Lively Case Discussion #558 12/11 - 12/13/2006

[Florida]

Dkpen:  The link to Websleuth's re: the mysterious photo

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-38785

[bleachedblack]

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:44 pm
Not even a confession will help.

One witness is not a witness.

The body is needed.

This person being referred to here is a suspect but was treated as a witness, because they told something about the 3 others.  Freddy??? Guido??? The only one that was ever questioned pertaining to charges, "heavy battery" is Guido so my guess is Freddy.  We know he was questioned, but never as a suspect. Am I hallucinating also?

Isn't it possible that the one being refered to here is Steve Croes?

The reason that I say that is there was never a ring of truth to the story about him collaborating the HI drop off story, OR the one where he supposedly heard Deepak on the phone at the Internet Cafe.

Police commissioner Jan Van Der Straten said Croes' arrest came after he was named by one of the three suspects being held.

http://tinyurl.com/y7ujvw

[carpe noctem]

CARPE'S HOLLOWAY

CASE PHOTOS

their yours if you can use 'em

that's part of the reason

I'm collecting them!

Thanks Monkeys!
...................


PB PHOTO DUMPS

#1 - http://tinyurl.com/gut3h

#2 - http://tinyurl.com/nbjee

[Anna]

Deepak: An Out-Of-Synch LIE

From his 6/13 and 6/29 PV's, it's clear that deepak has the agreed to sequence of story telling out of sequence, and out of synch.  That aggressive interrogation following deepak's 6/29 PV reconstruction of his story re: the reasons to engage John Charles Croes in msn chat is testimony to the inept investigative procedures followed by ALE and prosecution authorities.

1.  The 6/13 PV

To your question as to who John Charles CROES is, where he lives and how often I have chatted to him on "MSN", I can say the following.  The afore mentioned John lives with his whole family in Miami. I have known him since school. We were together at the MAVO. On Monday Mai 30th 2005 I had chatted with John from about 02:40 to 03:30 hours. We didn't chat continually. From time to time I went and watched some TV. But I am sure that he was online during the time-frame I just mentioned above here.

Deepak introduces the identity of Croes as corroboration for his claim that he is home, and on his computer, during critical hours following Natalee's departure from C&C's in his vehicle.  Deepak says this to distance himself from the scene of joran and Natalee, to pull himself, and his brother, away from the frame.  IMO, the ONLY thing we can be sure of is that this msn exchange occurred between the parties identified, and at the times claimed -- what we can not be sure of, based on what I have read so far, is whether deepak is chatting from his home computer, or not.

2.  The 6/29 PV

You are telling me that John Charles CROES has stated that I wrote while I was chatting with him that I had written that the girl had put her hands in/down my pants, I can say the following. I did this to frustrate/mess up the investigation. I wanted to direct the focus of the police on myself and Joran because we were afraid that Satish would get the details wrong with regard to the "Holiday Inn" story. I was almost certain that our telephone conversations were being taped and I was certain that my computer was being monitored too.

This explanatory statement, referencing the 6/13 PV passage above, is a mess and should have provided polis interrogators a field day -- it is littered w/ inconsistencies, and directly implies "guilt":

a. It is clear that an intrepid ALE investigator actually took the time to contact Croes and gained some knowledge about the subject of discussion he had w/ deepak on 5/30/05 at 3:00am.  And the subject turns unsavory: we have deepak describing sexual activity to his remotely located friend.  This of course directly contradicts deepaks own earlier statements re: his "non-sexual" chauffeur-only encounter w/ Natalee.  A lie that could be exploited during interrogations.

b.  "I did this to frustrate/mess up the investigation"  Hhhmm.  Where shall we start w/ this one?  The obvious felony crimes of perjury and subjourning perjury are evident, and coupled with international aspect of msn, introduces the possibility for an Interpol level investigation.  But that's the easy part.  The good part is that deepak is claiming here that he "knows" that he needs to frustrate an investigation -- BEFORE THE INVESTIGATION EVER BEGAN AND BEFORE NATALEE IS MISSING.  In this statement, deepak should be relaying his intentions as they were on May 30, 2005 at 3:00am.  At that point in time, deepak (according to the beach drop off lie) has merely dropped a sober Natalee and joran off at the beach.  Then why at 3:00am on 5/30/05 is there a need to frustrate an investigation?

c.  "...Satish would get the details wrong with regard to the "Holiday Inn" story..."  Again, another out of sequence lie.  According to previous statements, the Holiday Inn drop off lie was concocted by joran and explained to deepak during their ride from Wyndham/Raddison to sloot house at approx 2:00am on May 31, 2005.  YET, here deepak is claiming that the HI drop off lie was active and in play at 3:00am on MAY 30, 2005 !?!?  How could deepak avoid being grilled over this obvious inconsistency?  This point, along w/ point b. (above), imply "guilt" -- not only is deepak screwing up the timelines and chronology, he is carrying falsehoods forward in time in attempts to explain previous actions.  And the reason to do this, is he more than likely knows what happened and even more likely was on the scene.  Think about it: deepak is saying that he over-described sexual activity to Croes, because he wants to keep his brother out of it -- there is NO LOGICAL connection between these statements; one does not follow the other ( except if Satish assaulted Natalee ).

d. "...I was almost certain that our telephone conversations were being taped..."  Another completely out of sequence statement.  How does chatting w/ Croes and talking of sexual activity somehow counter via false story telling the chances that polis are monitoring your chat?  This makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.

