Lively Case Discussion #649 6/30 - 7/3/2007am

[San]

If Joran did not bring up the fisherman's hut why were the Kalpoe's asked about it the same day?

Joran was a juvie... do you think Paulis would have been present during Joran's interview? (I expect he was)

Now to me either the 1st lie started to fall apart at this time and no one did chit about it for another 6 days ... OR  the seed of the 2nd lie was planted at this time .

According to the book > Jacobs, VDStraten, Paulus and Joran were present for the 5/31 statement. Joran says he was surprised that Paulus asked VDStraten if he could sit on the interview, but says VDStraten had no choice in the matter because Joran was a minor. Also goes on to blame Paulus by saying this forced him to continue with the HI lie, implyng that he would have told the *truth* if just Jacobs/VDStraten were there.

Why would Joran be surprised that Paulus asked if he could sit in on the interview.  After all he was a minor.

He was surprised because Joran knew Paulus had something to do with the crime.

[mrs. red]

San... you are right, completely right on target.

[Easywriter]

I made the mistake of reading all the stuff about the boycott, and how a few people are "in disagreement" and voicing their opinions.  I think some people get away with way too much in the name of "disagreeing" with the boycott.  I just don't want to hear it.  No one can change my mind.  Aruba had no sympathy for Beth, Dave and Natalee, and I have no sympathy for them.  Period.

I agree ... although I don't read at BFN  -

Easy,... the pictures are nice, but how about putting them in the lounge???

what does that mean??

That means delete them if you wish.  I don't much care.  For some reason pictures of me and my family upset people on this forum.  Delete them, delete them, delete them!

How about putting them on your blog???? I simply ask that they not be posted in this thread... they don't particulary upset me but they aren't about Natalee either.

My mother will be 79 this week and I thought it was a fitting tribute to post her picture.  I’m sorry that her picture upset you.  I will post it on my blog.

[wreck]

Blonde: I have seen that Affidavit

After skeeters passed they said they he was paying off people to lie and say that Joran assaulted them. Now they say beth was bribing witnesses.

I know for a fact that at least one of those girls called the FBI. A Couple of them went to the ALE before Natalee was missing and nothing was ever done!!!

Oberserver ... according to  Freddy's attorney you are right on!

Janet


DECATUR DAILY
August 31, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — ...... A third man was arrested with the Kalpoes but his lawyer said Monday that it was unrelated to Holloway's disappearance.

Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis, a friend of van der Sloot and the Kalpoes, was arrested on suspicion of having unspecified "physical contact" with a female minor, said his lawyer, Diana Emerencia.

Zedan-Arambatzis, 21, is also suspected of photographing the girl in "tempting poses" and showing the images to other people, Emerencia said.

The Kalpoe brothers and van der Sloot are also suspected of involvement in the incidents, which allegedly occurred before Holloway disappeared, she said.

Emerencia said Zedan-Arambatzis has denied having any physical contact with the girl or taking photos of her, but has admitted to being present when the photos were taken.

The prosecutor's office declined to comment on the case.

One of the suspected charges was sex with a unconscious female!!! Sick isnt it?? Certainly wasnt just because they took pictures of a teen and passed them around.

...I always thought "sex with an unconcious female" was RAPE!!!!

[Tamikosmom]

Hi gang...
Just wondering about something...

About Joran's 5/31/2005 statement that he recalls in this statement

JORAN 06/14/2005 STATEMENT

At approximately 11.15 am my father and me left the school grounds and we went to the police station in Bubali. My father and I talked somewhat about the missing girl. I don't remember what was said. One thing my father certainly said to me was to tell the truth. My father was right, I should have done that. I had told my father that we had dropped the girl off at the hotel. My father also told me that I was going to be interviewed as a witness. On the way to Bubali police station I called Deepak. I said to Deepak that I was en route to make a statement to the police about the missing girl. Deepaks answer to this was: "Shit". Deepak told me to stick to the story that we had dropped the girl off at the Holiday Inn. I couldn't properly talk to Deepak because my dad was in the car. At approximately 12.30 my dad and me had arrived at Bubali police station. I was interviewed as a witness. I cannot remember that in my statement I had said that I had been at Fisherman's Huts with Natalee. I might be possible that I stated that. During the interview I called Deepak on his mobile. I had asked him what clothes Natalee had been wearing that night. He told me that Natalee was wearing a blue skirt and a blue top. I also said to Deepak that the police would come and pick him to so that he could give a statement. Deepak had told me that he would come to the police station on his own.

If Joran did not bring up the fisherman's hut why were the Kalpoe's asked about it the same day?

Joran was a juvie... do you think Paulis would have been present during Joran's interview? (I expect he was)

Now to me either the 1st lie started to fall apart at this time and no one did chit about it for another 6 days ... OR  the seed of the 2nd lie was planted at this time .
   

