Natalee Case Discussion #829 2/14/10 - 2/25/10

[jen3560]

I wonder if Red has heard this about the male DNA and if he could add anything?  I don't know what to think as usual.

But that's what happens when the Aruban LE gets involved.  Things are forever muddled and no one knows whether to believe anything or not.  Blood to chocolate.  Chocloate to cleaning fluid.  Deepak's tape only sounding different after being sent to Aruba.  Just never know if it's true or a case of evidence tampering.

Great minds, Anna!!

Since the tape, I've doubted that much of anything was ever actually sent to the NFI.  And the few things that were, there was really nothing publicly mentioned about it (aside from the chocolate) 

[jen3560]

I wonder if Red has heard this about the male DNA and if he could add anything?  I don't know what to think as usual.

But that's what happens when the Aruban LE gets involved.  Things are forever muddled and no one knows whether to believe anything or not.  Blood to chocolate.  Chocloate to cleaning fluid.  Deepak's tape only sounding different after being sent to Aruba.  Just never know if it's true or a case of evidence tampering.

Anna - Red hasn't been online tonight that I can see but I'll have him listen.  Maybe he can get Tim on Dana Pretzer too.

Klaas, is there anything we can do to help facilitate this?

I'd like to have all of Kyle's pics and words in front of Tim before he goes on air again.

[jen3560]

I wonder if Red has heard this about the male DNA and if he could add anything?  I don't know what to think as usual.

But that's what happens when the Aruban LE gets involved.  Things are forever muddled and no one knows whether to believe anything or not.  Blood to chocolate.  Chocloate to cleaning fluid.  Deepak's tape only sounding different after being sent to Aruba.  Just never know if it's true or a case of evidence tampering.

I'm not believing the "male" DNA BS for one second.  In two years, no identification of that male....I don't think SO!  

And not ONE freaking WORD about it to the Aruban public either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  NOTHING!

If that was really a man/boy, surely Aruba would have publicized something so his family could have him identified and claimed?

[jen3560]

I can see a possibility of the witness being truthful, and CLW still being FOS.

IF the body was hidden at the pond until the next day, and then taken out to sea.

But CLW insisted that Natalee was STILL in the pond...all of her...and then parts of her; besides the other places he claimed she was... cemetery...cave.

The name of the witness does disturb me, and makes me doubt they're for real.

Lie detectors can be beaten.

And considering that CLW and the "witness" were thisclose.  

I'm inclined not to believe the witness.

JMO

I absolutely do NOT believe this witness.  Will get back shortly with some info to help here.......

[klaasend]

Have we heard yet as to where/when the funeral is?

Not for sure, no. 

[jen3560]

I can see a possibility of the witness being truthful, and CLW still being FOS.

IF the body was hidden at the pond until the next day, and then taken out to sea.

But CLW insisted that Natalee was STILL in the pond...all of her...and then parts of her; besides the other places he claimed she was... cemetery...cave.

The name of the witness does disturb me, and makes me doubt they're for real.

Lie detectors can be beaten.

And considering that CLW and the "witness" were thisclose.  

I'm inclined not to believe the witness.

JMO

Didn't the witness just say they saw Joran coming from the direction of the pond?  He could have been washing evidence off there or something.  I think it was CLW who claimed Natalee was in the pond along with all manner of other things like the Kalpoes family owning motel, wild things like that.

Isn't the witness statement only about seeing Joran and Paulus that night with no claim to know what they had been doing?

I think it's more of how the witness came to be for me.  Supposedly he had gone to the police but they wouldn't listen.  So he waits almost two years for the Persistence crew to go down there and hounds them until they listen to him?  I think if I were that witness and I'd already told ALE what I saw and they did nothing...I would be afraid of what might happen to me so I'd contact the FBI and at least tell my story in case I was found hanged (suicide of course) with my hands in my pockets.  But that's just me.

Like my friend the Church lady says it's just a little too convennnnient for me.   

Ya know what I mean?

The focus had to be removed from the ocean, and from the cage once it was found.  That's a given, especially now knowing Aruba's admission that there WAS a deceased human being in that damned cage.

Remember the blurbs we kept hearing and reading about the capabilities of persistence?  Can spot an item the size of a baseball, can see all on the ocean floor.

