SANDRA CANTU, 8, missing since 3/27/09 Tracy, CA #1 3/28/09-4/09/09

[Blink34]

Where i Blink?  Didn't she say she got an email from a weekend searcher with a COMMENT about the pond..was the church also part of that comment?

No darlin Gypsy. Just the Pond in relation to the area. The church was not subject to the checkpoint as was the Mobile Home Park
B

[no rose colored glasses]

Let's not forget that they towed away vehicles belonging to other persons. They must have had probable cause there too.
Sixty people in that small community involved with kiddy porn. When they were conducting the search for Sandra looking at where she went and whose house she went to they discover that ?

Maybe all these people somehow involved with child porn. And also the home in Oakdale who is related to Sinclair, and then another home in Tracy, that no details were given about. Maybe the pastor's sons or grandsons involved, at this point who knows?

[Kat_Gram]

We don't know that his church is floundering.
There could have been some junk in the suitcase that tied it to Lawless or the church.
He could have been working with a troubled soul ???
What was going on at the church that night to make an eight year old go there ?
.....
Because this man is a man of cloth and has kept his nose clean maybe it just an association. 

[no rose colored glasses]

The pastor and his wife could sure be innocent, just odd that after opening the suitcase that little Sandra was found in, LE went with a search warrant to his mobile home, and odder that they went to his church, and put crime tape up, and are or about to search the church. There must be something.

I agree, there is something to it.  Either the pastor, someone related to the pastor, or someone they associate with likely are responsible.

Let's all remember, if someone is willing to agree to let you search and take potential evidence, you DONT NEED A WARRANT. They can consent. There is something applicable to the plain sight rule that necessitated this, period.

 I have been hesitant to say this, but it is next to impossible to get a search warrant for a church without a dead body laying right on the grounds or in the vestibule.
I dont mean to be glib, but seriously, it is considered sacrisant and judges are very against granting them without a proponderance of probable cause.

This smells to me like Grand jury issue

I never knew that about a search warrant for a church. Could the pastor have not given his permission to search his church? If that is right, then I question why didn't he?

[no rose colored glasses]

We don't know that his church is floundering.
There could have been some junk in the suitcase that tied it to Lawless or the church.
He could have been working with a troubled soul ???
What was going on at the church that night to make an eight year old go there ?
.....
Because this man is a man of cloth and has kept his nose clean maybe it just an association. 

That could be, but what I found interesting reading today is that the church hardly ever has cars in the parking lot, maybe people walk to the church, I don't know. I was shocked when I saw pictures of the church, didn't look like any church I've seen before, but again that doesn't mean anything.

[klaasend]

BLOCKED WEBSITE

[Gypsy DD]

Where i Blink?  Didn't she say she got an email from a weekend searcher with a COMMENT about the pond..was the church also part of that comment?

No darlin Gypsy. Just the Pond in relation to the area. The church was not subject to the checkpoint as was the Mobile Home Park
B

So did we know if they have a warrant for the church or if the pastor just gave them the okay to search there?

[Cappuccino]

No word on another presser regarding the autopsy yet?

[A's Fever]

It seems unusual to me, though certainly not impossible, that this  man who has a clean history would start his criminal life with such a brutal, brazen crime.  Often these types of perps engage in progressively worse crimes over time.  So far, at least, there has not been anything uncovered in the pastor's past nor any whispers from the community about this guy, at least that I have seen.  One of the comments on the church website though  did cast suspicion on a grandson, I believe.

[Kat_Gram]

It was LE who said the warrants were sealed. Some guy on hte 90 seconds NG allotted to this as she had to get up my nose with the same old same old Casey Tot Mom routine.
I don't know about getting search warrants for churches.
Up here, we still have some archaic laws where LE can't go in and get them.
Sometimes our churches take in refugees who are about to be deported and LE can't go in and get them. 

[leslee]

We don't know that his church is floundering.
There could have been some junk in the suitcase that tied it to Lawless or the church.
He could have been working with a troubled soul ???
What was going on at the church that night to make an eight year old go there ?
.....
Because this man is a man of cloth and has kept his nose clean maybe it just an association. 

That could be, but what I found interesting reading today is that the church hardly ever has cars in the parking lot, maybe people walk to the church, I don't know. I was shocked when I saw pictures of the church, didn't look like any church I've seen before, but again that doesn't mean anything.

Yes NRCG I saw the article about little church activity. If you check out the guest book on his site there was little there as well...until today of course. I am thinking sandra may have been approached by someone associated with the church who asked her for her help with something...someone who had a key, maybe someone she knew from the visiting the Pastors house.

[Gypsy DD]

I just read the articles again and it does say a search warrant was issued for the church and the church property.  So they have a very strong hunch or tip that ties this crime to that location..warrants are issued for evidence.  Lord I hope no one did this to this child in the church................

[klaasend]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/07/BA8016UFO2.DTL&tsp=1

(snipped)

Sandra's family does not attend Clover Road Baptist Church, neighbors said. The church's Web site said Lawless has headed the church since 1981 and has three grown children and nine grandchildren.

[no rose colored glasses]

It seems unusual to me, though certainly not impossible, that this  man who has a clean history would start his criminal life with such a brutal, brazen crime.  Often these types of perps engage in progressively worse crimes over time.  So far, at least, there has not been anything uncovered in the pastor's past nor any whispers from the community about this guy, at least that I have seen.  One of the comments on the church website though  did cast suspicion on a grandson, I believe.