Joran mentioned the Fisherman Hut account on his missing May 31, 2005 statement or ... interrogators would not be questioning Deepak and Satish in regards to this issue.  The implication is that Deepak and Satish's attorney/s should have received a copy of Joran's May 31, 2005 statement from the prosecutor.  This statement has never been revealed ... Beth thinks that she saw it torn up on Dennis Jacobs desk on the morney of June 1, 2005 ... when her statement was taken.

Janet


Deepak Kalpoe
Witness Statement
May 31, 2005

On your question if Joran and the girl had stepped from my car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea; I will answer you no.


Satish Kalpoe
Witness Statement
May 31, 2005

On your question if Joran and the girl had gotten out of the car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea;
I answer you no. Joran and the girl never got out of Deepak’s car.


Vivian Van Der Biezen - Spokesperson for the Prosescutor
NANCE GRACE
June 10, 2005

GRACE: Why is it that the defense attorneys for the other four have not been allowed to see this Dutch boy`s statement, the son of the Aruban judicial official?

VAN DER BIEZEN: This is because when a defense attorney has a client, then the defense attorney will have only the statements that relate to his clients. If the defense attorney doesn`t have information about one of the suspects, this means that this suspect did not have any accusations against his client.

[bleachedblack]

If Joran did not bring up the fisherman's hut why were the Kalpoe's asked about it the same day?

Joran was a juvie... do you think Paulis would have been present during Joran's interview? (I expect he was)

Now to me either the 1st lie started to fall apart at this time and no one did chit about it for another 6 days ... OR  the seed of the 2nd lie was planted at this time .

According to the book > Jacobs, VDStraten, Paulus and Joran were present for the 5/31 statement. Joran says he was surprised that Paulus asked VDStraten if he could sit on the interview, but says VDStraten had no choice in the matter because Joran was a minor. Also goes on to blame Paulus by saying this forced him to continue with the HI lie, implyng that he would have told the *truth* if just Jacobs/VDStraten were there.

Why would Joran be surprised that Paulus asked if he could sit in on the interview.  After all he was a minor.

He was surprised because Joran knew Paulus had something to do with the crime.

He was suprised because it is not legal would be my guess. I should think, as in this country you can have a lawyer present but not a parent. Just because your parent is lawyer does not change the law.

[oldfart]

If Joran did not bring up the fisherman's hut why were the Kalpoe's asked about it the same day?

Joran was a juvie... do you think Paulis would have been present during Joran's interview? (I expect he was)

Now to me either the 1st lie started to fall apart at this time and no one did chit about it for another 6 days ... OR  the seed of the 2nd lie was planted at this time .

According to the book > Jacobs, VDStraten, Paulus and Joran were present for the 5/31 statement. Joran says he was surprised that Paulus asked VDStraten if he could sit on the interview, but says VDStraten had no choice in the matter because Joran was a minor. Also goes on to blame Paulus by saying this forced him to continue with the HI lie, implyng that he would have told the *truth* if just Jacobs/VDStraten were there.

Continue the lie ???  They did until detainded but the HUTS  came up here..

[Observer]

Blonde: I have seen that Affidavit

DECATUR DAILY
August 31, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — ...... A third man was arrested with the Kalpoes but his lawyer said Monday that it was unrelated to Holloway's disappearance.

Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis, a friend of van der Sloot and the Kalpoes, was arrested on suspicion of having unspecified "physical contact" with a female minor, said his lawyer, Diana Emerencia.

Zedan-Arambatzis, 21, is also suspected of photographing the girl in "tempting poses" and showing the images to other people, Emerencia said.

The Kalpoe brothers and van der Sloot are also suspected of involvement in the incidents, which allegedly occurred before Holloway disappeared, she said.

Emerencia said Zedan-Arambatzis has denied having any physical contact with the girl or taking photos of her, but has admitted to being present when the photos were taken.

The prosecutor's office declined to comment on the case.

One of the suspected charges was sex with a unconscious female!!! Sick isnt it?? Certainly wasnt just because they took pictures of a teen and passed them around.

...I always thought "sex with an unconcious female" was RAPE!!!!

Apparently not in Aruba!!! You remember that story after NH dissapeared of the teenagers who raped a teenage girl and video taped it and passed it around? She had to move off of the island!!! It is quite clear that people live in fear on that island if crimes are committed against them..I guess tourists are on the very bottom of society and women just a tad higher.

[mrs. red]

Wreck, it completely and utterly is considered rape in the civilized world....however, we are talking about Aruba.

[mrs. red]

*******,
 I had forgotten that story... (there have been so many)!  Wasn't a teacher standing around during the attack also????  that is amazing to me the attitude about women on that island and the women on the island just accept it!

[Angiex911dsptchr]

EASY

 Your mother is gorgeous.. I saw the photo earlier.
 I betcha she is still precious and beautiful today at age 79.
 I hope your mom has a wonderful birthday  
Easy... None started a music thread in the lounge..  Check it out!
Post your fac songs in there hon. I am hoggin up alot of space there!

