Natalee Case Discussion #704 12/11 - 12/18/2007

[Tylergal]

The guilty always scream the loudest about how "There is no evidence against me... (or my client)".

Anna, the "wiretaps" the people down there are upset about, have nothing to do with JK2 (or at least didn't when they were first initiated). These are for a different purpose and from all indications, they must have picked up "chatter" related to the case as a corollary consequence. It is the very fact that the US was wiretapping in Aruba in the first place that has them upset with us.

I totally agree sb. I have thought this from very early in the case.

OK, and then what?  They had to realize that if we could hear this, we could hear lots of other things like their PM in his chats with his "other friend" Chavez and such.

But that still doesn't have any direct bearing on this investigation, or rather it shouldn't.

Remember the part about multi-jurisdictional from JQKelley?  I wonder what happened to all that?  Did Mos not have it or did he change his mind about sharing it?  He can still go to trial but I can't imagine having concrete information concerning how they know Natalee is no longer alive and not sharing with her parents.

Maybe they think the boycott is because we think Natalee is still alive and if they tell us or agree with us that she isn't, we will just go away.

Too hard to try to guesstimate their next move IF ANY.

.

This is just about the most bizarre thing going.  JQK mentions multijurisdictional, MOS has all the goods, Beth is called in for interrogation, Robin is bubbling with happiness as Dave meets with 2 Aruban screwballs, and everyone but Beth has given up on justice for Natalee.  Back in that twilight zone again.

[Nut44x4]

LegallyLex @ BFN

     Re: Search Group Back to Aruba to Search for Natalee
« Reply #246 on: Today at 10:20:11 AM »   

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Good morning everyone! The Persistence is on the move, the seas have died down to about 10 feet  (much better than the 18 they were having but still hairy).... That's all I can say right now! But there is strength in prayer! Please continue with your beautiful prayers!

Thanks again!

[friend of monkeys]

LegallyLex @ BFN

     Re: Search Group Back to Aruba to Search for Natalee
« Reply #246 on: Today at 10:20:11 AM »   

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Good morning everyone! The Persistence is on the move, the seas have died down to about 10 feet  (much better than the 18 they were having but still hairy).... That's all I can say right now! But there is strength in prayer! Please continue with your beautiful prayers!

Thanks again!

TY for the update NUT.

I think we are all exhausted trying to figure this out...picking apart statements and lies and alibies.

The one thing we need really is for Natalee to be found.

Prayers for Persistence.

[Helen Back]

I hate that Greta keeps dropping Natalee on the beach.  No one has ever made a statement that she was there, except the three pathological liars and their cohorts.

So we must back up.  The only thing we know is that Paulus and Joran scoped out the MB girls at the casino early in the evening.  Natalee went to C&C's where she was separated from her group, kidnapped by the three stooges, and never seen by anyone again.

We must discount all statements by suspects as they are allowed, even expected, to lie.

That pretty much leaves us with the gardener's statement, and the rest of the info that ALE and KLPD have but refuse to share such as cell phone info, wiretaps and recordings.  Other credible info comes from Beth, Dave, Art Wood, TJ Ward, and family and friends who were on the island to help.

The rest we can discard. 

Prayers for Persistence.

[Anna]

Multi-jurisdictional.  Could that mean pings from Sander's phone lead out in the water and stopped at a certain point?  Where is Metroguy?  Would phone records be able to find that if his phone really did fall overboard or something at a certain point?

Would this be a place to look?  Can cell phones continue to ping underwater for a period of time or do they short out immediately?

Just thinking out loud mostly. . . .

[friend of monkeys]

I still have faith.  I think they will find Natalee.

peace monkeys

[Nut44x4]

Multi-jurisdictional.  Could that mean pings from Sander's phone lead out in the water and stopped at a certain point?  Where is Metroguy?  Would phone records be able to find that if his phone really did fall overboard or something at a certain point?

Would this be a place to look?  Can cell phones continue to ping underwater for a period of time or do they short out immediately?

Just thinking out loud mostly. . . .

I was asking that the other day....going to do some searching to see if I can find out...doesn't seem like they could...underwater.

[Observer]

Multi-jurisdictional.  Could that mean pings from Sander's phone lead out in the water and stopped at a certain point?  Where is Metroguy?  Would phone records be able to find that if his phone really did fall overboard or something at a certain point?

Would this be a place to look?  Can cell phones continue to ping underwater for a period of time or do they short out immediately?

Just thinking out loud mostly. . . .

Water is a cell phones worst enemy and is soon as the water hits the electronics it will short out and turn off and will not ping. If he used the phone and made a call or a text message it would be traceable where the phone was at. Maybee he said his phone was stolen because he knew it was used when they disposed of NH in the ocean and authorities would be able to trace it if they looked into it. Either that or his phone was used by Natalee to get off those 2 calls that we are being told never happened. THe timing of his cell phone being stolen is very suspicious..IMO

[Helen Back]

I still have faith.  I think they will find Natalee.

peace monkeys

Me too, FOM.

