Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 - 12/31/08

[wreck]

I'm 10 pages behind, but need to jump in as I just saw the "Freebirds Letter". I think some apologies are due by some "old members" here! One of my best friend's twin brother was shot by a robber in his own driveway last night here in Dallas. Thank God, he will survive with a broken rib, torn bicep and some minor internal injuries. I will try to catch up!

Once Again, THANK-YOU KERMIT!!!

[Kermit]

I'll be back later.

Gonna go work on that interesting reveal.

[jen3560]

John Silvetti had ONLY Aruban divers at the cage site to retrieve the evidence.
Now why is that Idstlou?

My understanding Kermit is they had no choice.

Then it should have been obvious to John S. from the getgo that the outcome was given.  Logic dictates that an endeavor with the enemy who had prevented justice from prevailing since the getgo ... was for naught.  Justice for Natalee Holloway did not stand a chance of prevailing and ... closure for her family did not stand a chance of happening.

So what was John S. motivation in regards to the Persistence undertaking?

Janet

______


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120

what lou posted is actually incorrect.  The DID have a choice.  A representative from the FBI could have been aboard the Persistence to retain their initially granted "*******" role in this investigation- instead, the Persistence had a film crew aboard.  Who they (John Silvetti) then proceeded to remove from the boat before the Dec 30 dive, along with Tim Miller.

 

So they chose Money over Justice??

No, they DIDN'T have a choice...as we learned before..FBI were there just as observers, they have no power over the Arubans while in Aruban territory,.

Maybe re-read my post?  that's exactly what I said.  FBI has an ******* role - Persistence could have had them aboard to do just that.

Then maybe Natalee's family could have been able to bring her home.

[jen3560]

Jen you are one hell of a lady
My respect to you, always.

Thank you, my friend.

And mine to you, always!

[bastibro]

However it`s my opinion to that this ARE human remains(not the thing that looked like a skull)

Maybe.  Have you been able to put that to scale with the 'skull'?  That would be interesting to see.

Yes, i was searching for reasons to exclude, but came to the conclusion that the size proportionally fits to the cage.

The thing`thought to be a skull` i did exclude. A human skull would take almost 1 third of the cage height.

Just measured the width of my daughter's skull.  It is 4 1/2 inches.  Height of skull is about 5 inches (without mandible).  If cage is 2.5 feet high (30 inches), the skull would not fill that much. 
[/quote]

You may have said before and I missed it...is your daughter close to Natalee's age or an adult?
[/quote]

That quote is not mine. I only have sons

The skull in the cage is around 4.5 inches. Thats way to small for a skull, even without mandible.

The height of a caucasian human skull, without mandible would be around 6.3 inches.

When you look at the image, knowing the measurements of the cage, it`s not in scale at all IMHO.

[Kermit]

I'm 10 pages behind, but need to jump in as I just saw the "Freebirds Letter". I think some apologies are due by some "old members" here! One of my best friend's twin brother was shot by a robber in his own driveway last night here in Dallas. Thank God, he will survive with a broken rib, torn bicep and some minor internal injuries. I will try to catch up!

Once Again, THANK-YOU KERMIT!!!

oh wreck that is horrible.
Thank you for the thank you. No need. I knew many times you were right on, but I could not say anything to you. But just letting you know, you're thinking is right on.
Hope your friend gets better soon.

[Helen Back]

You still didn't answer my question. Do the CURRENT Freebirds endorse your letter that was posted "by the Freebirds".           

Let's first get this technically correct.  My letter was posted by Klaas.  Not "by the Freebirds".  My letter was signed by me - not "by the Freebirds".

Now that's straight -
One member didn't want the group's name dragged through all of this by YOU.

Other than that - no problems.

Can you move on now?

Your letter was posted with a heading that said letter from the Freebirds. I am just asking if they endorsed your letter.

The letter was not the first one sent over by the Freebirds.  My guess is that Klaas recognized the delivery method.  Many people post what the "monkeys" say and it doesn't usually pertain to Red. I don't care if the current hidey hole residents endorse the post.  I believe a former Freebird Adm, with first hand knowledge of the situation, shared her/his knowledge. Could we possibly get past how we found out and just get back to dealing with the info??  sheesh

That is exactly the case and for the life of me, I don't understand why that should be an issue.

Just had to jump in here to say this was easy to see by anyone who read the post, Klass. 

I just have to say that I haven't posted much lately cuz it's been a free for all sometimes, and I typically stand clear of "bar room brawls".  I'm just smart like that, and it's how I got to be so old.