[wreck]

Wreck, it completely and utterly is considered rape in the civilized world....however, we are talking about Aruba.

Yes! ..... about one step away from the Arab world where they would stone to death the "unconscious female" for "dishonoring" their family!!!

[Tiger]

Easy,I am happy your mother is alive and I am happy to see her picture.   Now back to aruba,That was RAPE.The question I have is,how and why was gvc's sister not raped by 12,as joran talks a median age for sex,..Off limits,I guess.

[bleachedblack]

Iran to hang teenage girl attacked by rapists
Sat. 07 Jan 2006

Iran Focus

Tehran, Iran, Jan. 07 – An Iranian court has sentenced a teenage rape victim to death by hanging after she weepingly confessed that she had unintentionally killed a man who had tried to rape both her and her niece.

The state-run daily Etemaad reported on Saturday that 18-year-old Nazanin confessed to stabbing one of three men who had attacked the pair along with their boyfriends while they were spending some time in a park west of the Iranian capital in March 2005.

Nazanin, who was 17 years old at the time of the incident, said that after the three men started to throw stones at them, the two girls’ boyfriends quickly escaped on their motorbikes leaving the pair helpless.

She described how the three men pushed her and her 16-year-old niece Somayeh onto the ground and tried to rape them, and said that she took out a knife from her pocket and stabbed one of the men in the hand.

As the girls tried to escape, the men once again attacked them, and at this point, Nazanin said, she stabbed one of the men in the chest. The teenage girl, however, broke down in tears in court as she explained that she had no intention of killing the man but was merely defending herself and her younger niece from rape, the report said.

The court, however, issued on Tuesday a sentence for Nazanin to be hanged to death.

Last week, a court in the city of Rasht, northern Iran, sentenced Delara Darabi to death by hanging charged with murder when she was 17 years old. Darabi has denied the charges.

In August 2004, Iran’s Islamic penal system sentenced a 16-year-old girl, Atefeh Rajabi, to death after a sham trial, in which she was accused of committing “acts incompatible with chastity”.

The teenage victim had no access to a lawyer at any stage and efforts by her family to retain one were to no avail. Atefeh personally defended herself and told the religious judge that he should punish those who force women into adultery, not the victims. She was eventually hanged in public in the northern town of Neka.

http://tinyurl.com/338t6p

http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/10-26g-04.asp

[igsigs]

Joran's 5/31 statement is a HUGE problem for ALE and PROS.

PVs that follow give a clear indication that Joran introduced at least part of the beach story on 5/31.

From the start ALE had a missing persons case where the last 3 people seen with the victim were lying and they knew it. A reasonable explanation as to why ALE waited 10 days to interview them, get them on record, has never been given. Because    it does not exist.

[Observer]

*******,
 I had forgotten that story... (there have been so many)!  Wasn't a teacher standing around during the attack also????  that is amazing to me the attitude about women on that island and the women on the island just accept it!

Not sure about a teacher but that wouldn't surprise me..I remember her family saying that they had to live there and they didnt want any problems. She was sent to a neighboring Island with the grandmother or something..

I deal with dutch people every day and they are much more open with sex and male chovanism or whatever you want to call it..We know from Joran that Holland is much stricter than Aruba..lol..The mentality towards women is definetly much diffrent not only there but in many places in the world.

I guess when you live on a tiny island filled with drugs and a corrupt govt and you are rich and connected you can do just about anything you want. I can only imagine the parties that were thrown at Lorenzo's House and the Lions Den. Who would dare speak up if there was a crime that happened at either of these places?

[bleachedblack]

As the above articles remind us. Rape is a twisted word among twisted minds. I have no doubt those in Aruba somehow rationalize what they do.

[Tiger]

Rape is sick.Aruba is sick,thus aruba tolerates rape.Why?The need to dominate and degrade.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

Rape is sick.Aruba is sick,thus aruba tolerates rape.Why?The need to dominate and degrade.

 I agree Tiger  .. it is sick!

[Observer]

Joran's 5/31 statement is a HUGE problem for ALE and PROS.

PVs that follow give a clear indication that Joran introduced at least part of the beach story on 5/31.

From the start ALE had a missing persons case where the last 3 people seen with the victim were lying and they knew it. A reasonable explanation as to why ALE waited 10 days to interview them, get them on record, has never been given. Because    it does not exist.

Just one of the many reasons why they never wanted the FBI involved or to share any info with the family.  Also explains part of the reason they have a gag order on the case and why they will never launch a internal Investigation.

Beth should tell her story again about her relationship with Karen Janssen. When the blood turned into Chocolate and other major suspicious events..Janssen all of a sudden stopped communicating with Beth. Wouldnt return her phone calls.