Yes, I did see that and I'm questioning perhaps a son or grandson of the pastor.  I suppose what I'm going to say is naive on my part, but since the pastor is up there in age 77, that in itself is troubling to think he had something to do with this, but I guess he certainly could, or maybe he has a good idea who may have.

[leslee]

The pastor and his wife could sure be innocent, just odd that after opening the suitcase that little Sandra was found in, LE went with a search warrant to his mobile home, and odder that they went to his church, and put crime tape up, and are or about to search the church. There must be something.

I agree, there is something to it.  Either the pastor, someone related to the pastor, or someone they associate with likely are responsible.

Let's all remember, if someone is willing to agree to let you search and take potential evidence, you DONT NEED A WARRANT. They can consent. There is something applicable to the plain sight rule that necessitated this, period.

 I have been hesitant to say this, but it is next to impossible to get a search warrant for a church without a dead body laying right on the grounds or in the vestibule.
I dont mean to be glib, but seriously, it is considered sacrisant and judges are very against granting them without a proponderance of probable cause.

This smells to me like Grand jury issue

I never knew that about a search warrant for a church. Could the pastor have not given his permission to search his church? If that is right, then I question why didn't he?

Neither did I this is what CNN says:
 "We are heading in a direction," Tracy police Sgt. Tony Sheneman told reporters. "To comment on that would compromise the investigation, and I can't do that."

A search warrant was executed at the Tracy mobile home park where the girl lived, and a related search was to be conducted Tuesday at a nearby church, he said.

He implied more than one person may have been involved in the death of Sandra, who had been missing since March 27.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/07/california.missing.girl.dead/?imw=Y&iref=mpstoryemail

I don't see search warrant at the church I am betting the Pastor granted them permission.

[A's Fever]

It seems unusual to me, though certainly not impossible, that this  man who has a clean history would start his criminal life with such a brutal, brazen crime.  Often these types of perps engage in progressively worse crimes over time.  So far, at least, there has not been anything uncovered in the pastor's past nor any whispers from the community about this guy, at least that I have seen.  One of the comments on the church website though  did cast suspicion on a grandson, I believe.

Yes, I did see that and I'm questioning perhaps a son or grandson of the pastor.  I suppose what I'm going to say is naive on my part, but since the pastor is up there in age 77, that in itself is troubling to think he had something to do with this, but I guess he certainly could, or maybe he has a good idea who may have.

Very good point about the Pastor's age.  I also think it is odd, very odd, that the body is described as fully clothed.  For if not a sex crime, what would the motive be against a child so young?  I am thinking that LE is very carefully controlling the info that is put out there and that maybe we don't have the whole story.

[no rose colored glasses]

We don't know that his church is floundering.
There could have been some junk in the suitcase that tied it to Lawless or the church.
He could have been working with a troubled soul ???
What was going on at the church that night to make an eight year old go there ?
.....
Because this man is a man of cloth and has kept his nose clean maybe it just an association. 

That could be, but what I found interesting reading today is that the church hardly ever has cars in the parking lot, maybe people walk to the church, I don't know. I was shocked when I saw pictures of the church, didn't look like any church I've seen before, but again that doesn't mean anything.

Yes NRCG I saw the article about little church activity. If you check out the guest book on his site there was little there as well...until today of course. I am thinking sandra may have been approached by someone associated with the church who asked her for her help with something...someone who had a key, maybe someone she knew from the visiting the Pastors house.

Could very well be. That's why I was wondering the pastor has two sons and a daughter, and grandchildren, but don't know how many grandchildren, or their ages.

[leslee]

I just read the articles again and it does say a search warrant was issued for the church and the church property.  So they have a very strong hunch or tip that ties this crime to that location..warrants are issued for evidence.  Lord I hope no one did this to this child in the church................

Do you have a link? I just posted a CNN article and it did not say that 

[no rose colored glasses]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/07/BA8016UFO2.DTL&tsp=1

(snipped)

Sandra's family does not attend Clover Road Baptist Church, neighbors said. The church's Web site said Lawless has headed the church since 1981 and has three grown children and nine grandchildren.

Thanks, and I just asked about how many grandchildren, and I see nine, wonder their ages?

[Blink34]

The pastor and his wife could sure be innocent, just odd that after opening the suitcase that little Sandra was found in, LE went with a search warrant to his mobile home, and odder that they went to his church, and put crime tape up, and are or about to search the church. There must be something.

NoRose, I cant be sure because the warrants are sealed, but we know Le went to the home first so he would have had the opportunity to consent if they offered it. Because of the timing, I am going to assume they had both warrants "in hand" when they served on his home. Mrs. Lawless's comments trouble me greatly.
I agree, there is something to it.  Either the pastor, someone related to the pastor, or someone they associate with likely are responsible.

Let's all remember, if someone is willing to agree to let you search and take potential evidence, you DONT NEED A WARRANT. They can consent. There is something applicable to the plain sight rule that necessitated this, period.

 I have been hesitant to say this, but it is next to impossible to get a search warrant for a church without a dead body laying right on the grounds or in the vestibule.
I dont mean to be glib, but seriously, it is considered sacrisant and judges are very against granting them without a proponderance of probable cause.

This smells to me like Grand jury issue

I never knew that about a search warrant for a church. Could the pastor have not given his permission to search his church? If that is right, then I question why didn't he?