I have to say thanks to all the monkeys WORLD WIDE who continue to love and support Natalee and her family.  If not for the dedication of so many, and the courage to tell the truth, this travesty would have been covered up a thousand times.........but it won't happen here.  Thank God.

I am so thankful for Kermit, Wingnut, and Jen, and everyone here who stands with the girl.  If one of my children were missing, I would pray for the help of a group like this one.

I say Aruba has had more than enough time to pull together an investigation, and the KLPD had their chance at integrity, but chose to participate in the cover up.   There were not enough members of the Dutch Parliament who were ready to stand in their integrity and call for an honest investigation.  Help from the Dutch is not on the way.  Natalee and her family deserve for the truth to be told and I say it's long past time.  There's nothing to lose, at this point, by telling the truth, and there's video evidence of the continuing Aruban cover up.  It's time to show it to the world, and I hope JQK and PRdV do it now.   

Thanks to all the monkeys, for your steadfast faith and commitment.

Happy Trails to our dearest Peaches, until we meet again.

Justice for Natalee in 2009!

[texasmom]

I'm 10 pages behind, but need to jump in as I just saw the "Freebirds Letter". I think some apologies are due by some "old members" here! One of my best friend's twin brother was shot by a robber in his own driveway last night here in Dallas. Thank God, he will survive with a broken rib, torn bicep and some minor internal injuries. I will try to catch up!

Once Again, THANK-YOU KERMIT!!!

I started to ask earlier...where is wreck?

I'm so sorry to hear about your friends brother, but am very relieved that he will be o.k.

and I agree THANK YOU KERMIT!!!!!  And wingnut and jen!!!!!!!

[bastibro]

However it`s my opinion to that this ARE human remains(not the thing that looked like a skull)

Maybe.  Have you been able to put that to scale with the 'skull'?  That would be interesting to see.

Yes, i was searching for reasons to exclude, but came to the conclusion that the size proportionally fits to the cage.

The thing`thought to be a skull` i did exclude. A human skull would take almost 1 third of the cage height.

Just measured the width of my daughter's skull.  It is 4 1/2 inches.  Height of skull is about 5 inches (without mandible).  If cage is 2.5 feet high (30 inches), the skull would not fill that much. 

You may have said before and I missed it...is your daughter close to Natalee's age or an adult?
[/quote]

That quote is not mine. I only have sons

The skull in the cage is around 4.5 inches. Thats way to small for a skull, even without mandible.

The height of a caucasian human skull, without mandible would be around 6.3 inches.

When you look at the image, knowing the measurements of the cage, it`s not in scale at all IMHO.

[/quote]

[Tamikosmom]

Also Kyle stated I think here at SM that John did not get the "credit he deserved" in the Dateline show airing.

I'm not sure what kind of credit John was expecting.

oceanexploration
Re: Ocean Search - Aruba - December 2007
« Reply #139 on: February 23, 2008, 11:03:29 PM »

My main regret with the broadcast is John Silvetti not getting the credit he was due.  John's the owner of the Persistence, owner of Marine Surveys LLC, and the field project manager of the search. 

Regardless how good of a production it was - Generally speaking, there should never be a broadcast giving details about an active investigation.  When the investigation is complete and no longer potentially sensitive to either the case, victims family, or suspect (s), then sure... why not broadcast it.  It is irresponsible and potentially damaging to do what they did (broadcasting the show while the search is still active) and they broke their agreement with Tim and John to make this production.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2438.msg354749;topicseen#msg354749

[texasmom]

Just a reminder for those who wanted to view it and missed it.  E! will be showing the News Special "The Final Hours of Natalee Holloway" again at midnight tonight my time which is Central.

[Buckeye]

However it`s my opinion to that this ARE human remains(not the thing that looked like a skull)

Maybe.  Have you been able to put that to scale with the 'skull'?  That would be interesting to see.

Yes, i was searching for reasons to exclude, but came to the conclusion that the size proportionally fits to the cage.

The thing`thought to be a skull` i did exclude. A human skull would take almost 1 third of the cage height.

Just measured the width of my daughter's skull.  It is 4 1/2 inches.  Height of skull is about 5 inches (without mandible).  If cage is 2.5 feet high (30 inches), the skull would not fill that much. 

You may have said before and I missed it...is your daughter close to Natalee's age or an adult?
[/quote]

That quote is not mine. I only have sons

The skull in the cage is around 4.5 inches. Thats way to small for a skull, even without mandible.

The height of a caucasian human skull, without mandible would be around 6.3 inches.