From these small snippets, and knowing that a few dozen statements exist w/ equally-glaring examples of inconsistency, out right falsehoods, and potential perjury and admissions of subjourning perjury, it's just indefensible for Aruban authorities to think they can close this case and simply walk away --

.

I am just bringing this forward to insure that more people see and read this.  BOLO for Joran also saying they had it planned to have a lot of chatter the night Natalee disappeared to establish alibis.  I do think he said that at one point.

Yes, Deepak's statements are a big mess as far as time line goes.

The most significant part to me is his saying he was doing all this with JCCRoes because they needed an alibi the very night Natalee disappeared.   He does blow inventing the HI story in a panic because Beth was  at the Sloot compound out of the water with these statements as well.

So why did they need an alibi and fabricate one the same night Natalee disappeared, not the next night but the very night they took her from C&C?  It's not as though Deepak would not have access to laptops at work, either.

Another part that interests me very much is his contact with John Charles Croes in the U.S. crossing international boundaries.  Perhaps this is some sort of grounds for Interpol to inject itself.  In any case, at this point, Deepak does at least send emails into this country as a means of providing false alibi to thwart an investigation of a possible murder of a U. S. citizen.

Is this not a crime in this country if not in Aruba where apparently there are no limits on much of anything?

Using phone lines to obfuscate?

Grasping at straws I know but will take anything.

I hope Jossy is right about deVries being committed to this investigation to the end of it.


.

[Tylergal]

If I am correct, I believe that the gardener was deemed a valid witness. Bondia/Renfro/Glenda tried very hard to refute that he was.

I've since wondered if the "witness" who was put on a psych unit was Boeti, for his drug addiction and inability to keep straight the lies he was to tell?

It may have happened to Boeti too but it was Junior, wasn't it, from the dump who was deemed in need of psychiatric care.  Shades of old Russia in that some how.  Oduber better watch it or he may find himself committed.  

Absolutely.  Have you noticed that over the weekend the mental institutions are burning in Russia, shades of Aruba!  

[memphis]

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys. Ten days, two down, eight to go.
The elder knows the passages in the palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might not be able to stop him.
Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fy away.

A palace would indicate to me a place that is higher up than just an ordinary house.  Maybe the location of a high political official that could make this all go away?

I know, I have lost most everyone by now, so I am leaving for a while...but never fear Shangohead will return.  

My thoughts:

A palace is where the rulers reside. So, maybe it's the legal system or government.

I was thinking that this referred to PVDS's legal meneuvering that has been alluded to many times by Simian; ie: "no body no crime" and "one witness is no witness".

[Shizaru]

John Charles Croes

From DK's 6/29 PV : "...You are telling me that John Charles CROES has stated that I wrote while I was chatting with him that I had written that the girl had put her hands in/down my pants, I can say the following. I did this to frustrate/mess up the investigation. I wanted to direct the focus of the police on myself and Joran because we were afraid that Satish would get the details wrong with regard to the "Holiday Inn" story. I was almost certain that our telephone conversations were being taped and I was certain that my computer was being monitored too..."

Does anyone recall WHEN deepak "chatted" with John Charles Croes?

My memory is this: John Charles Croes, on May 29 - 30, 2005 was in Florida.  When deepak "supposedly" returned home from post-C&C event w/ Natalee and jvds, he watched TV, and went into online chat.  Among those he cahtted w/ was this individual: JOHN CHARLES CROES.

What is significant, to me, about this claim by deepak is:  on the very nite Natalee goes missing -- at about 3:00 am on 5/30/05 -- deepak is already lying.  Which strngly suggests that by 3:00am or so, something bad already happened and, obviously, he's lying about it in chat form.

Does anyone hvae a different date/time/circumstance for the John Charles Croes chat session?  

TIA.

.

There were two chat sessions with Croes, one from 2-3 am Monday morning, the other on Tuesday night.  I believe the above refers to the one on Tuesday night.

[Tylergal]

John Charles Croes

From DK's 6/29 PV : "...You are telling me that John Charles CROES has stated that I wrote while I was chatting with him that I had written that the girl had put her hands in/down my pants, I can say the following. I did this to frustrate/mess up the investigation. I wanted to direct the focus of the police on myself and Joran because we were afraid that Satish would get the details wrong with regard to the "Holiday Inn" story. I was almost certain that our telephone conversations were being taped and I was certain that my computer was being monitored too..."

Does anyone recall WHEN deepak "chatted" with John Charles Croes?