They were very, very, very afraid Persistence would find exactly what they did find - Natalee's remains on the ocean floor in that fish cage.

They needed something, anything to try and pry focus away from that.

And in the process they destroyed many things that could have gotten Natalee back to her family.

Shame on them.  Shame on those who blindly followed them.  Shame on those who damaged and destroyed all that was working toward bringing Natalee home.

I'm sorry Monkeys.  I'm just so upset.  I'm just as heartsick as I was when Kyle first brought this info to us.

We knew where she was.  We knew where Persistence would find her.  And find her they did.

Greed, power, fear and control prevented what should have been the resolution Beth and Dave have been so desperately seeking.

Natalee should have been brought home.

[jen3560]

Tim Miller explained the Germann witness in much more detail than I had heard before....the fact that he came to ALE early Jun 05 with his story....took a polygraph Sep 2, 2008, and Tim confirmed ALE heard from the witness in Jun 05....but that ALE discredited his story.....
But Tim did say the time line made sense, and that he believes joran/paulus could have hidden Natalee that early morning. The FH cage was broken into and paulus/joran could have disposed of Natalee the next night....Tim and Dave found the boat (Gotten...) that had been in the waters for 3 plus years...then immediately dry-docked after Natalee went missing...the family moved back to Holland (and I believe on to Atlanta)...
Natalee was most likely in the cage....mo

Ok, this is starting to make more sense.  Tim pretty much lays out what he thinks happened.  I'd like to see the pictures again of the witness' house in relation to the raquetball club.  If they stashed the body on the first night and Paulus picked Joran up, then went back the next night and took her out to sea in the crab trap - then the whole dropping Joran off at the racquetball club figures in somehow to recovering the body and getting it to the boat.  No?

Lifesong - have you read our In The Face of Evil series?  It lays out the whole next night of the disposal.

[klaasend]

FYI today in Aruba....

02/15/2010 Carnival Monday is a Holiday

[jen3560]

I can see a possibility of the witness being truthful, and CLW still being FOS.

IF the body was hidden at the pond until the next day, and then taken out to sea.

But CLW insisted that Natalee was STILL in the pond...all of her...and then parts of her; besides the other places he claimed she was... cemetery...cave.

The name of the witness does disturb me, and makes me doubt they're for real.

Lie detectors can be beaten.

And considering that CLW and the "witness" were thisclose.  

I'm inclined not to believe the witness.

JMO

I absolutely do NOT believe this witness.  Will get back shortly with some info to help here.......

Here's a real short and sweet one, posted by my little green friend:

Mark Purcell sent and email to CapsLockwizard to go to the Freebirds blog.
Kawish Misier also sends and email to Capslockwizard to the Freebirds blog.

Capslockwizard signs up at SM on the date of the first ROV dive.

Lorenzo Webb
Geerman
Caps
all live at the same address!

They are all involved in the

Orchestrated POND HOAX!

[Rob]

I can see a possibility of the witness being truthful, and CLW still being FOS.

IF the body was hidden at the pond until the next day, and then taken out to sea.

But CLW insisted that Natalee was STILL in the pond...all of her...and then parts of her; besides the other places he claimed she was... cemetery...cave.

The name of the witness does disturb me, and makes me doubt they're for real.

Lie detectors can be beaten.

And considering that CLW and the "witness" were thisclose.  

I'm inclined not to believe the witness.

JMO

Didn't the witness just say they saw Joran coming from the direction of the pond?  He could have been washing evidence off there or something.  I think it was CLW who claimed Natalee was in the pond along with all manner of other things like the Kalpoes family owning motel, wild things like that.

Isn't the witness statement only about seeing Joran and Paulus that night with no claim to know what they had been doing?

I think it's more of how the witness came to be for me.  Supposedly he had gone to the police but they wouldn't listen.  So he waits almost two years for the Persistence crew to go down there and hounds them until they listen to him?  I think if I were that witness and I'd already told ALE what I saw and they did nothing...I would be afraid of what might happen to me so I'd contact the FBI and at least tell my story in case I was found hanged (suicide of course) with my hands in my pockets.  But that's just me.