When you look at the image, knowing the measurements of the cage, it`s not in scale at all IMHO.

[/quote]

In metric:

http://www.donsmaps.com/images9/kostenkifig1415.jpg

[truthseeker2]

However it`s my opinion to that this ARE human remains(not the thing that looked like a skull)

Maybe.  Have you been able to put that to scale with the 'skull'?  That would be interesting to see.

Yes, i was searching for reasons to exclude, but came to the conclusion that the size proportionally fits to the cage.

The thing`thought to be a skull` i did exclude. A human skull would take almost 1 third of the cage height.

Just measured the width of my daughter's skull.  It is 4 1/2 inches.  Height of skull is about 5 inches (without mandible).  If cage is 2.5 feet high (30 inches), the skull would not fill that much. 

You may have said before and I missed it...is your daughter close to Natalee's age or an adult?

That quote is not mine. I only have sons

The skull in the cage is around 4.5 inches. Thats way to small for a skull, even without mandible.

The height of a caucasian human skull, without mandible would be around 6.3 inches.

When you look at the image, knowing the measurements of the cage, it`s not in scale at all IMHO.

[/quote]


[/quote]

From the angle of the ROV it's hard to tell.  But, if the height of the trap is 2 1/2 ft, then that does make the skull look awfully small.

[klaasend]

Just a thought, Kyle is the one who suggested the size of the trap.  We really don't know for sure the exact size except from what he has said.

[anidac]

Long time no see my old Monkey friends!  What's cook'in?

[Tamikosmom]

No, they DIDN'T have a choice...as we learned before..FBI were there just as observers, they have no power over the Arubans while in Aruban territory,.

Maybe re-read my post?  that's exactly what I said.  FBI has an ******* role - Persistence could have had them aboard to do just that.

Then maybe Natalee's family could have been able to bring her home.

This is the point that those who are upholding Kyle Kingsman and John Silvetti do not get

jen ... if the contents of that cage/trap was Natalee Holloway's remains and ... there was safeguards had been put into place in regards to the chain of custody ... maybe the family would have been afforded the opportunity to bring their beloved home ... home to rest on American soil.

Considering the domino effect of accountability is so far reaching ... justice for Natalee Holloway is never going to come from an Aruban or Dutch court.  Closure for Natalee Holloway's family should have been the primary objective of the Persistent undertaking.

The betrayal of Natalee Holloway was outright despicable.  The betrayal of the family was despicable.  The betrayal of those who sacrificially donated was diespicable.

Janet

+++++

'Scarborough Country' for July 14
updated 8:45 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 15, 2005

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER: Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/
 

[Magnolia]

Just a thought, Kyle is the one who suggested the size of the trap.  We really don't know for sure the exact size except from what he has said.

There is also Kyle's superimposed image of Natalee that seems to fit
the scene proportions exactly.

[klaasend]

Long time no see my old Monkey friends!  What's cook'in?

I Anidac - good to see you.  Too much to explain.  If you haven't been following along then I'm affraid you are on your own.

[Ree]

ldstlou - I know you are only trying to stand up and protect Kyle and the crew of the Persistence against those who may have questions regarding some of the things Kyle has said, etc.

You are standing up for what you believe in and that is to be commended, however, what if you are wrong?  I'm not saying it's so but what if you and Natalee's family are being lied to?

When things don't seem right, we take a closer look.   Is that so wrong?

Hypothetical:

One of Joran's friends is posting in a private invite only forum where the members sign a confidentiality agreement not to copy and paste info posted in the forum on the outside.  This friend tells of information that would solve the case and put Joran in jail for the rest of his life.  Do you tell others about this or do you honor the confidentiality agreement?

In the example above would a confidentiality agreement make any difference to you?  It would not to me.

So the FBI were informed, JQK was informed, Beth was informed according to Kermit. I don't see them going after Kyle...so why is Kermit here on SM going after Kyle and the crew of the Persistence?

Kermit informed Beth. Yes.
Kermit is NOT going after Kyle.
Kermit posted the truth to expose the Aruba cover-up

Kermit...come on. IF the Arubans walked away with Natalee...it was Kyle who exposed it not you.

I am pages behind so forgive me if this has been addressed.

LDS,

Are you freakin serious???!!!

[Tamikosmom]

Just a reminder for those who wanted to view it and missed it.  E! will be showing the News Special "The Final Hours of Natalee Holloway" again at midnight tonight my time which is Central.

Thanks texasmom.

I do not know if we can get it but ... I will check the guide.

Janet