[NYC_lover]

Multi-jurisdictional.  Could that mean pings from Sander's phone lead out in the water and stopped at a certain point?  Where is Metroguy?  Would phone records be able to find that if his phone really did fall overboard or something at a certain point?

Would this be a place to look?  Can cell phones continue to ping underwater for a period of time or do they short out immediately?

Just thinking out loud mostly. . . .

Anna - Cell phones don't work anymore when they falling overboard or come in contact with water. The phones goes directly out when there is any contact with water. My mother her cell phone was come in contact with water. And forget it, it was not more working, but I told her no problem, I want fix a new cell phone for you mommy.

[Anna]

But the phone would continue to ping right up until it hit the water, if in fact it did.  Can't they be tracked even if not in use by their pings? 

If not, all it would take would be one connection, accidental or not, and a record would be made of the approximate or even exact location.

Did Sander throw his cell phone in the landfill and this is what they were so afraid the searchers might find there?  Did it get in the fish trap by mistake?

Ah, just think about that.  Recovery of the fish trap with at least some remains, Joran's shoe or shoes and Sander's cell phone.  Well, I think the shoe story at least was total fabrication to frame Kalpoes but ya never know.

.

[Anna]

Any thoughts on what "scientific" evidence Joe T thought they had that he needed his "expert" to refute?  Or was it just a walk through with his fat friend to claim a complete forensic investigation as though believable.

[GabbyG]

I still have faith.  I think they will find Natalee.

peace monkeys

Me too, FOM.

Me three! I think they have a VERY good chance of finding Natalee. Dave was very UP about this search, and there is a reason for that.

Prayers for Persistence and crew, for safety AND success!

[Anna]

To answer my own question, here is a link to an article on pings and cell phones.  I have not yet read it but plan to do so tonight when things are quiet around here.

http://cellping.blogspot.com/2007/10/cell-phone-and-mobile-phone-pings-and.html

[Observer]

To answer my own question, here is a link to an article on pings and cell phones.  I have not yet read it but plan to do so tonight when things are quiet around here.

http://cellping.blogspot.com/2007/10/cell-phone-and-mobile-phone-pings-and.html

Most of that article is about GPS cell phones and I doubt anybody involved had one of those. It did mention this info on regular cell phones though but I would think the cellular company does not keep this information very long. We know with Carolyn(Clinton's Mom)That she was not able to retreave that information about Clintons phone because authorities didnt look into it soon enough.

All cell phones constantly broadcast a radio signal, even when not on a call. The cell phone companies have been able to estimate the location of a cell phone for many years using triangulation information from the towers receiving the signal.

[Observer]

Any thoughts on what "scientific" evidence Joe T thought they had that he needed his "expert" to refute?  Or was it just a walk through with his fat friend to claim a complete forensic investigation as though believable.

No Idea,But there must be something for the Van Der Sloots to hire this guy.

[dennisintn]

Any thoughts on what "scientific" evidence Joe T thought they had that he needed his "expert" to refute?  Or was it just a walk through with his fat friend to claim a complete forensic investigation as though believable.

i think joe's just trying to add to his "talking points".  his 'forensics expert' has all ready been on tv once with his "i've done this and i've done that, and there's no way jvds could have done anything bad to the little tourist girl cause she's not on the back porch or on the roadside anywhere i went". deal.  much ado about absolutely nothing.
dennisintn

[nuntukamen]

Any thoughts on what "scientific" evidence Joe T thought they had that he needed his "expert" to refute?  Or was it just a walk through with his fat friend to claim a complete forensic investigation as though believable.

i think the second half of your statement makes the point...joe t. is a conman mafia-creep who would have ten academy awards if they were given to attorneys

this one would have won for Best Special Effects

[Magnolia]

To answer my own question, here is a link to an article on pings and cell phones.  I have not yet read it but plan to do so tonight when things are quiet around here.

http://cellping.blogspot.com/2007/10/cell-phone-and-mobile-phone-pings-and.html

Miriam Ernest said that they pinged all the way back to Bill's lodgeing
(Marriott)  How'd he know that?
Most of that article is about GPS cell phones and I doubt anybody involved had one of those. It did mention this info on regular cell phones though but I would think the cellular company does not keep this information very long. We know with Carolyn(Clinton's Mom)That she was not able to retreave that information about Clintons phone because authorities didnt look into it soon enough.

All cell phones constantly broadcast a radio signal, even when not on a call. The cell phone companies have been able to estimate the location of a cell phone for many years using triangulation information from the towers receiving the signal.

[nuntukamen]

Any thoughts on what "scientific" evidence Joe T thought they had that he needed his "expert" to refute?  Or was it just a walk through with his fat friend to claim a complete forensic investigation as though believable.

No Idea,But there must be something for the Van Der Sloots to hire this guy.

remember, joe claims there is no fee, its all pro bono out of the goodness of his heart


and someone in chicago with mob connections and money


what no one has ascertained so far, or at least i haven't seen it referenced anywhere, is how many of the other 20 or so girls The Pimps raped were pickups at the hotel casino?  could explain alot if there were even a few