Like my friend the Church lady says it's just a little too convennnnient for me.   

Ya know what I mean?

The focus had to be removed from the ocean, and from the cage once it was found.  That's a given, especially now knowing Aruba's admission that there WAS a deceased human being in that damned cage.

Remember the blurbs we kept hearing and reading about the capabilities of persistence?  Can spot an item the size of a baseball, can see all on the ocean floor.

They were very, very, very afraid Persistence would find exactly what they did find - Natalee's remains on the ocean floor in that fish cage.

They needed something, anything to try and pry focus away from that.

And in the process they destroyed many things that could have gotten Natalee back to her family.

Shame on them.  Shame on those who blindly followed them.  Shame on those who damaged and destroyed all that was working toward bringing Natalee home.

I'm sorry Monkeys.  I'm just so upset.  I'm just as heartsick as I was when Kyle first brought this info to us.

We knew where she was.  We knew where Persistence would find her.  And find her they did.

Greed, power, fear and control prevented what should have been the resolution Beth and Dave have been so desperately seeking.

Natalee should have been brought home.

Great post Jen - pretty much nails it.

Regardless of our universal link as humans and our innate desire to know everything (curiosity is a part of being human) ... Natalee's truth deserved to be known because she was a member of society and a contributing member I should add. Her truth deserves to be known because she was a human being with God given inalienable rights.

[Blue Moon]

Good Morning all.

Did Aruba seriously think that they could swoop down on that cage, retrieve the contents of it in plain view, scurry off with the contents and think for one minute WE or someone would not question that?  If my memory serves me correctly Paulus and Anita were standing on shore watching the ship from the NL hovering over the cage.  WHY doesn't someone in our government question these actions and ask for an explanation?  I will never understand.

[texasmom]

I can see a possibility of the witness being truthful, and CLW still being FOS.

IF the body was hidden at the pond until the next day, and then taken out to sea.

But CLW insisted that Natalee was STILL in the pond...all of her...and then parts of her; besides the other places he claimed she was... cemetery...cave.

The name of the witness does disturb me, and makes me doubt they're for real.

Lie detectors can be beaten.

And considering that CLW and the "witness" were thisclose.  

I'm inclined not to believe the witness.

JMO

Didn't the witness just say they saw Joran coming from the direction of the pond?  He could have been washing evidence off there or something.  I think it was CLW who claimed Natalee was in the pond along with all manner of other things like the Kalpoes family owning motel, wild things like that.

Isn't the witness statement only about seeing Joran and Paulus that night with no claim to know what they had been doing?

I think it's more of how the witness came to be for me.  Supposedly he had gone to the police but they wouldn't listen.  So he waits almost two years for the Persistence crew to go down there and hounds them until they listen to him?  I think if I were that witness and I'd already told ALE what I saw and they did nothing...I would be afraid of what might happen to me so I'd contact the FBI and at least tell my story in case I was found hanged (suicide of course) with my hands in my pockets.  But that's just me.

Like my friend the Church lady says it's just a little too convennnnient for me.   

Ya know what I mean?

The focus had to be removed from the ocean, and from the cage once it was found.  That's a given, especially now knowing Aruba's admission that there WAS a deceased human being in that damned cage.

Remember the blurbs we kept hearing and reading about the capabilities of persistence?  Can spot an item the size of a baseball, can see all on the ocean floor.

They were very, very, very afraid Persistence would find exactly what they did find - Natalee's remains on the ocean floor in that fish cage.

They needed something, anything to try and pry focus away from that.

And in the process they destroyed many things that could have gotten Natalee back to her family.

Shame on them.  Shame on those who blindly followed them.  Shame on those who damaged and destroyed all that was working toward bringing Natalee home.

I'm sorry Monkeys.  I'm just so upset.  I'm just as heartsick as I was when Kyle first brought this info to us.

We knew where she was.  We knew where Persistence would find her.  And find her they did.

Greed, power, fear and control prevented what should have been the resolution Beth and Dave have been so desperately seeking.

Natalee should have been brought home.

Great post Jen - pretty much nails it.

Regardless of our universal link as humans and our innate desire to know everything (curiosity is a part of being human) ... Natalee's truth deserved to be known because she was a member of society and a contributing member I should add. Her truth deserves to be known because she was a human being with God given inalienable rights.