My memory is this: John Charles Croes, on May 29 - 30, 2005 was in Florida.  When deepak "supposedly" returned home from post-C&C event w/ Natalee and jvds, he watched TV, and went into online chat.  Among those he cahtted w/ was this individual: JOHN CHARLES CROES.

What is significant, to me, about this claim by deepak is:  on the very nite Natalee goes missing -- at about 3:00 am on 5/30/05 -- deepak is already lying.  Which strngly suggests that by 3:00am or so, something bad already happened and, obviously, he's lying about it in chat form.

Does anyone hvae a different date/time/circumstance for the John Charles Croes chat session?  

TIA.

.

Exactly.

[Tylergal]

I finally had a chance to listen to last night's program and all I can say is WOW!  Jossy answered both of my questions.  Since the gardener is a credible witness, to this day, how does that relate to the timeline as to what time the Kalpoes actually arrived at home?  It does put them home later than they first admitted, right?  So Beth saying that PVDS first admitted to her that he picked Joran up at 4 AM would not be such an outrageous assumption now?

I still beieve the 4 a.m. story and believe that the third person in the car may/may not have been Satish.  Deepak is afraid Satish is going to muck up the lies.

Can we establish that it was one of the Ks and not both who were at home.  "One of the boys went.....the other stayed home...."

[Red]

Hey Carpe et al ...

Try posting on the front page again ...

[bleachedblack]

Seems that a few of the PIMPS were out celebrating the Holidays early in Aruba this past weekend......I might add SC looks as wasted as ever....

http://www.coolaruba.com/album/albums/DEC2006/CARLOS%208DEC/normal_ambiente.jpg

http://www.coolaruba.com/album/albums/DEC2006/CARLOS%208DEC/normal_ambiente_%2854%29.jpg

http://www.coolaruba.com/album/albums/DEC2006/MAMBO%208DEC/normal_Latinas_%2861%29.jpg

http://www.coolaruba.com/album/albums/DEC2006/DJ%20YEIMY%20MAMBO%20JAMBO%209DEC/normal_Dj_Yeimy_%284%29.jpg

http://www.coolaruba.com/album/albums/DEC2006/DJ%20YEIMY%20MAMBO%20JAMBO%209DEC/normal_Dj_Yeimy_%2867%29.jpg

http://www.coolaruba.com/album/albums/DEC2006/DJ%20YEIMY%20MAMBO%20JAMBO%209DEC/normal_Dj_Yeimy_%2868%29.jpg

[carpe noctem]

Hey Carpe et al ...

Try posting on the front page again ...

10-4,


off to the FP to do my thing.

[MsVada]

seeing a lot of "Jerry" with that bunch too.

[Peaches]

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys. Ten days, two down, eight to go.
The elder knows the passages in the palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might not be able to stop him.
Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fy away.

A palace would indicate to me a place that is higher up than just an ordinary house.  Maybe the location of a high political official that could make this all go away?

I know, I have lost most everyone by now, so I am leaving for a while...but never fear Shangohead will return.  

My thoughts:

A palace is where the rulers reside. So, maybe it's the legal system or government.

I was thinking that this referred to PVDS's legal meneuvering that has been alluded to many times by Simian; ie: "no body no crime" and "one witness is no witness".

So the palace could be the courthouse?  Those in a position to hose up this case would certainly know their way around.

[carpe noctem]

Hey Carpe et al ...

Try posting on the front page again ...

10-4,


off to the FP to do my thing.

Red,


Everything looks A-OK and fixed.



Like Joran's buddy 'KEES' would say...


THAK YOU, HOMEY!



 

TY

[2NJSons_Mom]

Hey Carpe et al ...

Try posting on the front page again ...

Just posted on the Nicole Ritchie story.  No problem, but as before, it did not go into an admin queue for review.  It showed up immediately.

[klaasend]

New Front Page Post:

From the Pages of the ALE Coloring Crime Book … Chapter 2: Aruban Suicide

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/12/12/from-the-pages-of-the-ale-coloring-crime-book-aruban-suicide/

Hello Red, sir ...

Hope all is well. Is the FP being tweaked today? I am running in to

all kinds od SPAM FILTERS and strange verification messages.

Just wondering. Advise?

Here's the exact verbiage from the error message, RED OR KLAAS


Sorry, but your comment has been flagged by the spam filter running on this blog: this might be an error, in which case all apologies. Your comment will be presented to the blog admin who will be able to restore it immediately.

You may want to contact the blog admin via e-mail to notify him.

Just got back from class.  I know TOM is working on the FP and the Spam Filter.  That may be what's causing the problem.

[carpe noctem]

Thanks Klaas... Red put in a word and fixed me up. TY FTI

[NM]

Hey Carpe,
You made the page borders go Sh-wing!!

[klaasend]

Thanks Klaas... Red put in a word and fixed me up. TY FTI

The moderation for the FP right now is messed up.  I just processes a couple of your posts but the moderation area isn't working right.