department with questions.  The lawyer has "numerous times"tried to call Van der Sloot  but got no answer.

 The Peruvian police is investigating a laptop in the backpack of the 22-year-old Van der Sloot had on him and possibly belonged to the murdered Stephany Flores.  Her father explained that his daughter the day before the murder, had given her one thousand U.S. dollars to buy a laptop. Van der Sloot had Chilean, Bolivian and Peruvian money.  Monday, the first results of the autopsy to come outside.

http://binnenland.nieuws.nl/599169

well crap, another contradictory report in several ways...now it states he wants a Dutch attorney. It was previously stated he wanted a Peruvian attorney. Now this states he had Chilean, Bolivian and Peruvian money....when a previous one stated differently....unless this is he money he said he had back in his hotel.  Monday, the first results of the autopsy....but her father has already stated there were no signs of rape or intercourse.......  my head is spinning

[seemeatthebeach]

Does anyone know if a "date rape drug" has a hypnotic effect to where the user can pretty much be commanded to do anything? 

If so, that would account for the odd interaction between Joran and Stephany in the video at the hostel...earlier discussion was that it was odd that she just held her head down and there was no conversation going on between them. 

One theory I have is that Stephany was unaccustomed to going into a dive motel and was keeping her head low because of embarrassment.  I believe she was there to get her money and go.  If she was drugged, that could be another reason she was detached from Joran and the situation on cameras.  JMHO

My first thought when I saw Stephany in the hotel video was she looked embarrassed. I would think she was probably very recognizable considering who her father is. Maybe she didn't want to be seen recognized in the
hotel.......it looked more like a dump/dive than any hotel to me. From her father's own mouth, he said Stephany was raised only seeing the more wealthy ways of living. She would have been uncomfortable in such seedy accommodations.IMO

Question: Did Stephany's father say who was selling her a laptop. Was it Joran? Maybe that's how he got her up to his room. He said he gave her $1000 for it, but I couldn't translate if she was buying it from a person or a store.

[Tylergal]

What is it with these murderers who dye their hair? Didn't that Scott Peterson do the same thing after he murdered his wife?  Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knows for a fact whether or not Peru has the death penalty?  I heard O'Reilly say they would execute him there, and I was hoping they would. 

Hi Darleen -

I don`t think Joran qualifies for death in Peru. I think they may still have it, but it is only used on the rarest of occasions.

He`ll get many many years - maybe life, I think.

...and even a few short years in a Peru jail is a death sentence for Joran. IMO

I don`t think he has the skills. I think he has just enough skills to get himself killed in prison.

I think I heard Megan Kelly say they do not have the death penalty.

[Northern Rose]

No game on Joran van der Sloot
Vs Lama. Joran is a title created by SenseStudios, in which a caller must spitting image of the alleged murderer of Stephany Flores.

The company has created the game SenseStudios vs Lama. Joran, in which a caller must spitting image of Joran van der Sloot, the alleged murderer of the young Peruvian Stephany Flores.


For each shot (spit) smiling face appears successful journalist Peter Rudolf de Vries, who investigated the case of the crime of Joran van der Sloot against American Natalee Holloway in Aruba.

http://dev.rpp.com.pe/2010-06-07-crean-videojuego-sobre-joran-van-der-sloot-noticia_270492.html

[Ono]

Appreciate all the links & updates!

[Tylergal]

Hi, Ms.Marple.  If Glenda's saying he told where Natalee's buried, why doesn't she use her so-called sharp reporting skills and find out what he said and tell everyone?  Maybe she's saving that information to try to cut a deal in case she's tried for obstructing justice.

I was wondering if she was one of the ones who was paid off when Joran was telling Greta another one might not be a police officer.  If I recall correctly, she was all into helping Beth and suddenly, she turned on her after visiting Anita.  Do you think $50,000 might change her mind? 

[Tylergal]

cecilita - hello, I am not the best to answer you, but no, I don't think we have heard of any other girls with Joran in Peru. But if Joran was slipping drugs (date rape drugs - roofies?) in drinks, there might be someone there who doesn't even remember.

darleen - hello again! I think there's speculation that (a) Stephany's father, in his compassion for Natalee's family, might agree to Joran serving his sentence in The Netherlands, IF (b) Joran tells where Natalee's remains are. (They better watch the fine print on that one, though - Joran's "in the ocean" just can't be allowed to suffice. At whose expense would that recovery be, and how long before Aruba gets its hands into it?)

Wow!  I didn't know it was even being considered for Joran to serve his sentence in The Netherlands!  I thought any negotiations would only be for a better prison within Peru.  In the end this is likely a decision the three judge panel will make anyway but I do not want Joran to be able to go back to The NL at all.  They will release him or let him live in posh surroundings.

I hope he not only serves any sentence he receives in Peru but also in the high-altitude prisons where it is bitterly cold and has no heat, electricity for the prisoners and they have to buy their own food if they have enough to eat.

I hope that group of terrorist-loving lawyers at the Hague and the UN do not enter into this lest they give Joran a scholarship to Harvard. 

[SunnyinTX]

What is it with these murderers who dye their hair? Didn't that Scott Peterson do the same thing after he murdered his wife?  Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knows for a fact whether or not Peru has the death penalty?  I heard O'Reilly say they would execute him there, and I was hoping they would. 

Hi Darleen -

I don`t think Joran qualifies for death in Peru. I think they may still have it, but it is only used on the rarest of occasions.

He`ll get many many years - maybe life, I think.

...and even a few short years in a Peru jail is a death sentence for Joran. IMO

I don`t think he has the skills. I think he has just enough skills to get himself killed in prison.

I think I heard Megan Kelly say they do not have the death penalty.

hi Tyler!   good to see you!!

[Edward]

Joran is playing the game... Again

Peru better have some backbone or Joran and his Dutch game player attorneys will walk all over their system of justice and Joran will be camping in a prison in the Netherlands in the end and released after only 12 years.

[SunnyinTX]

Hi, Ms.Marple.  If Glenda's saying he told where Natalee's buried, why doesn't she use her so-called sharp reporting skills and find out what he said and tell everyone?  Maybe she's saving that information to try to cut a deal in case she's tried for obstructing justice.

I was wondering if she was one of the ones who was paid off when Joran was telling Greta another one might not be a police officer.  If I recall correctly, she was all into helping Beth and suddenly, she turned on her after visiting Anita.  Do you think $50,000 might change her mind? 

In a heart beat....it would take her several lifetimes to make 50K on her knees

[SunnyinTX]

Joran is playing the game... Again

Peru better have some backbone or Joran and his Dutch game player attorneys will walk all over their system of justice and Joran will be camping in a prison in the Netherlands in the end and released after only 12 years.

YEP!!!!

[Tylergal]

Puzzler,

When mixed with alcohol, the effects of that become unpredictible.  We have had monkeys who posted personal experiences of becoming compliant after being drugged even if that is not the expected result.  Normally in medical lit when it says hypnotic, it means sleep-inducing.  But we have had those who said they became completely compliant and obedient and didn't know why and didn't recall walking and talking until others told them what they did.

So I personally think that it could account for Stephany Flores different mannerisms but JMO.  And that of her father apparently.  Mixing alcohol with most drugs does make a difference.  And the wrappers were found in her vehicle.

I heard Mark Furman saying it was found either in Joran's baggage or in the car that he had abandoned.  Cannot recall which.  Does anyone recall that?

[klaasend]

http://www.sense-studios.com/lamavsjoran/

Click on the link above to play the game:

[loca]

What is it with these murderers who dye their hair? Didn't that Scott Peterson do the same thing after he murdered his wife?  Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knows for a fact whether or not Peru has the death penalty?  I heard O'Reilly say they would execute him there, and I was hoping they would. 

Hi Darleen -

I don`t think Joran qualifies for death in Peru. I think they may still have it, but it is only used on the rarest of occasions.

He`ll get many many years - maybe life, I think.

...and even a few short years in a Peru jail is a death sentence for Joran. IMO

I don`t think he has the skills. I think he has just enough skills to get himself killed in prison.

I think I heard Megan Kelly say they do not have the death penalty.

hi Tyler!   good to see you!!

under peruvian law
only cause for the death penalty is! treason and killing a police officer.
its been all over the news.

[Northern Rose]

Dutchman suspected murderer hits his head

  Nervous and worried is the Dutchman Joran van der Sloot at the headquarters of the Dirincri, who on one occasion was caught by officers banging his head into the elevator. To prevent self-injury, four police officers guarded the jail where the alleged murderer of sleep Stephany Flores, victimized in the TAC hotel located in Miraflores.

According to a police source, the alien speaks of other items normally. However, when addressing the case of Stephany "gets nervous and does not know what to say."

"He is calm, at times is quiet, thoughtful and even nervous. We tried to resuscitate him at all times, although the situation is difficult. While trying to deny his crime, he knows in his conscience that there is much evidence that could incriminate" said the source.

Last night he came to the Homicide Division of the Dutchman's defense Dirincri assigned by the Public Ministry, as the Consulate of the Netherlands is not supporting.

It was learned that the prosecution would have appointed Rosa Luisa Camargo Madrid as the foreign office lawyer and translator to Mauritius Stains.

http://www.aja.com.pe/aja/seccion.php?txtSecci_id=39&txtNota_id=367663

[crazybabyborg]

I need my ROFLMAO smilie

First this.....



Then this response, LOL

OMG!!!! ROFLMAO!!!! Klaas, that made my day!!!
Why am I almost envious of them being able to spar with Renho????? It's like taking candy from a baby, but I'd enjoy seeing the slime trail as she sluts slugs away!

[Puzzler]

Puzzler,

When mixed with alcohol, the effects of that become unpredictible.  We have had monkeys who posted personal experiences of becoming compliant after being drugged even if that is not the expected result.  Normally in medical lit when it says hypnotic, it means sleep-inducing.  But we have had those who said they became completely compliant and obedient and didn't know why and didn't recall walking and talking until others told them what they did.

So I personally think that it could account for Stephany Flores different mannerisms but JMO.  And that of her father apparently.  Mixing alcohol with most drugs does make a difference.  And the wrappers were found in her vehicle.

I heard Mark Furman saying it was found either in Joran's baggage or in the car that he had abandoned.  Cannot recall which.  Does anyone recall that?

found on the seat of Stephany's car that Joran abandoned

Joran abandoned the car in a very sleezy part of town