Good Morning all!

I agree with you both, and I'm mad as hell all over again!

[texasmom]

I posted this over in the special prayer thread too, but wanted to make sure everyone here saw it.

I hope Tim and Georgeann know that we're all thinking of them and keeping them in our prayers.   

http://www.39online.com/news/local/kiah-miller-wife-cancer-story,0,5227175.story

(I didn't know how to bring the video over and didn't know how long it would be available on the website, so I uploaded it to photobucket. Click on the picture to see the video.)



Founder of Texas Eqqusearch Takes Leave
Tim Miller Focusing on Wife's Health
Steve SimonKIAH

Walk into the office of Texas Eqqusearch in Dickinson and you'll see years of work. There are awards for a job well done, pictures of famous faces and faces of the victims Eqqusearch has looked for. But if you look in an office down the hall, there is something you won't see: Tim Miller has taken a leave for the first time.

"My heart is definitely here everybody knows that," Miller said.

Miller said it started with a pain in his wife Georgeann's shoulder, it ended with a diagnosis. Now, the man who has searched for so many victims searches for the best way to care for his wife's bone cancer.

"You know the last week-and-a-half has been one of the longest periods in my life, especially since Laura was missing," Miller said.

Laura was Tim's 16-year-old daughter. Her abduction and murder in 1984 prompted Miller to form Texas Eqqusearch. Since 2000, there have been 1126 searches for missing children and adults, many of them murder victims. There have been high-profile cases like Natalie Holloway in Aruba, Caylee Anthony in Orlando and here at home, "Tiki" Buggs in Fort Bend County. A heart attack didn't stop Miller from that search, but now his focus is Georgann's case.

Sherry McKinney is the office administrator. When the calls come in now the response is different.

"We're doing it by committee, 3 people are deciding the searches, the calls are not going to Tim," McKinney said.

"It's been emotional for everyone involved."

Miller said he has been getting calls and messages from police all over the country: "Let us be there for you" seems to be a common theme.

 

[jen3560]

Great post Jen - pretty much nails it.

Regardless of our universal link as humans and our innate desire to know everything (curiosity is a part of being human) ... Natalee's truth deserved to be known because she was a member of society and a contributing member I should add. Her truth deserves to be known because she was a human being with God given inalienable rights.

She truly was, and it's just so utterly heart breaking to just plain flat KNOW all that conspired against her truth being known - and her family being able to have their loved one back.

It is NOT over..........

[jen3560]

Good Morning all.

Did Aruba seriously think that they could swoop down on that cage, retrieve the contents of it in plain view, scurry off with the contents and think for one minute WE or someone would not question that?  If my memory serves me correctly Paulus and Anita were standing on shore watching the ship from the NL hovering over the cage.  WHY doesn't someone in our government question these actions and ask for an explanation?  I will never understand.

Blue Moon - Yes, Paulus and Anita were on the beach.  I believe it was either Jan 6 or 7.  It was either the day before, or the day of the Aruban retrieval dive on that cage.

[jen3560]

Thank you TxMom for that article and video.

Tim and his wife don't deserve this.  I am so glad to see so many are giving their support.

Tim has done so much for so many desperate families.  It's now he and Georganne's turn to be on the other end of the help and support.

[texasmom]

Good Morning all.

Did Aruba seriously think that they could swoop down on that cage, retrieve the contents of it in plain view, scurry off with the contents and think for one minute WE or someone would not question that?  If my memory serves me correctly Paulus and Anita were standing on shore watching the ship from the NL hovering over the cage.  WHY doesn't someone in our government question these actions and ask for an explanation?  I will never understand.

Good morning Blue Moon!

I know how you feel, I will never understand the audacity either!   

[MuffyBee]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=7060.msg1070189#new

 Tim & Georgeann Miller - Prayers Needed
This thread is in the Monkey Lounge

[crazybabyborg]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=7060.msg1070189#new

 Tim & Georgeann Miller - Prayers Needed
This thread is in the Monkey Lounge

Thanks, Muffy! Sending Prayers!

[klaasend]

Another doc filed that reiterates what has been filed/posted earlier: